PreTrib is invalidated because it does not uphold "no one knows the day or hour"

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MattTooFor

Guest
#1
PreTrib is invalidated because it does not uphold "no one knows the day or hour"

One of the innumerable blindspots of PreTrib Rapture doctrine is that it has no place to fit in Jesus' flat declaration..."no one knows the day of the hour...but only the Father in heaven".

Since Jesus is quite clearly speaking to those who will find themselves INSIDE the events of the 70th Week...and more specifically, those who will find themselves inside the second half of the 70th Week...how is it possible these people would not know the "day or hour" when, in fact, the second half of the 70th Week lasts EXACTLY 1260 days?
 

88

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2016
3,517
77
48
#2
Re: PreTrib is invalidated because it does not uphold "no one knows the day or hour"

One of the innumerable blindspots of PreTrib Rapture doctrine is that it has no place to fit in Jesus' flat declaration..."no one knows the day of the hour...but only the Father in heaven".

Since Jesus is quite clearly speaking to those who will find themselves INSIDE the events of the 70th Week...and more specifically, those who will find themselves inside the second half of the 70th Week...how is it possible these people would not know the "day or hour" when, in fact, the second half of the 70th Week lasts EXACTLY 1260 days?
****you are correct---no one know the time of the Rapture----but once The Great Tribulation starts and certain events happen like the Abomination of Desolation---everything is on a time table to Christ's 2nd Coming----so this points to the fact there will be a Rapture----we will know the time of the 2nd coming based on events in The Great Tribulation...
 
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popeye

Guest
#3
Re: PreTrib is invalidated because it does not uphold "no one knows the day or hour"

i suppose your biggest obstacle is the fact we have yet to see the judgement,the AC,and the times of the gentiles fulfilled.

...but to you historicists,those are minor bumps in the road,correct?

Two witnesses?
the raptures in rev 14?

Historicist is way too far fetched.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
#4
Re: PreTrib is invalidated because it does not uphold "no one knows the day or hour"

One of the innumerable blindspots of PreTrib Rapture doctrine is that it has no place to fit in Jesus' flat declaration..."no one knows the day of the hour...but only the Father in heaven".

Since Jesus is quite clearly speaking to those who will find themselves INSIDE the events of the 70th Week...and more specifically, those who will find themselves inside the second half of the 70th Week...how is it possible these people would not know the "day or hour" when, in fact, the second half of the 70th Week lasts EXACTLY 1260 days?
hi MattTooFor,

so, I don't mean this to sound belittling of the subject in any way,

but how is this important? some folks spend lots of time discussing when the rapture takes place or what it's its like... I honestly don't understand why ?
 
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popeye

Guest
#5
Re: PreTrib is invalidated because it does not uphold "no one knows the day or hour"

hi MattTooFor,

so, I don't mean this to sound belittling of the subject in any way,

but how is this important? some folks spend lots of time discussing when the rapture takes place or what it's its like... I honestly don't understand why ?
The 5 wise virgins were also obsessed with meeting the groom.
 
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MattTooFor

Guest
#6
Re: PreTrib is invalidated because it does not uphold "no one knows the day or hour"

i suppose your biggest obstacle is the fact we have yet to see the judgement,the AC,and the times of the gentiles fulfilled.

...but to you historicists,those are minor bumps in the road,correct?

Two witnesses?
the raptures in rev 14?

Historicist is way too far fetched.
hi MattTooFor,

so, I don't mean this to sound belittling of the subject in any way,

but how is this important? some folks spend lots of time discussing when the rapture takes place or what it's its like... I honestly don't understand why ?
OK, you Prets need to take a chill pill and not stomp on the intended topic for this thread. Goood grief. Start your own thread, or something. I am interested in the specific topic I am introducing.
 
M

MattTooFor

Guest
#7
Re: PreTrib is invalidated because it does not uphold "no one knows the day or hour"

****you are correct---no one know the time of the Rapture
Wait a minute --you just made a leap:

The "no one knows the day or hour" is not referring to a "PreTrib rapture". Clearly, Jesus is referring to an event which comes AFTER the commencing of the 70th Week.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,162
2,380
113
#8
Re: PreTrib is invalidated because it does not uphold "no one knows the day or hour"

One of the innumerable blindspots of PreTrib Rapture doctrine is that it has no place to fit in Jesus' flat declaration..."no one knows the day of the hour...but only the Father in heaven".

