Sinners?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#21
A sinner is counted as guilty of sin.
A saint is a sinner who has been forgiven of their sin and walks with God.

So we were all sinners, we may also be saints if our sin has been forgiven and we walk with God.

A murderer is called a murderer because they murdered someone in the
past and were found guilty.

If as sinner we are now innocent of sin, then we are now saints.

Ezek 18:21-22
But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#22
A sinner is counted as guilty of sin.
A saint is a sinner who has been forgiven of their sin and walks with God.

So we were all sinners, we may also be saints if our sin has been forgiven and we walk with God.

A murderer is called a murderer because they murdered someone in the
past and were found guilty.

If as sinner we are now innocent of sin, then we are now saints.

Ezek 18:21-22
But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live.
David was saved when he took Bathsheba and murdered Uriah..
 
Last edited:

88

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2016
3,517
77
48
#23
David was saved when he took Bathsheba and murdered Uriah..
**** yes, but he was heading for trouble if he had rejected the word of the prophet--- thou art the man...
 
Dec 9, 2011
13,703
1,715
113
#24
No, this is not going to be a "sinless perfection" thread, where I claim to no longer sin and the rest of you are on your own, LOL!

Rather, I'm wondering whether it's correct to call believers "sinners". Let's look at two definitions of the word:

Sinner (1): one who sins
Sinner (2): one who is unsaved, makes a habit of sinning and who lives a sinful lifestyle.

It is true that even those of us who are saved by Christ still sin. It's just that we gradually sin less and less and remove sinful habits from our lives through His power (although we will never get to a point in this life where we stop sinning completely).

Now some say that believers should not be referred to as "sinners", while others say that it is acceptable because technically we still sin. I think it depends on which of the above definitions one uses.

So what do you guys think? Is it OK to call believers "sinners"? There are no wrong answers.

:D
There Is a song that says,I'm a sinner saved by grace ,but If a person Is focusing on their right standing before God,

JESUS the vine and us,the branches that are receiving nutrients from the vine,they might say,I was a sinner and I was saved by grace and now I'm the righteousness of GOD.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#25
I might be sounding petty,but I have got nothing better to do,but it is Paul the apostle no longer Saul the sinner,for his name was changed to represent his new identity,and I do not mean any harm,for you did not do anything wrong,but I am a petty person,but kidding,only making conservation,and saying that he is Saul when he was a sinner,and Paul when he is saved,like Jacob's name was changed to Israel,and Abram's name changed to Abraham,and Lucifer's name changed to Satan,to identify with the before and after of their character.
Yeah, I thought about saying it in that way, and decided against it. As that can sometimes open up another whole can of worms that could have distracted from the main point. That's an excellent point though.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,417
3,468
113
#26
No, this is not going to be a "sinless perfection" thread, where I claim to no longer sin and the rest of you are on your own, LOL!

Rather, I'm wondering whether it's correct to call believers "sinners". Let's look at two definitions of the word:

Sinner (1): one who sins
Sinner (2): one who is unsaved, makes a habit of sinning and who lives a sinful lifestyle.

It is true that even those of us who are saved by Christ still sin. It's just that we gradually sin less and less and remove sinful habits from our lives through His power (although we will never get to a point in this life where we stop sinning completely).

Now some say that believers should not be referred to as "sinners", while others say that it is acceptable because technically we still sin. I think it depends on which of the above definitions one uses.

So what do you guys think? Is it OK to call believers "sinners"? There are no wrong answers.

:D
A sinner is one who sins. it is irrelevant what their salvational status is.. If they sin then they are a sinner.. One may be a saved sinner destined to be forgiven their sins and the other may be destined to be judged and found guilty and condemned for their sins.. But they are Both sinners never the less..

The problem as i see it for some!!!! note i never said for all OK....... Is that they do not fully realize God is Perfect and He thus requires Perfection.. Some people think God is like a person having a relative measure of goodness.. But God being perfect has an absolute measure of Goodness..

Some people have high standards when it comes to other people and their behaviour. They will not deem another person as a "good" person unless they score over 80% in their measure of the other person's pro's and con's .. While others who are more relaxed about such things will refer to another person as being good if they score anything over 50% in their measure.. Usually with humans the higher they think of themselves the higher the pass score for others will be in their mind..

But God being perfect has a pass mark of 100% ... 99.9999999999999999999% is a total failure with God..

So talking about people who """ gradually sin less and less and remove sinful habits from our lives"""" may seem all fine and good to humans with relative measure of accepting others as being good.. But to God this person is just as much a failure as the person who is the worst of sinners.. In Gods eyes the person who scores 22% and the person who scores 88% are both Bad... They are both doomed to the same judgement if they are unsaved.. They are both headed for the eternal lake of fire...

