THE PHARISEES COMPARED TO THE PHARISEES OPERATING TODAY

[Stephen63]

Not hardly...go back and read.....see you say your not., but you seem to defend it...HAHA!

Maybe you can answer......Does the SPIRIT point to JESUS or itself?

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Do you know of two sets of verses in context that supports hysterical laughter in assembly capacity worship as a practice?

Any time the church lacks a particular teaching, that teaching is brought up by preachers & teachers to bring back spiritual balance to that body. That's what sermons do.

Since the church as a whole lacks the teaching about the Holy Spirit, teaching & preaching of this knowledge is necessary.

I thought you knew that.

 

[dcontroversal]

Any time the church lacks a particular teaching, that teaching is brought up by preachers & teachers to bring back spiritual balance to that body. That's what sermons do.

Since the church as a whole lacks the teaching about the Holy Spirit, teaching & preaching of this knowledge is necessary.

I thought you knew that.

For sure not saying that we are not to teach the verses that deal with the work of the spirit...like leading and guiding into all truth, convicting and convincing of sin etc......but primarily the Spirit's job points to JESUS and the word....and in my view...a lot of what is done today under the banner of the Holy Spirit is questionable in the least....

 

[popeye]

The question is simple....the verse is simple......you refuse to answer because of what you believe.....the SPIRIT will NOT promote itself....it will POINT to JESUS and the WORD of GOD......not some hyped up, HOLY GHOST pushed, pew jumping, hysterical laughing supposed worship of God where the SPIRIT is emphasized over JESUS.....The verse is clear.....when churches MEET in capacity the SPIRIT of GOD will point to JESUS and the WORD...not itself.......

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

The above verse......DOES the HOLY SPIRIT promote SELF or JESUS and the WORD?

More cherry picking.

The ENTIRE BIBLE was written by men MOVED OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.

DOES HE SPEAK OF HIMSELF????

HELLO??????

 

[Stephen63]

For sure not saying that we are not to teach the verses that deal with the work of the spirit...like leading and guiding into all truth, convicting and convincing of sin etc......but primarily the Spirit's job points to JESUS and the word....and in my view...a lot of what is done today under the banner of the Holy Spirit is questionable in the least....

There we agree.

But..... why? Why is there more false teaching about the Holy Ghost than most other things?

Because of the value of the doctrine. Destroy knowledge & faith in the Holy Spirit, & the church is powerless.

Satan knows he doesn't have to destroy the church..... it's much more a smack in the face of the Father for an arrogant, prideful enemy to leave the church alive & powerless. He knows then that many of the infant church will go through the falling away & God will judge them Himself.

Imagine Satan sitting back & watching God have to judge His own people. It's what happened in the OT all over again.

 

[popeye]

What you are referring to,but have no grasp on,is the kingship of Jesus.

The Holy Spirit is not king,neither is the father.

Jesus is king. He is placed or enthroned above all. It PLEASES the father to exalt his son.

Both the Holy Spirit,and the Father work to point men to Jesus. The Holy Spirit is the helper and the power.

That is what is behind the biblical dynamic of "he only speaks of himself".

He is not the king,he empowers. He helps,he moves and he breaks evil .

He IS IN FACT THE ANOINTING,that was poured on David at his inauguration.

It was under his power that Goliath went down.

You do not grasp of because you have been disenfranchised.

You are told there is no power,and told that cherry picked falsehood that the Holy Spirit CANNOT speak of himself,when in reality he refers to himself over and over in dictation in the word.

(unless you also ascribe another power to the men writing the bible)

 

[notuptome]

There we agree.

But..... why? Why is there more false teaching about the Holy Ghost than most other things?

Because of the value of the doctrine. Destroy knowledge & faith in the Holy Spirit, & the church is powerless.

Satan knows he doesn't have to destroy the church..... it's much more a smack in the face of the Father for an arrogant, prideful enemy to leave the church alive & powerless. He knows then that many of the infant church will go through the falling away & God will judge them Himself.

Imagine Satan sitting back & watching God have to judge His own people. It's what happened in the OT all over again.

Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

The victory is already won.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[popeye]

Ok,here we will see the game changer. The Holy Spirit.

I was prompted by the Holy Spirit" look up those verses dc is erroneously posting"

Well,guess what?

It does not say what he erroneously believes

It SPECIFICALLY SAYS,he will speak WHAT HE IS PROMPTED TO SPEAK, not "of himself" as never speaking his own name.


See that? That was in fact the Holy Spirit showing me you are on a rabbit trail.

I did your homework for you.

 

[popeye]

Amazing,as I had never really dissected that with a microscope.

Thank you Holy Spirit.

LOL

 

[popeye]

...not nice to mess with the Holy Ghost.

He never looses

 

[popeye]

Looks more like you have no clue pal......The Holy Spirit points to JESUS not itself.....one who makes more to do about the SPIRIT is not being led of the Spirit.....

Last time I checked....the Spirit DROVE Jesus into the wilderness to be tempted and tested of the adversary...wake UP....

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

I believe you are now free to show other adherents that the "speak of himself" nonsense is completely blown apart.

And tell them it was revealed by the Holy Ghost.

LOL

 

[popeye]

Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

The victory is already won.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Yeah I see that "victory" in those persecuting charismatics.

As soon as they start,someone leaves them. His initials are H S

 

[Stephen63]

Ever wonder who was in the Temple of Solomon when God's glory ran the priests out?

 

[dcontroversal]

More cherry picking.

The ENTIRE BIBLE was written by men MOVED OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.

DOES HE SPEAK OF HIMSELF????

HELLO??????

Does not change the fact.....just like the video posted by ZONE.....it is ridiculous to think some dude swinging a jacket knocking men to the ground like bowling pins is biblical....my point exactly....a lot of the rigmarole we see in the name of the Holy Spirit is foolishness.....and has no bearing and or place in the word of God.....as a matter of fact the ONLY church in the entire N.T. that had issues and a miss use of the Spirit was the Corinthian Assembly....some 15 errors, immature and had to be corrected by 2 letters from PAUL dia JESUS......

I asked you in all fairness to produce 2 sets of verses in context that shows and proves some sort of hysterical laughter by God's people in an assembly CAPACITY worship service......

Our practice must be governed by the word and the parameters found in the word...we have NO right nor place to change, embellish, add to and or substitute acceptable worship practices with the ideas and practices of men that have no place found in the bible.....to think that this view is not biblical contradicts the word and the parameters set by the word....end of story.....!

And if you believe the bolded to be in error then why do we even need the bible to lay the guidelines for what is and what not is acceptable unto the LORD.

There are ways which seem right unto man, the end thereof are the ways of separation (DEATH)

 

[dcontroversal]

Ok,here we will see the game changer. The Holy Spirit.

I was prompted by the Holy Spirit" look up those verses dc is erroneously posting"

Well,guess what?

It does not say what he erroneously believes

It SPECIFICALLY SAYS,he will speak WHAT HE IS PROMPTED TO SPEAK, not "of himself" as never speaking his own name.


See that? That was in fact the Holy Spirit showing me you are on a rabbit trail.

I did your homework for you.

More misleading and misdirection...I cut and pasted it directly from the bible....again....very deceptive...not led of the Spirit....

Tying the Holy Spirit to lying and being deceptive...and you claim to be of him....and the POINT STANDS...the HOLY SPIRIT does not SPEAK OF HIMSELF nor does he PROMOTE HIMSELF but points to JESUS and the WORD of GOD.....pick your flavor....

MY STATEMENT is TRUE!

New International Version
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

New Living Translation
When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own but will tell you what he has heard. He will tell you about the future.

English Standard Version
When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

Berean Study Bible
However, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth. For He will not speak on His own, but He will speak what He hears, and He will declare to you what is to come.

Berean Literal Bible
But when He the, Spirit of truth, shall come, He will guide you into all the truth. For He will not speak from Himself, but whatever He may hear, He will speak. And He will declare to you the things coming.

New American Standard Bible
"But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.

