the ministry of condemnation

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Jun 1, 2016
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#1
some crimes under the mosaic Law, commanded By God that the sinner is stoned to death.


Intercourse between a man and his mother, Intercourse between a man and his father's wife (not necessarily his mother)., Intercourse between a man and his daughter in law,Intercourse with another man's wife from the first stage of marriage, Intercourse between two men, Bestiality,Cursing the name of God in God's name.,Idol Worship,Giving one's progeny to Molech (child sacrifice),Necromantic Sorcery,Pythonic Sorcery,Attempting to convince another to worship idols,Instigating a community to worship idols,Witchcraft,Violating the Sabbath,Cursing one's own parent,A stubborn and rebellious son."


Some crimes commanded by God that the sinner be burned to death.


The daughter of a priest who completed the second stage of marriage commits adultery,Intercourse between a man and his daughter,Intercourse between a man and his daughter's daughter,Intercourse between a man and his son's daughter,Intercourse between a man and his wife's daughter (not necessarily his own daughter),Intercourse between a man and his wife's daughter's daughter,Intercourse between a man and his wife's son's daughter,Intercourse between a man and his mother in law,Intercourse between a man and his mother in law's mother,Intercourse between a man and his father in law's mother."


Beheading .


Unlawful premeditated murder,Being a member of a city that has gone astray.


strangulation...Committing adultery with another man's wife, when it doesn't fall under the above criteria,Wounding one's own parent,Kidnapping another Israelite,Prophesying falsely,Prophesying in the name of other deities."


these are some of he sins God commands a death sentance for. and some details regarding aspects of this. even if a foreigner or isrealite didnt Know what they were doing was a crime, made no difference, still the sinner is condemned. Many other sins rewuire excommunication from Gods People, or various forms of lesser punishment. This is the Law of judaism, the torah, the Law of Moses.....when a person is serving the Law of moses they Must serve by the letter. they must not be compassionate on sinners, shew no mercy, no pity, thier own child, thier wife, thier mother of father, thier best friend without respect of who, the people are commanded to carry out these precepts Just Like the ten commandments.


The Law is the entire Law from start to finish. This is why it does not mix with Christianity. And why Jesus death fulfills it. He had no sin He was not condemned under the Law, we however were. Under the Law if you commited any crime worthy of death, repentance wasnt what was commanded, but a death sentance carried out by your fellow people. by Commandment of God almighty. Jesus is not at all tered aching the Law of Moses. it is rather SALVATION from the curse of the Law upon all sinners without respect of persons, without pity or mercy upon the sinners, even your own Child was to be stoned by your hand first and then the people, if your Kid dishonored you.......


When you compare the Law with the Gospel, there is no possible way to include the Law with the Gospel it cant mix Because of What Jesus taught. Mercy to the sinners v death to the sinners, a call to repentance v a violent death to the sinner. Forgiveness v condemnation. This doesnt change obedience to God, it changes the Law Having a new priesthood and mediator, who is Jesus Christ. We as Christians obey God through Jesus, not moses.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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#2
This is the Law of judaism, the torah, the Law of Moses.....
judaisim follows the Talmud, not the Law as written in Scripture. This is a common misunderstanding the the Jews/Pharisees kept the "LAW" and that was their problem, no they had made their own law and till this very day Judaisim still uses it's oral law/Talmud over written scripture...

from wikipedia:
"Oral Torah
According to Rabbinic Judaism, the Oral Torah or Oral Law (Hebrew: תורה שבעל פה, Torah she-be-`al peh, lit "Torah that is spoken") represents those laws, statutes, and legal interpretations that were not recorded in the Five Books of Moses..."

New International Version - Mt 23:2-3, "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."


King James Bible - Mt 23:2-3, "Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."


Shem Tob's Hebrew Mattithyah - Mat 23:2-3, "The Pharisees and Sages sit upon the seat of Mosheh. Therefore, all that he (Mosheh) says to you, diligently do, but according to their takanot (reforms) and thier ma'asim (precedents) do not do, because they talk (Torah) but they do not do."


Takanot: rabbinical reforms or enactments that (falsely) "change or add" to YHWH's Law.


Ma'asim: acts or deeds that serve as precedents for rabbinic law.


Both Takanot and Ma'asim are laws of the Talmud. The Savior said this to the Pharisees;




Mat 15:7-9, "Hypocrites! Well did Isayah (29:13-14)* prophesy of you, saying: These people draw near to Me with their mouth and honor Me with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Me. But in vain they do worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."



*Isayah 29:13-14, "Therefore YHWH said: Because these people draw near to Me with their mouths and honor Me with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Me, and their reverence to Me is taught by the precept of men; Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvelous work among this people; a marvelous work and a wonder; for the wisdom of their wise men will perish, and the understanding of their prudent men, will be hid."

For truly, accrording to Scripture it is right to have obedience to Yah's Instructions and the faith in the blood of Yahshua:


Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of יהושעMessiah."


