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Thread: Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

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    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

    We have had a few threads lately that reject the fact that as a believer we occasionally fail and sin....The bible speaks to this...the only ones who reject this for the most part are those who

    a. Believe they can lose salvation
    b. Believe they must do good to keep it
    c. Believe they must blend faith, works and be sinless after salvation

    The following verses prove that even the most righteous men of the bible failed and sinned or had sin.....those who deny this...are missing the mark....

    Daniel was a righteous saved child of God....anyone doubt that? NO
    John was a righteous mas whom Jesus loved and an apostle...anyone doubt that? NO
    Paul was a righteous man who was saved and wrote almost half the N.T...anyone doubt that? NO

    Notice their view under inspiration.

    For those who say the saved don't sin......or won't sin.......or are without sin......!

    DANIEL
    Now while I was speaking and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God in behalf of the holy mountain of my God,

    And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;

    JOHN
    If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

    If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

    PAUL
    O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

    For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

    The only man who was sinless 100% was Jesus...even the most faithful men and women of the bible failed and had sin that they struggled with....the above re all present tense...NOT PAST TENSE......!

    For those who say that we advocate a wicked sinful lifestyle because we acknowledge these scriptures.....this is false, misleading and border line lying.........!

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    Default Re: Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

    "My grace is sufficient." -- God


    That sums it up for me.

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    Default Re: Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    "My grace is sufficient." -- God


    That sums it up for me.
    AMEN brother....Where sin abounds<---GRACE did much more abound......thank God the grace of God is preemptive and out bounding our in!

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    Default Re: Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

    Isaiah was a great prophet of God.....He, under inspiration, wrote a 66 chapter book of the bible....the 1st 39 chapters correlate to the O.T. and the last 27 seem to correlate to the N.T. He was a great man of God.....look how he viewed himself in the 6th chapter of the book.

    Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.

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    Default Re: Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    Isaiah was a great prophet of God.....He, under inspiration, wrote a 66 chapter book of the bible....the 1st 39 chapters correlate to the O.T. and the last 27 seem to correlate to the N.T. He was a great man of God.....look how he viewed himself in the 6th chapter of the book.

    Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.
    I can relate to Isaiah, for sure. Opened the Bible to Genesis 1 on January 1st and am reading straight through. I have about 5-6 weeks before getting to Isaiah. Can't wait! I'll be remembering this conversation when I get there.

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    Default Re: Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

    True enough. Sure, no body is perfect. We all inadvertently fail from time to time. But I think once you've truly repented and walk with the Spirit, the nature of your sins changes. Sure, I suppose any Christian could temporarily fall off the wagon and commit a sin. But it seems like our sins should become less frequent and less "severe". By "severe" I mean that Christians become less likely to break one of the ten commandments, but may occasionally slip up by speaking harshly to another. Or judging another. ("Severe". LOL. I anticipate someone instructing me that all sins are equal.)

    I don't think a person earns his way into heaven through good works. But don't the good works just flow naturally as a result of being a Christian? If not, there may be a problem.
    Exodus1 likes this.
    ================================================== ===========
    10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding. Prov. 9:10

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    Default Re: Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

    Ezra was a great scribe who was commissioned by Artaxerxes to teach the people in Israel the Mosaic Law and was in the service of God in the O.T. His ministry confronted the people and their sin.....he also contributed to the bible under inspiration. Note what the bible has to say about EZRA....

    Ezra was praying and confessing
    . He was crying and bowing down in front of God’s Temple.

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    Default Re: Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

    QUOTE:

    We have had a few threads lately that reject the fact that as a believer we occasionally fail and sin....The bible speaks to this...the only ones who reject this for the most part are those who

    a. Believe they can lose salvation
    b. Believe they must do good to keep it
    c. Believe they must blend faith, works and be sinless after salvation

    The following verses prove that even the most righteous men of the bible failed and sinned or had sin.....those who deny this...are missing the mark....

    END QUOTE........

    That makes no sense whatsoever. Those who reject OSAS do so BASED ON THE SCRIPTURES YOU POSTED! What OSAS'ers push is that they DON'T have to repent for such sins as are described in Scripture. You guys say all your sins past, present, future were FORGIVEN when you were saved.

    Very misleading Post, and bordering on lying.

