The Lie of the Prosperity Gospel

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
0
#81
Keeping in mind of course that Context is not the only factor involved....What does the Holy Spirit say to you?
Whatever Jesus says to us through the Holy Spirit.

John 16:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.[SUP]14 [/SUP]He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.[SUP] 15 [/SUP]All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

John 14:[SUP]26 [/SUP]But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

A believer cannot be content when they desire to be rich. A house divided cannot stand.
 
May 13, 2017
2,359
27
0
#82
Jesus while owning nothing owned it all.....and when it comes to men....perception is reality.......!
I do think its funny how Christians preach that Jesus was poor. He was not.
 
May 13, 2017
2,359
27
0
#83
Context! It is just so missing in Word Faith posts.

I saw 3 John 2 posted twice in the last two pages as a proof text that we "must prosper."

So, context is what do the surrounding verses say, the book, the geography/history etc as applicable?


"1 The elder to the beloved Gaius, whom I love in truth.2 Beloved, I pray that all may go well with you and that you may be in good health, as it goes well with your soul. 3 For I rejoiced greatly when the brothers came and testified to your truth, as indeed you are walking in the truth.4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children are walking in the truth." 1 John 1-3

Now, verse 2 is part of a paragraph in which verse 1, 3 & 4 appear. And they are part of the salutation. In Greek culture, there was a certain format to write a formal letter, or epistle, and this was part of it. (Although sometimes not all of it was adhered to, in this case, it was!) And please be aware, this is at the beginning of 3 John, it cannot be anything else but a salutation!!

A Greek salutation contains the following:

1. The person to whom it is sent. In this case, Gaius, a personal letter. Whom John also loves in a Christian sense!
2. Greetings and wishes for health and the hope things are going well.
3. Usually something complimentary. Only the book of Galatians leaves this out, because Paul has nothing good to say to the Judiazers who are wrecking the church there. In this case, verses 3-4 describes the good word John got back about Gaius, and how it gave John great joy to hear this word!

So, verse 1 is addressed to Gaius, and so are verses 3 and 4. Verse 2 must therefore also be addressed to Gaius, not to Word of Faith adherents in our day and age. But, it would make a nice greeting for anyone to receive. Nothing wrong with that. But not a promise of health and wealth, for sure!

So, having established this salutation follows the traditional Greek letter format, what can we say about verse 2?

Certainly, John is not commanding that our souls MUST prosper and we MUST command good health. Certainly not money, In fact, the word "prosper" doesn't really even refer to money.

"Ἀγαπητέ, περὶ πάντων εὔχομαί σε εὐοδοῦσθαι καὶ ὑγιαίνειν, καθὼς εὐοδοῦταί σου ἡ ψυχή." 3 John 2.

εὐοδοῦσθαι (eudousthai) - Present Passive Infinitive from εὐοδόω (euodoo) - meaning- in the passive - to be lead along a good road, to get along well, to prosper or succeed. In other word, it is a hopeful wish, that all will be good for this person.

If you want to get very literal, the word σε or se, is the second person singular and therefore addressed to one person only - Gaius. It does not say, "I wish YOU ALL will be prosperous" or worse "You ALL can command your life to be prosperous, with health, and wealth forever." In fact, this was a common but personal greeting to the person Gaius. It was not addressed to the church in the 20th and 21st centuries, nor even a specific church in the NT. It was addressed to a single individual, that John was commending about what he had heard about him.

εὔχομαί or euchomai, further, a present, active indicative, lands more on the side of "wish" rather than prayer. The renowned lexicon, Bauer, (BDAG) puts 3 John 2 in the "wish" column. Not a prayer to God at all. Just a hopeful wish, John had for this servant of God, named Gaius. So a wish for a good life - body and soul.

The Linguistic and Exegetical Key to the Greek New Testament by Cleon Rogers Jr. and Cleon Rogers III say on page 602:
"This was a common greeting and desire expressed in letters for the recipient to be in good health. (with 6 references) and then RAC for further information about the general concept of health and well being in the ancient world."

I would most appreciate it, if this verse was no longer used as a proof text for the Word Faith heresy. Of course, Denalii has me on ignore. Perhaps this could be "reply with quote" for him to see?

