some things from paul that many omit

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Jun 1, 2016
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#1
titus 1:16 "They PROFESS that they know God; but IN WORKS THEY DENY HIM, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every GOOD WORK REPROBATE."


Titus 2:11-14 "For the GRACE OF GOD that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, TEACHING US that, DENYING UNGODLINESS and WORLDLY LUSTS, we should live SOBERLY, RIGHTEOUSLY, and GODLY, IN THIS PRESENT WORLD; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; WHO GAVE HIMSELF FOR US, THAT HE MIGHT REDEEM US FROM ALL INIQUITY, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of GOOD WORKS."


Titus 3:8 "This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou AFFIRM CONSTANTLY, that THEY WICH HAVE BELIEVED IN GOD MIGHT BE CAREFUL TO MANTAIN GOOD WORKS. These things are good and profitable unto men."


a consistant part of pauls ministry that many people deny, or insist " thats not really what hes saying" Pauls ministry wasnt different in principles such as repentance of sin , what paul often refers to as " Works of the flesh" and we Know He is talking about sinful actions and attitudes because of scripture in His letters like this


Galatians 5:19-21 "Now THE WORKS OF THE FLESH ARE MANIFEST, which are THESE; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. "




This really is not even debatable if a person accepts the scripture, certainly this is not all of pauls doctrine, but makes very clear things many deny. that those who continue on in sinful lives, doing these types of things, will not inherit the Kingdom of God, and when paul is saying " works of the flesh" He is absolutely talking about our conduct.




romans 16 :25-26 "Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the SCRIPTURES OF THE PROPHETS, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, MADE KNOWN TO ALL NATIONS FOR THE OBEDIENCE OF FAITH"


The reason The gospel was given to all nations, is to bring them into obedience, not to exclude believers from Obedience and accountability. That idea is not from God. What we do, matters greatly In Christ.
 
J

JustWhoIAm

Guest
#2
titus 1:16 "They PROFESS that they know God; but IN WORKS THEY DENY HIM, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every GOOD WORK REPROBATE."


Titus 2:11-14 "For the GRACE OF GOD that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, TEACHING US that, DENYING UNGODLINESS and WORLDLY LUSTS, we should live SOBERLY, RIGHTEOUSLY, and GODLY, IN THIS PRESENT WORLD; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; WHO GAVE HIMSELF FOR US, THAT HE MIGHT REDEEM US FROM ALL INIQUITY, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of GOOD WORKS."


Titus 3:8 "This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou AFFIRM CONSTANTLY, that THEY WICH HAVE BELIEVED IN GOD MIGHT BE CAREFUL TO MANTAIN GOOD WORKS. These things are good and profitable unto men."


a consistant part of pauls ministry that many people deny, or insist " thats not really what hes saying" Pauls ministry wasnt different in principles such as repentance of sin , what paul often refers to as " Works of the flesh" and we Know He is talking about sinful actions and attitudes because of scripture in His letters like this


Galatians 5:19-21 "Now THE WORKS OF THE FLESH ARE MANIFEST, which are THESE; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. "




This really is not even debatable if a person accepts the scripture, certainly this is not all of pauls doctrine, but makes very clear things many deny. that those who continue on in sinful lives, doing these types of things, will not inherit the Kingdom of God, and when paul is saying " works of the flesh" He is absolutely talking about our conduct.




romans 16 :25-26 "Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the SCRIPTURES OF THE PROPHETS, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, MADE KNOWN TO ALL NATIONS FOR THE OBEDIENCE OF FAITH"


The reason The gospel was given to all nations, is to bring them into obedience, not to exclude believers from Obedience and accountability. That idea is not from God. What we do, matters greatly In Christ.
Yes, well, it is very advisable that one at least tries to hold up their end of the bargain ^^
 
W

willybob

Guest
#3
Very True followjesus.....I might add that the penal substitution gospel was created during the reformation building upon Thomas Aquinas satisfaction atonement theory...Luther, Calvin and others invented the magical transfer all the while not understanding that virtue is NEVER transferred anywhere in the entire bible....It has blinded many for 500 years.. High level freemason Billy Graham perfected the lie in the mid 20th century and has deceived 100s of millions. It was designed to promise them liberty while still in your sins...Its is very blatant in Martin Luther's own writings...I will post some of his quotes when I get back to my other computer notes....Most will be amazed at what he actually believed about sin...

The TRUTH of conditional covenant theology is all but forgotten for magic transfers and covers......Knowing this first; there is NO payment for sin, a debt paid for can in no wise be forgiven......In truth Jesus was our propitiation (mercy seat of God) for our sin, thus purchasing our souls at Calvary....Big difference......

The satisfaction atonement theory is heresy, what really took place at Calvary is that Jesus justified God's mercy that He always wanted to extend to everyone.....He NEVER in any way satisfied God's wrath, that is a lie from the pit of hell, but rather He suffered at the hands of wicked men, therefore the wrath of God still abides on the children of disobedience.....Jesus in no way was a son of disobedience but rather a sweet smelling VOLUNTARY sacrifice to God the Father ON our behalf....
 
Jun 1, 2016
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#4
Yes, well, it is very advisable that one at least tries to hold up their end of the bargain ^^
Yep. The free gift, didnt come without a price, and when God give the most valuable thing in Heaven and earth to save us from certain eternal fire...we Owe God Our Lives. Gotta put your life into Christ.

2 corinthians 5:14-15 "For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15And that he died for all, that they which live should NOT HENCEFORTH LIVE UNTO THEMSELVES, but unto him which died for them, and rose again."

"saved by Grace through Faith....long before pauls ministry

Genesis 6:8 "But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD."

Genesis 6:13-
And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth. 14Make thee an ark of gopher wood; ( detailed instructions for noahs salvation)......v22 Thus DID NOAH; according to all that God COMMANDED HIM, SO DID HE"

God has always been saving man by Grace and through Faith.....Christs death is for the forgiveness of those things behind us in a life, and His teachings are for forgiveness ahead.
 
