There Is No God's Service In Killing People

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Enow

Banned
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
0
#1
Whoever is out there, thinking about killing any one in the name of God or provoked enough to kill someone, Jesus has this to say.

John 16:1These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.[SUP]2 [/SUP]They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.[SUP]3[/SUP]And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

What would Jesus have you do?

Matthew 5:[SUP]38 [/SUP]Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:[SUP]39 [/SUP]But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.........
[SUP]43 [/SUP]Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.[SUP]44 [/SUP]But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;[SUP]45 [/SUP]That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.[SUP]46 [/SUP]For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?[SUP]47 [/SUP]And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?[SUP]48 [/SUP]Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Jesus has set the example of longsuffering for us to serve as a pattern for those that would come to believe in Him, even the worst of all sinners.

1 Peter 2:
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.[SUP]20 [/SUP]For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.[SUP]21 [/SUP]For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:[SUP]22 [/SUP]Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:[SUP]23 [/SUP]Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:[SUP]24 [/SUP]Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.[SUP]25 [/SUP]For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

1 Timothy 1:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.[SUP]15 [/SUP]This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.[SUP]16 [/SUP]Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

If you have knowledge of someone planning to kill people for whatever the reason, call the authorities now. If you cannot talk the others down by His words in the hopes that Jesus will deliver them from the devil having a grip on their anger, then call for help for that person or those people.

Ephesians 4:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.[SUP]26 [/SUP]Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:[SUP]27 [/SUP]Neither give place to the devil.[SUP]28 [/SUP]Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.[SUP]29 [/SUP]Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.[SUP]30 [/SUP]And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.[SUP]31 [/SUP]Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:[SUP]32 [/SUP]And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

May all those who are angry enough to kill, pray to Jesus Christ now for help & He will deliver you.

Romans 12:
[SUP]18 [/SUP]If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.[SUP]19 [/SUP]Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.[SUP]20 [/SUP]Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.[SUP]21 [/SUP]Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#2
Whoever is out there, thinking about killing any one in the name of God or provoked enough to kill someone, Jesus has this to say.

John 16:1These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.[SUP]2 [/SUP]They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.[SUP]3[/SUP]And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

What would Jesus have you do?

Matthew 5:[SUP]38 [/SUP]Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:[SUP]39 [/SUP]But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.........
[SUP]43 [/SUP]Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.[SUP]44 [/SUP]But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;[SUP]45 [/SUP]That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.[SUP]46 [/SUP]For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?[SUP]47 [/SUP]And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?[SUP]48 [/SUP]Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Jesus has set the example of longsuffering for us to serve as a pattern for those that would come to believe in Him, even the worst of all sinners.

1 Peter 2:
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.[SUP]20 [/SUP]For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.[SUP]21 [/SUP]For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:[SUP]22 [/SUP]Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:[SUP]23 [/SUP]Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:[SUP]24 [/SUP]Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.[SUP]25 [/SUP]For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

1 Timothy 1:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.[SUP]15 [/SUP]This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.[SUP]16 [/SUP]Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

If you have knowledge of someone planning to kill people for whatever the reason, call the authorities now. If you cannot talk the others down by His words in the hopes that Jesus will deliver them from the devil having a grip on their anger, then call for help for that person or those people.

Ephesians 4:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.[SUP]26 [/SUP]Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:[SUP]27 [/SUP]Neither give place to the devil.[SUP]28 [/SUP]Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.[SUP]29 [/SUP]Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.[SUP]30 [/SUP]And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.[SUP]31 [/SUP]Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:[SUP]32 [/SUP]And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

May all those who are angry enough to kill, pray to Jesus Christ now for help & He will deliver you.

Romans 12:
[SUP]18 [/SUP]If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.[SUP]19 [/SUP]Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.[SUP]20 [/SUP]Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.[SUP]21 [/SUP]Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
The whole book of Joshua...........
 

Enow

Banned
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
0
#3
The whole book of Joshua...........
The Book of Joshua is not in the New Testament and Jesus has said that things were different now in Matthew 5:38-39 & Matthew 5:43-48 so that the Book of Joshua of the O.T. does not apply any more in applying to our walk with Him in how we deal with our enemies.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#4
I wasn't thinking of killing anyone one until this thread. Funny how that works.....
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#5
The Book of Joshua is not in the New Testament and Jesus has said that things were different now in Matthew 5:38-39 & Matthew 5:43-48 so that the Book of Joshua of the O.T. does not apply any more in applying to our walk with Him in how we deal with our enemies.
I am the Lord thy God, I change not therefore you Sons of Jacob are not consumed......I suggest Zechariah and the end of the age....

