The Rapture of the Church

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Sep 3, 2016
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#1
Will there be a gap between the Rapture of the Church and the Great Tribulation period beginning?
 
Dec 2, 2016
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#2
No...because the bible tells us that the tribulation comes first and then the gathering of the church.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#3
No...because the bible tells us that the tribulation comes first and then the gathering of the church.
Please provide the scripture(s) that say that the tribulation, the wrath of God, comes before the gathering of the church?
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,162
2,380
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#4
Will there be a gap between the Rapture of the Church and the Great Tribulation period beginning?
Hello MessageOfTheCross,

I'm sure that once the church has been gathered, that the revealing of the antichrist will be in close proximity. The removal of millions of people would be a perfect time for the antichrist to be revealed and will probably refer to those missing in a negative light. But regardless of how much of a gap there will be from the time that the church is gathered to the time when that first seal is opened, it is irrelevant and that because anyone who is not gathered as being apart of the church, they will be caught in that time of tribulation, the time of God's wrath.
 
Nov 19, 2016
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#5
It is the tribulation,the resurrection,and the wrath of God,in that order.

God is giving the world 7 years to have their way,and cause all people who do not love Him to follow the beast kingdom,and when they take the mark,then they have given up their ability to repent,and they will make war against the saints,and God will take His children,then punish the world,and put an end to this sin business,which He has to eventually do that.

The ten horn kingdom will rule for the first three and one half years,and the world can still repent of their sins,which the 6 trumpets,6 disasters,happen,and warnings to the world to turn to God,but after the 6th trumpet the world will not turn to God,so He allows the beast to rule over them,and will crack down on the wicked,for they did not heed the warnings,and the ten horn kingdom failed at providing peace for the world,as the worse war in history happened,the 6th trumpet,that caused one third of the population of the world to perish,because nuclear weapons were used,and they did not turn to God,but turned to the man of sin,so God causes the world to follow the beast kingdom to end this sin business.

Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

The beast has power to rule,and deceive all who do not love God for the last three and one half years,and cannot rule unless God allows it.

Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them.

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Dan 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The beast rules for three and one half years,and is the time of the great tribulation,and the saints are given into his hands for three and one half years,and when he scatters their power,then the saints will be resurrected,then the wrath of God poured on the world.

The wrath of God is not in the tribulation,why,because God is allowing the beast to rule for three and one half years,and to deceive all who do not love Him,and to make war against the saints,and if the wrath of God was in the tribulation,then how does the beast have power to rule for three and one half years,which this power to rule can only come from God.If God is giving the beast power to rule for the three and one half years,the tribulation,He is not going to against them until the time is over.

The wrath of God is not in the tribulation,why,because who do you think the tribulation is for,it is not for the world,but it is for the saints,which will be persecution on a scale that has never been done before,for it involves the whole world.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,162
2,380
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#6
It is the tribulation,the resurrection,and the wrath of God,in that order.
From the on-set of the church until this very day, believers have suffered and are suffering trial and tribulation, which Jesus said we would have in the world. This is not the wrath of God, but comes at the hands of mankind and the powers of darkness. Once the church has been gathered. then the world will enter into that time of God's wrath. That last seven years is not the wrath of man nor the wrath of Satan, for it is the fulfillment of the seventy sevens that were decreed upon Israel. During that time God will also deal with the rest of the world who have rejected His Son

I will build my church and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

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Christ returns to the earth to end the age
 
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Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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#7
No Rapture! Not in the Bible. And no, not harpazio, either. Just a doctrine which makes no sense, because Jesus is only returning once, and not in secret. That is simply not in the Bible!
 
Nov 19, 2016
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#8
The Church has been persecuted ever since its start,but I am talking the three and one half years of the beast,then the resurrection,then the wrath of God.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
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#9
The church was not removed from the earth - Christ came to dwell with the church.

1 Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming (
Greek– parousia) of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1 Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet (Greek- apantesis) the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The Greek parousia and apantesis would have specific meanings to the people of 1st century AD.