PS. I can take apart each one of the verses that Denalii and others are using as proof texts in this manner. It is easy for me, being able to read Greek. But of course, anyone who reads the Bible in context, in any translation can also figure this out, easily enough. In this case, the Greek is OBVIOUSLY NOT saying that this can ever be a proof text for Word Faith. So, kindly stop pulling it out of context! It simply is not a talisman to recite, and then you will get everything you want, that being the foundation of the entire Word Faith heresy!
Denalii has me on ignore. Perhaps this could be "reply with quote" for him to see? Don't be sneaky Angela. Sneaky only makes people think you like to cheat. The fact is....I took everybody off of 'ignore' because I don't like 'ignore'. I even took you off.....
 
May 13, 2017
2,359
27
0
#84
This last week the Southwestern Believers Convention of Kenneth Copeland ministries closed. Over the week almost three thousand gave their hearts to Jesus. How many people were saved through your crackers and cheese teaching this week?
 
P

Persuaded

Guest
#85
This last week the Southwestern Believers Convention of Kenneth Copeland ministries closed. Over the week almost three thousand gave their hearts to Jesus. How many people were saved through your crackers and cheese teaching this week?
Well I guess with a net worth of $10 million, I guess he can retire.
Based on his false teaching, I am concerned about those 3000.
 
May 13, 2017
2,359
27
0
#86
Well I guess with a net worth of $10 million, I guess he can retire.
Based on his false teaching, I am concerned about those 3000.
3000 souls into the kingdom and you worry about them...I worry about you my friend. Big time
And his net worth is not your business.

My point is though. These people get many souls saved. What about your ...uh...churches?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,420
12,905
113
#87
I do think its funny how Christians preach that Jesus was poor. He was not.
Since Jesus said that the Son of Man (meaning Himself) did not even have a place to lay His head, He clearly did not own a home. Also when Peter needed to pay the temple tax, Jesus did not have any cash on Him, so He sent Peter to go find a fish which had that money in its mouth.

As to the net worth and lavish lifestyles of the WOF preachers, they are absolutely the concern of all Christians. Gullible and poor Christians are being manipulated int giving their cash over to these people, and that is a sin of the first order. On top of that, they preach a FALSE GOSPEL and deny Bible truth. The apostles have some harsh words for them in Scripture.
 
May 13, 2017
2,359
27
0
#88
Since Jesus said that the Son of Man (meaning Himself) did not even have a place to lay His head, He clearly did not own a home. Also when Peter needed to pay the temple tax, Jesus did not have any cash on Him, so He sent Peter to go find a fish which had that money in its mouth.

As to the net worth and lavish lifestyles of the WOF preachers, they are absolutely the concern of all Christians. Gullible and poor Christians are being manipulated int giving their cash over to these people, and that is a sin of the first order. On top of that, they preach a FALSE GOSPEL and deny Bible truth. The apostles have some harsh words for them in Scripture.
Isn't this wonderful. You have the right to believe God or the devil. You get to choose. But you will also answer for your choices.
 
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
0
#89
This last week the Southwestern Believers Convention of Kenneth Copeland ministries closed. Over the week almost three thousand gave their hearts to Jesus. How many people were saved through your crackers and cheese teaching this week?
If Kenneth Copeland gives an altar call for believers to make a commitment to follow Christ or a commitment to Christ, then he just led them in a bondage to His teachings and not to rest in Jesus, Himself, that they are saved by simply believing in Him.

On the internet, there is an awful lot of talk about Copeland's commitments which are promises towards Christ & the believers. That is a testament to Kenneth Copeland of his work in serving the Lord; that is towards His glory; that is not a testament of his faith in Jesus Christ as His Good Shepherd in leaning on Him to minister to others; indeed, it speaks against that faith in Him when he is resorting to his own power in serving Him. So it is a double-minded altar call.

Are they saved? Yes, but no sooner than they are saved, they are laboring in vain, finishing by the flesh what was begun with the Spirit.

The altar call to make a commitment to Christ or a commitment to follow Christ as a means of salvation is why many believers doubt their salvation by their failure in keeping that commitment for by that commitment is the knowledge of sin.

That is why some believers are honest with themselves and quit because no matter how zealous they are, they can't do it.

That is why some sinners are turned away from Him when they do not see it in their sinful nature to make a commitment to Christ in coming to Him for salvation, especially when in bondage to sin & to death, getting worse & worse, they cannot fathom any religious will power to follow Him when their sins mess them up daily.

By the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ as our Saviour we are saved, and so by the grace of God by faith in Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd is the only way we can follow Him. That is why little children are free to come to Him because all they can do is take Him at His word; to trust Him; to believe in Him, and that is how we are saved and that is how we are to follow Him as well since it is written that the just shall live by faith.

