Applying Matthew 18:20 Rightly

[Enow]

Many take Matthew 18:20 out of context to imply the Holy Spirit can be moving outside of them in the assembly.

Matthew 18:[SUP]19 [/SUP]Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.[SUP]20 [/SUP]For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Do note that Jesus is talking. whenever Jesus is talking about the Holy Spirit, Jesus uses the pronouns he or him in regards to the Holy Spirit; not "me" or " I ".

So do not apply His words wrong in verse 20 as if the Holy Spirit will make like a spook among believers in the assembly.

In context, this is about Jesus Christ being our only Mediator between God and man. The wording "in the midst of us" is referring to meaning inbetween us and the Father in regards to prayer. That is all it means in context to prayer.

Now if any one wishes to contend that the Holy Spirit can exists outside of us in the worship place, scripture in the N.T. would draw the line of distinction for you that the Holy Spirit would never have a need to do that for any reason now.

John 14:[SUP]16 [/SUP]And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Notice the difference in John 17 in how the world receives spirits after a sign that they can see and the real indwelling Holy Ghost as the only means on how we will know Him as apart from how the world knows in receiving spirits. Not once did Jesus ever gave tongues as a prayer language to be used as a sign that you will know the Holy Spirit by. BUT Jesus did say the difference between how the word knows spirits in their comings and goings with signs, and the knowing real Holy Spirit by His dwelling within you forever as promised for all those that come to & believed in Jesus Christ at their salvation.

More proof?

1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world........[SUP]4 [/SUP]Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.[SUP]5 [/SUP]They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.[SUP]6 [/SUP]We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

1 John 4:4 draws the line of discernment in knowing the real Holy Spirit from those spirits that comes over a believer apart from salvation, even when those spirits brings tongues without interpretation when that supernatural tongue can be found in the world as 1 John 4:5-6 confirms, before Pentecost had come with God's actual gift of tongues of other men's lips to speak unto the people to hear the Word of God in their native tongue.

Now for the woman at the well on where to worship God the Father at on earth on how one did worship in the O.T..

John 4:[SUP]19 [/SUP]The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.[SUP]20 [/SUP]Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.[SUP]21 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.[SUP]22 [/SUP]Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.[SUP]23 [/SUP]But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.[SUP]24 [/SUP]God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

This is not about God the Father being a Spirit, but that God the Father is not limited by a place or building for people to come to Him to worship Him in that place in that way any more.

I hope the Lord is helping you to see the meaning of His words here to the woman at the well that as believers, we need not go to the mountains nor to the temple at Jerusalem, but we can worship God the Father anywhere on earth. How?

John 14:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 5:[SUP]22 [/SUP]For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:[SUP]23 [/SUP]That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

John 13:[SUP]31 [/SUP]Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him.[SUP]32 [/SUP]If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

Philippians 2:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:[SUP]7 [/SUP]But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:[SUP]8 [/SUP]And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:[SUP]10 [/SUP]That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;[SUP]11 [/SUP]And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Jesus is the only way now in how we approach God the Father in worship to honor the Son in glorifying the Son as we are led by the Spirit to do what the Spirit is doing as well so that the Father may be honored & glorified in the Son at the same time.

Why must the Holy Spirit not be outside of us in the worship place any more? To signify the glory of the New Covenant.

1 Corinthians 6:[SUP]19 [/SUP]What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?[SUP]20 [/SUP]For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

So let us not defer from the truth in His words so that whenever any believer thinks they are feeling His Presence in the worship place, it is not the Holy Spirit at all, but the spirit of the antichrist which is IN THE WORLD. Greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world, so do not chase after then for any signs, for that is not after Christ Jesus at all. If any have done this, repent and return to your frst love and lean on Him to chase no more after those spirits outside of you and He will forgive you and help keep you resting in Him till the Bridegroom comes.

 

[FreeNChrist]

The Holy Spirit is God, He exists everywhere at one time.

 

[Enow]

The Holy Spirit is God, He exists everywhere at one time.

He is within us so that we may know the spirit of the antichrist which is outside of us in the world.

John 14:[SUP]16 [/SUP]And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

We cannot get any closer to the Holy Spirit than that, and certainly being outsde of us does not make us closer to God but further away when He is in us.