    But, hey, good try
    Stephen63 and followjesus like this.
    Hebrews 13:5 .) Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
    6 .) So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

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    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

    Quote Originally Posted by Prov910 View Post
    True enough. Sure, no body is perfect. We all inadvertently fail from time to time. But I think once you've truly repented and walk with the Spirit, the nature of your sins changes. Sure, I suppose any Christian could temporarily fall off the wagon and commit a sin. But it seems like our sins should become less frequent and less "severe". By "severe" I mean that Christians become less likely to break one of the ten commandments, but may occasionally slip up by speaking harshly to another. Or judging another. ("Severe". LOL. I anticipate someone instructing me that all sins are equal.)

    I don't think a person earns his way into heaven through good works. But don't the good works just flow naturally as a result of being a Christian? If not, there may be a problem.
    The prodigal son, the man committing fornication in the Corinthian church etc....What you say is true....A saved child of God will not live a continual lifestyle of sin.....and for sure will master over many areas in their life if submissive to the truth and the leadership of the Holy Spirit....but at no moment in time are they sinless or without sin.....even one work or piece of fruit proves what type of tree it is, but will remind ALL....every tree that bears will grow and mature for years before it actually bears...even 1 (one) apple proves it is an apple tree and even JESUS stated that 1 (ONE) cup of water in his name to a believer is a good work and rewarded.
    Hungry, Exodus1 and Galatea like this.

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    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

    Quote Originally Posted by p_rehbein View Post
    QUOTE:

    We have had a few threads lately that reject the fact that as a believer we occasionally fail and sin....The bible speaks to this...the only ones who reject this for the most part are those who

    a. Believe they can lose salvation
    b. Believe they must do good to keep it
    c. Believe they must blend faith, works and be sinless after salvation

    The following verses prove that even the most righteous men of the bible failed and sinned or had sin.....those who deny this...are missing the mark....

    END QUOTE........

    That makes no sense whatsoever. Those who reject OSAS do so BASED ON THE SCRIPTURES YOU POSTED! What OSAS'ers push is that they DON'T have to repent for such sins as are described in Scripture. You guys say all your sins past, present, future were FORGIVEN when you were saved.

    Very misleading Post, and bordering on lying.

    But, hey, good try
    Not hardly PAUL.....my statement is valid....every person I have encountered who believes they are sinless believes one of the three listed...You point is moot, invalid and to be frank...misses the mark!

    AND I never implied anything you accused me of..so that makes you the one border line lying!<--IN BOLDED

    You owe me a public apology for accusing me of something I did not post nor say nor imply!
    Last edited by dcontroversal; March 10th, 2017 at 06:54 PM.

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    Senior Member BillG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    We have had a few threads lately that reject the fact that as a believer we occasionally fail and sin....The bible speaks to this...the only ones who reject this for the most part are those who

    a. Believe they can lose salvation
    b. Believe they must do good to keep it
    c. Believe they must blend faith, works and be sinless after salvation

    The following verses prove that even the most righteous men of the bible failed and sinned or had sin.....those who deny this...are missing the mark....

    Daniel was a righteous saved child of God....anyone doubt that? NO
    John was a righteous mas whom Jesus loved and an apostle...anyone doubt that? NO
    Paul was a righteous man who was saved and wrote almost half the N.T...anyone doubt that? NO

    Notice their view under inspiration.

    For those who say the saved don't sin......or won't sin.......or are without sin......!

    DANIEL
    Now while I was speaking and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God in behalf of the holy mountain of my God,

    And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;

    JOHN
    If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

    If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

    PAUL
    O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

    For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

    The only man who was sinless 100% was Jesus...even the most faithful men and women of the bible failed and had sin that they struggled with....the above re all present tense...NOT PAST TENSE......!

    For those who say that we advocate a wicked sinful lifestyle because we acknowledge these scriptures.....this is false, misleading and border line lying.........!
    I don't quite get why people think this way? If I could live a sinless lifestyle after believing in Jesus the why did he have die.

    All we need to us to believe his claims and thats it.

    I think also people tend to focus on sins of commission spoken off in the N.T. Like adultery, lying, gluttony and so on.

    What about sins of omission?

    Have we walked the extra mile, fed the poor, visited to sick, given to the needy.
    The very things Jesus will ask when he separates the sheep and the goats.

    I am the first to admit that I sin, I hate it when I do.

    When I do there is only one place to go. The throne of God and thank him for his mercy and amazing grace.
    Just like Daniel, John and Paul.