So you may be disheartened to see many popular preachers are leading many astray religiously; even Billy Graham and now, his son, Franklin Graham for they are giving the same altar call "If you are not sure you are saved... come forward and make a commitment to follow Christ..."... but those are the signs of the times.

Luke 6:[SUP]26 [/SUP]Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

When we are nothing, but God gives the increase, then that is why these men are credited because they led them to make promises/commitments to Christ. They led them by their zeal for God in religious bondage. They may try to deflect the credit all they want, but they can't. Many will say.. look at what they did... because they led them to make commitments.

Do we read that in the Bible? How about the Book of Acts? No. They preached the word, they believe, and they had received the Holy Ghost. There is no call to make a commitment nor a promise to Christ when they are to rest in Him not just for salvation, but for following Him since we cannot save ourselves, then neither can we follow Him except by faith.

Luke 9:[SUP]23 [/SUP]And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

John 7:[SUP]18 [/SUP]He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

Galatians 2:[SUP]17 [/SUP]But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. [SUP]20 [/SUP]I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. [SUP]21 [/SUP]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians 3:1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?[SUP] 2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?[SUP] 3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?[SUP]4 [/SUP]Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.............[SUP]13 [/SUP]Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:[SUP] 14 [/SUP]That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.....[SUP]26 [/SUP]For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. [SUP]27 [/SUP]For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. [SUP]28 [/SUP]There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. [SUP]29 [/SUP]And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
....[SUP]5 [/SUP]For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Kenneth Copeland is preaching the Prosperity Gospel, but you should know what else he is preaching. This link will address his errors in regards to the prosperity gospel, but there are links to other errors by Kenneth Copeland, however, I have not reviewed them all, but I do find a believer's commitment is a heretical practice of Kenneth Copeland. That is enough to say you should discern everything by Him at that throne of grace, because we are living in the latter days where faith is hard to find which is why God is judging His House first at the pre trib rapture event to restore the wayward that are left behind to the path of righteousness for His name's sake.

False Teachings of Word of Faith Teacher - Kenneth Copeland
 
May 13, 2017
2,359
27
0
#90
If Kenneth Copeland gives an altar call for believers to make a commitment to follow Christ or a commitment to Christ, then he just led them in a bondage to His teachings and not to rest in Jesus, Himself, that they are saved by simply believing in Him.

On the internet, there is an awful lot of talk about Copeland's commitments which are promises towards Christ & the believers. That is a testament to Kenneth Copeland of his work in serving the Lord; that is towards His glory; that is not a testament of his faith in Jesus Christ as His Good Shepherd in leaning on Him to minister to others; indeed, it speaks against that faith in Him when he is resorting to his own power in serving Him. So it is a double-minded altar call.

Are they saved? Yes, but no sooner than they are saved, they are laboring in vain, finishing by the flesh what was begun with the Spirit.

The altar call to make a commitment to Christ or a commitment to follow Christ as a means of salvation is why many believers doubt their salvation by their failure in keeping that commitment for by that commitment is the knowledge of sin.

That is why some believers are honest with themselves and quit because no matter how zealous they are, they can't do it.

That is why some sinners are turned away from Him when they do not see it in their sinful nature to make a commitment to Christ in coming to Him for salvation, especially when in bondage to sin & to death, getting worse & worse, they cannot fathom any religious will power to follow Him when their sins mess them up daily.

By the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ as our Saviour we are saved, and so by the grace of God by faith in Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd is the only way we can follow Him. That is why little children are free to come to Him because all they can do is take Him at His word; to trust Him; to believe in Him, and that is how we are saved and that is how we are to follow Him as well since it is written that the just shall live by faith.

So you may be disheartened to see many popular preachers are leading many astray religiously; even Billy Graham and now, his son, Franklin Graham for they are giving the same altar call "If you are not sure you are saved... come forward and make a commitment to follow Christ..."... but those are the signs of the times.

Luke 6:[SUP]26 [/SUP]Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

When we are nothing, but God gives the increase, then that is why these men are credited because they led them to make promises/commitments to Christ. They led them by their zeal for God in religious bondage. They may try to deflect the credit all they want, but they can't. Many will say.. look at what they did... because they led them to make commitments.

Do we read that in the Bible? How about the Book of Acts? No. They preached the word, they believe, and they had received the Holy Ghost. There is no call to make a commitment nor a promise to Christ when they are to rest in Him not just for salvation, but for following Him since we cannot save ourselves, then neither can we follow Him except by faith.