King James Bible
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
When the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all the truth. For He will not speak on His own, but He will speak whatever He hears. He will also declare to you what is to come.

International Standard Version
Yet when the Spirit of Truth comes, he'll guide you into all truth. He won't speak on his own accord, but he'll speak whatever he hears and will declare to you the things that are to come.

NET Bible
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. For he will not speak on his own authority, but will speak whatever he hears, and will tell you what is to come.

New Heart English Bible
However when he, the Spirit of truth, has come, he will guide you into all truth, for he will not speak on his own; but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you things that are coming.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“But whenever The Spirit of The Truth comes, he will lead you into the whole truth, for he will not speak of his own will, but he shall speak whatever he shall hear and he shall reveal the future to you.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
When the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into the full truth. He won't speak on his own. He will speak what he hears and will tell you about things to come.

New American Standard 1977
“But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.

Jubilee Bible 2000
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth, for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak, and he will cause you to know the things which are to come.

King James 2000 Bible
But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.

American King James Version
However, when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.

American Standard Version
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these'shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come.

Douay-Rheims Bible
But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will teach you all truth. For he shall not speak of himself; but what things soever he shall hear, he shall speak; and the things that are to come, he shall shew you.

Darby Bible Translation
But when he is come, the Spirit of truth, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but whatsoever he shall hear he shall speak; and he will announce to you what is coming.

English Revised Version
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come.

Webster's Bible Translation
But, when he, the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you into all the truth: for he will not speak from himself; but whatever he shall hear, that will he speak: and he will show you things to come.

Weymouth New Testament
But when He has come--the Spirit of Truth--He will guide you into all the truth. For He will not speak as Himself originating what He says, but all that He hears He will speak, and He will make known the future to you.

World English Bible
However when he, the Spirit of truth, has come, he will guide you into all truth, for he will not speak from himself; but whatever he hears, he will speak. He will declare to you things that are coming.

Young's Literal Translation
and when He may come -- the Spirit of truth -- He will guide you to all the truth, for He will not speak from Himself, but as many things as He will hear He will speak, and the coming things He will tell you;

 

[dcontroversal]

Ever wonder who was in the Temple of Solomon when God's glory ran the priests out?

It says God's glory and SMOKE.....if I remember right....and the reason they left is because it would KILL THEM.....pretty sure the Spirit and his presence does not KILL US......

 

[Stephen63]

It says God's glory and SMOKE.....if I remember right....and the reason they left is because it would KILL THEM.....pretty sure the Spirit and his presence does not KILL US......

1Kings 8:10It happened that when the priests came from the holy place, the cloud filled the house of the LORD, 11so that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud, for the glory of the LORD filled the house of the LORD.

Nope..... nothing about a "killing glory" in the scripture.

Again, using something you thought was biblical & wasn't.

While I questioned who was in the glory, I didn't make the statement that the Holy Spirit was. But we do know it was God's glory.

 

[dcontroversal]

1Kings 8:10It happened that when the priests came from the holy place, the cloud filled the house of the LORD, 11so that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud, for the glory of the LORD filled the house of the LORD.

Nope..... nothing about a "killing glory" in the scripture.

Again, using something you thought was biblical & wasn't.

While I questioned who was in the glory, I didn't make the statement that the Holy Spirit was. But we do know it was God's glory.

riginally Posted by dcontroversal

It says God's glory and SMOKE.....if I remember right....and the reason they left is because it would KILL THEM.....pretty sure the Spirit and his presence does not KILL US......

I don't make loose cannon blanket statements pal......the temple and tabernacle on earth is a shadow of the heavenly bro....and the high priest would most surly die had he entered so......get over yourself!

And they shall thus attend to your obligation and the obligation of all the tent, but they shall not come near to the furnishings of the sanctuary and the altar, or both they and you will die.

The LORD said to Moses: "Tell your brother Aaron that he shall not enter at any time into the holy place inside the veil, before the mercy seat which is on the ark, or he will die; for I will appear in the cloud over the mercy seat.