W

willybob

Guest
#5
Jesus works came at a great sacrifice, cost of His life, but He paid the price of sin for no one, but rather HE became the mercy seat of God (propitiation for sin) on our behalf that we might be reconciled back to God's favour through His atoning blood....
 
Jun 1, 2016
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#6
Very True followjesus.....I might add that the penal substitution gospel was created during the reformation building upon Thomas Aquinas satisfaction atonement theory...Luther, Calvin and others invented the magical transfer all the while not understanding that virtue is NEVER transferred anywhere in the entire bible....It has blinded many for 500 years.. High level freemason Billy Graham perfected the lie in the mid 20th century and has deceived 100s of millions. It was designed to promise them liberty while still in your sins...Its is very blatant in Martin Luther's own writings...I will post some of his quotes when I get back to my other computer notes....Most will be amazed at what he actually believed about sin...

The TRUTH of conditional covenant theology is all but forgotten for magic transfers and covers......Knowing this first; there is NO payment for sin, a debt paid for can in no wise be forgiven......In truth Jesus was our propitiation (mercy seat of God) for our sin, thus purchasing our souls at Calvary....Big difference......

The satisfaction atonement theory is heresy, what really took place at Calvary is that Jesus justified God's mercy that He always wanted to extend to everyone.....He NEVER in any way satisfied God's wrath, that is a lie from the pit of hell, but rather He suffered at the hands of wicked men, therefore the wrath of God still abides on the children of disobedience.....Jesus in no way was a son of disobedience but rather a sweet smelling VOLUNTARY sacrifice to God the Father ON our behalf....
He NEVER in any way satisfied God's wrath, that is a lie from the pit of hell, but rather He suffered at the hands of wicked men, therefore the wrath of God still abides on the children of disobedience.....Jesus in no way was a son of disobedience but rather a sweet smelling VOLUNTARY sacrifice to God the Father ON our behalf....

He did infact satisfy the wrath for sins behind, and His doctrine is our Life and forgiveness when we fail, and we do fail even a mature believer at times...the thing is though, Jesus knew this and provided for it, for those who walk after Him.

romans 3:25 -26 "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of SINS THAT ARE PASSED, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus."

and again

Hebrews 9:15-16 "And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that BY MEANS OF DEATH, for the redemption of the transgressions that were UNDER THE FIRST TESTAMENT, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator."

so He did infact bring us reconciliation, took our place in the death decreed to sinners in the Law, but absolutely the wrath of the Lamb is to be fulfiled upon those who reject the most valuable Gift in mankinds history....Jesus means a new start for a world that was condemned under the Holy Law, because of our sins, His death wipes that clean, given the person repents of sin and walks in Faith as did Moses, abraham, david, all the apostles ect...the forgiveness Now is in the new testament. He fulfiled the old with His death, the new is found in the testament of Jesus, which took effect at His death.( hebrews 9:15-16)

Forgiveness now is this

matthew 6:14-15 "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

Christians follow Jesus, because He died for our forgiveness, and He is the One who kept saying " If you Love me, obey my commands...." We gotta take the One who dieds words to heart, thats the answer for everyone seeking God, hear , believe, learn from and most importantly Obey God and He will never Lead us astray. the old sinner sees the commands as something "not for them" a person who has accepted the Grace of God, will learn to Love Gods commandments and follow them.
 
Jun 1, 2016
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#7
Jesus works came at a great sacrifice, cost of His life, but He paid the price of sin for no one, but rather HE became the mercy seat of God (propitiation for sin) on our behalf that we might be reconciled back to God's favour through His atoning blood....
actually yes He did pay the price for our sins, Just not as people distort it. His death fulfilled the Law, the law is full of decrees against sinners, Jesus died for those things that are behind us, thats why the first step is repentance. forgiveness in Christ is matthew 6:14-15, a totally different method of forgivness that sacrificing a perfect animal and gaining forgiveness according to the mosaic Law. forgiving others is found in the law, but it is not the means of forgiveness under the law, in Christ it is. " Mercy, not sacrifice"

Judge not and you wil not be judged, be merciful and you will receive mercy, forgive and you will be forgiven.....<<<the gospel principles are the Kingdom of God. Jesus paid for our lives behind us, and in His words provies for our lives ahead...its as simple as james 1:22-25 "But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. 23For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: 24For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. 25But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed."


Jesus died for us, because all of us have sinned beforehand, before we understand were already condemned, He suffered that condemnation, and Gave us a better way, a way that brings Life rather than death.
 
W

willybob

Guest
#8
Gods wrath was never dispensed upon Jesus. It was Martin Luther that perfected that lie built on the Catholic theologian of the 13th century Thomas Aquinas a student of Plato....God is just, His wrath is only upon the wicked. Jesus said to Peter; put your sword away, think not that my Father would not sent legions of angels to fight and deliver me if I ask Him? Would God send legions of angels to fight for someone he seeks to pour out His wrath upon?....No, Jesus gave Himself over willfully to suffer at the hands of wicked men, but He didn't have to. By doing this great act of love He JUSTIFIED GODS MERCY that He always intended to dispense upon mankind. (mercy triumphs over condemnation)..... The Father could not extend His merciful apart from Jesus voluntary sacrifice of love on our behalf. NOWHERE in scripture does God execute wrath upon the innocent...The foreshadowing lambs on the day of atonement in the Old Test. were blameless and spotless.....Peter said Jesus was a blameless spotless sin offering...
be blessed always, willybob
 
W

willybob

Guest
#9
Luther the father of the penal substitution atonement and faith alone heresies He said Jesus became the greatest sinner of all time> So he some how believed that sin would overcome sin? However my bible tells me Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today, and forever..