Greek definitions (not all)


parousia - presence, of persons; arrival; esp. Visit of a royal or official personage

apantesis - to move from a place to meet a person; then, generally, to meet, encounter



Paul's usage of the words do not suggest a removal of Christians from earth, but rather Christ is visiting them to dwell with them.

Parousia and apantesis when used together are being used in a “technical” sense, the words in the ancient world would be used (and understood) to describe a visit by a king or a royal dignitary when making a visit to a town or a city.

The people being in wait for the dignitary would watch for his coming, they would then go out to “meet”
(apantesis) him.They would then escort him back to the city. The city is the destination. He was not coming to remove them from the city.

We can see how “apantesis”, meet is used in the following verses:

Mat 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet (Greek– apantesis) the bridegroom.

Mat 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bride groom cometh; go ye out to meet (Greek- apantesis) him.


Acts 28:15 And from thence, when the brethren heard of us, they came to meet (Greek– apantesis) us as far as Appii forum, and the three taverns: whom when Paul saw, he thanked God, and took courage.

Paul is telling the Thessalonian's they will meet him in the air in a spiritual event – his coming in the clouds – just as Paul was caught up to the third heaven.
 
Dec 2, 2016
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#10
AH: always says where is the scripture, that is nonsense, in Matt 24 and Mark 13 Jesus clearly describes a period of war, famine, disease, earthquakes, and great persecution against Christians, and then calls that period of time the great tribulation and then describes His return to gather the church after that tribulation period. In 2Thess 2 Paul tells us that we cannot be gathered by the Lord until after the revealing of the Antichrist(son of perdition)....THERE ARE THE SCRIPTURES...READ THEM AND WEEP!
 
Nov 19, 2016
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#11
Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

The battle of Armageddon when the world attacks Jerusalem,Israel,and God fights against them.In 70 A.D. when Jerusalem was overthrown God allowed the Roman Empire to do it,and did not stop them,because of Israel's rejection of Christ,but when they attack Israel here God does not allow it,but fights them and defeats them,so the overthrow in 70 A.D.,and this one are two different attacks,and time frames,and it is all nations together,the whole world.

Also when this attack occurs,and God comes to fight them,the saints come with Him,so the saints must have been caught up to be with God,and then come back with Him.

Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Act 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives,
Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

The way Jesus ascended is the way He will descend when He comes back,which Jesus ascended from the Mount of Olives,and when Jesus comes back all the saints are with Him,and He steps down on the Mount of Olives.

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Again Jesus comes from heaven,to earth to fight the world,and the saints come with Him.

Joe 3:1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
Joe 3:2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.
Joe 3:9 Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up:
Joe 3:10 Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.
Joe 3:11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD.

And again in another place when God fights the world that attacks Israel,the saints come with Him.

So the saints must of been resurrected to heaven,and then came back with Jesus when He saves Israel.

Some people try to make out Old Testament prophesies of the attack on Jerusalem to be in 70 A.D.,which is a mistake,why,because the overthrow of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.,God allowed to happen,and to scatter the Jews in to the nations for their rejection of Christ,so God did not stop them,but allowed the Roman Empire go against them.

But many scriptures of Jerusalem being attacked say it is the whole world attacking Israel,and God will save Israel.

Jerusalem 70 A.D.-God allowed the Roman Empire to attack Jerusalem.Israel loses the fight.

Old Testament prophesies-when they attack Jerusalem,God does not allow it,but fights against them,and saves Jerusalem,Israel.Israel wins the fight by God.

Two different attacks,two different armies,2 different time frames.
 
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popeye

Guest
#12
No Rapture! Not in the Bible. And no, not harpazio, either. Just a doctrine which makes no sense, because Jesus is only returning once, and not in secret. That is simply not in the Bible!
He returns in rev 14,and at the end of the gt. That is 2 right there,not counting the rapture.

There is no gathering after the gt,except what is described in mat 24,which is a gathering IN HEAVEN,NOT EARTH,BY ANGELS,NOT JESUS.

