Connection between soul and body

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trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#21
What I have found so far and seems to be most simple explanation is the pre-established harmony as tought by G.W.Leibniz.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-established_harmony

According to this view, there is no connection between soul and body at all.

If there is something better, I am eager to read about it.

So, please continue your thoughts, I am reading it, even if I do not reply to everything.

Can somebody explain for example how will we live without our bodies? What our thinking will look like without our brain? How will we see without our eyes etc? :)
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#22
If you just do not agree with the word "soul" because of Genesis or some other places, just replace the word "soul" with your immaterial "I".

I do not want to get stuck on the word "soul", but to get to the connection between the spiritual and physical parts :)
 
M

Miri

Guest
#23
What I have found so far and seems to be most simple explanation is the pre-established harmony as tought by G.W.Leibniz.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-established_harmony

According to this view, there is no connection between soul body, at all.

If there is something better, I am eager to read about it.

So, please continue your thoughts, I am reading it, even if I do not reply to everything.

Can somebody explain for example how will we live without our bodies? What our thinking will look like without our brain? How will we see without our eyes etc? :)

I dont think any of us can answer that one, we would have to die to find out.

Our current body, brain, eyes are corruptable. But everyone will be raised with an
incorruptable body.


1 Corinthians 15:35-58 NLT
[35] But someone may ask, "How will the dead be raised? What kind of bodies
will they have?" [36] What a foolish question! When you put a seed into
the ground, it doesn't grow into a plant unless it dies first. [37] And what you
put in the ground is not the plant that will grow, but only a bare seed of wheat or
whatever you are planting.

[38] Then God gives it the new body he wants it to have. A different plant grows
from each kind of seed. [39] Similarly there are different kinds of flesh-one kind
for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish.
[40] There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the
heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies. [41] The sun has
one kind of glory, while the moon and stars each have another kind. And even the
stars differ from each other in their glory.

[42] It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are
planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever. [43] Our
bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in
weakness, but they will be raised in strength. [44] They are buried as natural human
bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural
bodies, there are also spiritual bodies. [45] The Scriptures tell us, "The first man,
Adam, became a living person." But the last Adam-that is, Christ-is a life-giving Spirit.

[46] What comes first is the natural body, then the spiritual body comes later. [47] Adam,
the first man, was made from the dust of the earth, while Christ, the second man, came
from heaven. [48] Earthly people are like the earthly man, and heavenly people are
like the heavenly man. [49] Just as we are now like the earthly man, we will someday
be like the heavenly man.

[50] What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot
inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.
[51] But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be
transformed! [52] It will happen in a moment, in the blink of an eye, when the last
trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, those who have died will be raised
to live forever. And we who are living will also be transformed. [53] For our dying
bodies must be transformed into bodies that will never die; our mortal bodies must
be transformed into immortal bodies.

[54] Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never
die, this Scripture will be fulfilled: "Death is swallowed up in victory. [55] O death,
where is your victory? O death, where is your sting? " [56] For sin is the sting that
results in death, and the law gives sin its power. [57] But thank God! He gives us
victory over sin and death through our Lord Jesus Christ. [58] So, my dear brothers
and sisters, be strong and immovable. Always work enthusiastically for the Lord,
for you know that nothing you do for the Lord is ever useless.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#25
What I have found so far and seems to be most simple explanation is the pre-established harmony as tought by G.W.Leibniz.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-established_harmony

According to this view, there is no connection between soul and body at all.

If there is something better, I am eager to read about it.

So, please continue your thoughts, I am reading it, even if I do not reply to everything.

Can somebody explain for example how will we live without our bodies? What our thinking will look like without our brain? How will we see without our eyes etc? :)

Personally, I don't believe we become disembodied spirits/souls. I believe we will continue to have bodily expression.

And that's some real "out there" stuff in that link you provided.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#26
What exactly is a spirit? Or a spiritual world?

Is it a higher dimension in our universe? Or is it something behind the universe?
(Except of God who is not the part of the Universe).

Some said spirits are just "faster" like energy is just a faster mass, when it slow down, it can become visible.

It can be also related to the matter of angels having sex with women (who holds this view).

Any thoughts?
 
Nov 1, 2016
489
6
0
#27
Can somebody explain for example how will we live without our bodies?
It's all about the Seed my friend.

I don't know what it is about the word DNA that bores people or what... but it's a BIG DEAL in Scripture.

You know Seed is DNA right?

So then why aren't you studying that word in the Bible?

I guarantee your answers are there waiting for you.

Observe...

1 Corinthians 15:38
"But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body"


Every body has a seed.

Next verse...

1 Corinthians 15:39
"All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds"


DNA is different if you are a Fish a Man etc.

