How does the bible view killing in what might be called "self defense". An example might be if Jesus was living in modern times and someone broke into his house what might he do. From what i have read he might say take what you need and have a good one, but some passages of the bible make me think god is ok with killing in self defense. Curious what everyone's thoughts are on this subject.
Self defense and protection
- Thread starter chickenkiller
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Solomon...There is a time to kill and a time to heal....
The Jews were allowed to protect themselves by Decree from Xerxes in Persia (Esther) and NOT one Jew lost their life...
NO ONE will ever convince me that lethal force is not a biblical option when defending one's life against a deceitful and bloody man...
For example...If a man looks up and sees a little girl being raped an or murdered by a violent Muslim terrorist....any man (believer or not) that would not intervene in a lethal manner to defend that little girl is worthless and needs a bullet....
It is one thing to give one's life for the cause of Christ....it is a whole other ball game to defend your loved ones or friends or another believer against being murdered or raped by some criminalistic thug!
The Jews were allowed to protect themselves by Decree from Xerxes in Persia (Esther) and NOT one Jew lost their life...
NO ONE will ever convince me that lethal force is not a biblical option when defending one's life against a deceitful and bloody man...
For example...If a man looks up and sees a little girl being raped an or murdered by a violent Muslim terrorist....any man (believer or not) that would not intervene in a lethal manner to defend that little girl is worthless and needs a bullet....
It is one thing to give one's life for the cause of Christ....it is a whole other ball game to defend your loved ones or friends or another believer against being murdered or raped by some criminalistic thug!
I assumed you would feel that way. Ive always been able to defend myself without using a gun. In battle my mind is as sharp as any knife you will find.
Im curious more of what the bible says though. Ive always thought/assumed that Jesus would not kill under any circumstances. But god seems a bit more open to the idea.
Im curious more of what the bible says though. Ive always thought/assumed that Jesus would not kill under any circumstances. But god seems a bit more open to the idea.
I gave you two scriptural references.....and then my view.....and scattered throughout the bible are others....
?????????? What's the issue??????????
Solomon...There is a time to kill and a time to heal....
The Jews were allowed to protect themselves by Decree from Xerxes in Persia (Esther) and NOT one Jew lost their life...
?????????? What's the issue??????????
Solomon...There is a time to kill and a time to heal....
The Jews were allowed to protect themselves by Decree from Xerxes in Persia (Esther) and NOT one Jew lost their life...
R
I don't know the answer for sure. It's something I debate with myself on often. However, here are some verses and thoughts on them:
While killing should be avoided whenever possible (ex. sometimes it might be possible to merely wound in self-defense), the Bible does have several passages where self-defense is justifiable.
Exodus 21:12-13 discusses cities of refuge, "He who strikes a man so that he dies shall surely be but to death. However, if he did not lie in wait, but God delivered him into his hand, then I will appoint for you a place where he may flee."
People who fled to cities of refuge would still have to be tried, but the jury would decide whether or not he/she could be said to have committed murder. This isn't talking specifically about self-defense, but about how premeditated murder is very different from accidental. Clearly, if someone kills someone in self-defense it wouldn't be premeditated, so it would not be viewed the same way as murder.
Furthermore, Exodus 22:2 states the following: "If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed. If the sun has risen on him, there shall be guilt for his bloodshed."
Presumably the difference in it being night or day is that during the daytime, people would be around if one called for help. The Israelites were still wandering through the desert, so people would be walking around outside in the daytime and hear if someone called for help. However, at night, people would be asleep and help was uncertain. I think this passage is important because it shows that killing should be avoided whenever necessary (if one can get help from others). However, if killing in self-defense is the only way, the killing isn't condemned.
The Israelites were attacked several times during the Old Testament and often they fought back, yet God supported them. However, when David wanted to build a temple, the reason He wasn't allowed was because the Lord said David had shed too much blood. Even though God commanded many of the wars David waged, the bloodshed enough was a reason God wouldn't let David build a temple for God. Clearly, any killing, regardless of how justifiable it is (and David had a pretty good reason to call it justified if God commanded or aided him in the wars) should never be taken lightly.
Proverbs 24:11 says, "Rescue those who are being taken away to death; hold back those who are stumbling to the slaughter."
Psalm 82:4 Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked.”
Surely if someone was attacking another and we passed by, defending the person being attacked might require violence, but wouldn't we be called to do so? Now, if we can defend others, if we're in trouble shouldn't we be allowed to defend ourselves? What if we were perfectly capable of defending ourselves but didn't and decided we needed to wait for someone to defend us because self-defense wasn't okay but defense of others was. Well, if someone else came along and tried to defend us, the other person could get hurt as well.
Now, Jesus does say, "But I tell you not to resists an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also." Matthew 5:39. However, a slap is a far cry from someone trying to kill one.
In Luke 22: And He said to them, “When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.” He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one. For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors.’ For what is written about me has its fulfillment.” And they said, “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” And He said to them, "It is enough.”
Clearly Jesus foresaw a time where swords might be needed and advised carrying them.
Now, I'm far from certain. However, I think self-defense is okay as long as you try to keep it to whatever is necessary. For instance, if someone is stealing something from you, allow him/her to steal if it's a choice between an object and someone's life. Maybe you can hit the person's hand away or call the police, but don't use lethal force for material objects. If someone is attacking you or someone else, fight back until you or the other person are safe, but don't kill unless absolutely necessary, and if it's possible to call for help without fighting back (or even get help and therefore be able to subdue a person with less injury to the other), choose the least violent option. But never be quick to injure or kill another. It should be a last resort.