Now those who were to camp before the tabernacle eastward, before the tent of meeting toward the sunrise, are Moses and Aaron and his sons, performing the duties of the sanctuary for the obligation of the sons of Israel; but the layman coming near was to be put to death.

when they enter the tent of meeting, they shall wash with water, so that they will not die; or when they approach the altar to minister, by offering up in smoke a fire sacrifice to the LORD.

So that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of God.

Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.

And the foundations of the thresholds trembled at the voice of him who called out, while the temple was filling with smoke.

And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

And it (bells) shall be upon Aaron when he ministers, and its sound will be heard when he goes into the holy place before the Lord and when he comes out, that he may not die.”

 

[PeterJens]

The pharisees had various traits that defined them
1. They create a spurious dividing line between them and the rest
2. The heart, love and being real are not important
3. Identification with the chosen and junking the rest in how they identify themselves
4. They have no commitment to a righteous walk
5. They deprive people their ability to know the truth by censorship and slander
6. They are greedy and self indulgent

People forget the pharisees followed their traditions, and that was their guiding
principles. Today many groups to exactly the same things and fall into the
same traps.

The most important aspects or failures are not understanding love, the heart,
righteousness, and truth. Without this nothing else has value.

Because people flaunt hypocracy, or failure does not make them less like the pharisees,
they just hid their failure, it was still there for all to see.

If you believe almost exactly the same as someone else, but they shoot you down because
of some small issue, you know you have just arrived at pharisee city. The wrong dividing line.

 

[popeye]

The pharisees had various traits that defined them
1. They create a spurious dividing line between them and the rest
2. The heart, love and being real are not important
3. Identification with the chosen and junking the rest in how they identify themselves
4. They have no commitment to a righteous walk
5. They deprive people their ability to know the truth by censorship and slander
6. They are greedy and self indulgent

People forget the pharisees followed their traditions, and that was their guiding
principles. Today many groups to exactly the same things and fall into the
same traps.

The most important aspects or failures are not understanding love, the heart,
righteousness, and truth. Without this nothing else has value.

Because people flaunt hypocracy, or failure does not make them less like the pharisees,
they just hid their failure, it was still there for all to see.

If you believe almost exactly the same as someone else, but they shoot you down because
of some small issue, you know you have just arrived at pharisee city. The wrong dividing line.

Most of it is true. We all have this to some extent in our nature.

This is why we need the Holy Spirit.

Once we submit to his search light and relinquish resistance to his "plow" and continual Infilling we see the fruit of the spirit magnified in our lives.
I disagree with no 4.
They actually are known for their "godliness"

They are religious,but cold. They are legalists,and bask in each others accalaids

 

[popeye]

riginally Posted by dcontroversal

It says God's glory and SMOKE.....if I remember right....and the reason they left is because it would KILL THEM.....pretty sure the Spirit and his presence does not KILL US......

I don't make loose cannon blanket statements pal......the temple and tabernacle on earth is a shadow of the heavenly bro....and the high priest would most surly die had he entered so......get over yourself!

And they shall thus attend to your obligation and the obligation of all the tent, but they shall not come near to the furnishings of the sanctuary and the altar, or both they and you will die.

The LORD said to Moses: "Tell your brother Aaron that he shall not enter at any time into the holy place inside the veil, before the mercy seat which is on the ark, or he will die; for I will appear in the cloud over the mercy seat.

Now those who were to camp before the tabernacle eastward, before the tent of meeting toward the sunrise, are Moses and Aaron and his sons, performing the duties of the sanctuary for the obligation of the sons of Israel; but the layman coming near was to be put to death.

when they enter the tent of meeting, they shall wash with water, so that they will not die; or when they approach the altar to minister, by offering up in smoke a fire sacrifice to the LORD.

So that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of God.

Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.

And the foundations of the thresholds trembled at the voice of him who called out, while the temple was filling with smoke.

And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

And it (bells) shall be upon Aaron when he ministers, and its sound will be heard when he goes into the holy place before the Lord and when he comes out, that he may not die.”

Holy place,not holy of holies.

I believe he had only the priestly robe on in the hoh.

Like Jesus wore.