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Thread: HOLY SPIRIT unholy spirit

  1. #21


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    Default Re: HOLY SPIRIT UNHOLY SPIRIT

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen63 View Post
    Oh, there is some reason..... When Jesus was on Earth he plainly old His disciples that He would send another comforter.

    Jesus was the disciples' comforter. One who came along side with them with strength & power.(paracletos)

    Another paracletos would be sent by Jesus Himself to the church to do for them what He Himself had done.

    This is why Jesus said the church would do greater works than Him. Imagine us doing these things on our own, lol!

    Just as Jesus was given by God to be our Savior, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was given by Jesus to be the strength & power of the church.

    Cut off this power, & the church is helpless. Satan would overrun the church & destroy its influence.

    This is exactly what Satan is doing at CC..... overrunning the true church, destroying its influence, & replacing true doctrine with easy believism.
    John 3-16 and 17. guess, according to you, Jesus was into easy believism.

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    Default Re: HOLY SPIRIT UNHOLY SPIRIT

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen63 View Post
    To those that believe that the Holy Spirit baptism come at salvation: This is not true.

    Yes, we receive the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of adoption at salvation, but that's not the Baptism.

    Technically, the New Testament could not come to pass without the death of the testator, Jesus Christ.

    But once Jesus died & resurrected, His disciples were saved.

    Yet, Jesus tells them after His resurrection to tarry in the upper room until they be endued with power from on high.

    Two separate events.

    Acts also gives other examples of separate events.

    The church at Azuza taught three different works of grace:
    1. Salvation by grace through faith.
    2. Sanctification, the act of putting off the old man & putting on the new man created in Christ Jesus. (spiritual growth/maturity)
    3. The baptism in the Holy Spirit/Ghost where the believer is endued with power & gifts of the Holy Spirit to do whatever God needs us to do in ministry.
    The disciples were baptized in the Holy Spirit by Jesus in John 20. The disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit for power to minister the word of God to the lost souls at Pentecost. One baptism when Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit upon them. Many subsequent fillings.

    Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

    For the cause of Christ
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    Default Re: HOLY SPIRIT UNHOLY SPIRIT

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen63 View Post
    To those that believe that the Holy Spirit baptism come at salvation: This is not true.

    Yes, we receive the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of adoption at salvation, but that's not the Baptism.

    Technically, the New Testament could not come to pass without the death of the testator, Jesus Christ.

    But once Jesus died & resurrected, His disciples were saved.

    Yet, Jesus tells them after His resurrection to tarry in the upper room until they be endued with power from on high.

    Two separate events.

    Acts also gives other examples of separate events.

    The church at Azuza taught three different works of grace:
    1. Salvation by grace through faith.
    2. Sanctification, the act of putting off the old man & putting on the new man created in Christ Jesus. (spiritual growth/maturity)
    3. The baptism in the Holy Spirit/Ghost where the believer is endued with power & gifts of the Holy Spirit to do whatever God needs us to do in ministry.
    I didn't realise you believed this.

    I believe there is a time between when someone hears the gospel and truly understands and believes and when they are baptized by the Holy Spirit. Before folks have the indwelling Holy Spirit, they are not saved.

    However I disagree that it's three different works of grace as you list it.

    I believe in Prevenient grace, justifying grace and Sanctifying grace.

    Being annointed into ministry involves growing in a local church body and using your spiritual gifts to help others grow. Even baby Christians are given spiritual gifts by our Father, but aren't entrusted with ministry until they are full grown/ mature in Christ.

    Maybe it's all about wording?

    Do you believe people can have the indwelling Holy Spirit without the outward baptism into ministry?
    Last edited by Ariel82; February 17th, 2017 at 12:17 PM.
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    Default Re: HOLY SPIRIT UNHOLY SPIRIT

    The Holy Spirit points to God and His heavenly wisdom.

    Earthly demonic spirits point to the failings of others and self, being seen as right, bitterness, offenses and pride.

    God talks about what is righteous, holy, pure and uplifting.

    The world talks about what is wrong and how awful people are.

    God talks about who He is making them to become.

    God looks to the future.

    The world condemns everyone's past actions.

    The world sees Jesus death on the cross.

    God's people see Him ressurected and reigning in Heaven.
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    Default Re: HOLY SPIRIT UNHOLY SPIRIT

    You want to go deeper?

    Demons say "look at that wolf!" "That person is possessed by a demon, you need to attack them and save other to prove that you are a child of God."