Here is why in this quote below: so he could continue in sin and not surely die...same lie as the garden, nothing has changed. This he invented the heresy of faith alone

"Your sin cannot cast you into hell" "No sin can harm me"
"Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly for he is victorious over sin, death, and the world. As long as we are here in this world we have to sin. This life is not a dwelling place of righteousness"

"No sin will separate us from the lamb, even though we commit fornication and murder a thousand times a day."


"Whenever the devil harasses you, seek the company of men or drink more, or joke and talk nonsense, or do some other merry thing. Sometimes we must drink more, sport, recreate ourselves, and even sin a little to spite the devil, so that we leave him no place for troubling our consciences with trifles. We are conquered if we try too conscientiously not to sin at all. So when the devil says to you: do not drink, answer him: I will drink, and right freely, just because you tell me not to."

"The imputation of righteousness we need very much, because we are far from perfect. As long as we have this body, sin will dwell in our flesh. Then, too, we sometimes drive away the Holy Spirit; we fall into sin, like Peter, David, and other holy men. Nevertheless we may always take recourse to this fact, that our sins are covered, and that God will not lay them to our charge. Sin is not held against us for Christ's sake."


(he actually perceived that it was the devil accusing him of sin because his conscience was seared)

Luther also believed in the Reformation lie that God wills everything both good and evil..
“God effects and moves and implements all things in a necessary infallible course”
“This is the highest degree of faith-to believe that e is merciful, the very One who saves so few and damns so many. To believe that He is just, the One who is according to His own will, also makes us necessarily damnable”

Here are some thoughts from his heartabout the Anabaptist and the Jews
Martin Luther signed a paper in 1536 that agreed that preachers who questioned basic Christian doctrines and continued to do so under penalty of death, ought to be executed by the state.(11) Regarding the Jews, Martin Luther advised that all their prayer books were to be taken from them and Jewish rabbis were forbidden to teach on pain of loss of life and limb.

"The Jews deserve to be hanged on gallows, seven times higher than ordinary thieves"

"We ought to take revenge on the Jews and kill them."

"The blind Jews are truly stupid fools"

"Now just behold these miserable, blind, and senseless people."

"eject them forever from this country"

"they are nothing but thieves and robbers"

"What then shall we do with this damned, rejected race of Jews?"

"Such a desperate, thoroughly evil, poisonous, and devilish lot are these Jews"

"They are the real liars and bloodhounds"

"We are at fault for not slaying them."

"I shall give you my sincere advice: first to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them."

"Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed."

"Fifth, I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews."

"Burn down their synagogues, forbid all that I enumerated earlier, force them to work, and deal harshly with them"

"If this does not help we must drive them out like mad dogs"

"If I had to baptize a Jew, I would take him to the river Elbe, hang a stone around his neck and push him over with the words `I baptize thee in the name of Abraham'."

Martin Luther (1483-1546) “His attitude towards the Anabaptists and Jews was formed by a succession of progressiveness as he turned from tolerant by way of banishment to the death penalty for sedition. Luther told the princes and the nobility while referencing the peasants who he understood as being ignorant, rude, or unsophisticated person; a person of low social status, that it was lawful and just to slay at the first opportunity a rebellious person, "just as one must slay a mad dog…Let all who are able, cut them down, slaughter and stab them, openly or in secret, and remember that there is nothing more poisonous, noxious and utterly devilish than a rebel... For we are come
upon such strange times that a prince may more easily win heaven by the shedding of blood than others by prayers
."
Keep in mind this man is hailed even today as a great man of the Christian faith. Luther and Calvin’s faith was the complete opposite of William Tyndale.

Martyrs Mirror: A Christian Book of Martyr Stories


And people trust this mans faith alone theology?
 
Jun 1, 2016
5,032
121
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#10
Luther the father of the penal substitution atonement and faith alone heresies He said Jesus became the greatest sinner of all time> So he some how believed that sin would overcome sin? However my bible tells me Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today, and forever..

Here is why in this quote below: so he could continue in sin and not surely die...same lie as the garden, nothing has changed. This he invented the heresy of faith alone

"Your sin cannot cast you into hell" "No sin can harm me"
"Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly for he is victorious over sin, death, and the world. As long as we are here in this world we have to sin. This life is not a dwelling place of righteousness"

"No sin will separate us from the lamb, even though we commit fornication and murder a thousand times a day."


"Whenever the devil harasses you, seek the company of men or drink more, or joke and talk nonsense, or do some other merry thing. Sometimes we must drink more, sport, recreate ourselves, and even sin a little to spite the devil, so that we leave him no place for troubling our consciences with trifles. We are conquered if we try too conscientiously not to sin at all. So when the devil says to you: do not drink, answer him: I will drink, and right freely, just because you tell me not to."

"The imputation of righteousness we need very much, because we are far from perfect. As long as we have this body, sin will dwell in our flesh. Then, too, we sometimes drive away the Holy Spirit; we fall into sin, like Peter, David, and other holy men. Nevertheless we may always take recourse to this fact, that our sins are covered, and that God will not lay them to our charge. Sin is not held against us for Christ's sake."


(he actually perceived that it was the devil accusing him of sin because his conscience was seared)

Luther also believed in the Reformation lie that God wills everything both good and evil..
“God effects and moves and implements all things in a necessary infallible course”
“This is the highest degree of faith-to believe that e is merciful, the very One who saves so few and damns so many. To believe that He is just, the One who is according to His own will, also makes us necessarily damnable”

Here are some thoughts from his heartabout the Anabaptist and the Jews
Martin Luther signed a paper in 1536 that agreed that preachers who questioned basic Christian doctrines and continued to do so under penalty of death, ought to be executed by the state.(11) Regarding the Jews, Martin Luther advised that all their prayer books were to be taken from them and Jewish rabbis were forbidden to teach on pain of loss of life and limb.

"The Jews deserve to be hanged on gallows, seven times higher than ordinary thieves"

"We ought to take revenge on the Jews and kill them."