1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world........[SUP]4 [/SUP]Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

By not recognizing the new reality we have in Christ Jesus under the New Covenant, you are removing the line of discernment in testing the spirits.

That means by you saying that the Holy Spirit is everywhere and not just ONLY in us, makes it impossible for any one to test the spirits that are in the world outside of us as not the Holy Spirit but the spirit of the antichrist. May God help you to see the necessity of knowing this truth in His words as explained in the OP in order to keep the faith which is the good fight.

 

[NayborBear]

Inasmuch as even King Solomon, as a youth, when in prayer, or talking with Our Father, stated: "I don't even know when I'm coming in, or going out!"...referring to His Presence! Whether it be Lord God, or El Shaddai, or, Jehovah, or Adonai Jehovah, or various "titles/offices". that comprise the Government OF God, that is upon the shoulders of Our High Priest and Kinsmen Redeemer, which is Jesus Christ, and ONLY way unto our Father!

Saying this, I have been in many "prayer circles", where I have felt something inside of me saying. "Yeah, Tom, I may be "in the midst" of these....but, that Doesn't mean I am agreeing with all they are saying!"

 

[FreeNChrist]

He is within us so that we may know the spirit of the antichrist which is outside of us in the world.

John 14:[SUP]16 [/SUP]And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

We cannot get any closer to the Holy Spirit than that, and certainly being outsde of us does not make us closer to God but further away when He is in us.

1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world........[SUP]4 [/SUP]Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

By not recognizing the new reality we have in Christ Jesus under the New Covenant, you are removing the line of discernment in testing the spirits.

That means by you saying that the Holy Spirit is everywhere and not just ONLY in us, makes it impossible for any one to test the spirits that are in the world outside of us as not the Holy Spirit but the spirit of the antichrist. May God help you to see the necessity of knowing this truth in His words as explained in the OP in order to keep the faith which is the good fight.

You're being foolish.

 

[Enow]

You're being foolish.

Do ask Jesus about this please, but...

Feel free to provide by the scripture Who is the Holy Spirit and what is not the Holy Spirit if you believe that the Holy Spirit can be everywhere inside AND outside to know that spirit to be of God or not.

No, really. Tell us how anyone can tell what the spirit of the antichrist is if we can know the Holy Spirit outside of us also?

You can't. And yet we are not to believe every spirit as being of God and the only way to know the real Holy Spirit is that He is in us as opposed to other spirits that are in the world.

FYI The Holy Spirit is not the means by how God is everywhere; but the Holy Spirit in us is the test of our faith in Jesus Christ as God is within us and with us always. That is the faith we are to keep from those that would bring in their practices of familiar spirits and spirits that the world worships as seeking their comings and goings by outwards signs in the flesh.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Do ask Jesus about this please, but...

Feel free to provide by the scripture Who is the Holy Spirit and what is not the Holy Spirit if you believe that the Holy Spirit can be everywhere inside AND outside to know that spirit to be of God or not.

No, really. Tell us how anyone can tell what the spirit of the antichrist is if we can know the Holy Spirit outside of us also?

You can't. And yet we are not to believe every spirit as being of God and the only way to know the real Holy Spirit is that He is in us as opposed to other spirits that are in the world.

FYI The Holy Spirit is not the means by how God is everywhere; but the Holy Spirit in us is the test of our faith in Jesus Christ as God is within us and with us always. That is the faith we are to keep from those that would bring in their practices of familiar spirits and spirits that the world worships as seeking their comings and goings by outwards signs in the flesh.

The Holy Spirit is God. God is omnipresent, everywhere at one time. Live and learn, or don't. The choice is yours.

 

[Desertsrose]

Enow,

So let us not defer from the truth in His words so that whenever any believer thinks they are feeling His Presence in the worship place, it is not the Holy Spirit at all, but the spirit of the antichrist which is IN THE WORLD. Greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world, so do not chase after then for any signs, for that is not after Christ Jesus at all. If any have done this, repent and return to your frst love and lean on Him to chase no more after those spirits outside of you and He will forgive you and help keep you resting in Him till the Bridegroom comes.

Of course we'll feel His presence. He's living within us. When I'm in a worship service, of course I'll feel His presence when joy overwhelms me or if/when He brings comfort when I need solace.