So yes sinners should be called sinners and all human beings are sinners for as long as they walk around in this universe in these flesh bodies.. Denying that they are sinners is telling a lie ( which is also a sin,, lol ) It does not matter if they sin 50 sins a week or 1 sin a week. If we sin only one sin a year.. we are sinners..
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#27
A sinner is one who sins. it is irrelevant what their salvational status is.. If they sin then they are a sinner.. One may be a saved sinner destined to be forgiven their sins and the other may be destined to be judged and found guilty and condemned for their sins.. But they are Both sinners never the less..

The problem as i see it for some!!!! note i never said for all OK....... Is that they do not fully realize God is Perfect and He thus requires Perfection.. Some people think God is like a person having a relative measure of goodness.. But God being perfect has an absolute measure of Goodness..

Some people have high standards when it comes to other people and their behaviour. They will not deem another person as a "good" person unless they score over 80% in their measure of the other person's pro's and con's .. While others who are more relaxed about such things will refer to another person as being good if they score anything over 50% in their measure.. Usually with humans the higher they think of themselves the higher the pass score for others will be in their mind..

But God being perfect has a pass mark of 100% ... 99.9999999999999999999% is a total failure with God..

So talking about people who """ gradually sin less and less and remove sinful habits from our lives"""" may seem all fine and good to humans with relative measure of accepting others as being good.. But to God this person is just as much a failure as the person who is the worst of sinners.. In Gods eyes the person who scores 22% and the person who scores 88% are both Bad... They are both doomed to the same judgement if they are unsaved.. They are both headed for the eternal lake of fire...

So yes sinners should be called sinners and all human beings are sinners for as long as they walk around in this universe in these flesh bodies.. Denying that they are sinners is telling a lie ( which is also a sin,, lol ) It does not matter if they sin 50 sins a week or 1 sin a week. If we sin only one sin a year.. we are sinners..
Naw. A sinner is not a sinner because they sin, a sinner sins because they are sinners.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#28
No, this is not going to be a "sinless perfection" thread, where I claim to no longer sin and the rest of you are on your own, LOL!

Rather, I'm wondering whether it's correct to call believers "sinners". Let's look at two definitions of the word:

Sinner (1): one who sins
Sinner (2): one who is unsaved, makes a habit of sinning and who lives a sinful lifestyle.

It is true that even those of us who are saved by Christ still sin. It's just that we gradually sin less and less and remove sinful habits from our lives through His power (although we will never get to a point in this life where we stop sinning completely).

Now some say that believers should not be referred to as "sinners", while others say that it is acceptable because technically we still sin. I think it depends on which of the above definitions one uses.

So what do you guys think? Is it OK to call believers "sinners"? There are no wrong answers.

:D
I have sinned; therefore, I'm a sinner.
I still sin; therefore, I'm a sinner.
I have been/am/will be saved by the grace of Jesus; therefore I'm a sinner saved by Jesus.

One day I won't sin. Then again, by then I won't have this body anymore either. I suspect that's when I stop referring myself as a sinner.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#30
"You won’t hear from Paul’s lips some of the phrases that are commonly heard from many Christians. In the New Creation language, you won’t find longing and wanting. You will find endless praises declaring that the waiting and wanting is over. It’s a language and song of blissful fulfillment and ecstatic satisfaction. It is the New Song mentioned in the Psalms and Revelation. It is the song of men made into the home of God, the song of mortals transformed and swallowed by Life…

Isn’t it heart-rending that so many believers don’t know how to speak this language? They are stuck in the undone, instead of floating upon the finished. Some of the phrases of the old language are: ‘I must nail myself to the cross every day.’ ‘I’m just a sinner saved by grace.’ ‘Lord, You saved me but now come and cleanse me,’ or ‘Every day I’ve got to die to my flesh.’ Obviously the list goes on, and for the sheer fact that I hate hearing them, I will say no more of the faithless jabbering. This is a dead language!

Many still speak that old, dead language simply out of ignorance… The new language is the language of faith, which is trust. It’s the language of love, not longing… I ask, if we are not completely satisfied with Christ’s offering on the cross, with what will we be?"

-Benjamin Dunn
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#31
the word sin in the greek literally means to "miss the mark, to go off the path, to go astray" (it is actually a mathematical term)

So I agree it depends on how you look at it.

All men and women right here right now are sinners according to this definition.

however, in Christ, they are not seen as sinners, because they have the righteousness of God in them (not their righteousness, Gods righteousness) and like the blood on the mercy seat, the things which every day condemn us are not seen, they are wiped clean.
 

lastofall

Senior Member
Aug 26, 2014
609
38
28
#32
There are penitent sinners and there are impenitent sinners: the penitent are believers; the impenitent are unbelievers.
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#33
the word sin in the greek literally means to "miss the mark, to go off the path, to go astray" (it is actually a mathematical term)

So I agree it depends on how you look at it.