"The blind Jews are truly stupid fools"

"Now just behold these miserable, blind, and senseless people."

"eject them forever from this country"

"they are nothing but thieves and robbers"

"What then shall we do with this damned, rejected race of Jews?"

"Such a desperate, thoroughly evil, poisonous, and devilish lot are these Jews"

"They are the real liars and bloodhounds"

"We are at fault for not slaying them."

"I shall give you my sincere advice: first to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them."

"Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed."

"Fifth, I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews."

"Burn down their synagogues, forbid all that I enumerated earlier, force them to work, and deal harshly with them"

"If this does not help we must drive them out like mad dogs"

"If I had to baptize a Jew, I would take him to the river Elbe, hang a stone around his neck and push him over with the words `I baptize thee in the name of Abraham'."

Martin Luther (1483-1546) “His attitude towards the Anabaptists and Jews was formed by a succession of progressiveness as he turned from tolerant by way of banishment to the death penalty for sedition. Luther told the princes and the nobility while referencing the peasants who he understood as being ignorant, rude, or unsophisticated person; a person of low social status, that it was lawful and just to slay at the first opportunity a rebellious person, "just as one must slay a mad dog…Let all who are able, cut them down, slaughter and stab them, openly or in secret, and remember that there is nothing more poisonous, noxious and utterly devilish than a rebel... For we are come
upon such strange times that a prince may more easily win heaven by the shedding of blood than others by prayers
."
Keep in mind this man is hailed even today as a great man of the Christian faith. Luther and Calvin’s faith was the complete opposite of William Tyndale.

Martyrs Mirror: A Christian Book of Martyr Stories


And people trust this mans faith alone theology?
I havent studied theology, martin luther ect....Ive studied the Bible for close to 30 years though and what i find is That the term Faith is not grasped. Faith is Hearing Gods word, and obeying Him because you believe Him. <<<thats the faith that justifies. The difference is that beforehand, if you werent born to a jewish mother or if you didnt convert to judaism, you were excluded by the mosaic Law. "Faith alone" is not taught as it is written, people equate faith to " if i call Jesus Lord, i have faith" thats no different than the demons that called out " Jesus , son of the most High what do you want with us? Have you come to torture us before the appointed time?"

The demons Knew Jesus was the Son of God Most High, and always recognized His authority, what they did was obeyed the evil one rather than Jesus. Faith is not Just calling Jesus Lord, even Knowing that He died for the remission of sin....Faith leads to repentance and obedience. its the same with the term "Grace" we take that term, define it as " unwarranted favor" and then false doctrines spin from that into all of the fallacies we have in the church. Like " you dont have to stop sinning, or if you think you have to obey God...you have fallen from Grace" its the mis defining of the terms. faith has become an empty acknowledgement because of scriptures plucked from paul, or even the gospel. 1 or two verses amidst a whole message.

Faith is defined in hebrews 11 and in some of those examples we fins the hier to righteousness by Faith.

Noah HEBREWS 11:7"By FAITH NOAH, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, MOVED WITH FEAR, PREPARED AN ARK to the SAVING of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of THE RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT IS BY FAITH."

so then as james says clearly " faith without works is dead" If you believe in someone and they tell you they buried 1,000,000 in your back yard, and you need money and they give you a map......if there is faith, you will gladly follow the map and dig up the cash." on the other hand if you just say " i believe its there.but im not gonna make any effort to actually follow the map...and im certainly not gonna dig"....there simply is no faith because faith is the evidence and substance of things unseen.

When God told noah im going to destroy the earth, you build an ark like im telling you and you will be saved...Noah believed God, therefore Noah started building. that is "righteousness that is by Faith" very clearly set forth in Hebrews 11:7. Had noah said " I believe you Lord, but im not gonna build the ark...Noah would have perished as well because He didnt obey the Lord who told Him the truth. Same thing with Jesus, Jesus came to tell the world the truth from God, and then die to wipe our ledger clean, equip us with all we need for righteousness......People who claim faith alone....are right, yet they need to learn what righteousness that is by Faith" really is. it is to Hear and believe God, and therefore do because of belief. We know have motivation because God sent His one and only begotten Son, to suffer and die on Our behalf as our atonement sacrifice. so the Blood of Jesus motivates, but faith is not an inward belief that assures us if salvation regardless of actions....its the thing in us that really believes Gods word above what is seen Like noah did.

Faith has been distorted by the enemy Just like eden. Faith keeps them from the fruit because they believe God, doubt however Leads to sin. If i believe God said " i dont have to repent...i never will" If i learn what God has said to christians through His Son.....and believe what He says it will lead me to obedience because that is what He teaches consistantly, and by Faith we follow Jesus.
 
W

willybob

Guest
#11
Continue the examination of Luther's doctrine

"The imputation of righteousness we need very much, because we are far from perfect. As long as we have this body, sin will dwell in our flesh. Then, too, we sometimes drive away the Holy Spirit; we fall into sin, like Peter, David, and other holy men. Nevertheless we may always take recourse to this fact, that our sins are covered, and that God will not lay them to our charge. Sin is not held against us for Christ's sake."

He and the reformers invented the magical transfer of virtue and made the atonement into some mysterious legal transaction. Not knowing that righteousness is something that you do, 1 John 3-7, not something that is transferred, therefore by using fancy judicial terms like "imputed" they stifle the simple minded...The fancy lawyer term simply means accounted/reckoned in the scriptures.Abraham did the works of God and it was reckoned/imputed/accounted to him as righteousness. Luther says we can drive away the Holy Spirit, when before he said it was the devil convicting his conscience. A very confused man indeed.
It also contradicts his doctrine of immutability & impassability; in that he taught that nothing you do can have any effect on God, he learned this from Plato, as well as did Augustine too..Plato was highly esteemed among the church, you see him mentioned quite often even as far back as the 2nd & 3rd centuries with Justin Martyr, Iraneous, Sephran, Ambrose, and many many others. Geek pagan theology entered and began taking over church theology as early as the 2nd century. Although some did hold to freewill and obedience from the heart until the latter 4th century before the take over by the RCC.