(all from the bible,impossible to miss)
 
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popeye

Guest
#13
AH: always says where is the scripture, that is nonsense, in Matt 24 and Mark 13 Jesus clearly describes a period of war, famine, disease, earthquakes, and great persecution against Christians, and then calls that period of time the great tribulation and then describes His return to gather the church after that tribulation period. In 2Thess 2 Paul tells us that we cannot be gathered by the Lord until after the revealing of the Antichrist(son of perdition)....THERE ARE THE SCRIPTURES...READ THEM AND WEEP!
Are you listening?

I already told you,both sides of the debate believe that the ac is revealed prior to the rapture.
You have no point there.

How do you see mat 24's gathering FROM HEAVEN,BY ANGELS, the same as the gathering FROM EARTH,BY JESUS?

You do realize your deal is absolutely impossible?
 

88

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2016
3,517
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#14
Will there be a gap between the Rapture of the Church and the Great Tribulation period beginning?
***I don't think anyone knows for sure or there is Scripture that points to it happening immediately----there will probably be a short interval for the Covenant of Death to be signed with the Anti-Christ (Daniel 9:27) which marks the start of the 7 year period of Tribulation -----this attachment may help...
[h=3]Reasons for a Gap between the Rapture and the Great Tribulation[/h]
 
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popeye

Guest
#15
It is the tribulation,the resurrection,and the wrath of God,in that order.

God is giving the world 7 years to have their way,and cause all people who do not love Him to follow the beast kingdom,and when they take the mark,then they have given up their ability to repent,and they will make war against the saints,and God will take His children,then punish the world,and put an end to this sin business,which He has to eventually do that.

The ten horn kingdom will rule for the first three and one half years,and the world can still repent of their sins,which the 6 trumpets,6 disasters,happen,and warnings to the world to turn to God,but after the 6th trumpet the world will not turn to God,so He allows the beast to rule over them,and will crack down on the wicked,for they did not heed the warnings,and the ten horn kingdom failed at providing peace for the world,as the worse war in history happened,the 6th trumpet,that caused one third of the population of the world to perish,because nuclear weapons were used,and they did not turn to God,but turned to the man of sin,so God causes the world to follow the beast kingdom to end this sin business.

Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

The beast has power to rule,and deceive all who do not love God for the last three and one half years,and cannot rule unless God allows it.

Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them.

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Dan 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The beast rules for three and one half years,and is the time of the great tribulation,and the saints are given into his hands for three and one half years,and when he scatters their power,then the saints will be resurrected,then the wrath of God poured on the world.

The wrath of God is not in the tribulation,why,because God is allowing the beast to rule for three and one half years,and to deceive all who do not love Him,and to make war against the saints,and if the wrath of God was in the tribulation,then how does the beast have power to rule for three and one half years,which this power to rule can only come from God.If God is giving the beast power to rule for the three and one half years,the tribulation,He is not going to against them until the time is over.

The wrath of God is not in the tribulation,why,because who do you think the tribulation is for,it is not for the world,but it is for the saints,which will be persecution on a scale that has never been done before,for it involves the whole world.

The beast rules for three and one half years,and is the time of the great tribulation,and the saints are given into his hands for three and one half years,and when he scatters their power,then the saints will be resurrected,then the wrath of God poured on the world.
The innumerable number before the throne (millions? billions?) are those murdered by the AC during the trib.

there are no saints left alive to rapture,after he gets done. In fact,it says "power was given unto him to overcome the saints"

To further add to the "mid trib error", we are given 2 examples by Jesus concerning his return. Lot and Moses. In both cases,there is no tribulation before the judgement. In fact,in the 10 virgin parable there isn't even a hint of tribulation.
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
#16
This month I've been listening to a study on the topic of the Rapture. It is such a shame so many believers don't believe and look for His coming. Instead many are looking for the anti christ or the judgment or the tribulation. This brings no encouragement for the church. We should be looking forward for life not death. ;)

Reading 1Thessalonians 4:13-18 encourages and comforts and builds us up in the faith in the love and provision of God in Christ. HE IS COMING FOR US!!!! Looking for His return is a wonderful way to live here.