    The Holy Spirit says "My angels will take care of the supernatural. Pray for them and learn to help heal the wounded, you do not fight against flesh and blood but spiritual wickedness in high places. Like Saul who later became Paul, I have mighty plans for those people under attack. Plans you do not know. Focus on the task I have entrusted to your care. Don't go demon hunting. Instead learn to treat the wounded."

    What does God tell you?

    Have you learned to discern between good and evil?

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    Default Re: HOLY SPIRIT UNHOLY SPIRIT

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterJens View Post
    There are people in church who are not saved, but we are called to honour Him and Him alone.
    What you have in church is hypocracy and letting people compromise with sin and continue to
    live a life like they are walking in Christ.

    Where churches start to loose the plot when love and repentance are not high on their agenda,
    where the cross does not feature in their meditations or intentions.

    The problem with emphasis on glory, praise, being positive at the cost of everything else, is they
    just become the world singing uplifting songs.
    here you are again mixing up the Cross and the Law.

    dispense your Law, peter....but don't forget the pure gospel.
    The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod

    http://www.lcms.org/

    ~

    Sooner or later, somebody is going to insist that the Bible be studied, and then there will be disunity.
    Gary Summers

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    Default Re: HOLY SPIRIT UNHOLY SPIRIT

    Quote Originally Posted by samuel23 View Post
    Stephen, you are a bible scholar, you know where the place and places are that describe what I have written, just in case,1) Paul said that "we have ALL been baptized in the same Spirit"(paraphrase). 2) Also, find me a place where Paul wrote to Christians and told any of them to seek to be baptized in the Holy Spirit.
    1) Here is your scripture you were using, & it's not talking about the Baptizing in the Holy Spirit. It speaks about being baptized in the body of Christ. (salvation)
    New American Standard Bible
    1Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

    2) The people didn't ask, except one, & he was selfish. I see where you're going here.

    Acts 8: 14Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent them Peter and John, 15who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit. 18Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was bestowed through the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money, 19saying, “Give this authority to me as well, so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.20But Peter said to him, “May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money! 21“You have no part or portion in this matter, for your heart is not right before God. 22“Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours, and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you. 23“For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bondage of iniquity.” 24But Simon answered and said, “Pray to the Lord for me yourselves, so that nothing of what you have said may come upon me.”

    What you fail to recognize is that several times the Apostles went to lay hands on them to receive the Holy Spirit. That was a common thing in the early church, but wasn't the rule. It didn't happen at Cornelius' house.

    The disciples were commanded to tarry till they were baptized in the Spirit. This is why Pentecostal christians "tarry" at the altar, seeking God's promise of the Spirit.

    Why would Jesus command them to "tarry" in the upper room? Because they couldn't minister as God needed them till they were baptized in the Spirit.

    IMO, the true church has love, compassion, etc. to help others, but they haven't received the ability to fully do God's will until they are Baptized in the Spirit.

    It is also my opinion that this baptism is the reason why for generations the Pentecostals has been the fastest growing movement in the church.

    New American Standard Bible
    Zech 4:6 Then he said to me, "This is the word of the LORD to Zerubbabel saying, 'Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,' says the LORD of hosts.

    BTW, I don't consider myself as a Bible scholar. Just a disciple of the Lord.

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    Default Re: HOLY SPIRIT UNHOLY SPIRIT

    Quote Originally Posted by gb9 View Post
    John 3-16 and 17. guess, according to you, Jesus was into easy believism.
    Real believing is not accepting Christ & thinking I don't have to do anything else.

    We re saved by grace through faith.....a continuous work of faith, not a one-time fixes all.

    The just shall live by faith.


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    Default Re: HOLY SPIRIT UNHOLY SPIRIT

    Quote Originally Posted by notuptome View Post
    The disciples were baptized in the Holy Spirit by Jesus in John 20. The disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit for power to minister the word of God to the lost souls at Pentecost. One baptism when Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit upon them. Many subsequent fillings.

    Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger

    John 20 says nothing of the kind.

    When Jesus breathed on them, it was a temporary filling, like those of the OT.

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    Default Re: HOLY SPIRIT UNHOLY SPIRIT

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen63 View Post

    John 20 says nothing of the kind.

    When Jesus breathed on them, it was a temporary filling, like those of the OT.
    Joh 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

    As usual you have it backwards. NT the Holy Spirit abides within believers unless you consider the disciples to be unbelievers in the upper room. Seems to me the appearance of the risen Savior removes all doubt in the hearts of those in the upper room.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
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    Default Re: HOLY SPIRIT UNHOLY SPIRIT

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen63 View Post
    Real believing is not accepting Christ & thinking I don't have to do anything else.

