Two natures of Christ in the BIBLE?
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In essence are we not the same.....in the following way...
Our spirit has been born again by incorruptible seed and cries Abba Abba...it is eternally saved, sealed, justified and sanctified in Christ (positionally) and does not sin
It is bound in a fallen dead body of sin that is not subject unto the law of God and neither indeed can be...
Jesus speaks to this...
the spirit is indeed willing but the flesh is weak.....
Our spirit has been born again by incorruptible seed and cries Abba Abba...it is eternally saved, sealed, justified and sanctified in Christ (positionally) and does not sin
It is bound in a fallen dead body of sin that is not subject unto the law of God and neither indeed can be...
Jesus speaks to this...
the spirit is indeed willing but the flesh is weak.....
Ok issachar, try and look at it this way? Jesus often times referred to Himself as (1) the Son of Man and as (2) the Son of God. He is the Son of Man on His mothers side and her nature is "human." He is the Son of God on His Fathers side and His nature is "deity/God," hence the two natures within the ONE person of Jesus Christ, and Jesus is the only person that has two natures.
It's a universal law that like produces like. Beavers produce other beavers etc. Or to put it another way, can you give me an example of a son that does not share the same nature as its father? Matthew 1 explains the birth of Jesus on His mothers side and Hebrews 1:1-3 explains how Jesus has the exact same nature as His Father which again is deity. In fact, Jesus was crucified for blasphemy by claiming God was "HIS OWN FATHER." Any questions I will be happy to address.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
It's a universal law that like produces like. Beavers produce other beavers etc. Or to put it another way, can you give me an example of a son that does not share the same nature as its father? Matthew 1 explains the birth of Jesus on His mothers side and Hebrews 1:1-3 explains how Jesus has the exact same nature as His Father which again is deity. In fact, Jesus was crucified for blasphemy by claiming God was "HIS OWN FATHER." Any questions I will be happy to address.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Ok issachar, try and look at it this way? Jesus often times referred to Himself as (1) the Son of Man and as (2) the Son of God. He is the Son of Man on His mothers side and her nature is "human." He is the Son of God on His Fathers side and His nature is "deity/God," hence the two natures within the ONE person of Jesus Christ, and Jesus is the only person that has two natures.
It's a universal law that like produces like. Beavers produce other beavers etc. Or to put it another way, can you give me an example of a son that does not share the same nature as its father? Matthew 1 explains the birth of Jesus on His mothers side and Hebrews 1:1-3 explains how Jesus has the exact same nature as His Father which again is deity. In fact, Jesus was crucified for blasphemy by claiming God was "HIS OWN FATHER." Any questions I will be happy to address.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
It's a universal law that like produces like. Beavers produce other beavers etc. Or to put it another way, can you give me an example of a son that does not share the same nature as its father? Matthew 1 explains the birth of Jesus on His mothers side and Hebrews 1:1-3 explains how Jesus has the exact same nature as His Father which again is deity. In fact, Jesus was crucified for blasphemy by claiming God was "HIS OWN FATHER." Any questions I will be happy to address.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
thats a great answer, ill share this with others in my circle as well.
I have one question, why did the Jews in Jesus' time say that Jesus is making Himself God when saying: im the son of God.
To me its not claiming diety, but i can see from scripture they took it as such, maybe its the hebrew culture im not familiar enough with, but my guess is that they interpreted it as Jesus is saying "God is my Father, therefore we share the same nature".
Would my guess be correct?
John 1 (NIV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word
was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.
9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world.10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word
was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.
9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world.10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.
Christ is the Son of God. He was in the beginning with God and was God, John 1.1. He created all things, John 1.3. In the beginning God created, Genesis 1.1.
No believer would allow another person to address them as "My Lord and My God." To accept such a greeting is to be guilty of blasphemy against God. Yet, Jesus accepted it from Thomas, John 20.28.
Who can forgive sins? God. Jesus forgave sins. Jesus is God, Matthew 9.1-8.
Jesus was God in the flesh. Jesus is the Christ. Christ is divine. Is God.
In responding to your question, I do not mean to suggest I know more than you.
No believer would allow another person to address them as "My Lord and My God." To accept such a greeting is to be guilty of blasphemy against God. Yet, Jesus accepted it from Thomas, John 20.28.