If He moves on me to speak a word of wisdom or a word of knowledge, I'll feel Him because He's the giver of the wisdom or the knowledge. If He leads me in truth, I feel Him and when I'm about to tell a lie, I feel Him when I hear His word tell me no, no, no! You feel that red flag of warning.

We are a sensory people. We feel emotions. How can we not when it's the way God created us. I sense the presence of the Holy Spirit especially when I'm with my fellow brothers and sisters and especially when the focus in on worshipping God.

We feel the Holy Spirit inside our hearts as He moves within to bring praises to God or when He moves us to discern truth from error. He moves on us to show acts of kindness towards the body of Christ and towards unbelievers.

Maybe you've had some bad experiences with false signs and wonders. But the tendency for some, is to go to the other degree and claim it's all false. It's a natural protection mode we might turn on.

In all of life we're called to discern truth from error. When some in church claim that something is a work of the Holy Spirit and it's not, it can be either a work of the flesh, (carnally motivated) or it can be an evil spirit.

But it would be just as much of an error to claim it all to be a work of an evil spirit, when in fact it just may be the Holy Spirit or a work of the flesh.

 

[Enow]

Enow,



Of course we'll feel His presence. He's living within us. When I'm in a worship service, of course I'll feel His presence when joy overwhelms me or if/when He brings comfort when I need solace.

If He moves on me to speak a word of wisdom or a word of knowledge, I'll feel Him because He's the giver of the wisdom or the knowledge. If He leads me in truth, I feel Him and when I'm about to tell a lie, I feel Him when I hear His word tell me no, no, no! You feel that red flag of warning.

We are a sensory people. We feel emotions. How can we not when it's the way God created us. I sense the presence of the Holy Spirit especially when I'm with my fellow brothers and sisters and especially when the focus in on worshipping God.

We feel the Holy Spirit inside our hearts as He moves within to bring praises to God or when He moves us to discern truth from error. He moves on us to show acts of kindness towards the body of Christ and towards unbelievers.

Maybe you've had some bad experiences with false signs and wonders. But the tendency for some, is to go to the other degree and claim it's all false. It's a natural protection mode we might turn on.

In all of life we're called to discern truth from error. When some in church claim that something is a work of the Holy Spirit and it's not, it can be either a work of the flesh, (carnally motivated) or it can be an evil spirit.

But it would be just as much of an error to claim it all to be a work of an evil spirit, when in fact it just may be the Holy Spirit or a work of the flesh.

I thank you for sharing but the real indwelling Holy Spirit would never take the spotlight off of the Son in worship, but seducing spirits will in seeking their presence in worship and bringing signs too.

When we are to seek His face in worship, then seeking the Spirit's Presence outside in worship is not after Christ.

Psalm 27:[SUP]7 [/SUP]Hear, O Lord, when I cry with my voice: have mercy also upon me, and answer me.[SUP]8 [/SUP]When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, Lord, will I seek.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Hide not thy face far from me; put not thy servant away in anger: thou hast been my help; leave me not, neither forsake me, O God of my salvation.

Psalm 105:[SUP]3 [/SUP]Glory ye in his holy name: let the heart of them rejoice that seek the Lord.[SUP]4 [/SUP]Seek the Lord, and his strength: seek his face evermore.

 

[BeyondET]

[video=youtube;k8Zt1Wy4gyA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8Zt1Wy4gyA[/video]

 

[Depleted]

Many take Matthew 18:20 out of context to imply the Holy Spirit can be moving outside of them in the assembly.

Matthew 18:[SUP]19 [/SUP]Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.[SUP]20 [/SUP]For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Do note that Jesus is talking. whenever Jesus is talking about the Holy Spirit, Jesus uses the pronouns he or him in regards to the Holy Spirit; not "me" or " I ".

So do not apply His words wrong in verse 20 as if the Holy Spirit will make like a spook among believers in the assembly.

In context, this is about Jesus Christ being our only Mediator between God and man. The wording "in the midst of us" is referring to meaning inbetween us and the Father in regards to prayer. That is all it means in context to prayer.

Now if any one wishes to contend that the Holy Spirit can exists outside of us in the worship place, scripture in the N.T. would draw the line of distinction for you that the Holy Spirit would never have a need to do that for any reason now.