While killing should be avoided whenever possible (ex. sometimes it might be possible to merely wound in self-defense), the Bible does have several passages where self-defense is justifiable.
Exodus 21:12-13 discusses cities of refuge, "He who strikes a man so that he dies shall surely be but to death. However, if he did not lie in wait, but God delivered him into his hand, then I will appoint for you a place where he may flee."
People who fled to cities of refuge would still have to be tried, but the jury would decide whether or not he/she could be said to have committed murder. This isn't talking specifically about self-defense, but about how premeditated murder is very different from accidental. Clearly, if someone kills someone in self-defense it wouldn't be premeditated, so it would not be viewed the same way as murder.
Furthermore, Exodus 22:2 states the following: "If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed. If the sun has risen on him, there shall be guilt for his bloodshed."
Presumably the difference in it being night or day is that during the daytime, people would be around if one called for help. The Israelites were still wandering through the desert, so people would be walking around outside in the daytime and hear if someone called for help. However, at night, people would be asleep and help was uncertain. I think this passage is important because it shows that killing should be avoided whenever necessary (if one can get help from others). However, if killing in self-defense is the only way, the killing isn't condemned.
The Israelites were attacked several times during the Old Testament and often they fought back, yet God supported them. However, when David wanted to build a temple, the reason He wasn't allowed was because the Lord said David had shed too much blood. Even though God commanded many of the wars David waged, the bloodshed enough was a reason God wouldn't let David build a temple for God. Clearly, any killing, regardless of how justifiable it is (and David had a pretty good reason to call it justified if God commanded or aided him in the wars) should never be taken lightly.
Proverbs 24:11 says, "Rescue those who are being taken away to death; hold back those who are stumbling to the slaughter."
Psalm 82:4 Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked.”
Surely if someone was attacking another and we passed by, defending the person being attacked might require violence, but wouldn't we be called to do so? Now, if we can defend others, if we're in trouble shouldn't we be allowed to defend ourselves? What if we were perfectly capable of defending ourselves but didn't and decided we needed to wait for someone to defend us because self-defense wasn't okay but defense of others was. Well, if someone else came along and tried to defend us, the other person could get hurt as well.
Now, Jesus does say, "But I tell you not to resists an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also." Matthew 5:39. However, a slap is a far cry from someone trying to kill one.
In Luke 22: And He said to them, “When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.” He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one. For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors.’ For what is written about me has its fulfillment.” And they said, “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” And He said to them, "It is enough.”
Clearly Jesus foresaw a time where swords might be needed and advised carrying them.
Now, I'm far from certain. However, I think self-defense is okay as long as you try to keep it to whatever is necessary. For instance, if someone is stealing something from you, allow him/her to steal if it's a choice between an object and someone's life. Maybe you can hit the person's hand away or call the police, but don't use lethal force for material objects. If someone is attacking you or someone else, fight back until you or the other person are safe, but don't kill unless absolutely necessary, and if it's possible to call for help without fighting back (or even get help and therefore be able to subdue a person with less injury to the other), choose the least violent option. But never be quick to injure or kill another. It should be a last resort.
I'm blessed to live in a great neighborhood, but sadly, two days ago a woman was raped two blocks from me -- a street where I often walk my dogs. Crimes like this happen once every ten years in my town.
My neighbors know I have their back, and, though I pray God will always bless me by never placing me in a situation where I have to take someone's life, believe me, I'd kill a perpetrator like that in a New York minute without apologies or remorse. We have the God-given right and responsibility to protect ourselves and innocent people at all times.
My neighbors know I have their back, and, though I pray God will always bless me by never placing me in a situation where I have to take someone's life, believe me, I'd kill a perpetrator like that in a New York minute without apologies or remorse. We have the God-given right and responsibility to protect ourselves and innocent people at all times.
I think it is unique to each circumstance.....if someone comes up and slaps you...Jesus said, turn the other cheek.....if one comes up and attempts to cut your throat you defend yourself....
Again...Solomon said there was a time to kill.....we cannot alleviate the facts of the first post....GOD moves the hearts of men...the law of the MEDES and PERSIANs could not be reversed once it was given....GOD allowed the circumstance to arise that ALLOWED the JEWS to defend themselves and NOT one perished.....
Knowing the righteous indignation of God I cannot imagine on any level Jesus expecting anyone to allow the death of an innocent person if the ability to stop it is available.....
Again...Solomon said there was a time to kill.....we cannot alleviate the facts of the first post....GOD moves the hearts of men...the law of the MEDES and PERSIANs could not be reversed once it was given....GOD allowed the circumstance to arise that ALLOWED the JEWS to defend themselves and NOT one perished.....
Knowing the righteous indignation of God I cannot imagine on any level Jesus expecting anyone to allow the death of an innocent person if the ability to stop it is available.....
After reading some of these comments I am really glad I don't feel the same way you do about murder. To kill someone for breaking into my house is not something I would even consider. But I can also defend myself without needing guns so i do have that advantage.
Speaking about rape or an attack on another person is always tricky. I would avoid murder at all costs, but a person cannot always control themselves in the heat of battle. Its possible to do enough damage to a human where they might wish they were dead.
Speaking about rape or an attack on another person is always tricky. I would avoid murder at all costs, but a person cannot always control themselves in the heat of battle. Its possible to do enough damage to a human where they might wish they were dead.