Is it sinful to judge others for their Christian beliefs?

[BillG]

To simplify in my own words, without using Scripture, which I prefer to use Scripture, but here goes; We must as followers of Messiah know right from wrong according to the Spirit of YHWH, and we can make sure we are following the correct Spirit because everything it tells us will line up with Scripture if anything does not match Scripture, we are not in truth. So simply put, we can know how to judge rightly by Scripture. Now this does not mean judging people, however it does mean judging actions, works, walk, etc. If a brother is stealing, we a fellow followers of Messiah, know that is wrong and it is right to tell our brother that this conduct is wrong. Now stealing is an easy topic and we know some topics are not so easy talked about or approached, but the principle stays the same IMO.

Once again well said and Amen. Using scripture to judge actions, works and our walk to reveal and correct and reproof a fellow believer. To me that's wisdom as such and not judgemental. No topic should be off the table concerning our brothers and sisters in Christ, as long as we and as you say it's in the Scripture that is God's Holy Word. Then we are not judging but allowing the Holy Spirit to reveal something that someone has not yet understood

 

[Depleted]

Its rather sad isn't it? A person will seek to point out the faults in another, but won't take the time to exhort them instead, or as well. Why when/if a Christian is found to be committing a sin does a person throw judgement and condemnation instead of revelation that sets them free?

Its all good and well, noticing a brother or sister to be in sin and then giving them correction to walk as we should. However, like in your examples, people can take it too far and just because they disagree with you (in doctrine) they excommunicate you as a sinner, and not their brethren (a child of God). This is wrong, and is directly opposed to the unity God wants for His children.

The people who judge to the degree that they disqualify other's salvation based upon doctrinal differences are in error, and are blind to God's grace. These doctrinal differences, of course, not being tenets of the faith, but rather other doctrines that neither save, nor condemn you (albeit still important).

How silly will they look when they see how much they had wrong in their understanding, compared to those they judged? Not that we should rejoice at such shame, but people need to lighten up and understand that people will differ in doctrine but that doesn't make them illegitimate (as God's children). Its a difference of opinion, an opinion that does make a difference, but shouldn't break unity and fellowship. Find the common ground, and go from there. Jesus is both yours and their Lord and Savior.

Tenet, doctrine and creed are synonyms. They mean the same thing.

The Ten Commandments, Jesus was 100% God and 100% man, and the trinity are all tenets, doctrine, and/or creed.

I don't know the other word you're going for here, but I do understand what you mean. There really is a difference between doctrine/tenet and that stuff we all do. Like my denomination is big on women shouldn't be pastors. SDA is big on Saturday Sabbath. Baptists are big on full-emersion. There is that stuff too. And whatever that stuff is called, it really shouldn't divide the body to the point that we are condemning others not like us.

BUT we really need to come up with a word for that other stuff because doctrine/tenets IS the difference between a believer and a nonbeliever. It really is stuff we need to judge. It is imperatively important to distinguish between the two concepts. And it is what we are supposed to be judging.


Apparently, Ben and I don't have a word for that other stuff. Does anyone know what that word is? (Let us assume "that other stuff" is a lousy word for it. lol)

 

[Hizikyah]

Once again well said and Amen. Using scripture to judge actions, works and our walk to reveal and correct and reproof a fellow believer. To me that's wisdom as such and not judgemental. No topic should be off the table concerning our brothers and sisters in Christ, as long as we and as you say it's in the Scripture that is God's Holy Word. Then we are not judging but allowing the Holy Spirit to reveal something that someone has not yet understood

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Titus 1:9, "Holding fast the teaching according to the faithful word in order that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and to refute those who contradict."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John/Yahanan 2:4, "He who says: I know Him, but does not keep His Law, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Timothy 4:2-3, "Preach the word Be instant; ready to take your positions in season, out of season. Reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts they will heap to themselves teachers, who will tickle their ears."[/FONT]

 

[Blain]

before we get into if it's a sin to judge others we first have to understand the word judge. When many read the word judge they think of looking down upon or to condemn but the word judge is a word that can mean different things when used differently because judge also means to decide or discern.

This is one of those sensitive topics because some will post scripture showing we are to judge others with righteous judgement however again the word judge comes into play. to righteously judge or in this case discern is to have the ability to see what need work and have the wisdom to be able to explain to bother or sister what needs work and to help and encourage them in doing so.