John 14:[SUP]16 [/SUP]And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Notice the difference in John 17 in how the world receives spirits after a sign that they can see and the real indwelling Holy Ghost as the only means on how we will know Him as apart from how the world knows in receiving spirits. Not once did Jesus ever gave tongues as a prayer language to be used as a sign that you will know the Holy Spirit by. BUT Jesus did say the difference between how the word knows spirits in their comings and goings with signs, and the knowing real Holy Spirit by His dwelling within you forever as promised for all those that come to & believed in Jesus Christ at their salvation.

More proof?

1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world........[SUP]4 [/SUP]Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.[SUP]5 [/SUP]They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.[SUP]6 [/SUP]We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

1 John 4:4 draws the line of discernment in knowing the real Holy Spirit from those spirits that comes over a believer apart from salvation, even when those spirits brings tongues without interpretation when that supernatural tongue can be found in the world as 1 John 4:5-6 confirms, before Pentecost had come with God's actual gift of tongues of other men's lips to speak unto the people to hear the Word of God in their native tongue.

Now for the woman at the well on where to worship God the Father at on earth on how one did worship in the O.T..

John 4:[SUP]19 [/SUP]The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.[SUP]20 [/SUP]Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.[SUP]21 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.[SUP]22 [/SUP]Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.[SUP]23 [/SUP]But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.[SUP]24 [/SUP]God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

This is not about God the Father being a Spirit, but that God the Father is not limited by a place or building for people to come to Him to worship Him in that place in that way any more.

I hope the Lord is helping you to see the meaning of His words here to the woman at the well that as believers, we need not go to the mountains nor to the temple at Jerusalem, but we can worship God the Father anywhere on earth. How?

John 14:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 5:[SUP]22 [/SUP]For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:[SUP]23 [/SUP]That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

John 13:[SUP]31 [/SUP]Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him.[SUP]32 [/SUP]If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

Philippians 2:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:[SUP]7 [/SUP]But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:[SUP]8 [/SUP]And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:[SUP]10 [/SUP]That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;[SUP]11 [/SUP]And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Jesus is the only way now in how we approach God the Father in worship to honor the Son in glorifying the Son as we are led by the Spirit to do what the Spirit is doing as well so that the Father may be honored & glorified in the Son at the same time.

Why must the Holy Spirit not be outside of us in the worship place any more? To signify the glory of the New Covenant.

1 Corinthians 6:[SUP]19 [/SUP]What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?[SUP]20 [/SUP]For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

So let us not defer from the truth in His words so that whenever any believer thinks they are feeling His Presence in the worship place, it is not the Holy Spirit at all, but the spirit of the antichrist which is IN THE WORLD. Greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world, so do not chase after then for any signs, for that is not after Christ Jesus at all. If any have done this, repent and return to your frst love and lean on Him to chase no more after those spirits outside of you and He will forgive you and help keep you resting in Him till the Bridegroom comes.

Okay. I get it. You think you're a teacher and you're going to continue to teach no matter what.

Some teacherly suggestions:
1. Absolutely no one learns from people who look down on them as if they are beneath them. It just doesn't work. It closes ears and makes people walk away rather than learn anything. And yet, every time, this is how you come at us.

2. Very few people are willing to be taught by someone who has never had this problem, and who has never really figured out what the problem is. And yet, in telling us that you alone can rightly divide this truth without giving us any background on how you, and you alone, know this, you will only catch the naive who haven't quite yet learned not to trust just anyone to teach.

3. Teachers have the heart because they have the passion for the subject. They want others to gain the passion too, so they can converse with them. You keep coming at this as if it is your duty, just as it is my duty to keep my toilet clean. And it comes across as nothing but duty. No joy.

I learned something about teaching because I wanted to teach. I actually took teaching courses in college to learn to teach. Alas, I wanted to teach subjects I'm not good enough to teach.

And in that, you and I are in the same boat.

Neither one of us were made to teach God's word.

At least pretend that everyone else isn't some worthless dust bunny destined to hear your truth. Pretend you struggle too.

 

[Enow]

Christ in me. He can't get any closer than that supernaturally.

