Where does the idea of the immaculate conception come from?

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ROSSELLA

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#1
So, I grew up in a family that was part Catholic part Protestant. I've heard about the theory of the Immaculate Conception for quite a while. The thing is, I don't see any Biblical evidence for it. Where does the theory come from?
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
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#2
So, I grew up in a family that was part Catholic part Protestant. I've heard about the theory of the Immaculate Conception for quite a while. The thing is, I don't see any Biblical evidence for it. Where does the theory come from?

Hi Rossella ....... If you will read the Book, "The Glories of Mary", written by by Cardinal and Saint Alphonsus de Liguori. It has probably the most comprehensive information about how 'Mary' was viewed and what was said about her throughout the centuries within the RCC.
 

Bladerunner

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Aug 22, 2016
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#3
Feb 1, 2017
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#4
Well I guess in the Gospels. Mary was a virgin and conceived Jesus, immaculate conception.

I'm not a Catholic though, but that's what I always thought it meant.
 

T_Laurich

Senior Member
Mar 24, 2013
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#5
No man or women is without sin... You cannot defend the immaculate conception... Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

Even Marry needed Christ :)
 

T_Laurich

Senior Member
Mar 24, 2013
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#6
Well I guess in the Gospels. Mary was a virgin and conceived Jesus, immaculate conception.

I'm not a Catholic though, but that's what I always thought it meant.
Immaculate conception means that she did not sin once...
 
Feb 1, 2017
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#7
Immaculate conception means that she did not sin once...
Oh, well I mean idk about for the rest of her life, but if that's the case I still don't think Mary sinned at least when she conceived, carried, and bore Jesus. So wouldn't that still be immaculate conception?
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
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#8
Immaculate conception means that she did not sin once...

T Laurich.......Yo are right...However how did she get that way...We see sin removed from a people (Israel) by God. It of course as a simple repeat what He did for Mary.
 

T_Laurich

Senior Member
Mar 24, 2013
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#9
T Laurich.......Yo are right...However how did she get that way...We see sin removed from a people (Israel) by God. It of course as a simple repeat what He did for Mary.
What do we get when we are free of sin? Answer: The Holly Spirit....

Question: did Marry have the Holly Spirit Before she had Christ and even during her pregnancy... Answer: NO....


What did the angel tell Marry the reason she was going to be given Christ? Answer: Because she was in favor with God... Not because she was sinless....

Many people have found favor with God throughout the bible.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#10
So, I grew up in a family that was part Catholic part Protestant. I've heard about the theory of the Immaculate Conception for quite a while. The thing is, I don't see any Biblical evidence for it. Where does the theory come from?
There is no Biblical support for it, nor for many other things they believe.

God several times throughout Scripture says He will not share His glory,
while Catholics glorify, venerate, and adore Mary.
Jesus did not once in
Scripture address Mary as His mother, but Catholics call her the mother
of humanity, and as if that were not enough, the queen of heaven.

Jesus said that anyone who did the will of God was His mother, His brother,
His sister. Jesus never elevated Mary above others, but Catholics feel a need
to not just elevate Mary above others, but they put her on a par with Jesus
in terms of His sinlessness, (do you really think that she needed to be sinless
so that Jesus Christ could be sinless?). Jesus called many people blessed.
Roman Catholics will always stress that Mary is blessed.

They are forced by so-called infallible papal decree to accept the Marian
dogmas of her bodily assumption and immaculate conception, neither of
which have any basis whatsoever in Scripture.
Jesus told us to pray to our
Father in heaven, yet they pray to Mary, because their popes tell them to
despite what Jesus explicitly instructed. Scripture clearly states that there
is one intercessor between God and man, yet their popes, bishops, priests,
parishioners etc, will tell you to pray to Mary, and other dead people, for
intercession. They fault those who do as Jesus suggested, while they
disobey Him to follow someone else instead.

We see nothing in Scripture to endorse her bodily assumption, her perpetual
virginity (Jesus had siblings after all, two of whom have books in the Bible!),
her immaculate conception. We see no need to pray to her, or any ability on
her part, as dead as she is believed to be, to intercede on our behalf against
the explicit words of Jesus in Scripture.

Within Catholicism, there is a drive to define a new Marian dogma in which
Roman Catholics, as a matter of faith, would be obliged to accept:

1) Mary participates in redemption with Jesus Christ;

2) grace is granted by Jesus only through the intercession of Mary; and

3) all prayers from the faithful must flow through Mary, who brings them to
the attention of her Son. Scripture also tells us not to call anyone Father but
God, while they call many men "father" and blindly follow them.