    As David said, I would offer a sacrifice but I know that's not what you want. It's a broken and contrite spirit.

    Amazing Grace how sweet that sound that saves a wretch like me.

    Amazing Grace that not only saves me but keeps me saved.
    Lord

    Help me to be the person my dog thinks I am.

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    Default Re: Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

    Quote Originally Posted by BillG View Post
    I don't quite get why people think this way? If I could live a sinless lifestyle after believing in Jesus the why did he have die.

    All we need to us to believe his claims and thats it.

    I think also people tend to focus on sins of commission spoken off in the N.T. Like adultery, lying, gluttony and so on.

    What about sins of omission?

    Have we walked the extra mile, fed the poor, visited to sick, given to the needy.
    The very things Jesus will ask when he separates the sheep and the goats.

    I am the first to admit that I sin, I hate it when I do.

    When I do there is only one place to go. The throne of God and thank him for his mercy and amazing grace.
    Just like Daniel, John and Paul.

    As David said, I would offer a sacrifice but I know that's not what you want. It's a broken and contrite spirit.

    Amazing Grace how sweet that sound that saves a wretch like me.

    Amazing Grace that not only saves me but keeps me saved.
    A HONEST post here UNLIKE POST 8 which embellishes what I SAID and implies things I DID NOT SAY NOR IMPLY! See how those who teach you can lose salvation are....they embellish, twist add to and make crap up!

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    Default Re: Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    PAUL
    O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

    For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

    The only man who was sinless 100% was Jesus...even the most faithful men and women of the bible failed and had sin that they struggled with....the above re all present tense...NOT PAST TENSE......!

    For those who say that we advocate a wicked sinful lifestyle because we acknowledge these scriptures.....this is false, misleading and border line lying.........!
    If honesty is our watch word, we are never safe or sure.
    Paul is the example of certainty. I will kill those blaspheming Christians. Oppps

    We can know the things that do not trouble us too much but not the traits and
    issues very close to home.

    I come at this subject of knowing failure, but seeing Christ and the Holy Spirit as
    a promise of victory.

    If anything in church history teaches us, this is a long and narrow path and most
    fall off it, at some point. And probably unless the Lord is by our sides we would
    all wonder astray, because so much is reliant on the communion we have with Him
    and our purity in our hearts.

    Just look at cc and you realise after decades of following the Lord, we are often
    still caught in our own personalities and histories more than in the grace and victory
    of Christ. I am certainly no better than any, and know in all things I have more to
    learn, but I can only do this by being part of the body of Christ and bringing glory
    to His name.
    Stephen63, Hungry, Jimbone and 1 others like this.
    I share "Jesus Christ and him crucified" 1 cor 2:2
    "He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 cor 15:57

    The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you

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    Default Re: Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

    Quote Originally Posted by Prov910 View Post
    True enough. Sure, no body is perfect. We all inadvertently fail from time to time. But I think once you've truly repented and walk with the Spirit, the nature of your sins changes. Sure, I suppose any Christian could temporarily fall off the wagon and commit a sin. But it seems like our sins should become less frequent and less "severe". By "severe" I mean that Christians become less likely to break one of the ten commandments, but may occasionally slip up by speaking harshly to another. Or judging another. ("Severe". LOL. I anticipate someone instructing me that all sins are equal.)

    I don't think a person earns his way into heaven through good works. But don't the good works just flow naturally as a result of being a Christian? If not, there may be a problem.
    Yes I agree. As we walk with God then the fruit of the Holy Spirit should increase and our propensity to sin.
    Even if we are stuck in something that is very hard to break we should be hating it and asking God for help and not embracing an attitude of "Oh well that's just me, God understands and I'm forgiven" and just carry on.
    Hungry, dcontroversal and Jimbone like this.
    Lord

    Help me to be the person my dog thinks I am.

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    Default Re: Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    Not hardly PAUL.....my statement is valid....every person I have encountered who believes they are sinless believes one of the three listed...You point is moot, invalid and to be frank...misses the mark!

    AND I never implied anything you accused me of..so that makes you the one border line lying!<--IN BOLDED

    You owe me a public apology for accusing me of something I did not post nor say nor imply!

    Not hardly D.

    Nowhere did you say anything about the NEED for those believers who sin to repent and ask for forgiveness in your OP.