Revelation 14:12, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of Yah and the belief of יהושע.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalms 119:142, "Your righteousness is righteousness forever, And Your Torah is truth."[/FONT]

 
Nov 22, 2015
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#3
The 10 commandments were called the ministry of condemnation and of death by Paul. We can trust the life of Christ in us to live godly in this world.

The grace of God "teaches" now in the New Covenant how to deny ungodliness and to live sensibly, righteous and godly in this present age - NOT the law of Moses. Titus 2:11-12

The 10 commandments are called the "letter that kills" and the "ministry of death" - The New Covenant is called the "ministry of the Spirit" that brings Life.

The 10 commandments were called "the ministry of condemnation" - the New Covenant is called "the ministry of righteousness."
This is Christ's righteousness given to us that believe.

2 Corinthians 3:6-9 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]
who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]
But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,

[SUP]8 [/SUP]
how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?

[SUP]9 [/SUP] For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory.

The law of Moses including the 10 commandments are like an x-ray machine - they show up things that are wrong but the x-ray machine has no power to "fix it".

It just reveals what is wrong. It's the same here for Christ Himself and His life in our new hearts is the only thing that can "fix us" with a transformed live.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
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#4
The 10 commandments were called the ministry of condemnation and of death by Paul.
Paul also said this:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of God?"

.....

Why would we be warned not to "
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability[/FONT]"???

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."[/FONT]





[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Paul also said this:

Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy--so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."
[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you, yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:12, "Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous."[/FONT]
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#5
If one is going to live by the law - then he is obligated to live by all of it. There are no "parts" to the Law. Saying that some are for us and some are not is just watering down the Law to make it seem "do-able" but in reality "law-keepers" have a very low respect for the Law and in fact break the law every day.

Romans 10:4-5 (NASB)

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness.

We have died to the Law SO THAT we might live unto God.

Galatians 2:19 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] "For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God.


There is no justification or right standing with God because one "keeps the law". Christians live by faith - faith in Christ and what He has already done and we live by His life in us now.

Galatians 3:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] No
w that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

The Law is NOT of faith and if you practice the Law - you must live by it.

Galatians 3:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM."

When we are trying to keep the law of which circumcision is a part of - we are obligated to keep the whole law (
Remember there are NO PARTS to the law - it is either all or live by Christ by grace through faith in His finished work on the cross and resurrection )

Galatians 5:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole
law.

We can trust the Holy Spirit and the life of Christ in us to lead us into life in Him. Let's eat from the tree of Life - which is Christ Himself in us. The Law is eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Choose Christ. He is our life. He is the Way, the Truth and the Life.

Colossians 3:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. ( NOT in the law of Moses )
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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#6
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]We do not gain Salvation by following the Law of the Creator, but the Yahshua showed the intent or ultimate result or goal of keeping the Law of YHWH.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1Peter 1:9, "Receiving the end (telos) of your faith, even the salvation of your souls."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Kepha (Peter) 1:9, "Receiving the ultimate result (telos) of your faith – the salvation of your souls."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]If the its the end of the Law aka Law is done away in Romans 10:4 then faith must also be done away in 1 Kepha (Peter) 1:9. Unless of course telos means the goal.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 5:11, "Behold, we call them blessed that endured: ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end (telos) of the Lord, how that the Lord is full of pity, and merciful."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Yaaqob (James) 5:11, "Behold, we regard as blessed those who endure. You have heard of the patience of Iyyob, and have seen the ultimate result (telos) of Yahweh: that Yahweh is very compassionate and merciful."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Timothy 1:5 New American Standard Bible[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"But the goal (telos) of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Timothy 1:5 King James Bible[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"Now the end (telos) of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.[/FONT]
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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#7
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 11:4. " [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]is in His holy temple; [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]throne is in heaven; His eyes behold, His eyelids test the sons of men."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 9:7-8, “But [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]abides forever, He is preparing His throne for judgment. And He judges the world in righteousness, He judges the peoples in straightness.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 84:11, “For [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]the Mighty is a sun and a shield; [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]gives favor and esteem; He withholds no good matter From those who walk blamelessly.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isaiah 66:15-16, “For look, [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]comes with fire and with His chariots, like a whirlwind, to render His displeasure with burning, and His rebuke with flames of fire. For by fire and by His sword [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]shall judge all flesh, and the slain of [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]shall be many.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrew 5:9, "And having been perfected, He became the Causer of everlasting deliverance to all those obeying Him."[/FONT]
 
Jun 1, 2016
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#8
Paul also said this:

1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of God?"

.....

Why would we be warned not to "
take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability"???


2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."





Paul also said this:

Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy--so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."




Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."


Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you, yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."


Romans 7:12, "Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous."
Paul also says regarding the commandments that Love fulfills them.