    We re saved by grace through faith.....a continuous work of faith, not a one-time fixes all.

    The just shall live by faith.

    Whose faith? Ours or the Son of God? It is not the faith that saves but Gods grace. Faith through hearing the word of God is how we receive the grace of God. God is the active principal in our salvation. We are saved, we are being saved and we will be saved not by what we will do but by what God has done.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
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    use it to examine yourself not others.

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    Default Re: HOLY SPIRIT UNHOLY SPIRIT

    Quote Originally Posted by Ariel82 View Post

    Do you believe people can have the indwelling Holy Spirit without the outward baptism into ministry?
    Absolutely.

    Every christian has the indwelling Holy Spirit. That's what's known as the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry Abba, Father.

    It's a rather gray area though about how much folks can minister with only the infilling. Some do pretty well with it.

    The sad thing, though, is what they could be doing if they had the baptism.
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    Default Re: HOLY SPIRIT UNHOLY SPIRIT

    Quote Originally Posted by Ariel82 View Post
    The Holy Spirit points to God and His heavenly wisdom.

    Earthly demonic spirits point to the failings of others and self, being seen as right, bitterness, offenses and pride.

    God talks about what is righteous, holy, pure and uplifting.

    The world talks about what is wrong and how awful people are
    .

    God talks about who He is making them to become.

    God looks to the future.

    The world condemns everyone's past actions.

    The world sees Jesus death on the cross.

    God's people see Him resurrected and reigning in Heaven.
    New American Standard Bible
    Luke 17:3 "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.

    New American Standard Bible
    Eph 5:11 Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them;

    New American Standard Bible
    1Tim 5:20 Those who continue in sin,rebuke in the presence of all, so that the rest also will be fearful of sinning.

    New American Standard Bible
    2Tim 4:1I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: 2preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.


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    Default Re: HOLY SPIRIT UNHOLY SPIRIT

    Quote Originally Posted by notuptome View Post
    Joh 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

    As usual you have it backwards. NT the Holy Spirit abides within believers unless you consider the disciples to be unbelievers in the upper room. Seems to me the appearance of the risen Savior removes all doubt in the hearts of those in the upper room.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger

    "Workers for".......they will always interject self and works to help Jesus complete what he started and what he will finish.....

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    Default Re: HOLY SPIRIT UNHOLY SPIRIT

    Quote Originally Posted by Ariel82 View Post
    You want to go deeper?

    Demons say "look at that wolf!" "That person is possessed by a demon, you need to attack them and save other to prove that you are a child of God."

    The Holy Spirit says "My angels will take care of the supernatural. Pray for them and learn to help heal the wounded, you do not fight against flesh and blood but spiritual wickedness in high places. Like Saul who later became Paul, I have mighty plans for those people under attack. Plans you do not know. Focus on the task I have entrusted to your care. Don't go demon hunting. Instead learn to treat the wounded."


    What does God tell you?

    Have you learned to discern between good and evil?
    I'm concerned..... Did the Holy Spirit tell you that? I hope you didn't quote something never said. That would indicate a false prophet.

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    Default Re: HOLY SPIRIT UNHOLY SPIRIT

    Scripture in many ways is like a scalpel, in the hands of someone well studied it is a fantastic tool, in the hands of someone zealous but ignorant can cause more damage than good. Many of the debates and disagreements on this site are because people ignore everything that refutes their claims and shout the few passages that support them. If you want to fully be a disciple of God then you have to put the time in to study. First, you have to understand that some letters were written to specific churches and people for a reason. Second, you can't only read the Bible and get a whole understanding. Seek and you will find, ask and it will be given. The Truth isn't just summed up in one verse. The Bible is full of clues that need to be spiritually discerned. As much as people would like to read it as a novel or a textbook, it is also a treasure map. I know most people here won't have a clue what I'm talking about. Yeshua tried to explain the unseen things around us that effect the sensible (able to interpret with our senses) world we live in.

    I'm not saying that you need to experience the "new age" spiritualistic crap they are selling but you should study it. We should realize that every good lie has a large percentage of truth mixed with it. Most of what people call spiritual warfare is just the uncontrolled appetite of the flesh. Chemicals and programs that God designed for adaptation to our environment and procreation we messed up. Most temptation is physical, chemical, and psychological, not spiritual.

    Here is the piece in the puzzle that people ignore, we are energy! Instead of the word spirit, let's substitute energy. Different forms of energy have different properties. Even electromagnetic radiation has a scale based on the wavelength and frequency. Our bodies resonate a different frequency based on many things including health, faith and emotion. Our brains produce a large amount of electricity and currents run through our bodies generating a field. Our fields can overlap other fields and form group mentalities, mob mentalities and the like. The Holy Spirit is energy.