Who can forgive sins? God. Jesus forgave sins. Jesus is God, Matthew 9.1-8.
Jesus was God in the flesh. Jesus is the Christ. Christ is divine. Is God.
In responding to your question, I do not mean to suggest I know more than you.
F
"Sacrifice and offering You did not desire; My ears have You opened: burnt offering and sin offering have You not required. Then said I, Lo, I have come: in the volume of the book it is written of Me, I delight to do Your will, O My God: yes, Your law is within My heart.” Psalm 40:6-8
“Wherefore when He came into the world, He said, Sacrifice and offering You would not, but a body have You prepared for Me: in burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin. You have had no pleasure. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of Me) to do your will, O God.” Hebrews 10:5-7
“Wherefore when He came into the world, He said, Sacrifice and offering You would not, but a body have You prepared for Me: in burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin. You have had no pleasure. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of Me) to do your will, O God.” Hebrews 10:5-7
Jesus calls God ‘the Father’ or ‘my Father’ 107 times and refers to himself as ‘the Son of God’ or simply ‘the son’ in context with ‘the Father’ around 30 times. John 5:18 shows that his contemporaries understood him to be ‘making himself equal with God’.
This places Jesus in a unique relationship with the Father. This relationship is further emphasized in the latter half of the Gospel when Jesus claims to be one with the Father (John 10:30, 38; 14:10-11; 17:11), existing before creation (John 17:5), and owning all that God owns (John 16:15; 17:10). This is developed further in Jesus’ last discourse, until the disciples recognize in John 20:28 that Jesus is God incarnate. However, in this unity, there is still a distinction held in the Father-Son language leaving us with a united-but-separate view of the relationship. This distinction is most revealed in the ‘sending’ language. Many times Jesus describes himself as being sent by the Father.
One aspect of this Father-Son relationship is love. This is introduced in John 3:35 and raised again in 5:20. The Father loves the Son (John 15:9, 17:23-29) and the Son loves the Father (John 14:31). Out of that love, Jesus is obedient to his Father (John 14:31), and he loves the Son because of that obedience (John 10:17). This obedience is already implied in the concept of ‘being sent’, but is further defined in later passages; Jesus obeys the will of the father (John 6:38), does his work (John 17:4) and speaks what he has been commanded (John 12:49-50). Further references to this obedience are evenly spread throughout the Gospel. Even this obedience infers a unity and equality with the Father (John 5:17, 14:10). Jesus’ obedience is reflected in His mission. Sonship in the Gospel of John | Theopedia
This places Jesus in a unique relationship with the Father. This relationship is further emphasized in the latter half of the Gospel when Jesus claims to be one with the Father (John 10:30, 38; 14:10-11; 17:11), existing before creation (John 17:5), and owning all that God owns (John 16:15; 17:10). This is developed further in Jesus’ last discourse, until the disciples recognize in John 20:28 that Jesus is God incarnate. However, in this unity, there is still a distinction held in the Father-Son language leaving us with a united-but-separate view of the relationship. This distinction is most revealed in the ‘sending’ language. Many times Jesus describes himself as being sent by the Father.
One aspect of this Father-Son relationship is love. This is introduced in John 3:35 and raised again in 5:20. The Father loves the Son (John 15:9, 17:23-29) and the Son loves the Father (John 14:31). Out of that love, Jesus is obedient to his Father (John 14:31), and he loves the Son because of that obedience (John 10:17). This obedience is already implied in the concept of ‘being sent’, but is further defined in later passages; Jesus obeys the will of the father (John 6:38), does his work (John 17:4) and speaks what he has been commanded (John 12:49-50). Further references to this obedience are evenly spread throughout the Gospel. Even this obedience infers a unity and equality with the Father (John 5:17, 14:10). Jesus’ obedience is reflected in His mission. Sonship in the Gospel of John | Theopedia
Jewish law of agency-
Someone delivering a message on behalf of another.. the agents message is equal to that of the sender. Something like that.
Same status.. so with Jesus doing this 'by the hand of the Father' .. bringing God's Kingdom in by His miracles.. saying 'I and the Father are one'
The Pharisees and Scribes would see this as saying He is EQUAL to the Father..that He is God. Because of the way they treat the law of agency
Someone delivering a message on behalf of another.. the agents message is equal to that of the sender. Something like that.