We know this.

But did you know...

1 Corinthians 15:40
"There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another"


Heavenly Bodies have their own DNA!

Remember... every Body has a Seed.

1 Corinthians 15:44
"It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body"

What is being said here is that our DNA lives on after death.

Now if One is willing to accept this fact, then One may find comfort in that.

Would you like to take it to another level?

Observe...

Mark 9:44
"Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched"

Mark 9:46
"Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched"

Mark 9:48
"Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched"

The Worm is another term for Seed or DNA (think Seed of the Serpent).

In other words, their **DNA** dieth not.

And the Fire is Phosphorus remember?

Don't believe me?

Believe God...

Isaiah 41:14
"Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel"


Why would Jacob be called a Worm?

Because Worm is Seed...

1 Chronicles 16:13
"O ye seed of Israel his servant, ye children of Jacob, his chosen ones"

Still not convinced?

Job 25:6
"How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?"


Jesus is a WORM!?!?

Yes... the Word of God.

DNA.

Seek and ye shall find my friend!

:)
 
Nov 1, 2016
489
6
0
#28
What exactly is a spirit? Or a spiritual world?
Whatever it is, there is one thing we know for sure.

The Spirit World is MORE REAL than ours.

In other words, we are but a shadow of it...

Hebrews 8:5
"Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount"


We are like the Flatlanders...

[video=youtube;N0WjV6MmCyM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0WjV6MmCyM&t=111s[/video]
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#29
It's all about the Seed my friend.

I don't know what it is about the word DNA that bores people or what... but it's a BIG DEAL in Scripture.
I would not say "bores", but it is quite a long shot and not found in Scripture, imho.


1 Corinthians 15:38
"But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body"


Every body has a seed.
Not "every body has a seed" but "every seed has a body".
 
Last edited:

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
586
113
#30
I did a bit of a blog on this, you can find it Here
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#32
What exactly is a spirit? Or a spiritual world?

Is it a higher dimension in our universe? Or is it something behind the universe?
(Except of God who is not the part of the Universe).

Some said spirits are just "faster" like energy is just a faster mass, when it slow down, it can become visible.

It can be also related to the matter of angels having sex with women (who holds this view).

Any thoughts?
Our self perception is embedded totally in our brains.
Whether we have a separate identity outside our brains is actually unknown.

If you see stroke patients they loose abilities to express themselves, understand
language, read, write, speak.

The term soul summarises the totality of who we are and how we express ourselves.

What I do know is I am the person looking out of my eyes and interacting with the
world. I do not appear out of someone elses eyes or interaction.

Scripture appears to separate the spiritual side of myself from my physical side, yet
they are completely linked.

The Holy Spirit dwells within us and links our hearts to the Lord.
I do wonder sometimes if it is valuable to define the undefinable.

If we were pure spirit, we would not need new bodies, so we are very much physical beings
with a spiritual side.
 
M

Miri

Guest
#33
Our self perception is embedded totally in our brains.
Whether we have a separate identity outside our brains is actually unknown.

If you see stroke patients they loose abilities to express themselves, understand
language, read, write, speak.


The term soul summarises the totality of who we are and how we express ourselves.

What I do know is I am the person looking out of my eyes and interacting with the
world. I do not appear out of someone elses eyes or interaction.

Scripture appears to separate the spiritual side of myself from my physical side, yet
they are completely linked.

The Holy Spirit dwells within us and links our hearts to the Lord.
I do wonder sometimes if it is valuable to define the undefinable.

If we were pure spirit, we would not need new bodies, so we are very much physical beings
with a spiritual side.

Re the bit in bold, that's because the messages cannot get across the brain due to
cells dying etc. But that person is still them inside. They still have personalities.
Even dementia patients still have personalities.

If you give someone with dementia a doll or a dog which reminds them of their childhood.
They act within their personality as they talk to that doll/dog etc.

Same with stroke victims, they still act true to their personality.

I actually know of someone with severe dementia, who as soon as they hear
Christian songs their whole face lights up just as it use to when they had their
full cognitive abilities. They may not understand and reason, but there is always
a small sign of who they really are buried somewhere, it just cannot get out in
the same way.


Its a terrible thing to see human beings reduced physically and mentally to a shadow.
But one day they too will have resurrected bodies and brains.
 
M

Miri

Guest
#34
There might also be an argument for saying we are really spiritual beings but with a
fleshy physical body due to the fall. :)
 
Nov 1, 2016
489
6
0
#35
What a waste of time I've spent on this thread... and on this forum.

Good luck hearing what you want to hear OP.

You want some really helpful advice?

Try and be a little more appreciative of folks willing to take time out of their busy day to help.