To righteously judge another Christians belief is to righteously discern and give brotherly correction while also having the heart to receive correction where needed as well. However many will take correction as judgment for various reasons, some people hate receiving correction and will retaliate others simply misunderstand the purpose of the correction entirely and see it as an attack. Giving correction with wisdom love and maturity is greatly needed in the church and one must be prepared for all kinds of attacks for doing so but if the person giving correction is not spiritually prepared for the giving of correction then all kinds of things can go wrong.

So is it a sin to judge other Christians for their beliefs? I suppose it depends on the kind of judgment your doing

 

[BillG]

Titus 1:9, "Holding fast the teaching according to the faithful word in order that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and to refute those who contradict."


1 John/Yahanan 2:4, "He who says: I know Him, but does not keep His Law, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."


2 Timothy 4:2-3, "Preach the word Be instant; ready to take your positions in season, out of season. Reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts they will heap to themselves teachers, who will tickle their ears."[/QUOT

whats Yahanan 2:4?

 

[Depleted]

Titus 1:9, "Holding fast the teaching according to the faithful word in order that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and to refute those who contradict."


1 John/Yahanan 2:4, "He who says: I know Him, but does not keep His Law, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."


2 Timothy 4:2-3, "Preach the word Be instant; ready to take your positions in season, out of season. Reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts they will heap to themselves teachers, who will tickle their ears."

whats Yahanan 2:4?

It means John. Kind of like Juan, Jean, and Sean mean John.

 

[Desertsrose]

Church Discipline

Galatians 6:1,2

Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted. Bear one another’s burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ.

Here, the fellow believer cares enough to speak truth to his brother/sister because they care about them. If the sinner rejects that love at least as a church we cared enough to warn them. That's true brotherly love.

1 Corinthians 5:1-13
It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father’s wife. You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst.

For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world.

But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one.

For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.

Wouldn't it be great if we truly took care of our own. Church discipline is meant as a protection for all involved. And it's a blessing when done correctly. Later in 2 Corinthians it appears that this man repented of his sin and returned to fellowship in the Corinthian church.

1 Timothy 1:18-20
This command I entrust to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you fight the good fight, keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith.

Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they will be taught not to blaspheme.

Don't you guys think it is loving and kind and of great benefit to administer church discipline in love. These are example of true shepherding the flock.

Do any of you know of one or have been a part of a church that has administered church discipline according to these scriptures?

 

[samuel23]

We don't need to make personal judgments, however we need to compare what we do with the scriptures and also what other professing Christians do with the scriptures. Here is an example of a personal judgment that we are not to do, when I first begin to post in this form a particular person blasted me because in her opinion I acted like I knew too much. On the other hand, the other day a person posted in such a way that the post defended homosexuality, I felt it necessary to point out to the person that their ideas contradicted the scriptures. So there is a wrong judgment and a correct judgment.

 

[OneFaith]

1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." --Matthew 7:1-2

1 "Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters." --Romans 14:1

========================================================

Is it a sin to judge others for their Christian beliefs?

First example: I personally don't think it's a sin to have a glass of wine. Some denominations think it's sinful to have any alcohol. (I'm not talking about getting drunk--just a glass or two of wine or a beer.)

Second example: I worship on Sunday. Some denominations point to Saturday as being the Sabbath, and feel it's a sin not to set aside Saturday as the Sabbath.

Is it a sin for others to judge me as a sinner for having a glass of wine or going to Sunday church services? (No need to address the issue in this thread of whether I am sinning when I have a glass of wine or go to Sunday church services.)

I have also encountered those who take it too far. According to them, you can't drink wine at all, you can't toast at a wedding or at New Years, if you collect cans to take to bottle returns none of them can be beer bottles, you can't cook with wine, you can't eat at a restaurant that serves alcohol (wouldn't that include grocery stores?), anyways the list goes on. But all the Bible says is to not get drunk, and not to sit at the table with drunkards.

But is it right for them to even judge this in the first place? Actually, yes it is. It is correct to judge between right and wrong in yourself and in others. If this were not so, how could you who are spiritual correct your brother, or yourself, if you can't conclude right from wrong? However, it may be ok to judge the deed, but it's never ok to judge the person- only God can do that.

