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Thread: Abraham ate with Jesus.

  1. #61
    Senior Member StanJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Abraham ate with Jesus.

    Quote Originally Posted by bluto View Post
    Come on stan, must I spoon feed you everything? What is the difference between the "good news" and "gospel?" Maybe the following will help you out.

    "The term gospel is found ninety-nine times in the New American Standard Bible and ninety-two times in the NET Bible. In the Greek New Testament, gospel is the translation of the Greek noun euangelion (occurring 76 times) “good news,” and the verb euangelizo„ (occurring 54 times), meaning “to bring or announce good news.” Both words are derived from the noun angelos, “messenger.” In classical Greek, an euangelos was one who brought a message of victory or other political or personal news that caused joy. In addition, euangelizomai (the middle voice form of the verb) meant “to speak as a messenger of gladness, to proclaim good news.”Further, the noun euangelion became a technical term for the message of victory, though it was also used for a political or private message that brought joy."

    Secondly, Abraham was given the gospel clearly at Galatians 3:8. "And the Scripture, forseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the GOSPEL beforehand to Abraham, saying, "All the natuions shall be blessed in you." And guess where this happened in the Old Testament? At Genesis 12, Genesis 17, Genesis 18 as well as at Genesis 22. All chapters I gave you earlier regarding the angel of the Lord. And since you mentioned "Lexicon's" look up Strong's number 4283 to help you learn something.
    So bottom line is you actually see the difference in the Greek and don't acknowledge it? Maybe you should find somebody who's a Greek scholar and get them to explain the difference to you.
    2 Timothy 2:15 & 2 Timothy 3:16

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    Senior Member JaumeJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Abraham ate with Jesus.

    The word used in most Bibles in Galatians is Gospel, given to Abraham. The same text will read the Good News in other translations, but both are from the Greek.

    How do you spin that?
    From the Mouth of our Lord, Jesus Christ, or do you call Him Yeshua?
    Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.


  3. #63
    Senior Member StanJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Abraham ate with Jesus.

    Quote Originally Posted by JaumeJ View Post
    The word used in most Bibles in Galatians is Gospel, given to Abraham. The same text will read the Good News in other translations, but both are from the Greek.
    How do you spin that?
    It's not up to me to spin it, it's up to translators to explain it. All I know is that there are two different Greek words that are translated into two different English words which connote what they do.
    There are also three different Greek words for love and yet they are all translated in the Bible as love, so you tell me which is more accurate the Greek or the English? Most unilingual people don't realize that languages are totally different as far as colloquialisms are concerned and something in the source language is not always the same in the destination language.
    2 Timothy 2:15 & 2 Timothy 3:16

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    Senior Member notmyown's Avatar
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    Default Re: Abraham ate with Jesus.

    Quote Originally Posted by StanJ View Post
    It's not up to me to spin it, it's up to translators to explain it. All I know is that there are two different Greek words that are translated into two different English words which connote what they do.
    There are also three different Greek words for love and yet they are all translated in the Bible as love, so you tell me which is more accurate the Greek or the English? Most unilingual people don't realize that languages are totally different as far as colloquialisms are concerned and something in the source language is not always the same in the destination language.

    ahem... just so you know, the man to whom you replied is far from 'unilingual'.
    (he's fluent in English, Spanish, French, Hebrew, and forgive me if i left one or two out, Jaume )

    i daresay he understands better than most of us that idioms are difficult to translate.
    but Gospel isn't an idiom in Greek, you know. maybe this will help:


    proeuaggelizomai: to announce good news beforehand (Strongs)

    Thayer's Greek Lexicon

    STRONGS NT 4283: προευαγγελίζομαι

    προευαγγελίζομαι: 1 aorist 3 person singular προευηγγελίσατο; to announce or promise glad tidings beforehand (viz. before the event by which the promise is made good):
    Galatians 3:8.

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    Senior Member StanJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Abraham ate with Jesus.