Of course he picks David and says any other men, but he doesn't mention the many others in the bible that were blameless such as Job, Joseph, Elisabeth, Daniel, Jeremiah, Hana, and many others of which none of them fell into grievous vile sin like David did. Luther's forgone conclusion is always sin, whereas the bible's forgone conclusion is always righteousness...David suffered tremendously for his actions, God's hand of protection was moved away from him, and his last 20 years were quite grievous, but he remained true to God and was restored through a season of godly sorrow, approximately 9 months and then in a bitter repentance in sackcloth and ashes before God.

Luther implies you can go sin like David did (vile sins of the flesh), and its really no big deal because after all nobody is perfect, and besides the blood gottcha covered, so go and sin it up and get back at the devil. (Turning the grace of God into lasciviousness as Jude said, or trampling the blood under foot as Paul said)..They invented the magical cover, whereas the bible teaches heart purity in that Jesus takes away sin through repentance and the sprinkling of the blood..Big difference..

Get back at the devil by sinning , and sinning more? How delusional can one man be. Satan is probably still laughing at that one...When Paul said STRONG DELUSION he really meant it..Its amazing the lengths men will go to in order to justify sin and still lay hold to the kingdom at the same time...
 
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W

willybob

Guest
#12
I havent studied theology, martin luther ect....Ive studied the Bible for close to 30 years though and what i find is That the term Faith is not grasped. Faith is Hearing Gods word, and obeying Him because you believe Him. <<<thats the faith that justifies. The difference is that beforehand, if you werent born to a jewish mother or if you didnt convert to judaism, you were excluded by the mosaic Law. "Faith alone" is not taught as it is written, people equate faith to " if i call Jesus Lord, i have faith" thats no different than the demons that called out " Jesus , son of the most High what do you want with us? Have you come to torture us before the appointed time?"

The demons Knew Jesus was the Son of God Most High, and always recognized His authority, what they did was obeyed the evil one rather than Jesus. Faith is not Just calling Jesus Lord, even Knowing that He died for the remission of sin....Faith leads to repentance and obedience. its the same with the term "Grace" we take that term, define it as " unwarranted favor" and then false doctrines spin from that into all of the fallacies we have in the church. Like " you dont have to stop sinning, or if you think you have to obey God...you have fallen from Grace" its the mis defining of the terms. faith has become an empty acknowledgement because of scriptures plucked from paul, or even the gospel. 1 or two verses amidst a whole message.

Faith is defined in hebrews 11 and in some of those examples we fins the hier to righteousness by Faith.

Noah HEBREWS 11:7"By FAITH NOAH, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, MOVED WITH FEAR, PREPARED AN ARK to the SAVING of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of THE RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT IS BY FAITH."

so then as james says clearly " faith without works is dead" If you believe in someone and they tell you they buried 1,000,000 in your back yard, and you need money and they give you a map......if there is faith, you will gladly follow the map and dig up the cash." on the other hand if you just say " i believe its there.but im not gonna make any effort to actually follow the map...and im certainly not gonna dig"....there simply is no faith because faith is the evidence and substance of things unseen.

When God told noah im going to destroy the earth, you build an ark like im telling you and you will be saved...Noah believed God, therefore Noah started building. that is "righteousness that is by Faith" very clearly set forth in Hebrews 11:7. Had noah said " I believe you Lord, but im not gonna build the ark...Noah would have perished as well because He didnt obey the Lord who told Him the truth. Same thing with Jesus, Jesus came to tell the world the truth from God, and then die to wipe our ledger clean, equip us with all we need for righteousness......People who claim faith alone....are right, yet they need to learn what righteousness that is by Faith" really is. it is to Hear and believe God, and therefore do because of belief. We know have motivation because God sent His one and only begotten Son, to suffer and die on Our behalf as our atonement sacrifice. so the Blood of Jesus motivates, but faith is not an inward belief that assures us if salvation regardless of actions....its the thing in us that really believes Gods word above what is seen Like noah did.

Faith has been distorted by the enemy Just like eden. Faith keeps them from the fruit because they believe God, doubt however Leads to sin. If i believe God said " i dont have to repent...i never will" If i learn what God has said to christians through His Son.....and believe what He says it will lead me to obedience because that is what He teaches consistantly, and by Faith we follow Jesus.
concerning faith
absolutely I agree with you ,,,,,,,, faith and the deeds of faith are inseparable, (a manifest reality) "ie" Christ in you, whereas Jesus said "I will make my abode in you" not a static faith or "positional"...Positional is abstract and is of Platonism, but manifest is biblical...... biblical faith is simply a steadfast faithfulness to God and His will, (fidelity).

Again: Jesus is not a payment for sin, there is no payment for sin, the wages of sin is death..Yes, most assuredly Jesus paid the price for your soul at Calvary, (purchased your soul through the sacrifice of His blood) and provided a way for restoration through the New Covenant that your sins might be taken away and remembered no more.. Hope that helps make clear on the matter….
 
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Jun 1, 2016
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#13
concerning faith
absolutely I agree with you ,,,,,,,, faith and the deeds of faith are inseparable, (a manifest reality) "ie" Christ in you, whereas Jesus said "I will make my abode in you" not a static faith or "positional"...Positional is abstract and is of Platonism, but manifest is biblical...... biblical faith is simply a steadfast faithfulness to God and His will, (fidelity).

Again: Jesus is not a payment for sin, there is no payment for sin, the wages of sin is death..Yes, most assuredly Jesus paid the price for your soul at Calvary, (purchased your soul through the sacrifice of His blood) and provided a way for restoration through the New Covenant that your sins might be taken away and remembered no more.. Hope that helps make clear on the matter….

