REVELATION

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Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
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Greetings Joshua,

Yes, I have heard of this hadron collider before, but never applied it to the opening of the Abyss. Thank you for sharing this. Though it is an interesting theory, it is important to pay attention to the details given in scripture. That said, John says that he sees an angel that has fallen from heaven to the earth and he has a key with which to open the shaft of the Abyss. We must also remember that this is just one event of three sets of seven plagues of wrath which Jesus is initiating and therefore these events are not something that is caused by mankind.

Also, as mentioned above, the angel has a key to unlock the Abyss, whether it is a spiritual key or a material key, that is irrelevant. For whatever the substance of the key, it is required to unlock the Abyss. If we to apply this hadron collider as being what opens the dimension for those demonic beings to come out of the Abyss, then we would also have to consider the following:

"Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the Abyss, holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, the ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. And he threw him into the Abyss, shut it, and sealed it over him, so that he could not deceive the nations until the thousand years were complete. After that, he must be released for a brief period of time."

As can be seen from the scripture above, at the end of the tribulation period, when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, another angel has been given the key to the Abyss to lock it back up, which will have remained open from 5th seal until the Lord's return. If we were to apply the hadron collider theory, we would have to ignore the information regarding the angel who unlocks the Abyss, as well as this angel who throws Satan into the Abyss and locks it back up. We would also have to have an answer as to how human beings could use a hadron collider to put Satan into the Abyss. Keep in mind also that, at the time that the Lord returns to end the age, the earth will be in complete ruin and the majority of the population will have been decimated. My point being that, this hadron collider would no longer be in operation and there would most likely be no one to operate it.

In keeping with scripture, I personally believe that the seven sets of plagues of wrath, the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, will be performed by God through his angels, opposed to crediting mankind as being the initiator of God's wrath.
Ok yeah I see what you're getting at...but wouldn't it be the same relationship as is described in the first chapters of Revelation?

What I mean is, in the first chapters of Revelation Christ sends 7 letters to the seven angels of the seven churches. We already understand that those letters are for Christ's people in one way or another, and yet they were addressed to the angels presiding over those churches. We know we're currently in one of those churches right now (whether you believe in church ages or not), and yet no one has ever visually witnessed an actual angel leading any congregation.

So isn't it possible that this set the precedent/pattern; that whenever we read of an angel in the events of Revelation that that's simply what's happening on the *spiritual side* (i.e. behind the scenes) of the world, and still has to unfold on the *physical side* through natural means?

Like for instance, let's take the angel and the abyss scene:

In Revelation 9:1-2 & 11 we read that an angel/star falls {Greek "peptōkota"} from heaven with the key to the abyss...while in Revelation 20:1 we read that an angel descends {Greek "katabainonta"} out of heaven with a key to the abyss and a great chain.

If we pay attention to the details these are two different actions by two different angels:

- one angel fell from heaven (connotes an "unwillingness" to leave) and unlocks the pit
- one angel descends from heaven (connotes a "willingness" to leave) and seals the pit

And interestingly we know that satan is described as an angel "falling from heaven" having great wrath. When Christ's disciples returned celebrating that they commanded demons in his name, Christ said he saw satan fall like lightning, yet no one saw that but him.

So isn't it possible that satan could be this fallen angel, full of wisdom, who has the "key" to (i.e. "knowledge" of) opening the abyss and freeing his comrades; knowledge that he whispers to man? All the world is currently his anyway, not because we've seen him going around conquering but because he controls it spiritually through fallen man.

And so likewise the closing of the abyss could simply be the destruction of the machine and deaths of all those who would listen to satan. If there's no one alive willing to listen to satan anymore, until they resurrect in the 2nd resurrection (after 1000 years), then he's effectively bound in great chains unable to deceive anyone.

See what I mean?
 

88

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2016
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REVELATION CHAPTER 10****** more to come, but consider these questions: 1. What is the purpose of the Tribulation? 2. What is God doing with Israel during the Tribulation? 3. Why is the Church and Body of Christ not mentioned in the Tribulation? 4. Are you prepared for the Rapture? 5. If you believe the Church goes into the Tribulation, what purpose does it serve?
 

88

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2016
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REVELATION 10:1-6 ****a parenthetic passage occurring between the 6th and 7th trumpet in the Tribulation***** "And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud; and a rainbow as upon his head, and his face was as though it were the sun, and his feet like pillars of fire. And he had in his hand a little scroll open; and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, And cried with a loud vioce, as when a lion roareth; and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices. And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write; and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not. And the angel whom I saw standing upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And swore by him that liveth forever and ever, who created heaven and the things that are in it, and the earth and the things that are in it, and the sea and the things which are in it, that there should be delay no longer;" *********more to come...
 

