I was just thinking this morning how convenient for Satan that this movie came out. You see, the pre tribulation gathering is as false as a three dollar bill, it is an end time deception, designed to cause vast numbers of folks to fall away from the faith. The Left Behind movie has convinced millions that if the Antichrist appears and the tribulation begins, that they have missed the gathering of the church, therefore they were not really saved. Problem is that no one will be taken at that time because the gathering of the church is not until after the tribulation. The stroke of genius here is that Satan made the gathering INVISIBLE so no one will have to explain why they did not see it happen.
LEFT BEHIND
- Thread starter samuel23
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I liked how after they disappeared their clothes were neatly folded laying in the spot where they disappeared lol. The movie is quite literal. I call it "Christian Fiction", it is entertaining, but truthful? No way. First of all, when Christ returns it's too late- there is not a group of people left behind who will have a second chance. The hope of a second chance creates false beliefs- like this or reincarnation.
First the dead in Christ will rise from their graves, then Christians who have not yet died, then the unsaved. There will not be long time periods between each. Christ will separate the goats from the sheep. The earth will be destroyed. There will be a new heaven and a new earth (not a physical earth).
First the dead in Christ will rise from their graves, then Christians who have not yet died, then the unsaved. There will not be long time periods between each. Christ will separate the goats from the sheep. The earth will be destroyed. There will be a new heaven and a new earth (not a physical earth).
I still do not understand why some feel compelled to strive against the Lord gathering His church when it suits Him. I feel pre-trib makes the most biblical sense but others seem to be less interested in meeting the Lord than they are showing how Spiritual they see themselves.
It reminds me of how Israel wanted God to give them a law so they could demonstrate their faithfulness and after Moses gave it to them they failed to live up to their high aspirations. These who think they can endure the tribulation have no idea of what they wish for.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
It reminds me of how Israel wanted God to give them a law so they could demonstrate their faithfulness and after Moses gave it to them they failed to live up to their high aspirations. These who think they can endure the tribulation have no idea of what they wish for.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Make sure you are ready to go when the time comes...that was my point, if you are believing in a false gathering of the church created by Satan to cause vast numbers to miss Heaven...then YOU ARE NOT READY. You cannot be ready if you reject what Jesus taught(a post trib gathering) and have chosen to believe Satan(a pre-trib gathering). The Lord wants us in His truth, to believe a lie is to ALREADY miss God, not going to miss God, but already missed God.
Not: Whose trying to be spiritual, I am pointing out a terrible lie that Satan has duped the church into believing and the consequences of promoting that lie. Look up pre-trib rapture in the dictionary, it will tell you it was invented by John Darby around 1830. This is an extremely dangerous teaching because it sets up the church for a great falling away from the faith. You believe you will be gathered before the tribulation, how would you feel if you found yourself in the tribulation with the government forces asking you to join to save the world? Where would your faith be if Jesus did not come back as you believe the bible says that he will? Think about it.
Christians are sitting in their easy chairs with a cup of coffee and thinking, I believe I like pre-trib better, O well, no big deal either way...THAT IS LUDICROUS! This is about the biggest event of the church, the return of Christ to gather the church. Folks all talk about how they are going to be ready and watching for those great deceptions that Jesus said would come...IT IS ALREADY HERE. What could be worse then believing in Satan's version of Christ return rather then God's version of Christ return? One can prove the pre-trib gathering wrong in a few words, so what is the excuse for believing in it? The church before Paul had to be post trib because that was their only teaching on Christ return, therefore Paul had to be post-trib and was writing about post-trib in the Thess letters...there is the proof right there.
L
We should always begin with Scripture when discussing such. Left Behind is good clean entertainment, but not biblical. https://textsincontext.wordpress.com/2013/05/11/second-coming-rapture-vs-scripture-christian/
Morning samuel23,
As usual, you provide no scripture to back up what you are claiming. It's all subjective on your part. You still haven't given an answer to who that army of Rev.19:14 is that is following Christ out of heaven, riding on white horses and who are shown to be receiving their fine linen, white and clean at the wedding of the Lamb and which is shown to take place in heaven.
If the gathering of the church was to take place when Christ returns to the earth to end the age, then there would hardly be any living believers left to be caught up to meet the Lord in the air and that because the majority of the earth's population will have been killed.
Your error continues to stem from not applying the scriptures that prove that the gathering cannot take place at the time of Christ's return. And you continue to not understand the severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath.
I will build my church
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Church gathered, dead and living - Not appointed to suffer God's wrath (1 Thes.4:13-18)
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Jesus returns to the earth to end the age and the church with him (Matt.24:30-31, Rev.1:7, 19:11-21)
As usual, you provide no scripture to back up what you are claiming. It's all subjective on your part. You still haven't given an answer to who that army of Rev.19:14 is that is following Christ out of heaven, riding on white horses and who are shown to be receiving their fine linen, white and clean at the wedding of the Lamb and which is shown to take place in heaven.