Let me give you a contrasting example...

A: "Yes, he shouldn't have done that. I have done things I shouldn't have done either. The problem is, if he continues down this road it will lead him away from God. I've got to talk to him and see if I can help him make wiser choices."

B: "Look what he did! He deserves to go to hell for this! I am so angry at him! He won't know when or how, but I will get him back for this."

Notice that in example A the focus is on the other person- his spiritual safety.
Notice that in example B the focus is on self- satisfying one's own anger with revenge.

You can know that you are judging the deed instead of the person if the focus is on them- concern for their soul.

So yeah, if you see someone not following scripture, it's ok to conclude that it's wrong and gently correct them with scripture and Christian love.

 

[Depleted]

Church Discipline

Galatians 6:1,2

Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted. Bear one another’s burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ.

Here, the fellow believer cares enough to speak truth to his brother/sister because they care about them. If the sinner rejects that love at least as a church we cared enough to warn them. That's true brotherly love.

1 Corinthians 5:1-13
It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father’s wife. You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst.

For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world.

But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one.

For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.

Wouldn't it be great if we truly took care of our own. Church discipline is meant as a protection for all involved. And it's a blessing when done correctly. Later in 2 Corinthians it appears that this man repented of his sin and returned to fellowship in the Corinthian church.

1 Timothy 1:18-20
This command I entrust to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you fight the good fight, keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith.

Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they will be taught not to blaspheme.

Don't you guys think it is loving and kind and of great benefit to administer church discipline in love. These are example of true shepherding the flock.

Do any of you know of one or have been a part of a church that has administered church discipline according to these scriptures?

Way back when, about five years before I joined, a church I belonged to did relieve the pastor of his pastoral office when it was discovered he was cheating on his wife.

He repented. (The marriage didn't make it.) Sadly, I think they went overboard, because he was never allowed to join the church again.

 

[JesusRules1]

1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." --Matthew 7:1-2

1 "Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters." --Romans 14:1

========================================================

Is it a sin to judge others for their Christian beliefs?

First example: I personally don't think it's a sin to have a glass of wine. Some denominations think it's sinful to have any alcohol. (I'm not talking about getting drunk--just a glass or two of wine or a beer.)

Second example: I worship on Sunday. Some denominations point to Saturday as being the Sabbath, and feel it's a sin not to set aside Saturday as the Sabbath.

Is it a sin for others to judge me as a sinner for having a glass of wine or going to Sunday church services? (No need to address the issue in this thread of whether I am sinning when I have a glass of wine or go to Sunday church services.)

Judge not lest you be judged,for however you judge another person,you will be judged that way.

Do not judge in a condemning manner,like saying you no good sinner,for we were once a sinner,and if we judge in that manner,then God will say,were you not a sinner,and our sins will not be forgiven,and while we judge in a condemning manner,we are sinning our self.If we say you no good sinner if someone steals,then God will say did not you steal.

We see it a lot among people that claim to be with Christ,that they believe that they are better than those that claim Christ that do not meet up to their standard,or view them as inferior because of their lack of knowledge,or faith,or if they think they hold a wrongful belief,or the world with their sins,when they were once without God,and did not understand,and did wrong,and it is God that saves,not ourselves.Some people tend to belittle those that they feel are in error of God's word,instead of reaching in love,and it is not their business to allow their flesh to have a go at them.

If they judge you for drinking alcohol,or going to Sunday service,with the attitude that is condemning you as being less than them,as if they never did anything wrong,then they have judged incorrectly.

We cannot look down on people for their sins,as if we are better,and they are a no good sinner,or a certain wrong doing puts them beneath someone in their eyes,for we are all sinners.

An example.

Luk 18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

1Co 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
1Co 6:4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

But we can judge,but this judgment is to be done according to the word of God,what God says concerning the matter,and His truth,which we can tell them God said it is wrong to do this,not exalting our self above them.

The Bible says the saints shall judge the world,which means the saints made it to heaven,so God will say to the world,why could you not make it,for these people made it.All humans and angels that are not right with God,the saints will judge them,for they made it to heaven,and are right with God,so there is no excuse for those that are not right with God why they could not be right with God.

The man Christ Jesus ascended to heaven,so there is no excuse for any human being why they cannot make it,for the same power is available to us to live a life pleasing to God by the Holy Spirit.

We cannot judge according to our flesh,in an exalting manner,for we all have sinned and come short of the glory of God,and it is God that cleanses us to be right with Him,where our righteousness is as filthy rags.

But we can judge according to the word of God,with love,showing them their error according to what God pointed out,and His truth,with humility,and helpfulness.

We should always keep in mind that we are all human and have sinned and come short of the glory of God,and when saved,not have the attitude that we are better as if we never sinned,and we cleansed our self.

 

[BillG]

Way back when, about five years before I joined, a church I belonged to did relieve the pastor of his pastoral office when it was discovered he was cheating on his wife.

He repented. (The marriage didn't make it.) Sadly, I think they went overboard, because he was never allowed to join the church again.

Very sad indeed. That's why people leave the church and why others stay clear of church.

We shoot our wounded rather than nurse them back to health.

 

[JaumeJ]

Jesus Christ teaches we should jusdge for ourselves what is right, and if we do not practice such we are considered hypocrites.

Here the pivotal words are "FOR OURSELVES." Maybe meditation may be needed here for some, though the words are direct.

Jesus Christ teahes that we judge not that we may not be judged for with the judgment we give, so shall we receive. This is in reference to judgin people to damnation, and no one should practice this, not in this age.

I pray this is clear.

 

[Blain]

I think that something we all can agree on is that we must first judge ourselves before we judge others, no one likes a hypocrite

 

[Desertsrose]

Way back when, about five years before I joined, a church I belonged to did relieve the pastor of his pastoral office when it was discovered he was cheating on his wife.

He repented. (The marriage didn't make it.) Sadly, I think they went overboard, because he was never allowed to join the church again.

Wow, they wen't overboard for sure. The purpose of church discipline is to restore fellowship. to not even allow him to come back to fellowship is totally not scriptural. He repented and we're to forgive 7x77.

 

[Desertsrose]

Jesus Christ teaches we should jusdge for ourselves what is right, and if we do not practice such we are considered hypocrites.

Here the pivotal words are "FOR OURSELVES." Maybe meditation may be needed here for some, though the words are direct.

Jesus Christ teahes that we judge not that we may not be judged for with the judgment we give, so shall we receive. This is in reference to judgin people to damnation, and no one should practice this, not in this age.

I pray this is clear.

I agree we are not to judge our brothers/sisters in Christ. We are to judge in a loving and kind way that would come along side of someone caught in a fault with the desire to help restore them to walking in the truth.

When Paul referred to false apostles, false prophets and false teachers he is he not judging them as a brother but as a false believer.

When Jesus taught that we would know them by their fruits, we're making a judgment as to whether or not the person is a genuine believer.

When we're warned to watch out for the false prophets/teachers we are being told to make a judgment call as to who is a genuine believer and who isn't. And then to avoid them.

When we are warned of the wolves who come to us in sheep clothing, again, we are making judgments they're on their way to hell unless they repent of their sins and are born again. As Jesus did the Pharisees and Sadducees.

They may be among us and put on a charade and look and sound like a believer, but they're not.

I know you aren't referring to this, I just thought it needed to be said in case anyone's confused.

 

[BillG]

I agree we are not to judge our brothers/sisters in Christ. We are to judge in a loving and kind way that would come along side of someone caught in a fault with the desire to help restore them to walking in the truth.

When Paul referred to false apostles, false prophets and false teachers he is he not judging them as a brother but as a false believer.

When Jesus taught that we would know them by their fruits, we're making a judgment as to whether or not the person is a genuine believer.

When we're warned to watch out for the false prophets/teachers we are being told to make a judgment call as to who is a genuine believer and who isn't. And then to avoid them.

When we are warned of the wolves who come to us in sheep clothing, again, we are making judgments they're on their way to hell unless they repent of their sins and are born again. As Jesus did the Pharisees and Sadducees.

They may be among us and put on a charade and look and sound like a believer, but they're not.

I know you aren't referring to this, I just thought it needed to be said in case anyone's confused.

Sorry a little confused, you say we are not to judge our brothers/sisters in Christ then you say we are to judge in a loving and kind way.

Maybe we are confusing judgement with loving. Judgement has a negative connotation. In certain circumstances it sure does.
God judged the world and its sin. The negative is sin that needed to be judged. To me that sin is the sin of unbelief in Jesus.


John 16:5-11
The Work of the Holy Spirit
“But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’ But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me; of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

When we think about the words of Jesus "We will know them by their fruits" What fruit is it we think he is talking about?
What If someone doesn't seem to bear the fruit that we think they should be. We are determining the fruit that should be growing. There we can get it wrong, this can be based on our thoughts, biases, upbringing.

Unfortunatley we can negate the fruit that someone has with the negative things that WE SEE AS SIN.
I smoke cigars, I was once told that I smell like the place I'm going to and that was hell. That's all they could see. They didn't see me reaching out to hurting people, walking with hurting people. I fact a very weird experience happened to me. When my wife and I went away for a weekend in a hotel that you could not smoke in I went outside much to my wife's annoyance.

When outside I started to talk to another guy having a smoke. I didn't want to talk to him but I felt God say to me to say hello. So I did, I thought he was employed to keep the grounds clean. So I said hello and asked him what time he finished.

He said I'm not an employee, then I felt God say "ask him why he is here" I said "no please not I've got a naffed wife in our room" God said "ask him"

So I did. His response was "Just out of prison and now having to do community service" I was startled and just prayed God please let me go back to my wife, please don't ask me to ask him why he went to prison.

God said "Hey Bill ask him why he went to prison" So no point arguing with God, I asked with fear.

Summary response. "I used to be a Christian, I got mixed up, messed my life, got jealous and beat someone up who tried to take my wife away, my dad was a pastor, I want to come back to God but don't know how to, I have no idea where to go"

i had had the privilege of praying with this young man in a crowded car park and see him commit his life back to Jesus and ask for forgiveness, he promised to go and find a good church.

I have not told the above to make me look good. If I was I would have dressed it up and not have shown my retisnance to obey God. Side note when I went back to the hotel room and my wife asked tersely "where you been for the last 45 minutes" when I told her she shouted Thank You God and then we prayed for him.

Im sorry if I've gone on a bit but I'm trying to make a point. Someone told me cause I smoke I smell like hell, the place I'm going to because I smoke. Further side note I smoke in my own place and not in front of Christians.

i think when we talk about the words of Jesus concerning bearing fruit we need to look at the whole passage. I will provide a link to a commentary on it.

The focus for me is the vine, the pruning. If someone remains in the vine which is Jesus, then it is God through the Holy Spirit who does the pruning in us.

He prunes to allow us to bear fruit. We need to be like him with others.
We need his wisdome to come along side people. There are genuine believers who walk in the way that is wrong, rather than condemn them we need to come alongside and get to know why.

A extreme example my be that someone who says they are a Christian but sleeps around. We need to come alongside and ask why, someone who gets drunk every night why, someone who finds it difficult to read the bible, talk to God.

such people may be part of the vine of Jesus, they remain in him despite what they are doing. They hate what they are doing, don't understand why they do what they do but don't want to do it.

if that's the case to me they are in the vine. They just need pruning, not judgement, us revealing the love of God, their sin has been judged (works of the flesh) but if you genuinely believe in Jesus, there is hope, there is healing and true forgiveness.

sorry gone on a bit. Link to follow.

The Vine and the Fruit | John 15:1-11 | RayStedman.org

 

[dcontroversal]

Did Jesus judge the beliefs and practices of the Pharisees
Did Paul judge the beliefs and practices of Peter and or the Corinthian church
Did Paul judge the religious beliefs of those who had led the Galatian church astray


There is a fine line when it comes to judging.....the problem comes when one judges based upon opinion.....we are to judge ALL things by the word of God in a non bias honest way......

The obvious answer to your bolded question is...what does the bible say?

A glass of wine is no sin unless it
a) causes a weaker brother to stumble
b) leads to drunkenness

As far as Sunday services....what does the bible say.....1st day of the week, 3rd day of the week, last day of the week is irrelevant....any day that the assembly decides to meet and worship God is acceptable.......the met daily in Acts.....so....

That is how we biblically judge....which is biblical.....anything beyond using the bible as the final say...is opinion and the traditions of men and a judgment that is wrong!

 

[oldethennew]

this would be a place where we should have our opinion validated by Jesus' written Word
in our hearts and in our Bibles -

oh boy, did we both have semi-loads of 'carnal-self-opinions', and so often we were in total 'agreement'
with someone - someone's?!?!?!
we all know where 'those-opinions came from'...

 

[Desertsrose]

Sorry a little confused, you say we are not to judge our brothers/sisters in Christ then you say we are to judge in a loving and kind way.

Maybe we are confusing judgement with loving. Judgement has a negative connotation. In certain circumstances it sure does.
God judged the world and its sin. The negative is sin that needed to be judged. To me that sin is the sin of unbelief in Jesus.


John 16:5-11
The Work of the Holy Spirit
“But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’ But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me; of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

When we think about the words of Jesus "We will know them by their fruits" What fruit is it we think he is talking about?
What If someone doesn't seem to bear the fruit that we think they should be. We are determining the fruit that should be growing. There we can get it wrong, this can be based on our thoughts, biases, upbringing.

Unfortunatley we can negate the fruit that someone has with the negative things that WE SEE AS SIN.
I smoke cigars, I was once told that I smell like the place I'm going to and that was hell. That's all they could see. They didn't see me reaching out to hurting people, walking with hurting people. I fact a very weird experience happened to me. When my wife and I went away for a weekend in a hotel that you could not smoke in I went outside much to my wife's annoyance.

When outside I started to talk to another guy having a smoke. I didn't want to talk to him but I felt God say to me to say hello. So I did, I thought he was employed to keep the grounds clean. So I said hello and asked him what time he finished.

He said I'm not an employee, then I felt God say "ask him why he is here" I said "no please not I've got a naffed wife in our room" God said "ask him"

So I did. His response was "Just out of prison and now having to do community service" I was startled and just prayed God please let me go back to my wife, please don't ask me to ask him why he went to prison.

God said "Hey Bill ask him why he went to prison" So no point arguing with God, I asked with fear.

Summary response. "I used to be a Christian, I got mixed up, messed my life, got jealous and beat someone up who tried to take my wife away, my dad was a pastor, I want to come back to God but don't know how to, I have no idea where to go"

i had had the privilege of praying with this young man in a crowded car park and see him commit his life back to Jesus and ask for forgiveness, he promised to go and find a good church.

I have not told the above to make me look good. If I was I would have dressed it up and not have shown my retisnance to obey God. Side note when I went back to the hotel room and my wife asked tersely "where you been for the last 45 minutes" when I told her she shouted Thank You God and then we prayed for him.

Im sorry if I've gone on a bit but I'm trying to make a point. Someone told me cause I smoke I smell like hell, the place I'm going to because I smoke. Further side note I smoke in my own place and not in front of Christians.

i think when we talk about the words of Jesus concerning bearing fruit we need to look at the whole passage. I will provide a link to a commentary on it.

The focus for me is the vine, the pruning. If someone remains in the vine which is Jesus, then it is God through the Holy Spirit who does the pruning in us.

He prunes to allow us to bear fruit. We need to be like him with others.
We need his wisdome to come along side people. There are genuine believers who walk in the way that is wrong, rather than condemn them we need to come alongside and get to know why.

A extreme example my be that someone who says they are a Christian but sleeps around. We need to come alongside and ask why, someone who gets drunk every night why, someone who finds it difficult to read the bible, talk to God.

such people may be part of the vine of Jesus, they remain in him despite what they are doing. They hate what they are doing, don't understand why they do what they do but don't want to do it.

if that's the case to me they are in the vine. They just need pruning, not judgement, us revealing the love of God, their sin has been judged (works of the flesh) but if you genuinely believe in Jesus, there is hope, there is healing and true forgiveness.

sorry gone on a bit. Link to follow.

The Vine and the Fruit | John 15:1-11 | RayStedman.org

Yeah, Bill, I understand what you're saying.

I'm not talking about cigars and such nonsense. I'll get to the article later, but want to comment before I do because I might not get to it until Monday.

We are to have church discipline as shown in the scriptures in one of my other posts. That's the judging that I'm speaking of when I say we are to judge.

I guess we need to look at the Greek. One word used as judge means not to condemn. So I'm not to condemn you for smoking cigars.

Another word used to judge means to prove. Judge all things, and hold fast to that which is good. That means to prove something as genuine or not genuine. We are to judge in this way.