    I'm sure everybody here understands wifi. There is a router connected to the modem which transmits the signal by way of energy waves. These waves are constant and exist whether we can see them or not. The only way we can access the signal is by use of a receiver. Even if we have a receiver we still need the security code in order to transmit freely. Then we will have communication to and from the internet. If you can understand that then you should be able to see the parallel here. God created us each with our own energy signature like a sim card in a smart phone. This is the us that will be put into a new device at the resurrection. Our bodies are like the smart phone that contain our identity. Our brain adjusts our energy frequency, tuning it into the wifi signal making it compatible, allowing us access to the modem and the internet (God). When our energy connects to God, He can download the new program making us a new creation. All of Christ's teachings point to the fact that we need to love! Love effects our brain and generates energy patterns that are measurable. Guilt and fear also change these brain pattern signals. Christ freed us from the guilt of our sin. We are supposed to forgive others so they won't feel guilt disabling them from achieving the signal. I'm sure some of you think I'm nuts. I don't care. If you look at EVERYTHING objectively you can see that at the very least what I am saying has merit scientifically. The Creator used science and technology to create and program us.

    Here is the point, sorry it took so long. Evidences of the Holy Spirit are based on signal strength (brain wave pattern) and DNA compatibility. Salvation is just based on whether the signal was established. Why do you suppose genealogy is so important to God, and that you had to be an Israelite to be a prophet? There is definitely a connection. Why are certain blood types more susceptible to alien abduction? Now I'm really off the reservation! Life is in the blood. It's all tied together. Why does fasting effect prayer? Why did Yeshua starve Himself before the miracles began? Food effects the brain, starving effects the brain. What you eat effects the brain, eating clean and unclean. It was more important before the Holy Spirit was sent. Why is it stated that where two or more are gathered in my name, I will be there among you? If God is fully in each of us would we need more? Why were many old testament heroes the prodigy of couples who were seemingly childless? Why is the pineal gland (third eye) so important to Luciferians and the occult? Why did Hitler fluoridate the water in the concentration camps? Why did Hitler care about about genetics? Why did many of the scientists we study say that they received their information while sleeping?

    Regardless as to whether it makes me look like a lunatic, information that we have at our disposal these days sure shines a light on the glossed over parts of scripture. Go ahead, take your shots, I'm ready.

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    Default Re: HOLY SPIRIT UNHOLY SPIRIT

    Quote Originally Posted by notuptome View Post
    Joh 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

    As usual you have it backwards. NT the Holy Spirit abides within believers unless you consider the disciples to be unbelievers in the upper room. Seems to me the appearance of the risen Savior removes all doubt in the hearts of those in the upper room.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    Sorry, I missed that one.

    nevertheless, it was still only temporary.

    The Holy Spirit indwelling & baptism are two different things.

    If they weren't the church would have a poor excuse for not ministering in the gifts, wouldn't it?
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    Default Re: HOLY SPIRIT UNHOLY SPIRIT

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen63 View Post
    Sorry, I missed that one.

    nevertheless, it was still only temporary.

    The Holy Spirit indwelling & baptism are two different things.

    If they weren't the church would have a poor excuse for not ministering in the gifts, wouldn't it?
    Never temporary in the NT. Only one baptism which is regeneration unto eternal life. Many fillings for service. You cannot have the Holy Spirit indwelling until you have been baptized unto eternal life.

    Apart from the indwelling Holy Spirit there are no gifts to minister with.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
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    Default Re: HOLY SPIRIT UNHOLY SPIRIT

    Hungry

    Holy Spirit is more than energy. I do understand that His touch can be like electricity. I've experienced this. But, He is a He...

    Why study new age? Walk in the Spirit which is what we are now...if we are baptized by Jesus or overwhelmed within and without..with His presence.

    Anointed and flowing in His grace. That's what we need to learn.
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    Jeepers Creepers...we gotta get new peepers.

    Mat 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

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    Default Re: HOLY SPIRIT UNHOLY SPIRIT

    Hey, I am just trying to warn those Christians in the Pentecostal movement that from the beginning this movement has had false spirits that have been able to persuade gullible people(Christian and non Christian)into believing that their manifestations are the manifestation of the Spirit of God. People get so excited over the spirit manifestations that they will not consider that such manifestations do not have to be of God, actually if one cannot find an example in the NT they most certainly are not of God.

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