Not really lol :) im not really a theological person, if there is no forgiveness through Jesus death, if that isnt forgiveness for my past, then I have no hope, even though I have repented, I would still owe for the sins of my past. when a person " remembers your transgression no more....thats what forgivness is. If we arent forgiven for our past transgressions, then all of us are living a futile life and are condemned by the mosaic Law.

i think you have a very judgemental attitude to be honest, and lack understanding of the gospel. I think you hear " forgiveness" and equate that with the false doctrines of " grace grace" your already forgiven for your future sins, no repentance necassary<<< thats just false doctrine and not at all what im saying. forgivenes isnt and " excuse to sin" lol it is a clean slate for what is behind i feel as if you dont Grasp " dying through the body of Christ, and being born again as a new creation having taken His death, as your own. if we died through the body of Christ, then all our sins are paid in full because death is the opunishment for sin as you have quoted. That is why Jesus died, and why the word teaches us that we are His body, and that we died with Him so that our sins are paid for. << which is kind of what you are saying i think, but once those sins are paid for by His precious suffering and blood, forgiveness remains upon the believer for those sins paid for.

The parable of the unforgiving debtor will explain my position. the man goes in to the master chamber and owes more than He can pay a great amount, that is our sin. the Master forgives the debt completely because He is gracious and has compassion on the man. the man leaves completely forgiven. He then refuses to forgive another man who owes Him little and cant pay, he who just recieved great mercy, refuses to give mercy and that results in His debt being reinstated and He is thrown into prison and tortured.

forgiveness now in Christ rests on forgiving others, because God Has indeed forgiven Our sins based on the death of Christ. Jesus paid for it, we didnt, we are forgiven based on His cost. God has decreed "sin is death"<<< and thats why Jesus died, to forgive our debt. i find often that people think as long as i follow the ten commandments im " sin free" yet the gospel teaches that to not give mercy will result in our condemnation. Jesus Christ is who Our Lord is, and His commands are those of righteousness. they are based on Mercy, not judging another person, on forgiving others when they sin against you, because God has done that.

God commands forgiveness to others from us, because He has forgiven us so much more. one example of many

Luke 7:47-50 "Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many ARE FORGIVEN; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. 48And he said unto her, THY SINS ARE FORGIVEN. 49And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that FORGIVES SINS also? 50And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace."

even under the Law, there is forgivness of sin. Based on sacrificial Laws. if God didnt forgive, the world would be Lost, and repentance would be meaningless. forgiveness is a vital part of Love. a few more wuick examples

Micah 7:18-20 "Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.19He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.20Thou wilt perform the truth to Jacob, and the mercy to Abraham, which thou hast sworn unto our fathers from the days of old."


Mark 2:9-10 "Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk? 10But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,) "


sins behind are forgiven in the Death and resurrection, sins ahead are forgiven by obeying the Lords command " forgive and you will be forgiven, do not forgive and neither will you" <<< Mercy is Gods desire and it is the core of Love. God forgave Our sins, because that is the only thing that could have saved us...Gods Mercy upon His creation that desroyed itself by thier sins under a holy Law that condemns sinners. Past forgiven, future guided By the Words of the One who died to pay the price to forgive us.
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
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#14
titus 1:16 "They PROFESS that they know God; but IN WORKS THEY DENY HIM, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every GOOD WORK REPROBATE."


Titus 2:11-14 "For the GRACE OF GOD that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, TEACHING US that, DENYING UNGODLINESS and WORLDLY LUSTS, we should live SOBERLY, RIGHTEOUSLY, and GODLY, IN THIS PRESENT WORLD; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; WHO GAVE HIMSELF FOR US, THAT HE MIGHT REDEEM US FROM ALL INIQUITY, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of GOOD WORKS."


Titus 3:8 "This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou AFFIRM CONSTANTLY, that THEY WICH HAVE BELIEVED IN GOD MIGHT BE CAREFUL TO MANTAIN GOOD WORKS. These things are good and profitable unto men."


a consistant part of pauls ministry that many people deny, or insist " thats not really what hes saying" Pauls ministry wasnt different in principles such as repentance of sin , what paul often refers to as " Works of the flesh" and we Know He is talking about sinful actions and attitudes because of scripture in His letters like this


Galatians 5:19-21 "Now THE WORKS OF THE FLESH ARE MANIFEST, which are THESE; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. "




This really is not even debatable if a person accepts the scripture, certainly this is not all of pauls doctrine, but makes very clear things many deny. that those who continue on in sinful lives, doing these types of things, will not inherit the Kingdom of God, and when paul is saying " works of the flesh" He is absolutely talking about our conduct.




romans 16 :25-26 "Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the SCRIPTURES OF THE PROPHETS, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, MADE KNOWN TO ALL NATIONS FOR THE OBEDIENCE OF FAITH"


The reason The gospel was given to all nations, is to bring them into obedience, not to exclude believers from Obedience and accountability. That idea is not from God. What we do, matters greatly In Christ.

The last statement clarifies your false teaching, because it reveals the false premise on which all your false conclusions are drawn:

The Gospel was NOT given to all nations to bring them into obedience, the Gospel was given to all nations to offer LIFE to all mankind.


The last passage you quoted shows clearly:

25 Now to him who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that was kept secret for long ages 26 but has now been disclosed and through the prophetic writings has been made known to all nations, according to the command of the eternal God, to bring about the obedience of faith— 27 to the only wise God be glory forevermore through Jesus Christ! Amen. (from Rom. 16)

Neither that nor any of the other passages you use above state that believers in Christ are to be brought to obedience to Old Covenant Law! Not one.

Furthermore, New Covenant Scriptures state elsewhere that the Law is not of faith (Gal. 3), and that without faith, it is impossible to please God (Heb. 11).