[video=youtube;_rR_Rdb1CTE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rR_Rdb1CTE[/video]

 

[Enow]

Okay. I get it. You think you're a teacher and you're going to continue to teach no matter what.

Some teacherly suggestions:
1. Absolutely no one learns from people who look down on them as if they are beneath them. It just doesn't work. It closes ears and makes people walk away rather than learn anything. And yet, every time, this is how you come at us.

There is a right answer and applying His words rightly. Is it love to let any brother or sister to keep on in error? I can make mistakes too. If no one corrects me, how am I to learn?

No matter how you look at it, when I disagree with someone, they were actually expecting me to yield to them of their final say so, whereas I would prefer they heed me but confirm with Him as the final say so. That is me saying.... trust Jesus Christ as your Good Shepherd to prove everything.

2. Very few people are willing to be taught by someone who has never had this problem, and who has never really figured out what the problem is. And yet, in telling us that you alone can rightly divide this truth without giving us any background on how you, and you alone, know this, you will only catch the naive who haven't quite yet learned not to trust just anyone to teach.

Hardly. I have not caught any one when I am expecting Him to recover them from the devil's snare.

3. Teachers have the heart because they have the passion for the subject. They want others to gain the passion too, so they can converse with them. You keep coming at this as if it is your duty, just as it is my duty to keep my toilet clean. And it comes across as nothing but duty. No joy.

Victims that seek to testify what the Lord has done in delivering them from falsehood will find it their duty to inform and warn others in the hopes that the Lord may deliver them as well.

I learned something about teaching because I wanted to teach. I actually took teaching courses in college to learn to teach. Alas, I wanted to teach subjects I'm not good enough to teach.

And in that, you and I are in the same boat.

In one sense you are correct when we are to lean on the Lord Jesus Christ for wisdom in understanding His words. This is what it means to be submissive to the Word of God.

Neither one of us were made to teach God's word.

Not without His help, no, we are not. As led by the Good Shepherd, the Lord Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit in us, is the only way a man is to teach in the assembly and outside while the women can only teach outside of the assembly as that is a requirement to be submissive to the Word of God.

At least pretend that everyone else isn't some worthless dust bunny destined to hear your truth. Pretend you struggle too.

I struggle about whether I should be here at all but He seems to be leading me back here through dreams.

Every brother and sister is loved by God as He has given me the love I need to tell the truth in His words. He helps me not to argue or get mad when He is the One doing the ministry; not me.

1 Corinthians 3:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?[SUP]6 [/SUP]I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.[SUP]7 [/SUP]So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

Galatians 4:[SUP]16 [/SUP]Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

Ephesians 4:[SUP]11 [/SUP]And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;[SUP]12 [/SUP]For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:[SUP]14 [/SUP]That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;[SUP]15 [/SUP]But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:[SUP]16 [/SUP]From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.[SUP]17 [/SUP]This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,

 

[Enow]

At least pretend that everyone else isn't some worthless dust bunny destined to hear your truth. Pretend you struggle too.

By the way, I have learned something today that corrected me of my stance that the "elect" were of the firstfruits and not those saved believers left behind that did not depart from iniquity that would be resurrected after the great tribulation to be received by Him as vessels unto dishonor in His House.

The elect are all saved believers as they have the promise that nothing will separate them from the love of God so that they will never be condemned as unsaved, but there is a damnation that does not lose salvation when unrepentant believers left behind will be received as vessels unto dishonor in His House.

I think I had learned that before, but had forgotten it, but that truth that all saved believers are the elect has been brought to my acknowledgment.

We are not perfect yet and so we all continue to grow and be pruned to bear more fruit in our walk with Him, but once you know the truth, there is no going back.. God be willing.

 

[wattie]

Look at the whole chapter of Matthew 18. This is the topic of how a sinning member of a New Testament church assembly is dealt with.

Two or three are gathered as church members to resolve a sin issue with another member.

So the Holy Spirit blesses this meeting and is there 'in the midst' of them.

They are each in dwelt by the Holy Spirit but also the Holy Spirit is among them.

This process, blessed by the Holy Spirit is an update of what was done in Deuteronomy for Israel when they would resolve an issue 'in the mouth of two or three witnesses'

God is blessing the way this process is done in the assembly between church members by being 'in the midst'

 

[garee]

Many take Matthew 18:20 out of context to imply the Holy Spirit can be moving outside of them in the assembly.