Romans 13:8-10 "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath FULFILLED THE LAW. 9For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is BREIFLY COMPREHENDED in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10Love WORKETH NO ILL to his neighbour: therefore love is the FULFILLING OF the law."

if i love, i dont commit adultery , if i love i dont lie, cheat, steal, bear false witness, i certainly Have no other God but the one who Gave His only begotten Son to save me, ect.... the ten commandments are eternal Moral standards. And Jesus endorsed them. What Jesus says in obeying that, will fulfill the 10 commandments, and much more will remove the sinfulness in the heart of man that motivates mankind to sin. The 10 commandments are perfect as they were given, the curses afterward are what Jesus removed. all of the laws really are right. all of the sexual immorality laws for instance, in the new testament it is commanded to take no part in sexual immorality, the only way we know what that means to God is to understand all of the sexual immorality Laws. otherwise were just saying " dont be sexually immoral" buit that could mean anything if morality varies from person to person, it doesnt though morality is based on What God has said is right and wrong. The Law of moses is useful in every way, but it doesnt sentance us, it doesnt rule us, its not the authority any Longer, Jesus is.
 
Jun 1, 2016
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#9
Psalm 11:4. " יהוה is in His holy temple; יהוה throne is in heaven; His eyes behold, His eyelids test the sons of men."


Psalm 9:7-8, “But יהוה abides forever, He is preparing His throne for judgment. And He judges the world in righteousness, He judges the peoples in straightness.”


Psalm 84:11, “For יהוה the Mighty is a sun and a shield; יהוה gives favor and esteem; He withholds no good matter From those who walk blamelessly.”


Isaiah 66:15-16, “For look, יהוה comes with fire and with His chariots, like a whirlwind, to render His displeasure with burning, and His rebuke with flames of fire. For by fire and by His sword יהוה shall judge all flesh, and the slain of יהוה shall be many.”


Hebrew 5:9, "And having been perfected, He became the Causer of everlasting deliverance to all those obeying Him."

Great stuff !!!
 
Jun 1, 2016
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#10
judaisim follows the Talmud, not the Law as written in Scripture. This is a common misunderstanding the the Jews/Pharisees kept the "LAW" and that was their problem, no they had made their own law and till this very day Judaisim still uses it's oral law/Talmud over written scripture...

from wikipedia:
"Oral Torah
According to Rabbinic Judaism, the Oral Torah or Oral Law (Hebrew: תורה שבעל פה, Torah she-be-`al peh, lit "Torah that is spoken") represents those laws, statutes, and legal interpretations that were not recorded in the Five Books of Moses..."

New International Version - Mt 23:2-3, "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."


King James Bible - Mt 23:2-3, "Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."


Shem Tob's Hebrew Mattithyah - Mat 23:2-3, "The Pharisees and Sages sit upon the seat of Mosheh. Therefore, all that he (Mosheh) says to you, diligently do, but according to their takanot (reforms) and thier ma'asim (precedents) do not do, because they talk (Torah) but they do not do."


Takanot: rabbinical reforms or enactments that (falsely) "change or add" to YHWH's Law.


Ma'asim: acts or deeds that serve as precedents for rabbinic law.


Both Takanot and Ma'asim are laws of the Talmud. The Savior said this to the Pharisees;




Mat 15:7-9, "Hypocrites! Well did Isayah (29:13-14)* prophesy of you, saying: These people draw near to Me with their mouth and honor Me with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Me. But in vain they do worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."



*Isayah 29:13-14, "Therefore YHWH said: Because these people draw near to Me with their mouths and honor Me with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Me, and their reverence to Me is taught by the precept of men; Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvelous work among this people; a marvelous work and a wonder; for the wisdom of their wise men will perish, and the understanding of their prudent men, will be hid."

For truly, accrording to Scripture it is right to have obedience to Yah's Instructions and the faith in the blood of Yahshua:


Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of יהושעMessiah."


Revelation 14:12, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of Yah and the belief of יהושע.

Psalms 119:142, "Your righteousness is righteousness forever, And Your Torah is truth."

do you believe the 5 books of moses were given by God to Him? if so, i can show you every Law in the op, written in the first 5 books of moses.

those 5 books are the torah. men didnt write those laws, God spoke to moses, moses to the people. those 5 books are divinely inspired and Look what they say near the end



Numbers 36:13 "These are the commandments and the judgments, which the LORD commanded by the hand of Moses UNTO THE CHILDREN OF ISREAL in the plains of Moab by Jordan near Jericho."


Leviticus 26:46 "These are the statutes and judgments and laws, which the LORD made between HIM AND THE CHILDREN OF ISREAL in mount Sinai by the hand of Moses."


Deuteronomy 29 :1 "These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the CHILDREN OF ISREAL in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made WITH THEM AT HOREB."


Deuteronomy 29:29 "The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do ALL THE WORDS OF THIS LAW."


Deuteronomy 31:24-26 "And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the WORDS OF THIS LAW IN A BOOK, UNTIL THEY WERE FINISHED, That Moses commanded the LEVITES, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, Take this BOOK OF THE LAW, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness AGAINST THEE."


can i ask you, do you believe that Jesus fulfilled the first covenant? and that He is the mediator for a new covenant?
 

