Was the apostle Paul a legitimate apostle or a fraud?

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EarnestQ

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2016
2,588
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#1
I have a friend who believes that the apostle Paul is a fraud and that it is wrong to read his epistles.

I have mentioned that the book of acts support Paul's apostleship, but she denies that also. A website (jesuswordsonly.com) supports this position but I suspect the website to be "confused" if not actually deceptive.

I am posting to ask if any others have any information about this unusual belief system, and if there are any websites that address the arguments made for this position.

Thank you.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#2
The best thing you can do....disassociate from anyone who denies the words of PAUL...he was taught by DIRECT revelation from JESUS, wrote almost half of the N.T. and to be as frank and blunt as possible without getting banned....anyone who denies the words of Paul as inspired scripture is blind and not too bright!
 

EarnestQ

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2016
2,588
311
83
#3
The best thing you can do....disassociate from anyone who denies the words of PAUL...he was taught by DIRECT revelation from JESUS, wrote almost half of the N.T. and to be as frank and blunt as possible without getting banned....anyone who denies the words of Paul as inspired scripture is blind and not too bright!

Thank you, but "disassociation" is not an option in this case.

And, character judgments, whether true or not, will not help me "enlighten" this individual. Thus, my request for more information about this controversy. ;-)
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#4
Peter supports Paul as an apostle.

If you only reads the red letters in the Bible she can be easily deceived into false doctrine. God gave us the WHOLLE Bible for a reason.

2 peter 3:14-16)

14 Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, 15 and regard the patience of our Lord to be salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard lest, being carried away by the error of unprincipled men, you fall from your own steadfastness, 18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
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#5
I would ask for her to provide specific examples of where Paul teaches fraudulent doctrine.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Paul seems to have it correct here in 2 Tim.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,142
612
113
69
Alabama
#6
I have a friend who believes that the apostle Paul is a fraud and that it is wrong to read his epistles.

I have mentioned that the book of acts support Paul's apostleship, but she denies that also. A website (jesuswordsonly.com) supports this position but I suspect the website to be "confused" if not actually deceptive.

I am posting to ask if any others have any information about this unusual belief system, and if there are any websites that address the arguments made for this position.

Thank you.
What did the apostle Peter have to say about Paul's apostleship?
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#7
I have a friend who believes that the apostle Paul is a fraud and that it is wrong to read his epistles.

I have mentioned that the book of acts support Paul's apostleship, but she denies that also. A website (jesuswordsonly.com) supports this position but I suspect the website to be "confused" if not actually deceptive.

I am posting to ask if any others have any information about this unusual belief system, and if there are any websites that address the arguments made for this position.

Thank you.
They need Jesus. The real Jesus. Not the made up Jesus of a lawyer turned self proclaimed revealer of truth, (jesuswordsonly.com).
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,555
13,320
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#8
I would also question their reasoning for rejecting Paul, or for affirming Jesus only. It seems rather narrow-minded, and goes against the Scripture which tells us Jesus' words in the first place.

Psalm 119:160
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
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#10
Thank you, but "disassociation" is not an option in this case.

And, character judgments, whether true or not, will not help me "enlighten" this individual. Thus, my request for more information about this controversy. ;-)

I hear ya....the only reason I mentioned it is because in the OP it seems you have tried to show her and she rejects what you have to say about the subject....does she deny that JESUS himself called and separated Paul to the Gentiles and his ministry in Acts on the road to Damascus?
 
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
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#11
Peter supports Paul as an apostle.

If you only reads the red letters in the Bible she can be easily deceived into false doctrine. God gave us the WHOLLE Bible for a reason.

2 peter 3:14-16)

14 Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, 15 and regard the patience of our Lord to be salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard lest, being carried away by the error of unprincipled men, you fall from your own steadfastness, 18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen
They dismiss that by saying Peter's epistles are forgeries.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
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#12
The problem is that people see Paul saying something and it seems to conflict with what Jesus has said. It is really the person is interpreting Jesus' words a certain way and thus it conflicts with what Paul is saying.

It is really the "application" of Jesus' words in their own minds that causes the stumbling block to what Paul is saying. We have them here in CC as well when they say that people are not obeying Jesus' words if they don't interpret them like they do.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
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#13
Some of it can be traced back to the time of Paul, some of the law keeping believers were against Paul - the Ebionites were a sect that rejected Paul because of his stance on the Law.

Once these people get it in their heads that Paul was wrong or a false apostle it's pretty hard to convince them otherwise.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,142
612
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Alabama
#14
Better yet, What did Jesus have to say about it on the road to Damascus.....
You are right of course but the argument you are going to be given by those who call Paul's apostleship into question is that this was merely his own testimony to his apostleship. If they do not believe Paul to be a legitimate apostle then they will not accept his account of the Damascus road event. What you need to show them is Luke's testimony about Paul's apostleship through the book of Acts.
 

EarnestQ

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2016
2,588
311
83
#15
I hear ya....the only reason I mentioned it is because in the OP it seems you have tried to show her and she rejects what you have to say about the subject....does she deny that JESUS himself called and separated Paul to the Gentiles and his ministry in Acts on the road to Damascus?

Yes, she does deny that.

She says Paul made it up.
 

EarnestQ

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2016
2,588
311
83
#16
You are right of course but the argument you are going to be given by those who call Paul's apostleship into question is that this was merely his own testimony to his apostleship. If they do not believe Paul to be a legitimate apostle then they will not accept his account of the Damascus road event. What you need to show them is Luke's testimony about Paul's apostleship through the book of Acts.

I have tried. She won't read the book of Acts.

She thinks Luke was also deceived.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#18
Yes, she does deny that.

She says Paul made it up.
Luke wrote Acts....so....I guess he is in on the scam as well....so is Peter who bears out Paul's apostleship.....so....and is the man that immersed Paul....now we have a conspiracy....

Jesus, Luke, Peter, Paul, Ananias and others.....
 

EarnestQ

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2016
2,588
311
83
#20
They need Jesus. The real Jesus. Not the made up Jesus of a lawyer turned self proclaimed revealer of truth, (jesuswordsonly.com).

I gather you also hold to this position.

Would you mind outlining your position so I can understand it better, please? This is a new teaching that I am not familiar with.

Thank you.