    Quote Originally Posted by notmyown View Post
    ahem... just so you know, the man to whom you replied is far from 'unilingual'.
    (he's fluent in English, Spanish, French, Hebrew, and forgive me if i left one or two out, Jaume )

    i daresay he understands better than most of us that idioms are difficult to translate.
    but Gospel isn't an idiom in Greek, you know. maybe this will help:


    proeuaggelizomai: to announce good news beforehand (Strongs)

    Thayer's Greek Lexicon

    STRONGS NT 4283: προευαγγελίζομαι

    προευαγγελίζομαι: 1 aorist 3 person singular προευηγγελίσατο; to announce or promise glad tidings beforehand (viz. before the event by which the promise is made good):
    Galatians 3:8.
    So are you his tag team partner, wife, what?
    Is he not capable of defending himself? Besides I wasn't accusing him of anything as you seem to imply. I was stating a fact about unilingual people. I have not in lingual. Announcing good news that's not always relate to Jesus Christ but the Gospel of Jesus Christ does. The actual issue at hand was that Jesus existed before he actually did which is not factual. Jesus was born to Mary as indicated in the gospel of Matthew and he did not exist before that. He was conceived by Mary through the seed of the Holy Spirit. He was born incarnated as the Word of God.
    2 Timothy 2:15 & 2 Timothy 3:16

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    Default Re: Abraham ate with Jesus.

    Quote Originally Posted by StanJ View Post
    Well read John 1:18 and you tell me who he was speaking of and in what context?
    How about taking one more step and explain yourself.

  7. #67
    Senior Member StanJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Abraham ate with Jesus.

    Quote Originally Posted by towerwatchman View Post
    How about taking one more step and explain yourself.
    That's a cop-out and indicates one doesn't want to learn. There's an old saying that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
    2 Timothy 2:15 & 2 Timothy 3:16

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    Default Re: Abraham ate with Jesus.

    Quote Originally Posted by StanJ View Post
    So bottom line is you actually see the difference in the Greek and don't acknowledge it? Maybe you should find somebody who's a Greek scholar and get them to explain the difference to you.
    Wait a minute stan? Since your the one that claimed there are two different Greek words it is you that has to explain what those two different words mean. So go ahead and give us all here the two Greek words along with their definitions and please explain the difference between the two words? It is "NOT" up to me to find a Greek scholar because your the one making the claim they have different meanings. Go ahead "Oh wise one" I await your answer?

    IN HIM,
    bluto

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    Senior Member StanJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Abraham ate with Jesus.

    Quote Originally Posted by bluto View Post
    Wait a minute stan? Since your the one that claimed there are two different Greek words it is you that has to explain what those two different words mean. So go ahead and give us all here the two Greek words along with their definitions and please explain the difference between the two words? It is "NOT" up to me to find a Greek scholar because your the one making the claim they have different meanings. Go ahead "Oh wise one" I await your answer?
    Yes I did, and you decided you would show me what you know of the Greek except you omitted to use the Greek word that is translated good news. εὐαγγελίζω (euangelizō). You shouldn't skip through stuff in your rush to prove you're right.
    2 Timothy 2:15 & 2 Timothy 3:16

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    Senior Member StanJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Abraham ate with Jesus.

    Quote Originally Posted by bluto View Post
    Come on stan, must I spoon feed you everything? What is the difference between the "good news" and "gospel?" Maybe the following will help you out.

    "The term gospel is found ninety-nine times in the New American Standard Bible and ninety-two times in the NET Bible. In the Greek New Testament, gospel is the translation of the Greek noun euangelion (occurring 76 times) “good news,” and the verb euangelizo„ (occurring 54 times), meaning “to bring or announce good news.” Both words are derived from the noun angelos, “messenger.” In classical Greek, an euangelos was one who brought a message of victory or other political or personal news that caused joy. In addition, euangelizomai (the middle voice form of the verb) meant “to speak as a messenger of gladness, to proclaim good news.”Further, the noun euangelion became a technical term for the message of victory, though it was also used for a political or private message that brought joy."