DustyRhodes

Senior Member
Dec 30, 2016
2,117
599
113
#11
Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments" (Matthew 22:36-40).When Jesus talks about commandments, He is referring to these 2 commandments...it clearly states ...all the law hangs on these 2 commandments...so what that means is simple...keep the 2 commandments of love and the original ten are fulfilled...

Freedom in Christ
5 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.

Hebrews 8: [SUP]13 [/SUP]By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

The old law led to death so there is no way as Christians are we to obey the old law.
 
Jun 1, 2016
5,032
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#12
Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments" (Matthew 22:36-40).When Jesus talks about commandments, He is referring to these 2 commandments...it clearly states ...all the law hangs on these 2 commandments...so what that means is simple...keep the 2 commandments of love and the original ten are fulfilled...

Freedom in Christ
5 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.

Hebrews 8: [SUP]13 [/SUP]By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

The old law led to death so there is no way as Christians are we to obey the old law.

Gods Love cant be seperated from the commandments its one thing to say " i love everyone" but look at what you quoted"

1 john 5:3-5 "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 2By THIS we know that we LOVE the children of God, when we LOVE GOD, and KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. 3For THIS IS THE LOVE of God, that WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: and his commandments are NOT GRIEVOUS. 4For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith."5Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?"


if you love your wife, you dont commit adultery, if you Love your neighbor, you dont lie to them, steal from them, cheat them, covet thier possessions, bear false witness, and certainly if we Love God with all our hearts we have no other Gods.....you quoted " Love God with all your heart, mind, soul strength i agree.

john 14:15 "
If ye love me, keep my commandments."

its not the love of man, that varies if there is no standard one person says " i love you wife" cheats on her all the time, beats her, he says " i love you" even the worst people can say i love you....but if they are stealing, lying , cheating, telling lies about you ect.....it isnt Love. His commandments are Godly Love. i know people who say they love everyone, yet they dont treat many with Love. the homeless Guy on the corner " He needs to get a job, look at that guy man do something for yourself and quit begging for peoples money" <<<< that isnt Love. Love is action.

1 john 3:16-18 "
Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.17But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? 18My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth."

Jesus doid say your quote, but thats a summary statement, not instructions. Gods word given through Jesus is perfect Love, and our commandments are His word.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#13
do you believe the 5 books of moses were given by God to Him? if so, i can show you every Law in the op, written in the first 5 books of moses.
Malakyah 4:1-4, “For look, the day shall come, burning like a furnace, and all the proud, and every wrongdoer shall be stubble. And the day that shall come shall burn them up,” said יהוה of hosts, “which leaves to them neither root nor branch. But to you who fear My Name the Sun of Righteousness shall arise with healing in His wings. And you shall go out and leap for joy like calves from the stall. And you shall trample the wrongdoers, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day that I do this,” said יהוה of hosts. Remember the Torah of Mosheh, My servant, which I commanded him in Ḥorĕḇ for all Yisra’ĕl – laws and right-rulings.”

Yahshua did not do away with any Laws, He performed the true intent of the Law of YHWH in His walk...


Mat 7:12-14, "Therefore, all things you want men to do to you, do the same to them, for this is (the intent of the) Law and the Prophets. Enter in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who go that way. Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leads to life, and few there are who find it."


can i ask you, do you believe that Jesus fulfilled the first covenant? and that He is the mediator for a new covenant?
He is the mediator of the "chadash" covenant, there are 3 entries for this word, with 3 different meanings, anyone who knows anything about Hebrew language knows one word has one meaning not 3....

Yahshua/Jesus now sits as High Priest in the heavens, carrying out all the duties of a High Priest:

Hebrews 9:11-12, "But the Messiah came near as a High Priest over the righteous things to come, with the great and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation; Nor through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once, for all, having obtained eternal redemption."

Hebrews 7:23-28, “And indeed, those that became priests were many, because they were prevented by death from continuing, but He, because He remains forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. Therefore He is also able to save completely those who draw near to Yah through Him, ever living to make intercession for them. For it was fitting that we should have such a High Priest – kind, innocent, undefiled, having been separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens, who does not need, as those high priests, to offer up slaughter offerings day by day, first for His own sins and then for those of the people, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. For the Torah appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath which came after the Torah, appoints the Son having been perfected forever.”

For it was written long before it happened:

Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O YHWH! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

Finally, unless you believe the Messiah is a liar or that heaven and earth has already passed, He said it very very clearly;

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahanan, saw the holy city, YHWH Shammah, coming down from YHWH out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of YHWH is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and YHWH Himself will be with them, and be their Father.”

Yahshua showed us the intent and perfect way to follow the Instructions of YHWH.
[/FONT]
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
63
#14
We do not gain Salvation by following the Law of the Creator, but the Yahshua showed the intent or ultimate result or goal of keeping the Law of YHWH.


Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."


Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."


19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,24 and all are justified freely by his gracethrough the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. (from Rom. 3)


Either God lied in Romans 3 or your interpretation of Romans 10:4 is in error.

Strike One.






1Peter 1:9, "Receiving the end (telos) of your faith, even the salvation of your souls."


1 Kepha (Peter) 1:9, "Receiving the ultimate result (telos) of your faith – the salvation of your souls."


If the its the end of the Law aka Law is done away in Romans 10:4 then faith must also be done away in 1 Kepha (Peter) 1:9. Unless of course telos means the goal.
10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” 11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”

12
But the law is not of faith,

rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” (from Gal. 3)


Strike Two.


Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)


HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.


James 5:11, "Behold, we call them blessed that endured: ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end (telos) of the Lord, how that the Lord is full of pity, and merciful."


Yaaqob (James) 5:11, "Behold, we regard as blessed those who endure. You have heard of the patience of Iyyob, and have seen the ultimate result (telos) of Yahweh: that Yahweh is very compassionate and merciful."


1 Timothy 1:5 New American Standard Bible
"But the goal (telos) of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith."


1 Timothy 1:5 King James Bible
"Now the end (telos) of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned."


Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)


HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.
1) end
a) termination, the limit at which a thing ceases to be (always of the end of some act or state, but not of the end of a period of time)
b) the end


1) the last in any succession or series
2) eternal

c) that by which a thing is finished, its close, issue
d) the end to which all things relate, the aim, purpose

2) toll, custom (i.e. indirect tax on goods)

End, in this case, determined by context, simply means end. And the end to which all thing relate, the aim, purpose? Christ. You're trying to make Christ point to the Law, when the Law, in fact, points to Christ.


Strike Three.


Your use of the root word fallacy and the stringing together of unrelated verses to create a false narrative and to muddy the waters, and results in a false conclusion about what the Scriptures clearly say.

​-JGIG



 
D

Depleted

Guest
#15
some crimes under the mosaic Law, commanded By God that the sinner is stoned to death.


Intercourse between a man and his mother, Intercourse between a man and his father's wife (not necessarily his mother)., Intercourse between a man and his daughter in law,Intercourse with another man's wife from the first stage of marriage, Intercourse between two men, Bestiality,Cursing the name of God in God's name.,Idol Worship,Giving one's progeny to Molech (child sacrifice),Necromantic Sorcery,Pythonic Sorcery,Attempting to convince another to worship idols,Instigating a community to worship idols,Witchcraft,Violating the Sabbath,Cursing one's own parent,A stubborn and rebellious son."


Some crimes commanded by God that the sinner be burned to death.


The daughter of a priest who completed the second stage of marriage commits adultery,Intercourse between a man and his daughter,Intercourse between a man and his daughter's daughter,Intercourse between a man and his son's daughter,Intercourse between a man and his wife's daughter (not necessarily his own daughter),Intercourse between a man and his wife's daughter's daughter,Intercourse between a man and his wife's son's daughter,Intercourse between a man and his mother in law,Intercourse between a man and his mother in law's mother,Intercourse between a man and his father in law's mother."


Beheading .


Unlawful premeditated murder,Being a member of a city that has gone astray.


strangulation...Committing adultery with another man's wife, when it doesn't fall under the above criteria,Wounding one's own parent,Kidnapping another Israelite,Prophesying falsely,Prophesying in the name of other deities."


these are some of he sins God commands a death sentance for. and some details regarding aspects of this. even if a foreigner or isrealite didnt Know what they were doing was a crime, made no difference, still the sinner is condemned. Many other sins rewuire excommunication from Gods People, or various forms of lesser punishment. This is the Law of judaism, the torah, the Law of Moses.....when a person is serving the Law of moses they Must serve by the letter. they must not be compassionate on sinners, shew no mercy, no pity, thier own child, thier wife, thier mother of father, thier best friend without respect of who, the people are commanded to carry out these precepts Just Like the ten commandments.


The Law is the entire Law from start to finish. This is why it does not mix with Christianity. And why Jesus death fulfills it. He had no sin He was not condemned under the Law, we however were. Under the Law if you commited any crime worthy of death, repentance wasnt what was commanded, but a death sentance carried out by your fellow people. by Commandment of God almighty. Jesus is not at all tered aching the Law of Moses. it is rather SALVATION from the curse of the Law upon all sinners without respect of persons, without pity or mercy upon the sinners, even your own Child was to be stoned by your hand first and then the people, if your Kid dishonored you.......


When you compare the Law with the Gospel, there is no possible way to include the Law with the Gospel it cant mix Because of What Jesus taught. Mercy to the sinners v death to the sinners, a call to repentance v a violent death to the sinner. Forgiveness v condemnation. This doesnt change obedience to God, it changes the Law Having a new priesthood and mediator, who is Jesus Christ. We as Christians obey God through Jesus, not moses.
You're the one doing the mixing. The Law has never changed. Someone was sentenced to death for those crimes. His name is Jesus. God exacted the proper penalty for whosoever will believe. That was in the Law too. An innocent man can take on the punishment of the guilty.