Luke 9:[SUP]23 [/SUP]And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

John 7:[SUP]18 [/SUP]He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

Galatians 2:[SUP]17 [/SUP]But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. [SUP]20 [/SUP]I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. [SUP]21 [/SUP]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians 3:1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?[SUP] 2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?[SUP] 3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?[SUP]4 [/SUP]Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.............[SUP]13 [/SUP]Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:[SUP] 14 [/SUP]That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.....[SUP]26 [/SUP]For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. [SUP]27 [/SUP]For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. [SUP]28 [/SUP]There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. [SUP]29 [/SUP]And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
....[SUP]5 [/SUP]For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Kenneth Copeland is preaching the Prosperity Gospel, but you should know what else he is preaching. This link will address his errors in regards to the prosperity gospel, but there are links to other errors by Kenneth Copeland, however, I have not reviewed them all, but I do find a believer's commitment is a heretical practice of Kenneth Copeland. That is enough to say you should discern everything by Him at that throne of grace, because we are living in the latter days where faith is hard to find which is why God is judging His House first at the pre trib rapture event to restore the wayward that are left behind to the path of righteousness for His name's sake.

False Teachings of Word of Faith Teacher - Kenneth Copeland
Not worth answering
 
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
#91
Just think: Allegedly Copeland led 3000 people to Christ, the same Christ that Copeland calls the biggest failure of all time.

Thanks God his ministry closed, may God save all the deceived out of his clutches.
 
May 13, 2017
2,359
27
0
#92
Just think: Allegedly Copeland led 3000 people to Christ, the same Christ that Copeland calls the biggest failure of all time.

Thanks God his ministry closed, may God save all the deceived out of his clutches.
And just think....The so called ministry you are associated with probably has not led anywhere that number of people to the Lord in all its history....Those people are saved because Copeland is willing to share the Word. Why has your ministry not done the same numbers? I would rather be associated with a ministry that gets people into the Kingdom than one that does not. wouldn't you? Apparently not.

I mentioned that 3000 people accepted Jesus there. That does not count the numbers that were healed! What does your ministry do? Criticize! And nobody gets healed or saved. But that's a Christian ministry......Isn't it?
 
Last edited:
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
0
#93
And just think....The so called ministry you are associated with probably has not led anywhere that number of people to the Lord in all its history....Those people are saved because Copeland is willing to share the Word. Why has your ministry not done the same numbers? I would rather be associated with a ministry that gets people into the Kingdom than one that does not. wouldn't you? Apparently not.
If they are laboring in unbelief from the start of their salvation, then they haven't really entered into that rest in Christ Jesus even though they are saved by believing in Him.

I mentioned that 3000 people accepted Jesus there. That does not count the numbers that were healed! What does your ministry do? Criticize! And nobody gets healed or saved. But that's a Christian ministry......Isn't it?
Kenneth Copeland did not do it so don't give him the credit for them believing in Him to be saved. You can give credit to Kenneth Copeland for leading them into bondage, but don't think for one moment that God is pleased by that, because that is man's way of laying claim to His work by bringing them into bondage to Him.

1 Corinthians 3:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?[SUP] 6 [/SUP]I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.[SUP]7 [/SUP]So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

Look at the ministry's call to believers to make a commitment to prayer...

Commitment to Prayer - Kenneth Copeland Ministries

Heavenly Father, today I make the commitment to a deeper life of prayer. I know that You answer prayer, and I desire an effectual, fervent prayer life. Help me stay committed and disciplined. My desire is to seek You and know You. The Bible says in John 10:27, “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.” You are my Good Shepherd, and I thank You, Lord, that You lead me, and I hear Your voice. I am listening, Lord! In Jesus’ Name. Amen.
So commitment is a promise and as a promise, each believer is now under the law to keep that commitment/promise.

God cannot help believers keep that commitment/promise because by His words, that is the believer's work.

Ecclesiastes 5:[SUP]4 [/SUP]When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay.[SUP]6 [/SUP]Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: wherefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands?

Numbers 30:[SUP]2 [/SUP]If a man vow a vow unto the Lord, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.
If circumcision which is the smallest letter of the law, and if any saved believer do that, then they are entitled to do the whole law. then where does making a commitment/promise to God falls under when it is the biggest letter of the law?

Matthew 5:[SUP]33 [/SUP]Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:

Jesus is talking about how His people of older times would perform their oaths unto the Lord... and then He said not to do that, adding emphasis not to even swearing to do it either.

[SUP]34 [/SUP]But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:

Then Jesus said why a saved believer should not make commitments nor promises to Him.