    Secondly, Abraham was given the gospel clearly at Galatians 3:8. "And the Scripture, forseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the GOSPEL beforehand to Abraham, saying, "All the natuions shall be blessed in you." And guess where this happened in the Old Testament? At Genesis 12, Genesis 17, Genesis 18 as well as at Genesis 22. All chapters I gave you earlier regarding the angel of the Lord. And since you mentioned "Lexicon's" look up Strong's number 4283 to help you learn something.
    IN HIM,
    bluto
    BTW, if you're going to copy and paste somebody's work you should give them credit for it. I'm sure Bible.org would not be too happy for your plagiarism.
    2 Timothy 2:15 & 2 Timothy 3:16

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    Default Re: Abraham ate with Jesus.

    Quote Originally Posted by StanJ View Post
    BTW, if you're going to copy and paste somebody's work you should give them credit for it. I'm sure Bible.org would not be too happy for your plagiarism.
    Ok stan, here's the site I got my information. https://bible.org/question/what-does...%E2%80%9D-mean Your right, I did make a mistake by not giving you the site. Now, here is something else you said that I totally agree with. You said, "The actual issue at hand was that Jesus existed before he actually did which is not factual."

    As you know and as you have obviously avoided I addressed this issue in detail. You never said one word about what I posted but as is your habit changed the subject. Your view is that Jesus Christ did not preexist His incarnation as a man and I maintai Jesus Christ did preexist His incarnation, not as a man in a permanent sense like His incarnation but as the angel of the Lord who is identified as God. Can you please explain who Micah 5:2 is referring? Can you also expain Colossians 1:13-16 which states "For by Him all things were created in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created by Him and for Him." And vs17 states, "And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together."

    Who is the "Him" in the verses stan and how do you explain that He did not preexist His incarnation since He created all things BEFORE He incarnated?

    IN HIM,
    bluto

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    Senior Member notmyown's Avatar
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    Default Re: Abraham ate with Jesus.

    Quote Originally Posted by StanJ View Post
    So are you his tag team partner, wife, what?
    Is he not capable of defending himself? Besides I wasn't accusing him of anything as you seem to imply. I was stating a fact about unilingual people. I have not in lingual. Announcing good news that's not always relate to Jesus Christ but the Gospel of Jesus Christ does. The actual issue at hand was that Jesus existed before he actually did which is not factual. Jesus was born to Mary as indicated in the gospel of Matthew and he did not exist before that. He was conceived by Mary through the seed of the Holy Spirit. He was born incarnated as the Word of God.

    i'm neither his tag team partner nor his wife, but i have been blessed to have him as a friend these four years.

    of course the Lord Jesus existed before the incarnation.
    see John 1.

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    Senior Member StanJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Abraham ate with Jesus.

    Quote Originally Posted by bluto View Post
    Ok stan, here's the site I got my information. https://bible.org/question/what-does...%E2%80%9D-mean Your right, I did make a mistake by not giving you the site. Now, here is something else you said that I totally agree with. You said, "The actual issue at hand was that Jesus existed before he actually did which is not factual."

    As you know and as you have obviously avoided I addressed this issue in detail. You never said one word about what I posted but as is your habit changed the subject. Your view is that Jesus Christ did not preexist His incarnation as a man and I maintai Jesus Christ did preexist His incarnation, not as a man in a permanent sense like His incarnation but as the angel of the Lord who is identified as God. Can you please explain who Micah 5:2 is referring? Can you also expain Colossians 1:13-16 which states "For by Him all things were created in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created by Him and for Him." And vs17 states, "And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together."
    Who is the "Him" in the verses stan and how do you explain that He did not preexist His incarnation since He created all things BEFORE He incarnated?
    Thanks for clarifying.