Solomon....A time to kill and a time to heal

Jesus...Sell what you have and go buy a sword

And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the LORD of hosts their God. In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah. In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them. And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

There are times and extenuating circumstances that occasionally arise that allow for one to use violence in defense of one's life, family, friends, believers etc..........

This has no bearing on loving our enemies and doing good....as there is a balance to be struck! IMO
 
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trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#6
There are actually Christians who are thinking about killing any one in the name of God?

I am quite certain there are not any.
 

Enow

Banned
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
0
#7
What are saints supposed to do during the great tribulation when war is upon them?

Revelation 13:[SUP]9 [/SUP]If any man have an ear, let him hear.[SUP]10 [/SUP]He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Of all times to kill as a christian, you would think those having received the mark that have been condemned by God to go to the lake of fire, you would think that would be the time to do it, but no.

Our government bears the sword not in vain as it is used to deter evil, but individual christians or groups of christians are not to kill.

And when Peter had cut off the ear with one of those swords, Jesus stopped him and healed the servant of the high priest.

Matthew 26:
[SUP]51 [/SUP]And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.[SUP]52 [/SUP]Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.[SUP]53 [/SUP]Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

John 18:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.[SUP]11 [/SUP]Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

And since Jesus said this to Pilate at the trial....

John 18:[SUP]36 [/SUP]Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

When Jesus comes back to set up His kingdom on earth as the King of kings, He will have vengeance then... and He will come back with the raptured saints and then His servants will fight because His kingdom is coming to earth, but not before.

So anyone using this reference about buying a sword....He was not talking about using it.

Luke 22:
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.[SUP]37 [/SUP]For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

Since christians are not to wage war back in taking captive or to kill during the great tribulation, then we are certainly not to do so now. We all need His help to deliver us from the devil having a grip on our anger, because that enemy may be a future brother or sister in Christ.

John 3:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.[SUP]16 [/SUP]For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.[SUP]17 [/SUP]For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
 

Enow

Banned
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
0
#9
There are actually Christians who are thinking about killing any one in the name of God?

I am quite certain there are not any.
Some would point to the crusades that christians do and have killed.

Therefore, if any one was misleading christians to hate muslims to kill them or a christian not grounded in the word is misleading himself or herself to do that, then hopefully, the Lord will lead them to read His words in this thread so that they may call on Him for help to deliver them from hatred & malice which is a work of the flesh and apply His love to forgive others as He has forgiven them.

And some christians have been misled to hate the Jews because they had crucified Jesus Christ, but they should know no one took His life as He gave His life as a ransom for many.

John 10:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.[SUP]18 [/SUP]No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

I hope this message gets to the groups of people desecrating the tombstones of Jewish graves as well.
 
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trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#10
Some would point to the crusades that christians do and have killed.

Therefore, if any one was misleading christians to hate muslims to kill them or a christian not grounded in the word is misleading himself or herself to do that, then hopefully, the Lord will lead them to read His words in this thread so that they may call on Him for help to deliver them from hatred & malice which is a work of the flesh and apply His love to forgive others as He has forgiven them.

And some christians have been misled to hate the Jews because they had crucified Jesus Christ, but they should know no one took His life as He gave His life as a ransom for many.

John 10:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.[SUP]18 [/SUP]No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

I hope this message gets to the groups of people desecrating the tombstones of Jewish graves as well.
1. There were many crusades (too many, actually), some were just regular wars with islamic hordes, some were really antichristian rallies and massacres
2. The question is, whether they were real Christians, the ones who wanted to kill, rape and steal, hm?
 

Utah

Banned
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
251
0
#11
The OP is noble in essence, but impractical when evil exists. We have God's blessings to protect righteousness and innocence.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#12
The OP is noble in essence, but impractical when evil exists. We have God's blessings to protect righteousness and innocence.
By becoming unrighteous and guilty? :)
 

Utah

Banned
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
251
0
#13
By becoming unrighteous and guilty? :)
It's unrighteous to defend people? If you must absolutely, undeniably and unequivocally resort to killing someone in order to protect innocence, then the one who was killed was deserving of it. There's no guilt in such action.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#14
The OP is noble in essence, but impractical when evil exists. We have God's blessings to protect righteousness and innocence.

The reason/s "affairs' of men", (trickle down, so to speak), are brought forth to "material/flesh/physical" manifestations? Is in DIRECT Confluence to Spiritual battles/wars fought and lost, or won in the Spiritual/Heavenly realms!

WHEN these battles and wars are brought forth TO resorting to physical manifestation?....This is (merely) ONE of Our Father's TELLS, that means: "Yer NOT doing something (and in many cases...many) things correctly!"....OH!...How wondrous is Our Father's Loving Kindness is, inasmuch that He supplies His children with means and ways, of ENDURING eradication from off the face of the earth!
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,424
113
#15
The Book of Joshua is not in the New Testament and Jesus has said that things were different now in Matthew 5:38-39 & Matthew 5:43-48 so that the Book of Joshua of the O.T. does not apply any more in applying to our walk with Him in how we deal with our enemies.
If Jesus is God and God the Father is God, how can you say that God told God that God made all different now? Mat 5:38
"You have heard that it was said, An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.
Mat 5:39
But I tell you, don't resist an evildoer. On the contrary, if anyone slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
Christ was making a commentary on scripture, not changing it. God had given people the rules of the universe for justice, to stop people from being unjust so severing a hand was done for stealing an apple.

If you don't believe or try to understand the words of God (the Father) in the light of the culture they were written in so you find the spiritual meaning then you can't understand the words of God (the Son) when He explains the words of God (the Father).


 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#16
It's unrighteous to defend people? If you must absolutely, undeniably and unequivocally resort to killing someone in order to protect innocence, then the one who was killed was deserving of it. There's no guilt in such action.
OP: "Whoever is out there, thinking about killing any one in the name of God..." is the defence of people? How?

And how do you define "innocence"? :) In killing, one guilty sinner killed another guilty sinner and add a killing to the guilt.
 

lastofall

Senior Member
Aug 26, 2014
609
38
28
#17
"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment.." (Matthew 5:21-22)

"We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:14-15)

"My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight,.." (John 18:36)
 

Enow

Banned
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
0
#18
1. There were many crusades (too many, actually), some were just regular wars with islamic hordes, some were really antichristian rallies and massacres
2. The question is, whether they were real Christians, the ones who wanted to kill, rape and steal, hm?
I am not saying that they were not christians, but they certainly were not abiding in Him as His disciples. Any of those crusade that misled believers into thinking that God wants that crusade, have not read His words to know that He would never sanctioned it for christians to undertake as christians.


 

Enow

Banned
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
0
#19
The OP is noble in essence, but impractical when evil exists. We have God's blessings to protect righteousness and innocence.
This is not addressing christians that serve the government in the armed forces and the policing authorities.

Romans 13:1
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.[SUP]2 [/SUP]Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.[SUP]3 [/SUP]For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:[SUP]4 [/SUP]For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.[SUP]5 [/SUP]Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

This is addressing the individual's or group's response that thinks they are doing God's service by killing others now.
 

Enow

Banned
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
0
#20
If Jesus is God and God the Father is God, how can you say that God told God that God made all different now? Mat 5:38
"You have heard that it was said, An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.
Mat 5:39
But I tell you, don't resist an evildoer. On the contrary, if anyone slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
Christ was making a commentary on scripture, not changing it. God had given people the rules of the universe for justice, to stop people from being unjust so severing a hand was done for stealing an apple.

If you don't believe or try to understand the words of God (the Father) in the light of the culture they were written in so you find the spiritual meaning then you can't understand the words of God (the Son) when He explains the words of God (the Father).


The Old Covenant puts the emphasis on man to be and live as His chosen people. Failing that, now it is God's turn and so it is not God telling God that things will be different, but God telling man you blew it and now it is My turn.

He will have vengeance.... we are to trust Him to help us give our anger over to Him and love our enemies now in the hopes that they may come to the knowledge of Him and be saved.

Jesus did not come into the world to condemn the world, but that they may be saved through Him by believing in Him.

The author of Amazing Grace was a murderer of someone in a bar as well as a sailor on a slave ship that tossed slaves over at one time to save the ship from sinking in a terrible storm. Then Jesus saved him.

So the most despicable sinner out there, even a muslim who hates every non-muslim and muslim not of his sect, and enjoys killing them, God the Father may yet reveal His Son to him so that he may believe in Him and be saved, and sin no more by killing others.