Base12 out.
 

bafa

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2014
178
5
18
#36
1. How does body influence our soul (for example sinful nature) and how does soul tells our body what to do (what actions to make)?
- my question is technical: how does material body interacts with non-material soul and vice versa

2. How does the status of our bodies influence the capabilities of our soul - during sleep, after some head injuries, while drunk etc people cannot process even simple thoughts - does that mean that the soul cannot do it without a body?

If so, how does sould works without a body at all (ie after death)?
peace.
i observed that the human body dynamics or dynamism glows from the soul and the Holy Spirit. without the our Holy Spirit, our soul will die; though bodies with dead soul still has a holy spirit because of it's body life which makes our body live somehow but the soul is dead. it is dead because in the other choices, some people chooses to, like sell theirself from/to/for something, they consider theirself as deadsoul or fallen; but they don't know what their talking about so i always adjust myself to them for mercy which God has given to us, us to them and them to others till they are save and regain the spirit of understanding as far as our Law from God the Creator gives.

i don't believe in zombies(vegetable body) except their bodies are sedated or lot's of health problem reasons because our body is organic.:)
 

bafa

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2014
178
5
18
#37
Our self perception is embedded totally in our brains.
Whether we have a separate identity outside our brains is actually unknown.



What I do know is I am the person looking out of my eyes and interacting with the
world. I do not appear out of someone elses eyes or interaction.
Scripture appears to separate the spiritual side of myself from my physical side, yet
they are completely linked.


The Holy Spirit dwells within us and links our hearts to the Lord.
I do wonder sometimes if it is valuable to define the undefinable.
About the world through your eyes in the world such as the internet:

there's a difference between public internet than public(world) for me, because i know that theres limit at the internet. and internet should be not use for public. i just use the internet as long as theres internet for my recreation literaly. i find this knowledge as sane:)

i think following law is a best practise for sanity and to start for wisdom and understanding.
 

bafa

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2014
178
5
18
#38
This is only internet
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#39
I dont think any of us can answer that one, we would have to die to find out.

Our current body, brain, eyes are corruptable. But everyone will be raised with an
incorruptable body.


1 Corinthians 15:35-58 NLT
[35] But someone may ask, "How will the dead be raised? What kind of bodies
will they have?" [36] What a foolish question! When you put a seed into
the ground, it doesn't grow into a plant unless it dies first. [37] And what you
put in the ground is not the plant that will grow, but only a bare seed of wheat or
whatever you are planting.

[38] Then God gives it the new body he wants it to have. A different plant grows
from each kind of seed. [39] Similarly there are different kinds of flesh-one kind
for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish.
[40] There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the
heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies. [41] The sun has
one kind of glory, while the moon and stars each have another kind. And even the
stars differ from each other in their glory.

[42] It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are
planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever. [43] Our
bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in
weakness, but they will be raised in strength. [44] They are buried as natural human
bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural
bodies, there are also spiritual bodies. [45] The Scriptures tell us, "The first man,
Adam, became a living person." But the last Adam-that is, Christ-is a life-giving Spirit.

[46] What comes first is the natural body, then the spiritual body comes later. [47] Adam,
the first man, was made from the dust of the earth, while Christ, the second man, came
from heaven. [48] Earthly people are like the earthly man, and heavenly people are
like the heavenly man. [49] Just as we are now like the earthly man, we will someday
be like the heavenly man.

[50] What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot
inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.
[51] But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be
transformed! [52] It will happen in a moment, in the blink of an eye, when the last
trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, those who have died will be raised
to live forever. And we who are living will also be transformed. [53] For our dying
bodies must be transformed into bodies that will never die; our mortal bodies must
be transformed into immortal bodies.

[54] Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never
die, this Scripture will be fulfilled: "Death is swallowed up in victory. [55] O death,
where is your victory? O death, where is your sting? " [56] For sin is the sting that
results in death, and the law gives sin its power. [57] But thank God! He gives us
victory over sin and death through our Lord Jesus Christ. [58] So, my dear brothers
and sisters, be strong and immovable. Always work enthusiastically for the Lord, for you know that nothing you do for the Lord is ever useless.
thanks for posting this, and in this version.
it was very helpful at this reading.
God Bless
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,248
25,719
113
#40
There might also be an argument for saying we are really spiritual beings but with a
fleshy physical body due to the fall. :)
That does not really pan out Scripturally, though, for Adam was formed of the dust of the ground, which means the physical elements of the earth, and he became a living soul when God breathed the breath of life into him. This preceded the fall, by how much time we are not told... but they had already been told to go forth and multiply before the fall, and they were also given dominion over all other living creatures before the fall.