1 Thessalonians 4:13-18Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

[SUP]13 [/SUP]Now also we would not have you ignorant, brethren, about those who fall asleep [[SUP][a][/SUP]in death], that you may not grieve [for them] as the rest do who have no hope [beyond the grave].
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will also bring with Him through Jesus those who have fallen asleep [[SUP][b][/SUP]in death].
[SUP]
15 [/SUP]For this we declare to you by the Lord’s [own] word, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord shall in no way precede [into His presence] or have any advantage at all over those who have previously fallen asleep [in Him [SUP][c][/SUP]in death].
[SUP]
16 [/SUP]For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud cry of summons, with the shout of an archangel, and with the blast of the trumpet of God. And those who have departed this life in Christ will rise first.
[SUP]
17 [/SUP]Then we, the living ones who remain [on the earth], shall simultaneously be caught up along with [the resurrected dead] in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so always (through the eternity of the eternities) we shall be with the Lord!
[SUP]
18 [/SUP]Therefore comfort and encourage one another with these words.


Many in the church are missing out on all this comfort and encouragement that God wants us to have as we look around at the state of this world. We are His children who have escaped the wrath to come of God because of our lovely Savior. It brings another reason and desire to worship Him in thanksgiving and praise.

It gives strength and encouragement to be reminded we do not grieve as the world does. That Jesus is actually coming for us as He descends from heaven with a shout! with the voice of the archangel and the trumpet of God!! The graves of those who died in Christ before us will open! those dead bodies will be changed given new bodies; our new resurrected bodies will be given to us too and we will fly up and gather together with those who came out of the graves before and meet them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air!!

This is going to be GREAT!!!!!!




 
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Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,162
2,380
113
#17
This month I've been listening to a study on the topic of the Rapture. It is such a shame so many believers don't believe and look for His coming. Instead many are looking for the anti christ or the judgment or the tribulation. This brings no encouragement for the church. We should be looking forward for life not death. ;)

Reading 1Thessalonians 4:13-18 encourages and comforts and builds us up in the faith in the love and provision of God in Christ. HE IS COMING FOR US!!!! Looking for His return is a wonderful way to live here.


1 Thessalonians 4:13-18Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

[SUP]13 [/SUP]Now also we would not have you ignorant, brethren, about those who fall asleep [[SUP][a][/SUP]in death], that you may not grieve [for them] as the rest do who have no hope [beyond the grave].
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will also bring with Him through Jesus those who have fallen asleep [[SUP][b][/SUP]in death].
[SUP]
15 [/SUP]For this we declare to you by the Lord’s [own] word, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord shall in no way precede [into His presence] or have any advantage at all over those who have previously fallen asleep [in Him [SUP][c][/SUP]in death].
[SUP]
16 [/SUP]For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud cry of summons, with the shout of an archangel, and with the blast of the trumpet of God. And those who have departed this life in Christ will rise first.
[SUP]
17 [/SUP]Then we, the living ones who remain [on the earth], shall simultaneously be caught up along with [the resurrected dead] in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so always (through the eternity of the eternities) we shall be with the Lord!
[SUP]
18 [/SUP]Therefore comfort and encourage one another with these words.


Many in the church are missing out on all this comfort and encouragement that God wants us to have as we look around at the state of this world. We are His children who have escaped the wrath to come of God because of our lovely Savior. It brings another reason and desire to worship Him in thanksgiving and praise.

It gives strength and encouragement to be reminded we do not grieve as the world does. That Jesus is actually coming for us as He descends from heaven with a shout! with the voice of the archangel and the trumpet of God!! The graves of those who died in Christ before us will open! those dead bodies will be changed given new bodies; our new resurrected bodies will be given to us too and we will fly up and gather together with those who came out of the graves before and meet them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air!!