88

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2016
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REVELATION 10:7-11 *****continuing the parenthetical passage which is things happening between the 6th and 7th trumpet****"But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants, the prophets. And the voice which I heard from heaven spoke unto me again, and said, Go and take the little scroll which is open in the hand of the angel who standeth upon the sea and upon the earth. And I went unto the ange, and said unto him, Give me the little scroll. And he said unto me, Take it and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but is shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey. And I took the little scroll out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey, and as soon as I had eaten it my belly was bitter. And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again about many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings." ******more to come...
 

88

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2016
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REVELATION 10:1-6 ****a parenthetic passage occurring between the 6th and 7th trumpet in the Tribulation***** "And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud; and a rainbow as upon his head, and his face was as though it were the sun, and his feet like pillars of fire. And he had in his hand a little scroll open; and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, And cried with a loud vioce, as when a lion roareth; and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices. And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write; and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not. And the angel whom I saw standing upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And swore by him that liveth forever and ever, who created heaven and the things that are in it, and the earth and the things that are in it, and the sea and the things which are in it, that there should be delay no longer;" *********more to come...
***This mighty Angel is Christ Himself coming to possess the Earth ( the little scroll is the title deed to the Earth) He cried with a loud voice as many Scriptures refer to Him Roaring out of Zion as a Mighty Warrior (Jeremiah 25:30; Hosea 11:10; Joel 3:16)***the 7 Thunder utter their voices speaking a sealed message which will be held until that day***the time has come for the Lord to finish His destruction of the works of darkness (no more delay)...
 

88

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2016
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REVELATION 10:7-11 *****continuing the parenthetical passage which is things happening between the 6th and 7th trumpet****"But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants, the prophets. And the voice which I heard from heaven spoke unto me again, and said, Go and take the little scroll which is open in the hand of the angel who standeth upon the sea and upon the earth. And I went unto the ange, and said unto him, Give me the little scroll. And he said unto me, Take it and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but is shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey. And I took the little scroll out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey, and as soon as I had eaten it my belly was bitter. And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again about many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings." ******more to come...
***The seventh angel sounding will finish this mystery which is Christ's destruction of Satan's kingdom and the start of His Reign on Earth***John takes the little scroll from Christ and eats it; being sweet in his mouth, but bitter in his belly and having consumed God's Word he will yet prophesy...
 

88

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2016
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***The seventh angel sounding will finish this mystery which is Christ's destruction of Satan's kingdom and the start of His Reign on Earth***John takes the little scroll from Christ and eats it; being sweet in his mouth, but bitter in his belly and having consumed God's Word he will yet prophesy...
*** how sweet is God's Word to our mouths, but how bitter is its rejection; the Tribulation shows this fact*** now is the time to abide in that sweetness, but don't forget the bitter consequences of those rejecting Christ...
 
Dec 2, 2016
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Hi 88: Glad you asked. The purpose of the tribulation is to fulfill the words of Jesus Christ in Matt 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21. In these areas of the bible Jesus described what the tribulation was, a time of war, famine, disease, great shakings, and great persecution against those who believe in Jesus Christ. It is called the great tribulation because it is a great time of persecution of the church. After this period of time is over then Jesus will appear in the sky and gather the church, after this then God will begin to pour out His wrath on the earth. This gathering of the saints is worldwide as described by Jesus.
 
P

popeye

Guest
Actually the purpose of the GT is repentance. To get them to repent.

The wrath on the Egyptians in exodus was to show the world His great power and awesomeness.
 

88

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2016
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REVELATION 11:1-10 "And there was given me a reed like a rod; and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship in it. But the court, which is outside the temple, leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the nations, and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouths, and devoureth their enemies; and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy; and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. And they of the peoples and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and a half, and shall not permit their dead bodies to be put in graves. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another, because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on earth." ****more to come*** Some questions to consider: 1. Why did John measure the temple? 2. Why do these two witnesses have power to do destructive miracles? 3. When do the two witnesses prophesy during the Tribulation (1st half or 2nd half)...?
 

88

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2016
3,517
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REVELATION 11:1-10 "And there was given me a reed like a rod; and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship in it. But the court, which is outside the temple, leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the nations, and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouths, and devoureth their enemies; and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy; and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. And they of the peoples and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and a half, and shall not permit their dead bodies to be put in graves. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another, because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on earth." ****more to come*** Some questions to consider: 1. Why did John measure the temple? 2. Why do these two witnesses have power to do destructive miracles? 3. When do the two witnesses prophesy during the Tribulation (1st half or 2nd half)...?
***God has the temple measured, and the altar, and the people for God is involved in our lives to weigh us and measure us*** this can be for judgment (sinners) and for fruitfulness***this Tribulation Temple will be part of the last 1260 days along with the Two Witnesses who are like Old Testament prophets who bring down fire even as Elijah did to two groups of 50 soldiers trying to take him*** a time of judgment that precedes Christ's Second Coming*** they cannot be killed until they finish their work*** the Church is gone and not involved in this judgment, for even James and John wanted to call down fire on Christ's enemies*** Jesus rebuked them for this spirit ( Sons of Thunder), for Christ came to save, the Church is in the Saving Biusiness, not judgment which was reserved for the Tribulation Period***these 2 witnesses are raised from the dead and ascend to heaven...
 