[SUP]35 [/SUP]Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. [SUP]36 [/SUP]Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. [SUP]37 [/SUP]But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

That is why we live by faith in Him & His promises to us in following Him; not by the religious flesh of keeping a commitment or a promise to do so.

Look at James in rebuking making boastful plans for tomorrow...

James 4:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain: [SUP]14 [/SUP]Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away. [SUP]15 [/SUP]For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that. [SUP]16 [/SUP]But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

So by His words, no one can say.. "oh well... Jesus will help me keep my commitment & promises" when His words in the O.T. says He will not and in the N.T. as well.

When believers realize they are in bondage and not pleasing God by their lack of faith in Him for following Him, they can confess their sins to Jesus Christ, and He will set them free from their commitments and promises so they can rest in Him and His promises to us to help us to follow Him by faith alone.

Hebrews 11:1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For by it the elders obtained a good report.....[SUP]6 [/SUP]But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

There is no other way to follow Him nor serve Him other than by faith in Jesus Christ.

Adding making a commitment to Christ to the altar call is not preaching the gospel when believing in Him is how we are saved. By teaching new saved believers to apply also their faith in Him as our Good Shepherd, is how we are to follow Him as He will help us to understand His words in the KJV to abide in His words in living that reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ as His disciples so that we may bear fruit and that our joy may be full.

Luke 9:23And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

A believer boasting of keeping his commitment as a means to how he is following Him is hardly denying himself as able to follow Him in the religious flesh. We can only follow Him by faith in Him and His promises to us as our Good Shepherd.
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,972
113
#94
he, satan and his servants, will, as we have all witnessed, they will be back, in
some 'form or another', and some of their deceived followers will continue to support them...
this is how they make their 'high-style' of living possible, they know no other way,
they are very adept sorcerers with much support and power...

it truly is a pitiful age-old repetition...
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#95
When believers realize they are in bondage and not pleasing God by their lack of faith in Him for following Him, they can confess their sins to Jesus Christ, and He will set them free from their commitments and promises so they can rest in Him and His promises to us to help us to follow Him by faith alone.
So a believer can be in bondage yet that is because they are not pleasing God by their lack of faith? Is that because faith without works is dead....

Faith comes by hearing right? But be you doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. James 1:22
 
P

Persuaded

Guest
#96
3000 souls into the kingdom and you worry about them...I worry about you my friend. Big time
And his net worth is not your business.

My point is though. These people get many souls saved. What about your ...uh...churches?
My concern is simple---
Are these 3000 really saved or have they been mislead by this man's false Gospel?
I do not believe I am wrong to question these TV preachers who become multi-millionaires by preaching a false Gospel.
And Brother, you have no idea how many souls are won through the ministry of those on this forum.
 
P

Persuaded

Guest
#97
3000 souls into the kingdom and you worry about them...I worry about you my friend. Big time
And his net worth is not your business.

My point is though. These people get many souls saved. What about your ...uh...churches?
Another point---
There are tens of thousands of Christians who are in dire need of help with food and medical bills.
If this man you admire and others like him were as great a Christian as you believe, they would share that wealth.
They would be poor or middle class Christians like the rest of us.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,025
506
113
#98
And just think....The so called ministry you are associated with probably has not led anywhere that number of people to the Lord in all its history....Those people are saved because Copeland is willing to share the Word. Why has your ministry not done the same numbers? I would rather be associated with a ministry that gets people into the Kingdom than one that does not. wouldn't you? Apparently not.

I mentioned that 3000 people accepted Jesus there. That does not count the numbers that were healed! What does your ministry do? Criticize! And nobody gets healed or saved. But that's a Christian ministry......Isn't it?
Now I'm sorry denadii, I don't want you to think I'm always picking on your guy copeland but how many people have been saved through joyce meyer's minstry? I mean check out what she owns as a woman Pastor or Evangelist salary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko5zkkZ0GmQ :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
P

Persuaded

Guest
#99
Now I'm sorry denadii, I don't want you to think I'm always picking on your guy copeland but how many people have been saved through joyce meyer's minstry? I mean check out what she owns as a woman Pastor or Evangelist salary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko5zkkZ0GmQ :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
And to think, I WASTED 21 years with this small church in Arkansas.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,025
506
113
And to think, I WASTED 21 years with this small church in Arkansas.
Trust me, if it's any comfort I know a lot of people that left the wof movement and some of them were in it even longer than you plus some of them are very good friends of mine. The point is, you came to your senses and I hope and pray denadii will come to his senses one day. Keep up the good work. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto