Some Observations and Lots of Questions !!!

Miri · Feb 21, 2017

Matt 6 v 5 - 13: thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven etc

Q1 Gods Will is done in heaven, who carries out that will in heaven.
What stops it from being carried out on earth?

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The kingdom has a key,

Matthew 16:18-19 NKJV
[18] And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and
the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give you the keys of the
kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and
whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

This suggests Peter was given a key and given the authority to open the door or close the door
to the Kingdom. I've seen commentaries which suggest preaching the gospel is like
opening the kingdom to others. But I wondered what your opinion was.

Q2 How much of the time does God use people to achieve His will on earth and
does this partly answer Q1 as well. Is that why we have to pray they will be done
on earth, as we are the answer to achieving that will.

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I have KJV with concordance and got this from it in regards to Matt 16.
Im no Greek scholar though but thought it may help a bit.

Strong's Definition
From G2808; a key (as shutting a lock) literally or figuratively: - key.
Thayer's Definition
a key
since the keeper of the keys has the power to open and to shut
metaph. in the NT to denote power and authority of various kinds.

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But according to this verse Jesus holds the key

Revelation 1:18 NKJV
[18] I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen.
And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.

Q3 I suppose my ultimate question is how do we unlock the kingdom, is it just when
we are saved or is there more meaning here. What does it mean to hold the keys to the
kingdom.

Locutus · Feb 21, 2017

There are various opinions on this - the Roman Catholics claim this authority has been handed down through Peter to them.

This from Adam Clarke's commentary (A methodist):

To this, therefore, do these words amount: When the time was come wherein the Mosaic law, as to some part of it, was to be abolished, and left off, and, as to another part of it, was to be continued and to last for ever, he granted Peter here, and to the rest of the apostles, Matthew 18:18, a power to abolish or confirm what they thought good, and as they thought good; being taught this, and led by the Holy Spirit: as if he should say, Whatsoever ye shall bind in the law of Moses, that is, forbid, it shall be forbidden, the Divine authority confirming it; and whatsoever ye shall loose, that is, permit, or shall teach that it is permitted and lawful, shall be lawful and permitted. Hence they bound, that is forbade, circumcision to the believers; eating of things offered to idols, of things strangled, and of blood, for a time, to the Gentiles; and that which they bound on earth was confirmed in heaven. They loosed, that is, allowed purification to Paul, and to four other brethren, for the shunning of scandal; Acts 21:24; and, in a word, by these words of Christ it was committed to them, the Holy Spirit directing, that they should make decrees concerning religion, as to the use or rejection of Mosaic rites and judgments, and that either for a time, or for ever.

Full text at:

https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/acc/matthew-16.html

Amazing-Grace · Feb 21, 2017

God is the authority in Heaven and on earth. His will be done on earth when He (Jesus) returns but all this is according to God's greater plan anyway so we could argue God's will is already being done "on earth as it is in Heaven".

Peter is oft depicted as being the guard on the gates of Heaven...whether or not the scripture is figuratively speaking or not is anyone's guess although it does read that Peter has some authority.

I believe that God uses the obedience of His people to further His plan all of the time.

Revelation 1:18 NKJV
"I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen.
And I have the keys of Hades and of Death." Jesus holds the key to Hell.

Salvation is our key to Heaven - the moment we become saved we are free to enter.

JMO Some day we will have all the answers, we will never fully know until the day our eyes are opened, for now we can only make assumptions.

Hizikyah · Feb 21, 2017

Miri said:

Yah has an army of malakim/messengers (angels) that do His will. Yah's will is going to be completed on earth, however man going astray from the will and path of Yah causes it to take longer, as Scripture says things will be held back untill the full number is fulfilled, that is the full number of those entering the Kingdom of Yah.

Psalm 103:19-21, "יהוה has established His throne in the heavens, And His reign shall rule over all. Bless יהוה, you His messengers, Mighty in power, who do His Word, Listening to the voice of His Word. Bless יהוה, all you His hosts, You His servants, who do His pleasure."

Psalm91:11, "For He commands His messengers concerning you, To guard you in all your ways."
Romans 11:25-26, For I do not wish you to be ignorant of this secret, brothers, lest you should be wise in your own estimation, that hardening in part has come over Yisra’yl, until the completeness of the gentiles has come in. And so all Yisra’yl shall be saved, as it has been written, “The Deliverer shall come out of Tsiyon, and He shall turn away wickedness from Ya‛aqoḇ."