Apr 15, 2017
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I know it is a large, debated topic. But I wanted to start a thread for people to freely share their thoughts, convictions and questions etc on the last book given to us by the last surviving apostle at the time...John.

Exiled and a prisoner on the island of Patmos, he received this message.

Let's hear it, y'all.
The book of Revelation is about the revealing of Jesus Christ to the world,which the Bible says there will come a day that the mystery of God will be finished.

There will come a day that the world will know about God,and it will be a mystery no more to the world.

The time for God to put down the world,and the millennial reign of Christ to occur,and then the saints at the New Jerusalem,the final destination of the saints.

God has to one day end this sin business of earth.God is love,and will not give up on the world until the world gives up on Him,and will give the world a certain amount of time,and cause all people who do not love Him to follow the beast kingdom,and when they take the mark of the beast,then repentance,and salvation,is no longer available to them,and they will make war against the saints,in which they will be gathered unto Christ,and when they attack Israel,then God will come back with His saints,and defeat the world,and save Israel,and Jesus and the saints will rule over one sixth of the world that fought against Israel,for 1000 years,and at the end of that time,the earth,and heaven,will pass away,and will not be remembered,or come to mind,and the saints will dwell in the New Jerusalem,a place where sin has never been,and sin will never be.

The main thing about the book of Revelation is the time that God will allow the world to have their way,and rebel against the truth,and when they take the mark of the beast,then God can go against them,and end this sin business on earth,and Jesus being revealed to the world,and the mystery of God will be finished,for everybody will then know the truth,but with the rebellious it is too late.

The 6 seals,and the 6 trumpets,as things that take place leading up to the beast kingdom,with the 6 trumpets being 6 warnings,disasters that the world knows about,but instead of the world repenting of their sins,and turning to God,the world keeps trying to solve their problems by their own effort,so after the 6th trumpet,God gives the world the man of sin to rule over them,and he deceives all how do not love God to follow the beast kingdom,and take the mark.

The beginning of the period that God will cause the world to have their way,and cause all people who do not love Him to go towards the beast kingdom,and accept it,is when the man of sin establishes peace in the Middle East,which is when they will say Peace and safety,and the world will come together in the ten horn kingdom,the world split in to ten sections,with a leader in each section,and the world will be together trying to establish peace on earth,with the unified religious system based on the format of the new age movement,the occult,nature worship,and spiritual evolution.

When they say Peace and safety,Paul said the elect will not be deceived by that for they will know it is not of God,and the world is eventually going to rebel against God,by cutting Him out of the picture,for the beast kingdom acknowledges no personal God,but honor the God of forces,or the power of nature as their God,and is in to spiritual evolution through nature,and when they say Peace and safety,it will be a temptation that shall come upon the whole world,to try all them that dwell on earth,for it will be a point of decision for the world,but Jesus said He will deliver all the elect from that temptation,which Paul said they will not be deceived when they say Peace and safety,but all those that are not abiding in the truth,whether claiming Christ or not,will be tempted by it,but it is not a forcing on people,but a temptation,and will be a decision point for the world,which many people claiming Christ not abiding in the truth,may be able to beat that temptation,and straighten up,which I believe that many people that claim the Roman Catholic Church will leave her,as the Vatican and the Pope go along with them when they say Peace and safety,and many hypocrites will get right.

The beast kingdom will persecute all people who hold the testimony that Jesus is Lord and Savior,and when the gathering of the saints unto Christ happens,they will go against Israel,for God turned the nation of Israel to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah,and that is when God will put them down,and end this sin business on earth.
 
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J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
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Jesus comes in two phases.

First time as the suffering servant, the sacrificial lamb, the second time as King of Kings.

The New Testament depicts Jesus' life, which was as the sacrificial lamb slain for all the world's sins.

Revelation depicts Jesus being worthy to ascend the Throne as King of Kings.
 

88

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2016
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Revelation 11:11-19 **** "And after three days and a half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet, and great fear fell upon them who saw them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up here. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies beheld them. And the same hour was there a great earthquake and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand; and the remnant were terrified, and gave glory to the God of heaven. The second woe is past and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdom this world is become the kingdom of our Lord, and his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, who sat before God on their thrones, fell upon their faces, and worshiped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, who art, and wast, and art to come, because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants, the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great, and shouldest destroy them who destroy the earth. And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his covenant; and there were lightenings, and voices, and thunderclaps, and an earthquake, and great hail." ****more to come...
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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"But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.” - Rev.10:7

The 7th trumpet is sounded.