    I didn't avoid addressing this I simply addressed what I thought was necessary in your onerous past posts. Matt 2:6 clearly shows Micah 5:2 refers to the Messiah/King of Righteousness being born in Bethlehem, so I don't know why you would think that would be problematic? Pretty sure you don't need me to explain that to you.
    John 1:14 clearly states that The Word became flesh and dwelt among us. That's what scripture says not me and you steadfastly avoid what John 1:14 says. Who is John 1:14 referring to?
    Obviously Jesus couldn't pre-exist himself if he was born at that time. Before Jesus was born, part of his hypostasis existed as The Word, not as Jesus. If you don't understand the hypostatic nature of Jesus then you should study up on it because I'm not a very good teacher when it comes to stuff like that. It was not a problem for me to comprehend.
    In Colossians 1 Paul is referring to Jesus as the incarnated Word of God and yes The Word is what created everything. John 1:3
    Paul's not referring to the human Jesus but the incarnated Word within Jesus. If you don't believe that then you better throw out the Book of John because you don't believe the Book of John, especially chapter 1. If you can show any place in the Bible that the word existed as a hypostatic being before Jesus was actually born then please go ahead and show us.
    Last edited by StanJ; 6 Days Ago at 07:26 PM.
    2 Timothy 2:15 & 2 Timothy 3:16

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    Senior Member notmyown's Avatar
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    Default Re: Abraham ate with Jesus.

    What is a theophany? What is a Christophany?

    https://www.gotquestions.org/theopha...istophany.html <---- link

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    Senior Member Sirk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Abraham ate with Jesus.

    Quote Originally Posted by StanJ View Post
    That's a cop-out and indicates one doesn't want to learn. There's an old saying that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
    Theres also a saying....those who use tired cliques are set in their ways.

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    Senior Member StanJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Abraham ate with Jesus.

    Quote Originally Posted by notmyown View Post
    i'm neither his tag team partner nor his wife, but i have been blessed to have him as a friend these four years.
    of course the Lord Jesus existed before the incarnation.
    see John 1.
    Thanks for clarifying.
    John 1 says The Word, not Jesus. John 1:14 says that The Word became flesh, i.e. Jesus. The Word has always existed but Jesus started his existence when he was born as the Bible clearly shows.
    If you study your Bible you will see that the word existed or was manifested as a human being in Genesis 14 and was called Melchizedek.
    2 Timothy 2:15 & 2 Timothy 3:16

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    Senior Member notmyown's Avatar
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    Default Re: Abraham ate with Jesus.

    Quote Originally Posted by StanJ View Post
    Thanks for clarifying.
    John 1 says The Word, not Jesus. John 1:14 says that The Word became flesh, i.e. Jesus. The Word has always existed but Jesus started his existence when he was born as the Bible clearly shows.
    If you study your Bible you will see that the word existed or was manifested as a human being in Genesis 14 and was called Melchizedek.
    The Word... The Lord Jesus Christ.... second Person of the Trinity.

    all the same, yes?

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    Default Re: Abraham ate with Jesus.

    Quote Originally Posted by StanJ View Post
    Thanks for clarifying.
    John 1 says The Word, not Jesus. John 1:14 says that The Word became flesh, i.e. Jesus. The Word has always existed but Jesus started his existence when he was born as the Bible clearly shows.
    If you study your Bible you will see that the word existed or was manifested as a human being in Genesis 14 and was called Melchizedek.
    Well stan, you keep saying John 1 says TheWord, not Jesus. Is "The Word" according to you the spoken Word of God? I'm asking for clarification as to who or what is "The Word?"

    IN HIM,
    bluto

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    Default Re: Abraham ate with Jesus.

    Quote Originally Posted by StanJ View Post
    That's a cop-out and indicates one doesn't want to learn. There's an old saying that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
    If there is to be an 'learning' then there must be a teacher. How pompous of you to designate yourself a teacher when you cannot support or explain your position. If you are unable to explain don't bother to preach.

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    Default Re: Abraham ate with Jesus.

    Quote Originally Posted by StanJ View Post
    That's a cop-out and indicates one doesn't want to learn. There's an old saying that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
    That may be stan, and I've heard that old saying many times but I don't need to open a package to know there's Limburger cheese in it?

    IN HIM,
    bluto

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