Luk 21:24, “And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Yerushalayim shall be trampled underfoot by the gentiles until the times of the gentiles are filled."

Isaiah 17:6-7, “And gleaning grapes shall be left in it, like the shaking of an olive tree, two or three olives at the top of the uppermost branch, four or five in its most fruit-bearing branches,” declares יהוה the Strength of Yisra’yl. In that day man shall look to his Maker, and his eyes turn to the Set-apart One of Yisra’yl."

Isaiah 62:11-12, "See, יהוה has proclaimed to the end of the earth: “Say to the daughter of Tsiyon, ‘See, your deliverance has come; see, His reward is with Him, and His work before Him. And they shall be called, “The Set-apart People, the Redeemed of יהוה.” And you shall be called, “Sought Out, a City Not Forsaken.”

Hizikyah · Feb 21, 2017

Miri said:

This shows that He does indeed use and seek to use humans in His will:

Yirmeyahu/Jeremiah 13-1-10, “Thus יהוה said to me, “Go and get yourself a linen girdle, and put it on your loins, but do not put it in water. So I bought a girdle according to the word of יהוה, and put it on my loins. And the word of יהוה came to me the second time, saying, Take the girdle that you have bought, which is on your loins, and arise, go to the Euphrates, and hide it there in a hole in the rock.” And I went and hid it by the Euphrates, as יהוה commanded me. And it came to be after many days that יהוה said to me, “Arise, go to the Euphrates, and take from there the girdle which I commanded you to hide there. So I went to the Euphrates and dug, and I took the girdle from the place where I had hidden it. And there was the girdle, ruined. It was completely useless. And the word of יהוה came to me, saying, Thus said יהוה, ‘Thus I ruin the pride of Yehuḏah and the great pride of Yerushalayim. This evil people, who refuse to hear My Words, who walk in the stubbornness of their heart, and walk after other mighty ones to serve them and to bow themselves to them, is like this girdle which is completely useless.”

How much? Daily... other than that idk... and since we were given and still retain some level of dominion of the earth, certianly our prayers concerning it and it's inhabitants (that are Messiah's) are fruitful imo...

Acts 20:28, "Therefore, be on guard for yourselves and the whole flock over which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to feed the called out ones of YHWH, which Yahshua has purchased with His own blood."

Hizikyah · Feb 21, 2017

Miri said:

Keys are just a metaphor for the power or authority over something.

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of יהושעMessiah."

Revelation 14:12, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of Yah and the belief of יהושע.”

John/Yahanan 14:23, "Yahshua answered, and said to him: If a man loves Me, he will keep My teachings and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him."

Blain · Feb 21, 2017

Here is how I see it, God's will is always done in heaven and most of the time if not almost always he loves to use mankind to make his will on earth. Jesus holds the key and so do we because Jesus has made his home in us his light and his love flows through our veins.

If you look at it like chess man kind are the chess pieces and satan and God are the two players for whatever reason mankind is the key instrument to this story that was written before creation even began. This is why every prayer we pray matters even if we never see any results because that one prayer could for all we know unlock the chains on a persons heart, there is power and authority in God's words and voice and when Jesus handed the key to his kingdom he also handed over that power and authority.

Of course even knowing this I myself am far from ever realizing this for myself lol

RickyZ · Feb 21, 2017

A Sheriff holds enforcement authority over a land. But he doesn’t patrol the streets himself chasing down perps, he has deputies who go out into the land to enforce his authority. The deputies have no authority of their own, but are given charge to enforce that of the Sheriff.

It’s the same way with us. Jesus has authority, but He’s not back yet to enforce it. We are charged with enforcing Christ’s authority, but have none of our own. We are heaven’s deputies. It is up to us to put God’s power into play in this world.

For now J

Blain · Feb 21, 2017

RickyZ said:

A Sheriff holds enforcement authority over a land. But he doesn’t patrol the streets himself chasing down perps, he has deputies who go out into the land to enforce his authority. The deputies have no authority of their own, but are given charge to enforce that of the Sheriff.

It’s the same way with us. Jesus has authority, but He’s not back yet to enforce it. We are charged with enforcing Christ’s authority, but have none of our own. We are heaven’s deputies. It is up to us to put God’s power into play in this world.

For now J

Fantastic way of explaining it

Depleted · Feb 21, 2017

Miri said:

Q1 -- "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven." How is God's will done in heaven? By God. So how is it done on earth? By God. That doesn't seem so much like a plea to God as it does a statement about God. Just like "Our Father, who art in heaven" is a statement about God.

Q2 -- How much of the time does God do his will in heaven? Which part of his will there is done by angels vs. how much of it is done by him? How much should we be checking out how Gabriel is doing compared to Michael? I kind of have to go with... errr? Ummmm? I'm not going to ask them, because...
1. They're angels, so do it perfectly always.
2. They don't really have time to answer because they're too busy doing God's will.
3. Do they even care, since their entire being is to serve God?
4. Is there time in heaven?

If it's like that in heaven, what's the difference on earth other than God's got fallible creation to work with? And you being you and me being me, I can ask you this question knowing you won't take it as a snide comment, like many do on here. Honestly, Miri? You get, generally speaking, that you're doing God's will. And yet, look how life is anyway? Your aunt? You absolutely know she's like John. She should not be alive after all she's gone through, and yet she is. What percentage of that was good doctors? What percentage of that was healthcare workers? What percentage of that was her being her feisty ole self? What percentage of that is you being your feisty young self?

And, ultimately? What percentage of that was God?

The math isn't working out to 100%, is it? More like 150%-200%, right? And because 100% of that is God, but the others still factor in. Any bookkeeper keeping God's books surely has to come up with a completely different set of math problems than bookkeeping for a business or a person. Surely, right?

Q3 I think you already answered this question. The key literally is Jesus. He lets us play with them, but really they are his and him. The key is God. Which brings us back to all of Matt. 6:5-14. The Lord's prayer isn't a plead. It's a fact. We're just reminding ourselves who God is and what our reaction to that knowledge needs to be. God's already 100% in control; therefore the wise thing is to accept he is key.

(Wise thing. Not to be confused with the times we aren't wise.

)

Miri · Feb 21, 2017

Blain said:

Here is how I see it, God's will is always done in heaven and most of the time if not almost always he loves to use mankind to make his will on earth. Jesus holds the key and so do we because Jesus has made his home in us his light and his love flows through our veins.

If you look at it like chess man kind are the chess pieces and satan and God are the two players for whatever reason mankind is the key instrument to this story that was written before creation even began. This is why every prayer we pray matters even if we never see any results because that one prayer could for all we know unlock the chains on a persons heart, there is power and authority in God's words and voice and when Jesus handed the key to his kingdom he also handed over that power and authority.

Of course even knowing this I myself am far from ever realizing this for myself lol

Strangely enough I had a dream about a chess board a while back.
I don't think I've played chess since I was a kid.

Depleted · Feb 21, 2017

RickyZ said:

A Sheriff holds enforcement authority over a land. But he doesn’t patrol the streets himself chasing down perps, he has deputies who go out into the land to enforce his authority. The deputies have no authority of their own, but are given charge to enforce that of the Sheriff.

It’s the same way with us. Jesus has authority, but He’s not back yet to enforce it. We are charged with enforcing Christ’s authority, but have none of our own. We are heaven’s deputies. It is up to us to put God’s power into play in this world.

For now J

I'm picturing Andy Griffith as the sheriff and Barney Fife as the deputy. lol

Blain · Feb 21, 2017

Miri said:

I haven't played it since I was 14 and I like to play it but when people take soooo loooong to make a move and then their phone goes of and are texting every 3 minutes it takes that much longer

Miri · Feb 21, 2017

RickyZ said:

A Sheriff holds enforcement authority over a land. But he doesn’t patrol the streets himself chasing down perps, he has deputies who go out into the land to enforce his authority. The deputies have no authority of their own, but are given charge to enforce that of the Sheriff.

It’s the same way with us. Jesus has authority, but He’s not back yet to enforce it. We are charged with enforcing Christ’s authority, but have none of our own. We are heaven’s deputies. It is up to us to put God’s power into play in this world.

For now J

So if we are the deputies but are ineffective, then while we have the key, we
can't find the door.

Blain · Feb 21, 2017

Miri said:

I love analogies

Miri · Feb 21, 2017

Depleted said:

Q1 -- "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven." How is God's will done in heaven? By God. So how is it done on earth? By God. That doesn't seem so much like a plea to God as it does a statement about God. Just like "Our Father, who art in heaven" is a statement about God.

Q2 -- How much of the time does God do his will in heaven? Which part of his will there is done by angels vs. how much of it is done by him? How much should we be checking out how Gabriel is doing compared to Michael? I kind of have to go with... errr? Ummmm? I'm not going to ask them, because...
1. They're angels, so do it perfectly always.
2. They don't really have time to answer because they're too busy doing God's will.
3. Do they even care, since their entire being is to serve God?
4. Is there time in heaven?

If it's like that in heaven, what's the difference on earth other than God's got fallible creation to work with? And you being you and me being me, I can ask you this question knowing you won't take it as a snide comment, like many do on here. Honestly, Miri? You get, generally speaking, that you're doing God's will. And yet, look how life is anyway? Your aunt? You absolutely know she's like John. She should not be alive after all she's gone through, and yet she is. What percentage of that was good doctors? What percentage of that was healthcare workers? What percentage of that was her being her feisty ole self? What percentage of that is you being your feisty young self?

And, ultimately? What percentage of that was God?

The math isn't working out to 100%, is it? More like 150%-200%, right? And because 100% of that is God, but the others still factor in. Any bookkeeper keeping God's books surely has to come up with a completely different set of math problems than bookkeeping for a business or a person. Surely, right?

Q3 I think you already answered this question. The key literally is Jesus. He lets us play with them, but really they are his and him. The key is God. Which brings us back to all of Matt. 6:5-14. The Lord's prayer isn't a plead. It's a fact. We're just reminding ourselves who God is and what our reaction to that knowledge needs to be. God's already 100% in control; therefore the wise thing is to accept he is key.

(Wise thing. Not to be confused with the times we aren't wise.

)

Good answer 100% God.

At church on Sunday the sermon touched briefly on the keys to the kingdom but
it did not focus on this subject. It sort of caught my imagination a bit (I have a vivid
imagination!) and I was left wondering. If we in part have the keys to the kingdom,
why don't we use them, or maybe we do but in an inaffective way.

What are these keys, how can we use them more effectively. Does it matter anyway if
Jesus holds the keys etc. Is it all Jesus anyway.

Maybe its just me feeling really ineffective at the moment and frustrated in my
inaffectivemess. Lol

Desertsrose · Feb 21, 2017

Miri said:

Hi Miri,

I read a commentary on this quite a while back. I'll try to find it again.

The commentary said that Jesus was speaking to the twelve when He said He would give them the keys of the kingdom.

These twelve apostles were entrusted with the keys that unlock the door to heaven. God gave them the power to lead the rest of us into the truths of the gospel of the Kingdom of God.

There's a scripture where King David entrusted his key to a priest who wore it on his shoulder. It's kind of a symbolic act of what we see here.

The King of kings is entrusting His keys to His house with the apostles. They've been given this blessed honor and authority to the keys of the kingdom. They were given divine authority to begin sharing the gospel truths with mankind.

Just as Jesus taught them the Gospel of the Kingdom, so they were being sent out to teach others what Jesus taught them. And they were to help them to live the kingdom's truths.

Sin and the devil and his demons stop God's will from being done as much as is within their power.

I believe that the praying for thy kingdom come is praying for the fulfillment of what we're all looking forward to. Living in the true kingdom. Jesus return and will reign for 1000 years here on earth. So I believe that we're praying for the hastening of the return of Jesus when He sets up His kingdom in Jerusalem.

I believe that the gospel of the kingdom is already unlocked. We just need to obey the teachings of kingdom living now. The kingdom is within us. The kingdom is among us. He's within our hearts and we live out the kingdom now in a spiritual sense.

Blain · Feb 21, 2017

Miri said:

every word and every action has an effect like how a pebble falls into a pond and creates ripples so do our every word and action have the same effect, the thing is though we hardly ever see the ripples we make and almost always fail to see exactly how much those ripples expand and grow in the pond.

sometimes we use the key without even realizing that we have unlocked the door

RickyZ · Feb 21, 2017

Miri said:

Or, an ineffective deputy has the key, but doesn't use it.

popeye · Feb 21, 2017

RickyZ said:

Yes indeed

However,he did give us authority.

That is correctly taught in hyperfaith. WOF

which i am not a part of,but will await the utter freak out,panic,and misrepresentations of myself and wof.

Which I am not a part of but once was and happen to do my own study,so know what they teach correctly and incorrectly.

Would say more,but that should be enough to start a small riot.

Some Observations and Lots of Questions !!!

Miri

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