    I believe we (you and I) have had many encounters on this very subject, and I HAVE NEVER PROFESSED what you stated in your OP. The point is far from moot, because you are taking pot shots at those who disagree with your belief in OSAS.


    FROM OP;

    The only man who was sinless 100% was Jesus...even the most faithful men and women of the bible failed and had sin that they struggled with....the above re all present tense...NOT PAST TENSE......!

    For those who say that we advocate a wicked sinful lifestyle because we acknowledge these scriptures.....this is false, misleading and border line lying.........!

    You clearly defend OSAS, and condemn those who do not......

    In my opinion, YOU owe me and anyone else who rejects the OSAS teaching a public apology for the self serving attack.
    Roughsoul1991 likes this.

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    Default Re: Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

    Still lying are we? Hmm..............what a load of crap this is

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    A HONEST post here UNLIKE POST 8 which embellishes what I SAID and implies things I DID NOT SAY NOR IMPLY! See how those who teach you can lose salvation are....they embellish, twist add to and make crap up!
    Hebrews 13:5 .) Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
    6 .) So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

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    Default Re: Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

    Kind David is another prime example....He I described as a man after God's own heart, chosen of GOD, blessed of GOD and anointed of GOD to lead Israel...HE ALSO wrote numerous Psalms used in temple worship and served God faithfully most of his life. He sinned grievously with Bathsheba and had her husband Uriah murdered...even had Uriah carry his own death warrant.....

    David is a prime example of one who never lost his salvation, the bible speaks to the JOY of salvation being temporarily removed, strong conviction, the sword in David's house and even disease in his old age due to his sin. He is a prime example of a saved sinner. The following is a prime example of God's grace out bounding David's sin....NOTE DAVID acknowledge to NATHAN that he has sinned and what NATHAN states.

    I acknowledged my sin to You, And my iniquity I did not hide; I said, "I will confess my transgressions to the LORD"; And You forgave the guilt of my sin. Selah.

    Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the LORD
    ." And Nathan said to David, "The LORD also has taken away your sin; you shall not die.

    And David said to God, “Was it not I who gave command to number the people? It is I who have sinned and done great evil. But these sheep, what have they done? Please let your hand, O LORD my God, be against me and against my father’s house. But do not let the plague be on your people.”

    David committed these sins as a saved child of GOD

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    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

    Quote Originally Posted by p_rehbein View Post
    Still lying are we? Hmm..............what a load of crap this is
    KEEP lying pal...everyone can read and see you attacked me and this thread with twisted and embellished accusations and things I DID NOT SAY NOR IMPLY

    For someone who teaches you can lose salvation...Hebrews states you can never get it back (if it were possible)
    Last edited by dcontroversal; March 10th, 2017 at 07:11 PM.

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    Default Re: Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

    Quote Originally Posted by p_rehbein View Post
    QUOTE:

    We have had a few threads lately that reject the fact that as a believer we occasionally fail and sin....The bible speaks to this...the only ones who reject this for the most part are those who

    a. Believe they can lose salvation
    b. Believe they must do good to keep it
    c. Believe they must blend faith, works and be sinless after salvation

    The following verses prove that even the most righteous men of the bible failed and sinned or had sin.....those who deny this...are missing the mark....

    END QUOTE........

    That makes no sense whatsoever. Those who reject OSAS do so BASED ON THE SCRIPTURES YOU POSTED! What OSAS'ers push is that they DON'T have to repent for such sins as are described in Scripture. You guys say all your sins past, present, future were FORGIVEN when you were saved.

    Very misleading Post, and bordering on lying.

    But, hey, good try
    I am am not sure what your point is here.

    What makes you think that those who are in the OSAS camp don't need to repent of sins as described in scripture?
    I would ask what you think repentance is?

    Sorry but the term "You Guys' is not an endearing term or one that is conducive to opening up a meaningful conversation.
    Bordering on lying? One is either lying or not. There is no in between.
    Lord

    Help me to be the person my dog thinks I am.

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    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    KEEP lying pal...everyone can read and see you attacked me and this thread with twisted and embellished accusations and things I DID NOT SAY NOR IMPLY

    For someone who teaches you can lose salvation...Hebrews states you can never get it back (if it were possible)
    AND I WILL ADD....GO FIND ONE PLACE where I EVER SAID one does not have to repent and or confess SIN....I will gladly wait........POST IT HERE..VERBATIM!

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