Pre-event declaration: (aorist tense)

"The kingdom of this world [is become] the kingdom of our Lord, and his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever." - Rev.11:15

The results of the 7th trumpet/3rd Woe:
"The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him." - Rev.12:9

Post-declaration after Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven:
"Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah. For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down. - Rev.12:10

At the sounding of the 7th trumpet/3rd Woe, the ownership of the kingdom of the world, legally reverts from Satan's possession back to God and His Christ. This is the mystery that the angel in Rev.10:7 was referring to.

"The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. If you worship me, it will all be yours." Luke 4:5-6

The authority of the world was originally given to Adam and Eve and all of mankind. But when they disobeyed God, the legal rights of ownership fell to Satan, as can be seen from the scripture above which says "it has been given to me." The kingdom of the world is still currently under the ownership of Satan. At the sounding of the 7th trumpet, the ownership will revert back to God, with Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven and the saints will posses it forever and ever.

It is the process of the emancipation of the earth. The seven bowl judgments will follow the 7th trumpet, where at which time the Lord will return to the earth and take full ownership. - Rev.19:11-21
 
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abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
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Revelation 11:11-19 **** "And after three days and a half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet,

The 2 witnesses (2Ws), are the people of the natural branches, the nation Israel, who are now restored to Jerusalem.

They are killed by the beast, but not directly.

The 4th beast nation (iron legs), deceives the Kings of the East into doing the actual fighting, because the Roman Beast is only the "image" of it's former self, the Roman Empire, now the Vatican.

(After thinking long about what the actual deception is (Rev 16:13), there is a possibility, that the Vatican will endorse the attack on Israel and Jerusalem by Iran and it's allies. Maybe the deal would include land or recognition of the RCC as the only true church (Israel).

-----

This 3 1/2 day period is very significant. It means that there is another 3 1/2 days somewhere, either before or after. I assume that it will take 3 1/2 days of siege to take Jerusalem completely. (soon)

Funny thing, I think that Islam teaches that Jesus? returns 3 1/2 days after Iran conquers Jerusalem also.

-----

The 2ws ( the people of Israel) lie in the streets and stand on their feet. (If your not a Christian at this point, It's too late) The resurrection of His coming is occurring 1 Cor 15:23-24. We will see this on TV and then be caught up with Him when we here Jesus call us.


and great fear fell upon them who saw them.

These people now realize that they have killed God's people and God's "wrath" is coming. They have been celebrating the death of the people of Israel for 3 1/2 days.


And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up here. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies beheld them.

Praise Jesus, we will ever be with our Lord !


And the same hour

After the resurrection (2nd, final), they will see the "stone" coming, an asteroid, as far as I can tell. Also known as the fire from heaven in Rev 20:9.


was there a great earthquake and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand;

1/10, The first fruits of all those who die when planet earth is destroyed are in Jerusalem.

7000, all the people. Remember that all the Christians are with Jesus now, the ones who are left have rejected Jesus.

Basically, it is saying that the asteroid is a direct hit on Jerusalem.


and the remnant were terrified, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Lk 23:47, Mk 15:39, The Centurion at the cross gave glory to God also, but too late, too late!


The second woe is past and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

This brings the story back to the trumpet side.


And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdom this world is become the kingdom of our Lord, and his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.

Dan. 2:35, This verse is showing the same thing. Jesus harvests the kingdom and this material world ends.

This show Jesus taking possession of His kingdom. After this, Jesus delivers the kingdom up to the Father.


And the four and twenty elders, who sat before God on their thrones, fell upon their faces, and worshiped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, who art, and wast, and art to come, because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come,
and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants, the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great,

Judgement of the resurrected.


and shouldest destroy them who destroy the earth.

This would be everyone who is not with Jesus after the resur.


And the temple of God was opened in heaven,

Opened so that men may enter? Rev 15:8 (parallel events on the time line)


and there was seen in his temple the ark of his covenant;

Think about this. It means that we are looking into the heart of God, do you understand what this implies? We cannot see His face and live, but we see past that, into the heart of God.


and there were lightenings, and voices, and thunderclaps, and an earthquake, and great hail." ****more to come...

This is the earthquake and hail of the 7th plague Rev 16:17-21. This destroyes the planet.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
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Rev 11:19, There was seen...the ark of his testament.

Think about this. It means that we are looking into the heart of God, do you understand what this implies? We cannot see His face and live, but we see past that, into the heart of God.

This is the mystery of God revealed Rev 10:7.