If the gathering of the church was to take place when Christ returns to the earth to end the age, then there would hardly be any living believers left to be caught up to meet the Lord in the air and that because the majority of the earth's population will have been killed.
Your error continues to stem from not applying the scriptures that prove that the gathering cannot take place at the time of Christ's return. And you continue to not understand the severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath.
I will build my church
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Church gathered, dead and living - Not appointed to suffer God's wrath (1 Thes.4:13-18)
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R
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H
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Jesus returns to the earth to end the age and the church with him (Matt.24:30-31, Rev.1:7, 19:11-21)
Greetings LClark,
It is never a good sign when one is making a claim and as proof, provides a website instead of citing his own understanding of scripture. All that you are doing is supplying someone else's teachings.
There are many scriptural proofs and principals as to why the church will be gathered prior to God's wrath, which begins with that 1st seal being opened. Below is a list in no particular order:
* The word Ekklesia translated church, which is used 18 times from chapter 1 thru the end of chapter 3, is never used again from Rev.4 onward. The word Haios translated as Saints replaces the church. These are the great tribulation saints introduced in Rev.7:9-17. It is this group that is referred to throughout the rest of the narrative.
Revelation 1 thru 3 = Refers to Ekklesia/Church, but no Hagios/saints
Revelation 4 onward = Refers to Hagios/Saints, but no Ekklesiah/Chrurch
* The wrath of God must take place prior to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. Since scripture states that believers are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath and that Jesus rescues us from the coming wrath (1 Thes.1:10, 5:9), then the church cannot go through God's wrath, which will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.
* The common trials and tribulations that Jesus said that all believers would experience because of their faith in him, are not the same as God's coming wrath. The apostles and the first century church and people currently around the world, suffered and are currently suffering from these trials and tribulations. But the coming wrath of God will be exactly that, wrath directly from God of which the likes the world has never seen and will never be equaled again. This coming wrath will decimate the majority of the earth's population and dismantle all human government. This the church cannot and will not go through.
* In John 14:1-3, Jesus said that he was going to the Father's house to prepare places for us and that he was going to come back and get all believers and take them back to the Father's house. The detailed account of this promise is found in 1 Thes.4:13-18, when the dead will be resurrected and the living will be transformed and caught up to meet the Lord in the air. From there he will take the entire church back to the Father's house, as promised.
* Rev.19:6-8 reveals the bride of Christ, the church, as being in heaven and receiving her fine linen, white and clean. And in Rev.19:14, we see an army following Christ out of heaven wearing that same fine linen, white and clean. The army will be those who will have been the dead in Christ who will have previously been resurrected and the living who were transformed and caught up. According to Rev.17:14, those returning with Christ, will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.
* Jesus said I will build my church and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. Consequently, he is not going to build his church and then send it through his wrath.
* After Paul gave a detailed account of the resurrection and catching away of the church in 1 Thes.4:13-18, he ended with "Therefore, comfort one another with these words. In writing to Titus Paul referred to the appearing of the Lord to gather the church as "the blessed hope." That said, if the church was to go through God's wrath and gathered when Christ returns to the earth to end the age, then believers would have nothing to comfort one another about nor would it be a blessed hope.
* It is important to understand that the gathering of the church is a separate event vs. the Lord's return to the earth to end the age.
* It is also important to understand that there is a difference between the common trial and tribulations, which come at the hands of mankind and the powers of darkness vs. the coming wrath of God, which will be an unprecedented time of wrath and which will be directed at all who will have continued to reject Christ and who continue living according to the sinful nature.
* Regarding the above, the church will have already received Christ, have been credited with righteousness and have been reconciled to God. And there are those who think that God is going to send his church through his wrath? They neither understand the nature of God nor the severity and magnitude of his coming wrath.
From comparing and cross-referencing scripture, these are just a few basic understandings as to why the church must be gathered prior to the wrath of God, prior to the onset of that last seven years, prior to the first seal being opened.
It is never a good sign when one is making a claim and as proof, provides a website instead of citing his own understanding of scripture. All that you are doing is supplying someone else's teachings.
There are many scriptural proofs and principals as to why the church will be gathered prior to God's wrath, which begins with that 1st seal being opened. Below is a list in no particular order:
* The word Ekklesia translated church, which is used 18 times from chapter 1 thru the end of chapter 3, is never used again from Rev.4 onward. The word Haios translated as Saints replaces the church. These are the great tribulation saints introduced in Rev.7:9-17. It is this group that is referred to throughout the rest of the narrative.
Revelation 1 thru 3 = Refers to Ekklesia/Church, but no Hagios/saints
Revelation 4 onward = Refers to Hagios/Saints, but no Ekklesiah/Chrurch
* The wrath of God must take place prior to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. Since scripture states that believers are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath and that Jesus rescues us from the coming wrath (1 Thes.1:10, 5:9), then the church cannot go through God's wrath, which will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.