Matthew 18:[SUP]19 [/SUP]Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.[SUP]20 [/SUP]For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

The context is gathering together in respect to his name or authority called the word of God. It two or the or two, or three thousand. That authority does not change just more people.

Do note that Jesus is talking. whenever Jesus is talking about the Holy Spirit, Jesus uses the pronouns he or him in regards to the Holy Spirit; not "me" or " I ".

If any man has not the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit of God they do not belong to Him. Whether that’s two or three thousand or two as a couple, the authority remains the same (not of our selves) .The idea that we do need a man to teach us reveals the motive of operation of the antichrist (singular) who work in man to influence men...used as antichrists(plural)

So do not apply His words wrong in verse 20 as if the Holy Spirit will make like a spook among believers in the assembly.

It will not make a spook whether it two or three or two or three million. The old testament saints that did have the Spirit of Christ, that Holy Spirit that lived in them, it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.The same Spirit of faith according as it is written that works in us. "it" testifies to what had been performed afterward on this side of the cross as all in the same one and only gospel .

In context, this is about Jesus Christ being our only Mediator between God and man. The wording "in the midst of us" is referring to meaning in between us and the Father in regards to prayer. That is all it means in context to prayer.
He is in the mist of believers.

It is between them and God who uses two attributes (father and Son) to help us understand the mystery of God who is not a man as us.

Now if any one wishes to contend that the Holy Spirit can exists outside of us in the worship place, scripture in the N.T. would draw the line of distinction for you that the Holy Spirit would never have a need to do that for any reason now.

The place of worship is our new hearts. We are the temple of God in respect to our new spirits that will never die. Again the motive of operation with the fathers of lies(the antichrist) is that we do need a man to teach us.

 

[Enow]

Look at the whole chapter of Matthew 18. This is the topic of how a sinning member of a New Testament church assembly is dealt with.

Two or three are gathered as church members to resolve a sin issue with another member.

So the Holy Spirit blesses this meeting and is there 'in the midst' of them.

No. Again, whenever Jesus talks about the Holy Spirit, He defers from Himself by saying he or him in regards to the Holy Spirit; not "me" or " I ". So Jesus is referring to Himself in Matthew 18:19-20 as being our Mediator when it comes to prayer.

They are each in dwelt by the Holy Spirit but also the Holy Spirit is among them.

For what purpose does the Holy Spirit has to be outside of the believers in the assembly? And if He did, how can anyone tests the spirits when the spirits of the antichrist is outside of us in the world? By how it feels good? Not a very good indicator when seducing spirits are called such for that reason.

This process, blessed by the Holy Spirit is an update of what was done in Deuteronomy for Israel when they would resolve an issue 'in the mouth of two or three witnesses'

God is blessing the way this process is done in the assembly between church members by being 'in the midst'

If you are trying to reason your belief or experience into the scripture of Matthew 18:19-20, the scripture refutes your post.

Matthew 18:[SUP]19[/SUP]Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.[SUP]20 [/SUP]For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Enow, do you believe the Holy Spirit is God?

 

[Enow]

Enow, do you believe the Holy Spirit is God?

Of course, but scripture tells us in the N.T. that we will know the Holy Ghost by Him being in us; whereas now the only spirit that seeks to draw our attention away from the Bridegroom are the spirits of the antichrist outside of us and around us as being in the world.

The real indwelling Holy Spirit would never put on a show that draws believers away from seeking the face of the Bridegroom whereas the seducing spirits will with their visitations of signs & lying wonders.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Of course, but scripture tells us in the N.T. that we will know the Holy Ghost by Him being in us; whereas now the only spirit that seeks to draw our attention away from the Bridegroom are the spirits of the antichrist outside of us and around us as being in the world.

The real indwelling Holy Spirit would never put on a show that draws believers away from seeking the face of the Bridegroom whereas the seducing spirits will with their visitations of signs & lying wonders.

Yes, the Holy Spirit is in us, but He isn't only in us. And that is the problem with what you are asserting. As has already been said, God is not limited to any one location, He is omnipresent; present everywhere at once. He is both in us and among us.