Try not to teach a different gospel simply because you prefer your private one.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#16
Just think....under the Law David should have been put to death.......

Yet a fine picture of Jesus and mercy is found in the death of the Son of David....innocent, yet he took David's place............
 

DustyRhodes

Senior Member
Dec 30, 2016
2,117
599
113
#17
Gods Love cant be seperated from the commandments its one thing to say " i love everyone" but look at what you quoted"

1 john 5:3-5 "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 2By THIS we know that we LOVE the children of God, when we LOVE GOD, and KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. 3For THIS IS THE LOVE of God, that WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: and his commandments are NOT GRIEVOUS. 4For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith."5Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?"


if you love your wife, you dont commit adultery, if you Love your neighbor, you dont lie to them, steal from them, cheat them, covet thier possessions, bear false witness, and certainly if we Love God with all our hearts we have no other Gods.....you quoted " Love God with all your heart, mind, soul strength i agree.

john 14:15 "
If ye love me, keep my commandments."

its not the love of man, that varies if there is no standard one person says " i love you wife" cheats on her all the time, beats her, he says " i love you" even the worst people can say i love you....but if they are stealing, lying , cheating, telling lies about you ect.....it isnt Love. His commandments are Godly Love. i know people who say they love everyone, yet they dont treat many with Love. the homeless Guy on the corner " He needs to get a job, look at that guy man do something for yourself and quit begging for peoples money" <<<< that isnt Love. Love is action.

1 john 3:16-18 "
Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.17But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? 18My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth."

Jesus doid say your quote, but thats a summary statement, not instructions. Gods word given through Jesus is perfect Love, and our commandments are His word.
I appreciate your participation but nothing you illustrated disputes what i said. :D
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
63
#18
Malakyah 4:1-4, “For look, the day shall come, burning like a furnace, and all the proud, and every wrongdoer shall be stubble. And the day that shall come shall burn them up,” said יהוה of hosts, “which leaves to them neither root nor branch. But to you who fear My Name the Sun of Righteousness shall arise with healing in His wings. And you shall go out and leap for joy like calves from the stall. And you shall trample the wrongdoers, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day that I do this,” said יהוה of hosts. Remember the Torah of Mosheh, My servant, which I commanded him in Ḥorĕḇ for all Yisra’ĕl – laws and right-rulings.”

Yahshua did not do away with any Laws, He performed the true intent of the Law of YHWH in His walk...


Mat 7:12-14, "Therefore, all things you want men to do to you, do the same to them, for this is (the intent of the) Law and the Prophets. Enter in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who go that way. Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leads to life, and few there are who find it."
Tell us, Hizi, how are your plans for keeping the Spring Feasts in Jerusalem coming along? I hear it's lovely there this time of year!

Where will you procure your sacrifice? Where and to whom will you offer it?

You state unequivocally that Jesus did not do away with any Laws, and that your righteousness comes through the Law, so tell us - how are you going to obey the Law regarding the Spring Feasts?



He is the mediator of the "chadash" covenant, there are 3 entries for this word, with 3 different meanings, anyone who knows anything about Hebrew language knows one word has one meaning not 3....
Any questions regarding the language used to describe the New Covenant in both the Old and New Testament Scriptures are addressed here:




This is another area where those who advocate that we who are in Christ come under Torah observance misrepresent the language that clearly shows that the New Covenant is indeed NEW.




Y
ahshua/Jesus now sits as High Priest in the heavens, carrying out all the duties of a High Priest:

Hebrews 9:11-12, "But the Messiah came near as a High Priest over the righteous things to come, with the great and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation; Nor through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once, for all, having obtained eternal redemption."

Hebrews 7:23-28, “And indeed, those that became priests were many, because they were prevented by death from continuing, but He, because He remains forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. Therefore He is also able to save completely those who draw near to Yah through Him, ever living to make intercession for them. For it was fitting that we should have such a High Priest – kind, innocent, undefiled, having been separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens, who does not need, as those high priests, to offer up slaughter offerings day by day, first for His own sins and then for those of the people, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. For the Torah appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath which came after the Torah, appoints the Son having been perfected forever.”
Christ sits not as 'a' high priest, but as THE High Priest of the New Covenant.

How many priests of the Old Covenant sat down?

Why does Christ sit, when they didn't, if He is mediating the Old Covenant?

Furthermore, Christ is not of the tribe of Levi, and for Him to mediate the Law given to Israel at Sinai would be a violation of that Law.

Change in Priesthood, change in Law, in this case simply because God, through the prophets, proclaimed that Christ be of the Tribe of Judah. Judah cannot mediate the Law.

Oh, and Levite priests never sat down - their work was never done. There were always more sins - their own as well as the people's - which needed for work to be done. Sacrifices after sacrifices after sacrifices . . . they were not able to sit down - again, their work was never done.

There is a stark contrast between the Levitical priesthood and the Priesthood of Christ.



For it was written long before it happened:

Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O YHWH! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will sta
nd fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."
God didn't break His Covenant, Israel did. But God did provide for a New Covenant, that was not like the Old, through the Work of Christ and by establishing Christ as the Permanent, Perfect High Priest of that New Covenant.​



Finally, unless you believe the Messiah is a liar or that heaven and earth has already passed, He said it very very clearly;

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."


Annnnd here's where you go off the rails and you can't even see it.


17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (from Mt. 5)


Taking that passage in isolation, one could make a case for the mandatory keeping of Mosaic Covenant Law for believers, because, as anyone in a Law keeping sect worth their salt will tell you, you can plainly see that the earth is still here, isn’t it? And looking around, you would have to agree, that yes indeed, the earth has not disappeared. Well that settles it then! The Law is for believers today! And to be called great in the kingdom of heaven, you must teach these commands to others, which is why you and others like you continue to attempts here.


That conclusion, however, takes leaps over information about events that had not yet happened (the Cross, Resurrection and Ascension, implementing the New Covenant in Christ) and inspired Scriptures written to the Body of Christ which did not yet exist. (Please see “The Law of Christ – Defined and Defended”, which explores whether or not believers are indeed still under the Law.)



So, according to those in Law keeping sects, the Law (every jot and tittle) MUST be followed – EXCEPT for the part that makes it potent, the punishment/enforcement jots and titles – but that’s because it was just the curse of the Law that was nailed to the Cross . . .

. . . no wait . . . that was just the oral traditions of men that was nailed . . . no . . .

. . . it had to be the curses, didn’t it? But aren’t the curses/punishment part of the jots and tittles . . .

. . . oh wait . . . what to do with those since the jots and tittles are still there . . . Law is still to be followed . . . jots and tittles because, well, the Earth IS still here, maybe all except for the curse jot and tittles is to be kept . . . .

. . . maybe that part of the Law doesn’t have jots and tittles . . . what about the sacrifices . . .

. . . oh, surely not those jots and tittles still apply . . . but it does say not one jot and tittle shall pass . . . .
??


'Round and 'round the alleged reasoning goes, but all of the arguments supporting Law ‘keeping’ cannot be argued at the same time or the really huge inconsistencies start showing themselves.


Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahanan, saw the holy city, YHWH Shammah, coming down from YHWH out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of YHWH is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and YHWH Himself will be with them, and be their Father.”

Yahshua showed us the intent and perfect way to follow the Instructions of YHWH.
Yep, Jesus magnified the Law, showing not only the requirements of the flesh, but also of the heart, making it even MORE impossible to keep, in order to point mankind to the Good News of the Work of Christ on our behalf. He accomplished what we could not - and we enter into what He did by faith.

What you are teaching is not Good News, but the ministry of condemnation.

Read 2 Cor. 3 for details.


-JGIG​
 
Jun 1, 2016
5,032
121
0
#19
Malakyah 4:1-4, “For look, the day shall come, burning like a furnace, and all the proud, and every wrongdoer shall be stubble. And the day that shall come shall burn them up,” said יהוה of hosts, “which leaves to them neither root nor branch. But to you who fear My Name the Sun of Righteousness shall arise with healing in His wings. And you shall go out and leap for joy like calves from the stall. And you shall trample the wrongdoers, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day that I do this,” said יהוה of hosts. Remember the Torah of Mosheh, My servant, which I commanded him in Ḥorĕḇ for all Yisra’ĕl – laws and right-rulings.”

Yahshua did not do away with any Laws, He performed the true intent of the Law of YHWH in His walk...


Mat 7:12-14, "Therefore, all things you want men to do to you, do the same to them, for this is (the intent of the) Law and the Prophets. Enter in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who go that way. Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leads to life, and few there are who find it."




He is the mediator of the "chadash" covenant, there are 3 entries for this word, with 3 different meanings, anyone who knows anything about Hebrew language knows one word has one meaning not 3....

Yahshua/Jesus now sits as High Priest in the heavens, carrying out all the duties of a High Priest:

Hebrews 9:11-12, "But the Messiah came near as a High Priest over the righteous things to come, with the great and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation; Nor through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once, for all, having obtained eternal redemption."

Hebrews 7:23-28, “And indeed, those that became priests were many, because they were prevented by death from continuing, but He, because He remains forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. Therefore He is also able to save completely those who draw near to Yah through Him, ever living to make intercession for them. For it was fitting that we should have such a High Priest – kind, innocent, undefiled, having been separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens, who does not need, as those high priests, to offer up slaughter offerings day by day, first for His own sins and then for those of the people, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. For the Torah appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath which came after the Torah, appoints the Son having been perfected forever.”

For it was written long before it happened:

Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O YHWH! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

Finally, unless you believe the Messiah is a liar or that heaven and earth has already passed, He said it very very clearly;

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."


Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahanan, saw the holy city, YHWH Shammah, coming down from YHWH out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of YHWH is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and YHWH Himself will be with them, and be their Father.”

Yahshua showed us the intent and perfect way to follow the Instructions of YHWH.

romans 7:4-6 "Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become DEAD TO THE LAW by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to ANOTHER, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. 5For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were BY THE LAW, did work in our members to bring forth fruit UNTO DEATH. 6But now we are DELIVERED FROM THE LAW, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter."

you are looking at it like " the law remains" and it does, the gospel is about US being removed from the laws authority because Jesus death was accounted to those who have faith in Him. when a person died under the law, the law was then gone for the dead man, the law is for the living, and the release comes through death. you need the things paul taught while keeping what you already have. You die through baptism of the spirit, when you became part of His body, you died and were raised just like Him, only in spirit.


so ? do you believe that Jesus fulfilled the Law? the first covenant and made a new covenant through Christ? I cant really tell what you are saying to be honest this one of the few times i dont really understand your position.

from what i percieve you are saying, you are adding the Mosaic law to the Christian doctrine which is why paul wrote galatians and so much about the Laws authority over CHRISTIANS. the law will remain as a witness against sinners always, it does not in anyway govern a christian. it governed the isrealites with whom God made that covenant. The 2 covenants do not mix together they are different, One is based on judgement, the other is Gods salvation from the curse. On one hand the grace alone people omit the gospel and the Law, on the other hand the Law people pmit the gospel, and the epistles.<<< the answers are found in the 4 gospels. Paul established the galatian church, one of the few He actually planted Himself, in His journey. Galatians was written because Judaizers " those claiming that christians had to adhere to the mosaic Laws in order for God to accept them. Paul comes off as " against law" because His struggle in His time was against those pushing the old covenant, onto those redeemed from it.

and absolutely God took the authority over His people away from the written law of moses, and Gave the authority to Jesus Christ His living Word. who taught several things that do not agree with the Law of moses. A christian doesnt even have to look at the Law to be fully accepted of God if they already understand " Im a sinner, my only salvation is Jesus" all of the sacrificial LAWS are fulfilled, all of the cleansing rites are fulfilled, the punishments for CHRISTIANS is fulfilled according to the Law. That entire covenant ended with the levitical priesthood. Melchezidek was well before Moses Law existed, Jesus came with what was before the Law. The priesthood of melchezidek, the law is after Jesus.


Jesus is teaching what was hidden from the creation of the world, that which was Locked up until the appointed time what was hidden. A better covenant with better promises. the Law will never make someone better as a person inside, the law remains for the rebellious and ONLY IN CHRIST is it taken away, fulfilled, and only through Christ are we saved from the wrath of the Law. The wrath of the Lamb is greater being upon the whole world, Just as Christ was given to the whole world He is that much greater than moses, and so is the wrath coming on those who reject Him. the difference is between the value of the death of a perfect animal, or the perfect son of God. salvation is greater, wrath for rejection is greater, the law is far superior to the mosaic restrictions upon sinners. without dying in Christ, and being born again through His word there is nothing but rules opposed to mankind.

I Love the Mosaic Law, but im extremely glad i am not under its authority or i would have been stoned to death years ago, being an adulterer many times over. outting a sinner to death was absolutely commanded By God, forgiving the sinner is absolutely commanded By Jesus Christ <<< the covenants are not the same One is a shadow, the other a fulfillment.

One plan of salvation from the beginning, with different stages. the law is useful in many ways for learning, but no christian is bound by it because We died, and at death the law is finished. i would suggest an in depth study of the book of romans, not looking to support your current views but prayerfully asking God to reveal His word. its very helpful as well as hebrews understanding that when Jesus died, The Law had no more authority over Him, because in the law when you are stoned to death, that is the end of the matter.

Christianity is about living a new life after the death that comes by Faith in Christ meaning faithfulness to Him. Christians need desperately to grasp " I died to the Law through the body of Christ so that i can belong to ANOTHER to Him who died and was raised again."<<< that says alot and is as true as any other principle or teaching in the Bible, His death is credited to each sinner who believes and therefore repents as He taught. The reason we need that credit of death is BECAUSE when a person dies theyu are released from the carnal commands of the mosaic Law.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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#20
Very well written post FJ however I would like to say that
i don't think the law cannot be included with the gospel because even Jesus followed the law to the T. And also David himself praised God for his laws and decrees he often times boasted how they brought joy and blessing to enrich his life and soul and he would ask of God to write his laws on his heart, David also was one of the very few men in the old testament who lived in grace as if the new testament covenant was already in.

This is why the law was not a heavy burden on his shoulders and why it isn't for us either or at least for those of us who look at the law in that light. Like David I have been blessed by the law and I also ask God to burn his commandment on my heart except it's love that compels the believer to study and follow the law not condemnation. now as for the stoning and burning that obviously isn't what I am talking about