Same status.. so with Jesus doing this 'by the hand of the Father' .. bringing God's Kingdom in by His miracles.. saying 'I and the Father are one'
The Pharisees and Scribes would see this as saying He is EQUAL to the Father..that He is God. Because of the way they treat the law of agency
Now that is a great question issachar? Pay close attention because the answer which I will try and shorten but I'm sure you will understand what I'm about to say. You have at John 5:18, "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because (or why?) He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God."
Here is the key thing to remember in all of this? What did Jesus say that upset the Jews so much that they wanted to kill Him? I just gave you John 5:18, now look at John 5:17 which is what Jesus said, "But He answered them, My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working." Jesus was calling God His own Father and the Jews understood what He meant and that is one reason they accused Him of blasphemy at other places and especially at His trial at Matthew 26:59-67. Also, look what Jesus says when His parents were looking for Him when was about 12 years old at Luke 2:49, "And He said to themn, "Why is it that you were lookin for Me? Did you not know that I HAD TO BE IN MY FATHERS HOUSE?" Here again He calls God His own Father.
Now, how about at John 8:57-59, you can read that for yourself where the Jews wanted to kill Jesus again because Jesus stated that "before Abraham was born, I am." Let's go to John 10 where at vs30 Jesus literally says, "I and the Father, we are one." On what issachar? Jesus is saying He and His Father are one in nature/essence. They are also one in unity of purpose but vs30 does not mean one in that way. The reason becasue of the reaction of the Jews at John 10:31. "The Jews took up stonews again to stone Him." Why? Here again you can read the record from vs32-38 and you will notice someting, especially at vs36.
"do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, You are blaspheming, BECAUSE I SAID I AM THE SON OF GOD?" Here's the phrase "Son of God" you ask about issachar. The Jews have what is called "idioms." One of their idioms is the idiom, "son of." For example in the OT you have "Sons of the prophets, which refer to men belonging to a prophetic band. You have Sons of affliction (Proverbs 31:5) are afflicted ones. There are hundreds of these idioms. In the NT you have, "Son of perdition (John 17:12) which is the lost one. Judas was called the son of perdition.
And finally you have the "son of" which is possessing a certain nature. In other words, "son of man" clearly exhibits the use of the word "son" to show the possession of a certain nature, Numberss 23:19. this is the one that applies to Jesus Christ as the "Son of Man" and as I said possenssing a certain nature would also include the Son of God which I already explained.
Now let's look at John 19:7, "The Jews answered him, (That is Pontus Pilate), "We have a law, and by that law He/Jesus ought to die (why) because he made Himself out the Son of God." Do you see issachar how the Jews understood what Jesus was claiming when they accused Him of blasphemy for claiming to be the Son of God?
Way back at Matthew 16:13 Jesus ask His disciples, "Who do people say that I am?" Peter says, Thou art the Christ/Messiah, the Son of God." Jesus says His Father revealed this to him. Now look at the trial record at Matthew 26:63 where the high priest Caiaphas ask Jesus to swear as to His identity. "I adjure You by the living God, that You tell us whether You are the Christ/Messiah, the Son of God." In other words, the high priest is asking the one person of Jesus Christ if He is (1) the Christ/Messiah and (2) the Son of God." at Luke 22:70 Jesus says, "Yes, I am."
And to show you the significance of that phrase "Son of God" look at John 20:31 where the Apostle John gives his authroial intent. "but these have been written that you may belieive that Jesus is the (1) Christ/Messiah and (2) the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name." So you can now see the importance of what the phrase "Son of God" really means. Lastly, and this is a question to think about? Why would the Jews accuse Jesus of blasphemy for claiming to be the Son of God since the Jews themselves claim to be sons of God? The point is that Jesus Christ was the one and only Son of God in an exclusive way as John 3:16 states. The other problem is the fact that the Jews did not believe Him. Hope this all helps.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Here is the key thing to remember in all of this? What did Jesus say that upset the Jews so much that they wanted to kill Him? I just gave you John 5:18, now look at John 5:17 which is what Jesus said, "But He answered them, My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working." Jesus was calling God His own Father and the Jews understood what He meant and that is one reason they accused Him of blasphemy at other places and especially at His trial at Matthew 26:59-67. Also, look what Jesus says when His parents were looking for Him when was about 12 years old at Luke 2:49, "And He said to themn, "Why is it that you were lookin for Me? Did you not know that I HAD TO BE IN MY FATHERS HOUSE?" Here again He calls God His own Father.