Since Jesus is quite clearly speaking to those who will find themselves INSIDE the events of the 70th Week...and more specifically, those who will find themselves inside the second half of the 70th Week...how is it possible these people would not know the "day or hour" when, in fact, the second half of the 70th Week lasts EXACTLY 1260 days?
Greetings MattTooFor,

Your error is 1) not recognizing that the gathering of the church is a completely separate event vs. the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. And 2) you are not understanding that according to Rev.7:9-17, there will be another group, that is not the church, who will be on the earth during the time of God's wrath, which the elder referred to as the great tribulation saints who are Gentile believers. These are those who will be on the earth during that last seven years and who the beast will be given power over to conquer and to make war against. These are those who John sees and beheaded in Rev.20:4-6 because of their testimony for Christ and the word of God and who will not have worshiped the beast, his image nor received his mark. The church will have been gathered prior to the first seal being opened and His appearing to gather us is very near. In support of this, you will not find the word "Ekklesia" translated "church" anywhere after the end of Rev.3. The church is never mentioned within the narrative of God's wrath and that because we are not appointed to suffer God's wrath and that because Jesus already suffered it for all believers.
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
48
#9
Re: PreTrib is invalidated because it does not uphold "no one knows the day or hour"

One of the innumerable blindspots of PreTrib Rapture doctrine is that it has no place to fit in Jesus' flat declaration..."no one knows the day of the hour...but only the Father in heaven".

Since Jesus is quite clearly speaking to those who will find themselves INSIDE the events of the 70th Week...and more specifically, those who will find themselves inside the second half of the 70th Week...how is it possible these people would not know the "day or hour" when, in fact, the second half of the 70th Week lasts EXACTLY 1260 days?



I hope you are not betting you soul on that?????
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
48
#10
Re: PreTrib is invalidated because it does not uphold "no one knows the day or hour"

The 5 wise virgins were also obsessed with meeting the groom.

Yeah, and the 5 unwise virgins were also knew of His coming yet did not make preparations and watch for HIM> Guess what,,,,



They were left Behind.
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
48
#11
Re: PreTrib is invalidated because it does not uphold "no one knows the day or hour"

Wait a minute --you just made a leap:

The "no one knows the day or hour" is not referring to a "PreTrib rapture". Clearly, Jesus is referring to an event which comes AFTER the commencing of the 70th Week.
wrong again
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
#12
Re: PreTrib is invalidated because it does not uphold "no one knows the day or hour"

The 5 wise virgins were also obsessed with meeting the groom.
as I read the story, the five wise bridesmaids thought it was important to be prepared for no matter when the groom came.

so we also, ought to live in a way
that we're ready to meet Jesus, because I may die this minute, or not for fifty years.

myself, I can't think of a way that I would live differently if I changed to a different end times view.
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#13
Re: PreTrib is invalidated because it does not uphold "no one knows the day or hour"




I hope you are not betting you soul on that?????
Actually, I honestly believe many people are.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
#14
Re: PreTrib is invalidated because it does not uphold "no one knows the day or hour"

OK, you Prets need to take a chill pill and not stomp on the intended topic for this thread. Goood grief. Start your own thread, or something. I am interested in the specific topic I am introducing.
I don't know if I'm a preterist or not.

I saw that you had made several threads on similar topics, so I thought you would be eager to talk about why it was important to you.

my apologies.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
#15
Re: PreTrib is invalidated because it does not uphold "no one knows the day or hour"

One of the innumerable blindspots of PreTrib Rapture doctrine is that it has no place to fit in Jesus' flat declaration..."no one knows the day of the hour...but only the Father in heaven".

Since Jesus is quite clearly speaking to those who will find themselves INSIDE the events of the 70th Week...and more specifically, those who will find themselves inside the second half of the 70th Week...how is it possible these people would not know the "day or hour" when, in fact, the second half of the 70th Week lasts EXACTLY 1260 days?
He told them to watch as they would not know the day or the hour, but they could know when to flee:

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

Luke 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.


Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

They did not need to know the hour or the day - so this would seem to invalidate your argument.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#16
Re: PreTrib is invalidated because it does not uphold "no one knows the day or hour"

One of the innumerable blindspots of PreTrib Rapture doctrine is that it has no place to fit in Jesus' flat declaration..."no one knows the day of the hour...but only the Father in heaven".

Since Jesus is quite clearly speaking to those who will find themselves INSIDE the events of the 70th Week...and more specifically, those who will find themselves inside the second half of the 70th Week...how is it possible these people would not know the "day or hour" when, in fact, the second half of the 70th Week lasts EXACTLY 1260 days?
This makes no sense, it would actually VALIDATE pre-trib doctrine. Because if it is mid trib or post trib, We would KNOW the time of his coming (hour) Thus all which is left is pre-trib or Amill.. there are no other options.
 
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popeye

Guest
#17
Re: PreTrib is invalidated because it does not uphold "no one knows the day or hour"

OK, you Prets need to take a chill pill and not stomp on the intended topic for this thread. Goood grief. Start your own thread, or something. I am interested in the specific topic I am introducing.
Oh,sorry. Whood a thought my challenge in specific end times dynamics would be inappropriate in an end times thread.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#18
Re: PreTrib is invalidated because it does not uphold "no one knows the day or hour"

Ice Cream, ice Cream.....we have 90 flavors of ice cream...............I have been on the one side of the track and was raised in an imminent return church and had it crammed down my throat for about 21 years and even defended it dogmatically.....and the last 29 years studied the end........

The inconsistent use of Saints, the Elect and the farce that the church is not found past chapter whatever in Revelation have led to more errors and additions to the ice cream flavor menu......

and everyone is an expert for sure...........key word...EVERYONE!
 
M

mariner845

Guest
#19
Re: PreTrib is invalidated because it does not uphold "no one knows the day or hour"

A "day" and an "hour" are relatively short spans of time.

The best evidence supporting the Pre-Tribulation theory are the feast days. Moses was given 7 feast for the Israelite people to celebrate. They were Passover, Unleavened Bread, and First Fruits in the spring. Then the day of Pentecost in the summer. Then The Feast of Trumpets (rosh hashanah), Day of Atonement and Tabernacles in the fall.

Jesus was the Passover sacrifice on Passover

He was sinless in death on Unleavened Bread

Returned during First Fruits

He completed these On the days they were celebrated by the Jews

Then on the day of Pentecost the apostles received the holy ghost


If the pattern continues the next feast to be fulfilled is feast of trumpets. It was called the feast of trumpets because it required two eye witnesses to notify the high priest when they first saw the crescent moon visible. After which they would sound trumpets to notify they people the feast day had started.

Because it relied on the visibility of the moon - the sun, weather, strength of the eye witnesses vision. It could start anywhere over a two day period and was often referred to as "the feast of which no one knows the day or the hour that it will start". And it was brought in by the sound of trumpets.

You are free to interpret the scripture in your own way but i believe their is a strong case to be made fro Pre-Tribulation as the next feast day to be fulfilled with the Day of Atonement being fulfilled mid-tribulation and Tabernacles as the end of the Tribulation
 
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popeye

Guest
#20
Re: PreTrib is invalidated because it does not uphold "no one knows the day or hour"



Greetings MattTooFor,

Your error is 1) not recognizing that the gathering of the church is a completely separate event vs. the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. And 2) you are not understanding that according to Rev.7:9-17, there will be another group, that is not the church, who will be on the earth during the time of God's wrath, which the elder referred to as the great tribulation saints who are Gentile believers. These are those who will be on the earth during that last seven years and who the beast will be given power over to conquer and to make war against. These are those who John sees and beheaded in Rev.20:4-6 because of their testimony for Christ and the word of God and who will not have worshiped the beast, his image nor received his mark. The church will have been gathered prior to the first seal being opened and His appearing to gather us is very near. In support of this, you will not find the word "Ekklesia" translated "church" anywhere after the end of Rev.3. The church is never mentioned within the narrative of God's wrath and that because we are not appointed to suffer God's wrath and that because Jesus already suffered it for all believers.
According to the replies in this thread,he is looking for nonchallenging responses.