All men and women right here right now are sinners according to this definition.

however, in Christ, they are not seen as sinners, because they have the righteousness of God in them (not their righteousness, Gods righteousness) and like the blood on the mercy seat, the things which every day condemn us are not seen, they are wiped clean.
There is a massive jump here. Here is the mark. No one in the last 5 minutes has met it.
How do you know? If no one has commited a sinful act and they have been washed clean
forgiven at the beginning of the 5 minutes, then they have met the mark.

People so used to condemnation with no real definition of what they are condemning just blanket
everyone all the time, constantly, with failure.

In Israel the priests where always staying clean, undefiled, washing themselves in the temple,
having purification rights, making sure things were done just right, so they knew the idea of
what it meant to be purified and clean.

What we have is a group who condemn themselves as impure 24/7.
Now this is an easy state to stay in, because once defiled always defiled until cleansed.
It is like falling over. Once you are on the ground, no more falling over.

But Christ called us to walk in righteousness, to do the right thing, to be Holy, pure,
blameless. And His mark is to be filled with love. Love is perfection, love is God, love
is the expression of His heart, shown through Jesus and the cross.

So be cleansed through repentance, confession and acceptance the forgiveness of Christ
in the cross. Then walk in the grace, and you are perfect. God is not finding fault with you,
He is saying this is His will. But people want something more profound, more difficult, more
involved, more mystical. They say things like, oh if you mean just fulfilling the law, that is
easy, but walking in God and not self, or doing something for the right reasons, or not upsetting
anyone, or anything from this massive list and you are doomed.

But this is just the enemy speaking and inventing higher and more difficult tests to prove you
are really safe. But we know in the cross and in love we are safe, literally unto death, safe.

But these guys are so insecure, even if you become an enemy of God again, they want to be
safe still, as if this does not contradict the whole essence of love.

Such an odd idea. A group that must be impossible to join by pleasing someone in your behaviour,
you get a free ticket by asking for one, and once in, no matter how you behave, you can never leave.

And God does care 100% about behaviour. It is all about behaviour and heart need to be in line for
the Kingdom of heaven to be in an individual. The heart first, and the behaviour follows.

Now this group will call this legalism, because they believe it is impossible to walk righteously,
so condemn everyone as fallen sinners, in sin continually. Nice group and walking continually
in unbelief at the promise of the cross, the resurrection and godliness.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#34
Paul....Christ Jesus came to save sinners of whom I am chief<---note not in the past tense but present tense......

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
~1Ti 1:15  This is a trustworthy saying that deserves complete acceptance: To this world Messiah came, sinful people to reclaim. I am the worst of them. 


1Ti 1:16  But for that very reason I received mercy, so that in me, as the worst sinner, the Messiah Jesus might demonstrate all of his patience as an example for those who would believe in him for eternal life. 
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#35
Am beginning to think that our mind is what will show our identity.

As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#36
This is weird, I was just keying on Galatians 2 and literally had the following copied in clipboard: The pronoun "I" in v.18 stood out for me for the first time.

17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
what does this passage mean?
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#37
**** yes, but he was heading for trouble if he had rejected the word of the prophet--- thou art the man...
He paid for it in the flesh....and his 1st born with Bathsheba took his place in death....He was chastised as a believer, but never lost his salvation!
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#38
But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we Jews find ourselves also among the sinners, doesn’t that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! 18 If I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a lawbreaker.
Gal 2:17-18

Paul is arguing walking in Christ means according to the law of Moses believers
have become sinners. Therefore you could conclude that Christ is encouraging sin.
But this is not what Christ is saying, but if one was justifying yourself under the law
one would be a lawbreaker, but we are now free from the law of Moses.

Paul is saying by a relationship with Christ we are deemed righteous, not through
obedience to the law. But the fruit of this relationship is fulfilment of the law.

This is my understanding of what Paul is saying.
 
W

willybob

Guest
#39
"sinners" in the text is used to identify those who do the vile sins of the flesh that will disqualify one from inheriting the kingdom...For instance, Job did none of these, thus he was righteous and not a sinner....Did Job have sins of ignorance and flaws? Yes, but he was not a sinner. He was morally upright and perfect, but not as perfect as God.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
W

willybob

Guest
#40
David was saved when he took Bathsheba and murdered Uriah..
David was in a bitter repentance for 9 months Psalms 51, 32...If he died in that condition he would have went to hell...The rest of his life was horrible because of that sin...Don't think you can do those kinds of sins and still be saved at the drop of a hat, it requires a season of bitter sorrow in repentance.. God said the years of rest was removed from David's life, and a sword took its place..Bitter anguish and fighting amongst his immediate family because of the consequences of those sins. The prodigal son never returned to the sins of the flesh and riotous living..Sin hardens the heart, and can even do so to the point where repentance can no longer be found even though one desires it...Don't ever think there is an easy recovery from such types of sin...