Now, how about at John 8:57-59, you can read that for yourself where the Jews wanted to kill Jesus again because Jesus stated that "before Abraham was born, I am." Let's go to John 10 where at vs30 Jesus literally says, "I and the Father, we are one." On what issachar? Jesus is saying He and His Father are one in nature/essence. They are also one in unity of purpose but vs30 does not mean one in that way. The reason becasue of the reaction of the Jews at John 10:31. "The Jews took up stonews again to stone Him." Why? Here again you can read the record from vs32-38 and you will notice someting, especially at vs36.
"do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, You are blaspheming, BECAUSE I SAID I AM THE SON OF GOD?" Here's the phrase "Son of God" you ask about issachar. The Jews have what is called "idioms." One of their idioms is the idiom, "son of." For example in the OT you have "Sons of the prophets, which refer to men belonging to a prophetic band. You have Sons of affliction (Proverbs 31:5) are afflicted ones. There are hundreds of these idioms. In the NT you have, "Son of perdition (John 17:12) which is the lost one. Judas was called the son of perdition.
And finally you have the "son of" which is possessing a certain nature. In other words, "son of man" clearly exhibits the use of the word "son" to show the possession of a certain nature, Numberss 23:19. this is the one that applies to Jesus Christ as the "Son of Man" and as I said possenssing a certain nature would also include the Son of God which I already explained.
Now let's look at John 19:7, "The Jews answered him, (That is Pontus Pilate), "We have a law, and by that law He/Jesus ought to die (why) because he made Himself out the Son of God." Do you see issachar how the Jews understood what Jesus was claiming when they accused Him of blasphemy for claiming to be the Son of God?
Way back at Matthew 16:13 Jesus ask His disciples, "Who do people say that I am?" Peter says, Thou art the Christ/Messiah, the Son of God." Jesus says His Father revealed this to him. Now look at the trial record at Matthew 26:63 where the high priest Caiaphas ask Jesus to swear as to His identity. "I adjure You by the living God, that You tell us whether You are the Christ/Messiah, the Son of God." In other words, the high priest is asking the one person of Jesus Christ if He is (1) the Christ/Messiah and (2) the Son of God." at Luke 22:70 Jesus says, "Yes, I am."
And to show you the significance of that phrase "Son of God" look at John 20:31 where the Apostle John gives his authroial intent. "but these have been written that you may belieive that Jesus is the (1) Christ/Messiah and (2) the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name." So you can now see the importance of what the phrase "Son of God" really means. Lastly, and this is a question to think about? Why would the Jews accuse Jesus of blasphemy for claiming to be the Son of God since the Jews themselves claim to be sons of God? The point is that Jesus Christ was the one and only Son of God in an exclusive way as John 3:16 states. The other problem is the fact that the Jews did not believe Him. Hope this all helps.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Thanks for your question Willie-T.
Here's a scripture: "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;" This scripture seems to say that Jesus is a man, but someone might consider that it is only talking about him being a man when he died on the cross for us, although most would probably see this as meaning he is a man as he continues to be a mediator even today and forever. To bolster this last possibilty, consider the scripture: "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them." If he is the one mediator as the man, and he ever liveth to make intercession, and he is forever a priest, he seems to still be a man in a certain sense. He also seems to have always been God (the son of God), since he is from everlasting (Hebrews 7:3, - "Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.")
Here's a scripture: "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;" This scripture seems to say that Jesus is a man, but someone might consider that it is only talking about him being a man when he died on the cross for us, although most would probably see this as meaning he is a man as he continues to be a mediator even today and forever. To bolster this last possibilty, consider the scripture: "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them." If he is the one mediator as the man, and he ever liveth to make intercession, and he is forever a priest, he seems to still be a man in a certain sense. He also seems to have always been God (the son of God), since he is from everlasting (Hebrews 7:3, - "Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.")
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