You are pointing to that which God, in His New Covenant Scriptures, does not point to, and that is the Old Covenant. No - He has provided for a New Covenant, built on better promises, with a Perfect, Permanent High Priesthood in Christ.

Let go of the Old; take hold of the New \o/! The New is about obedience of faith which results in the Fruit of God (see Gal. 5:18-25), where the Old is about obedience to Law which results in the arousing of sinful passions (see Rom. 7:1-6).


-JGIG
 
W

willybob

Guest
#15
Not really lol :) im not really a theological person, if there is no forgiveness through Jesus death, if that isnt forgiveness for my past, then I have no hope, even though I have repented, I would still owe for the sins of my past. when a person " remembers your transgression no more....thats what forgivness is. If we arent forgiven for our past transgressions, then all of us are living a futile life and are condemned by the mosaic Law.

i think you have a very judgemental attitude to be honest, and lack understanding of the gospel. I think you hear " forgiveness" and equate that with the false doctrines of " grace grace" your already forgiven for your future sins, no repentance necassary<<< thats just false doctrine and not at all what im saying. forgivenes isnt and " excuse to sin" lol it is a clean slate for what is behind i feel as if you dont Grasp " dying through the body of Christ, and being born again as a new creation having taken His death, as your own. if we died through the body of Christ, then all our sins are paid in full because death is the opunishment for sin as you have quoted. That is why Jesus died, and why the word teaches us that we are His body, and that we died with Him so that our sins are paid for. << which is kind of what you are saying i think, but once those sins are paid for by His precious suffering and blood, forgiveness remains upon the believer for those sins paid for.

The parable of the unforgiving debtor will explain my position. the man goes in to the master chamber and owes more than He can pay a great amount, that is our sin. the Master forgives the debt completely because He is gracious and has compassion on the man. the man leaves completely forgiven. He then refuses to forgive another man who owes Him little and cant pay, he who just recieved great mercy, refuses to give mercy and that results in His debt being reinstated and He is thrown into prison and tortured.

forgiveness now in Christ rests on forgiving others, because God Has indeed forgiven Our sins based on the death of Christ. Jesus paid for it, we didnt, we are forgiven based on His cost. God has decreed "sin is death"<<< and thats why Jesus died, to forgive our debt. i find often that people think as long as i follow the ten commandments im " sin free" yet the gospel teaches that to not give mercy will result in our condemnation. Jesus Christ is who Our Lord is, and His commands are those of righteousness. they are based on Mercy, not judging another person, on forgiving others when they sin against you, because God has done that.

God commands forgiveness to others from us, because He has forgiven us so much more. one example of many

Luke 7:47-50 "Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many ARE FORGIVEN; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. 48And he said unto her, THY SINS ARE FORGIVEN. 49And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that FORGIVES SINS also? 50And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace."

even under the Law, there is forgivness of sin. Based on sacrificial Laws. if God didnt forgive, the world would be Lost, and repentance would be meaningless. forgiveness is a vital part of Love. a few more wuick examples

Micah 7:18-20 "Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.19He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.20Thou wilt perform the truth to Jacob, and the mercy to Abraham, which thou hast sworn unto our fathers from the days of old."


Mark 2:9-10 "Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk? 10But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,) "


sins behind are forgiven in the Death and resurrection, sins ahead are forgiven by obeying the Lords command " forgive and you will be forgiven, do not forgive and neither will you" <<< Mercy is Gods desire and it is the core of Love. God forgave Our sins, because that is the only thing that could have saved us...Gods Mercy upon His creation that desroyed itself by thier sins under a holy Law that condemns sinners. Past forgiven, future guided By the Words of the One who died to pay the price to forgive us.

There is really no ""LOL"concerning the matter...You seem to think that I said there was no forgives for sin...I did not say that,I said there is no payment for sin. (a big difference)......A debt paid for cannot be forgiven, thus Jesus paid no sin debt, However He offered Himself up as a blameless spotless Lamb on your behalf..By doing so He more than justified God's mercy and forgiveness for your sins.......Thomas Aquinas invented satisfaction atonement, and 300 years later Martin Luther invented Penal Substitution and payment for sin. Whereas the bible teaches Ransom and conditional covenant.. This truth is all but lost and forgotten in the last 500 years....
 
Nov 19, 2016
502
23
0
#16
titus 1:16 "They PROFESS that they know God; but IN WORKS THEY DENY HIM, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every GOOD WORK REPROBATE."


Titus 2:11-14 "For the GRACE OF GOD that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, TEACHING US that, DENYING UNGODLINESS and WORLDLY LUSTS, we should live SOBERLY, RIGHTEOUSLY, and GODLY, IN THIS PRESENT WORLD; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; WHO GAVE HIMSELF FOR US, THAT HE MIGHT REDEEM US FROM ALL INIQUITY, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of GOOD WORKS."


Titus 3:8 "This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou AFFIRM CONSTANTLY, that THEY WICH HAVE BELIEVED IN GOD MIGHT BE CAREFUL TO MANTAIN GOOD WORKS. These things are good and profitable unto men."


a consistant part of pauls ministry that many people deny, or insist " thats not really what hes saying" Pauls ministry wasnt different in principles such as repentance of sin , what paul often refers to as " Works of the flesh" and we Know He is talking about sinful actions and attitudes because of scripture in His letters like this


Galatians 5:19-21 "Now THE WORKS OF THE FLESH ARE MANIFEST, which are THESE; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. "




This really is not even debatable if a person accepts the scripture, certainly this is not all of pauls doctrine, but makes very clear things many deny. that those who continue on in sinful lives, doing these types of things, will not inherit the Kingdom of God, and when paul is saying " works of the flesh" He is absolutely talking about our conduct.




romans 16 :25-26 "Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the SCRIPTURES OF THE PROPHETS, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, MADE KNOWN TO ALL NATIONS FOR THE OBEDIENCE OF FAITH"


The reason The gospel was given to all nations, is to bring them into obedience, not to exclude believers from Obedience and accountability. That idea is not from God. What we do, matters greatly In Christ.
I hear you followjesus,for Paul always stated to abstain from sin,by being led of the Spirit.A Spirit led life will not fulfill the desires of the flesh,and Paul said if he does not keep under his body,which is to abstain from sin,he would be a castaway.