They believe that a fallible man is the Rock that Jesus is building His Church on,
not a confession of faith divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit of God, despite a
plethora of Scriptures that attest to the fact that God is the sole Rock of our
salvation. They teach purgatory, and many other things neither the apostles
nor Jesus ever taught. For instance, they claim priests must be celibate,
when they were not in the early church. Another example would be infant
baptism, nowhere promoted in Scripture.

Scripture tells us to study God's Word, and to meditate on it. Roman
Catholics burned people at the stake for daring to read the Bible.

Despite all this, and more, the Roman
Catholic Church considers
herself the only valid expression of the community of God.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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26,037
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#11
Oh, well I mean idk about for the rest of her life, but if that's the case I still don't think Mary sinned at least when she conceived, carried, and bore Jesus. So wouldn't that still be immaculate conception?
The ex cathedra (mandated belief) dogma of immaculate conception has absolutely nothing to do with the conception of Jesus. Roman Catholic dogma claims that Mary was preserved from sin from her conception, so that Jesus could be born sinless.
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
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#12
What do we get when we are free of sin? Answer: The Holly Spirit....

Question: did Marry have the Holly Spirit Before she had Christ and even during her pregnancy... Answer: NO....


What did the angel tell Marry the reason she was going to be given Christ? Answer: Because she was in favor with God... Not because she was sinless....

Many people have found favor with God throughout the bible.

Its ok but you missed the whole target.... I digress...the Holy Spirit was not what I was talking about.
 
Feb 1, 2017
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#13
The ex cathedra (mandated belief) dogma of immaculate conception has absolutely nothing to do with the conception of Jesus. Roman Catholic dogma claims that Mary was preserved from sin from her conception, so that Jesus could be born sinless.
Okay, well that makes more sense. Though I think that dogma sounds pretty right, I mean if Mary sinned later, idk, but I don't see how she was sinning before or when she conceived and carried Jesus. So Jesus was conceived immaculately.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,876
26,037
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#14
Okay, well that makes more sense. Though I think that dogma sounds pretty right, I mean if Mary sinned later, idk, but I don't see how she was sinning before or when she conceived and carried Jesus. So Jesus was conceived immaculately.
The dogma has absolutely nothing to do with how Jesus was conceived.
 

T_Laurich

Senior Member
Mar 24, 2013
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#15
Okay, well that makes more sense. Though I think that dogma sounds pretty right, I mean if Mary sinned later, idk, but I don't see how she was sinning before or when she conceived and carried Jesus. So Jesus was conceived immaculately.
The funny thing is, people believe God saved Marry of sin, to save Christ... That is a pretty long reach around and breaks the rule that we are all born unto sin. Psalm 51:5

So if God could have saved Marry from sin at birth, why not just skip marry keep with Promise in Genesis and save Christ from sin?


Seriously... Immaculate conception only makes sense if someone worships marry and not Christ.
 
Feb 1, 2017
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#16
The dogma has absolutely nothing to do with how Jesus was conceived.
Well if it is about Mary being sinless before and during the conception of Jesus, thus it being immaculate, wouldn't it have everything to do with Jesus' conception?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,876
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#17
In fact Roman Catholics call Mary the mother of God, instead of the mother of
the Son of God, but then turn around and essentially say that God could not
have been sinless unless Mary was. That looks quite a lot like blasphemy to me.
 

T_Laurich

Senior Member
Mar 24, 2013
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#18
In fact Roman Catholics call Mary the mother of God, instead of the mother of
the Son of God, but then turn around and essentially say that God could not
have been sinless unless Mary was. That looks quite a lot like blasphemy to me.
Exactly!

Immaculate conception is to say that Marry saves Christ of sin, and Christ saves the world of sin, therefore, Marry truly saved the world.
 
Feb 1, 2017
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#19
The funny thing is, people believe God saved Marry of sin, to save Christ... That is a pretty long reach around and breaks the rule that we are all born unto sin. Psalm 51:5

So if God could have saved Marry from sin at birth, why not just skip marry keep with Promise in Genesis and save Christ from sin?


Seriously... Immaculate conception only makes sense if someone worships marry and not Christ.
I mean I don't see how that so much saves Jesus as it does Mary, at least in the way you guys word it. I mean idk if Mary ever sinned after giving birth to Jesus, but I don't think she was a sinner before and during or for conceiving Jesus. I mean immaculate means flawless, and we know conception means. So it semantically makes sense Jesus was immaculately conceived by God in the womb of Mary as a virgin.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,876
26,037
113
#20
Well if it is about Mary being sinless before and during the conception of Jesus, thus it being immaculate, wouldn't it have everything to do with Jesus' conception?
It has absolutely nothing to do with the conception of Jesus. The dogma of the immaculate conception of MARY states that Mary was preserved from sin at the moment of her conception. This is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854:

The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Saviour of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin.
They also believe she never sinned her whole life.