This is going to be GREAT!!!!!!

Hello JoanieMarie,

The Lord bless you for your faith in this matter. Yes, it is unfortunate that we have people who are expecting the Lord to send his bride through his wrath first and then gather her afterwards. It would definitely be no blessed hope, nor would it be something for believers to comfort one another about. Their belief stems from false teachings and a lack of understanding of the severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath.


And yes, our gathering is going to be very great!
 
Aug 25, 2016
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#19
I have posted these same words here before and will continue to do so each time I see the false Teachings of a Rapture. This will be Satan's message when he shows up. Don't be one who jumps in his wagon. The whole world has been setup for this. Be careful my friend.1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
But I would not have you to be ignorant brethren concerning them which are asleep that ye sorrow not even asothers which have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died androse again even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring withhim.
The subject here in verse 13 refers to where the dead are. Verse 14 clearly tells us where they are. Theyare with the Father. Thess 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of theLord shall not prevent them which are asleep. What we are being told here is that at the Lords return he will bring those that have diedin him with him. Simple to understand. Verse 16 doesn't read correctly it should read : For the Lord himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout with the voice of the Arch-Angel and with theTrump of God and the dead in Christ shall return with him. We already know where the dead are so no need to say shall rise first. Thiswritten the way it is leads people to believe they'll be popping outof holes in the ground. The Trump of God refers to the last Trump youfind in the book of Revelation. I have read here on this Forum that there are other Trumps other than those spoke of in Revelation. I asked for someone to tell me where but as expected I've never beengiven an answer. If you know please tell me. Verse 17 tells us whathappens at Christ's return. 1 Cor.15:52-53 Verse 18 is just simply telling us to not worry about where the Dead are as the subjectstarts out in Verse 13.
Nowhere in Gods word does it say Christwill return twice. If you are one of those who believe this your setting yourself up to be in Satan's wagon when he tells you hes hereto rapture you away. Be very careful my friend don't be misled. Do alittle study check out the word of God. Don't believe Me or any other Man check it out yourself.
 
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notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#20
I have posted these same words here before and will continue to do so each time I see the false Teachings of a Rapture. This will be Satan's message when he shows up. Don't be one who jumps in his wagon. The whole world has been setup for this. Be careful my friend.1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
But I would not have you to be ignorant brethren concerning them which are asleep that ye sorrow not even asothers which have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died androse again even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring withhim.
The subject here in verse 13 refers to where the dead are. Verse 14 clearly tells us where they are. Theyare with the Father. Thess 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of theLord shall not prevent them which are asleep. What we are being told here is that at the Lords return he will bring those that have diedin him with him. Simple to understand. Verse 16 doesn't read correctly it should read : For the Lord himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout with the voice of the Arch-Angel and with theTrump of God and the dead in Christ shall return with him. We already know where the dead are so no need to say shall rise first. Thiswritten the way it is leads people to believe they'll be popping outof holes in the ground. The Trump of God refers to the last Trump youfind in the book of Revelation. I have read here on this Forum that there are other Trumps other than those spoke of in Revelation. I asked for someone to tell me where but as expected I've never beengiven an answer. If you know please tell me. Verse 17 tells us whathappens at Christ's return. 1 Cor.15:52-53 Verse 18 is just simply telling us to not worry about where the Dead are as the subjectstarts out in Verse 13.
Nowhere in Gods word does it say Christwill return twice. If you are one of those who believe this your setting yourself up to be in Satan's wagon when he tells you hes hereto rapture you away. Be very careful my friend don't be misled. Do alittle study check out the word of God. Don't believe Me or any other Man check it out yourself.
You fail to distinguish between Christ returning in the clouds for His church as He left in the clouds He will return. Christ will return for Israel at the end of the tribulation and actually touch down in Jerusalem.

Tribulation is upon Israel not the spotless bride of Christ which is the church.

You won't see it until you see the difference between Israel and the church in the end times.

For the cause of Christ
Roger