* The common trials and tribulations that Jesus said that all believers would experience because of their faith in him, are not the same as God's coming wrath. The apostles and the first century church and people currently around the world, suffered and are currently suffering from these trials and tribulations. But the coming wrath of God will be exactly that, wrath directly from God of which the likes the world has never seen and will never be equaled again. This coming wrath will decimate the majority of the earth's population and dismantle all human government. This the church cannot and will not go through.
* In John 14:1-3, Jesus said that he was going to the Father's house to prepare places for us and that he was going to come back and get all believers and take them back to the Father's house. The detailed account of this promise is found in 1 Thes.4:13-18, when the dead will be resurrected and the living will be transformed and caught up to meet the Lord in the air. From there he will take the entire church back to the Father's house, as promised.
* Rev.19:6-8 reveals the bride of Christ, the church, as being in heaven and receiving her fine linen, white and clean. And in Rev.19:14, we see an army following Christ out of heaven wearing that same fine linen, white and clean. The army will be those who will have been the dead in Christ who will have previously been resurrected and the living who were transformed and caught up. According to Rev.17:14, those returning with Christ, will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.
* Jesus said I will build my church and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. Consequently, he is not going to build his church and then send it through his wrath.
* After Paul gave a detailed account of the resurrection and catching away of the church in 1 Thes.4:13-18, he ended with "Therefore, comfort one another with these words. In writing to Titus Paul referred to the appearing of the Lord to gather the church as "the blessed hope." That said, if the church was to go through God's wrath and gathered when Christ returns to the earth to end the age, then believers would have nothing to comfort one another about nor would it be a blessed hope.
* It is important to understand that the gathering of the church is a separate event vs. the Lord's return to the earth to end the age.
* It is also important to understand that there is a difference between the common trial and tribulations, which come at the hands of mankind and the powers of darkness vs. the coming wrath of God, which will be an unprecedented time of wrath and which will be directed at all who will have continued to reject Christ and who continue living according to the sinful nature.
* Regarding the above, the church will have already received Christ, have been credited with righteousness and have been reconciled to God. And there are those who think that God is going to send his church through his wrath? They neither understand the nature of God nor the severity and magnitude of his coming wrath.
From comparing and cross-referencing scripture, these are just a few basic understandings as to why the church must be gathered prior to the wrath of God, prior to the onset of that last seven years, prior to the first seal being opened.
**** we should be warning people to be prepared---- it doesn't matter if it's Pre-Trib. or Post-Trib.---the Parables Jesus taught were about being prepared (Matthew 25) Wise and Foolish Virgins and the Goodman of the House being faithful--- not getting drunk and beating the servants--- deception is a major thing Jesus warned about in the Last Days---- if the Lord is delaying His arrival like in these two parables we must be faithful and prepared---- if we are faithful and prepared we will not be deceived---Key**** Preach the Word...
Talking about end-time events and the word of God, is thinking upon God, for it is His word. We should always be longing for the Lord's appearing, for it is our blessed hope. Did Paul not say regarding the gathering of the church, "therefore comfort each other with these words?" In order to comfort each other with these words, it would required discussing these events.
In the book of Revelation, there is a blessing to those who read and those who hear the words of this prophecy. The book of Revelation was given by God the Father to Jesus Christ to show us, his servants, the things that must soon take place.
So yeah, taking about and thinking about end-time events, as well as the rest of scripture, is to be focused on God.
In the book of Revelation, there is a blessing to those who read and those who hear the words of this prophecy. The book of Revelation was given by God the Father to Jesus Christ to show us, his servants, the things that must soon take place.
So yeah, taking about and thinking about end-time events, as well as the rest of scripture, is to be focused on God.
Those of you who are interested in some teaching on the "Revelation" thread I should continue soon---I left off at Chapter 6----Ahwatukee will hopefully help me since his knowledge in this area is solid----I will be approaching the Book of Revelation from a Pre-Trib. position because I feel it fits the Scriptures best---being prepared for the Lord's coming is the key as shown by the Lord in Matthew 25---Five Wise and Five Foolish Virgins----and the Parable of the Goodman of the House----do get drunk and beat the servants for the Lord will return unexpectantly---- this kind of sounds like a Pre-Trib. warning to me---once the Tribulation starts we can figure out the day of the Lord's return---in the middle of the Tribulation the Abomination of Desolation takes place and the Anti-Christ declares he is God in the temple of God---we then know the Anti-Christ has 1260 days until Christ returns---that takes the surprise out the Lord's return----so consider this that if we are waiting for the Lord's unexpected return and being prepared for it why is there more of a focus on the Tribulation and the Anti-Christ----it is almost like the focus has been taken off the coming of Christ to the coming of the Anti-Christ...
Exactly....one GENERAL resurrection/change of the SAVED...those who say tribulation saints are different that CHURCH saints....miss the mark....there is NO place found for their resurrection....and the verbiage of Paul is clear...
the DEAD in Christ and WE which are ALIVE and remain is indicative of ALL the saved....
the DEAD in Christ and WE which are ALIVE and remain is indicative of ALL the saved....