But let me put it like this.

Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

People believe what they want to believe,and if they will not hear the words of Paul when he said,abstain from sin being led of the Spirit,they will not believe even if one rose from the dead and told them.

They only care about the scriptures that appear to give then a relaxed walk with God,which Paul was not trying to convey that,for Paul said,we do not void out the law through faith,but we establish the law,the moral laws,abstain from sins of the flesh,and a Spirit led life will abstain from sin,and if not they are not of Christ.
 
W

willybob

Guest
#17
Its like a deer in a headlight (cognitive dissidence ) it doesn't register...The analytical side of the mind shuts down, and the emotional side feeds everything, there heart feeds off emotion instead of the truth in scripture..thus palcing the cart before the horse....Example: when Jesus said "go and sin no more, lest a worse thing happen to you" doesn't even register with them, they become like deer in the headlights of on coming truth, it paralyses them and completely undermines their foundational position built upon shifting sands...This is why Jesus spoke to many in parables.....
 
S

sevenseas

Guest
#18
titus 1:16 "They PROFESS that they know God; but IN WORKS THEY DENY HIM, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every GOOD WORK REPROBATE."


Titus 2:11-14 "For the GRACE OF GOD that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, TEACHING US that, DENYING UNGODLINESS and WORLDLY LUSTS, we should live SOBERLY, RIGHTEOUSLY, and GODLY, IN THIS PRESENT WORLD; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; WHO GAVE HIMSELF FOR US, THAT HE MIGHT REDEEM US FROM ALL INIQUITY, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of GOOD WORKS."


Titus 3:8 "This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou AFFIRM CONSTANTLY, that THEY WICH HAVE BELIEVED IN GOD MIGHT BE CAREFUL TO MANTAIN GOOD WORKS. These things are good and profitable unto men."


a consistant part of pauls ministry that many people deny, or insist " thats not really what hes saying" Pauls ministry wasnt different in principles such as repentance of sin , what paul often refers to as " Works of the flesh" and we Know He is talking about sinful actions and attitudes because of scripture in His letters like this


Galatians 5:19-21 "Now THE WORKS OF THE FLESH ARE MANIFEST, which are THESE; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. "




This really is not even debatable if a person accepts the scripture, certainly this is not all of pauls doctrine, but makes very clear things many deny. that those who continue on in sinful lives, doing these types of things, will not inherit the Kingdom of God, and when paul is saying " works of the flesh" He is absolutely talking about our conduct.




romans 16 :25-26 "Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the SCRIPTURES OF THE PROPHETS, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, MADE KNOWN TO ALL NATIONS FOR THE OBEDIENCE OF FAITH"


The reason The gospel was given to all nations, is to bring them into obedience, not to exclude believers from Obedience and accountability. That idea is not from God. What we do, matters greatly In Christ
.

I don't follow what you are saying here. Are you saying the gospel is given in lieu of the commandments?

Also, did you make a mistake saying the idea is not from God. Did you maybe mean to say the idea is from God?

How can nations be obedient to the gospel ?

Please help me to understand what you are saying
 
S

sevenseas

Guest
#19
Its like a deer in a headlight (cognitive dissidence ) it doesn't register...The analytical side of the mind shuts down, and the emotional side feeds everything, there heart feeds off emotion instead of the truth in scripture..thus palcing the cart before the horse....Example: when Jesus said "go and sin no more, lest a worse thing happen to you" doesn't even register with them, they become like deer in the headlights of on coming truth, it paralyses them and completely undermines their foundational position built upon shifting sands...This is why Jesus spoke to many in parables.....

First, I would like to assure you the analytical processes of my mind have not shut down but I would like to better understand the dialogue engendered by this thread.

Who are the people feeding off emotions to the neglect of truth? Are they people in this forum? People known to you?

One more thing. Deer do not suffer from cognitive dissonance . (It's dissonance and not dissidence. A dissident is a person who is protesting against an official policy)

The reason deer will freeze in headlights or other bright sources of light at night, is due to the dilation of their eyes set for night time vision. The next time it is pitch black outside, spend about ten minutes out there, whistling in the dark or what have you and then ask a friend to turn on the high beams of a car right into your face. Take care to position yourself so that the beams actually hit your eyes for the full effect. This should help you to understand the plight of the deer.

Hunting deer at night, or deer jacking as it is commonly referred to, is against the law. The temporary blindness leaves the deer unable to move.

So, what is actually being discussed here please?
 
W

willybob

Guest
#20
First, I would like to assure you the analytical processes of my mind have not shut down but I would like to better understand the dialogue engendered by this thread.

Who are the people feeding off emotions to the neglect of truth? Are they people in this forum? People known to you?

One more thing. Deer do not suffer from cognitive dissonance . (It's dissonance and not dissidence. A dissident is a person who is protesting against an official policy)

The reason deer will freeze in headlights or other bright sources of light at night, is due to the dilation of their eyes set for night time vision. The next time it is pitch black outside, spend about ten minutes out there, whistling in the dark or what have you and then ask a friend to turn on the high beams of a car right into your face. Take care to position yourself so that the beams actually hit your eyes for the full effect. This should help you to understand the plight of the deer.

Hunting deer at night, or deer jacking as it is commonly referred to, is against the law. The temporary blindness leaves the deer unable to move. It completely undermines the provisional false gospel and they go into shell shock....

So, what is actually being discussed here please?
Come preaching repentance and faith proven by deeds from a sincere heart of love having no guile like Jeremiah, and John the baptizer did into a world of pitch black darkness and you will find out what I mean..
 
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