Abraham ate with Jesus.

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StanJ

Guest
You said this, "If you understood the Trinity then you would understand that The Word that was with God in the beginning was a part of God that created everything by words." No stan, I don't understand the trinity, can you please explain it to me? And your right, I do have a lot of problems especially in understanding the trinty, again, can you help me out by explaing it to me?
If you're going to play the fool then I'll treat you like a fool. Please answer the question.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,248
25,719
113
Revelation 19:13, I gave and you have said nothing about, Stan. Can you tell me Who it is that is named the Word of God that is clothed in a blood soaked robe, and why is He in a blood soaked robe? I can give you a clue, Stan: He is called the King of King and Lord of Lords, and He is also called the Lamb. Why is He called the Lamb? Do you know Who the Lamb is? These are explicit words from the revealed written Word of God. Here is another clue Stan from 1 Tim 6

I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who in his testimony before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, 14 to keep the commandment unstained and free from reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which he will display at the proper time—he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen.

Oh, look, that verse also says God gives life to all things. Do you claim that God does not have life? You never answered that. How can God give life if He does not have it Himself? It also says that He alone is immortal. Jesus claims to be alive forevermore. He is the first and the last, the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end... He says He is coming soon. Who is that, Stan? He does actually identify Himself as Jesus...
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,023
505
113
If you're going to play the fool then I'll treat you like a fool. Please answer the question.
No stan, I was not playing the "fool" I was playing devils advocate. If you look under my name you will see the letters "pda" which means devil's advocate. The reason I have been so resistant in answering is because no matter what answer I give you will still make exucuses and your mind is already made up.

However, I will answer not for you but for the benefit of others around here like maybe lurkers. Now, I mentioned to you that there is in hermanutics such a thing as implicit and implied reasoning on any give issue. This is why I ask you how you would prove to somebody that the trinity is a true or a biblical teaching.

I will apply the same type of reasoning to your question as to how I know the Word is Jesus Christ. And btw, as a side note there are many, many people out there that say Jesus Christ is not God because He never said the exact words, "I am God." This is the same kind of flawed logic your using with your question.

So, starting at John 1:1 what do we know? We know that the "Word" was "WITH" God and the "Word" was God. It cannot mean the spoken word as you claimed because why would God's spoken not be with Him and is Him? Your spoken words are with you are they not? Your words are a part of you just like Gods words are a part of Him. Secondly, God used spoken words to create everything for our benefit. God can just "think" something into existence if He wants to and does not have to use spoken words. Again, He used His spoken words for our benefit and it also shows us that His spoken words are authoritative.

Now, starting a John 1:2 the Apostle John explains further and the first word under the inpiration of the Holy Spirt it says, "He!" That literally means in the Greek "This one was in the beginning with God. Again, if it's the spoken word why does John have to repeat that Gods spoken word is with Him? Vs3, "All things came into being by that one or by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."

Vs4, In Him or In that one was life, and the life was the light of men." If you go to 1 John 1:1, "What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we behled and our hands handled, concerning THE WORD OF LIFE." Can you see or handle spoken words stan? Vs2, of 1 John 1. and the life was manifested, and we have seen and bear witness and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us--"

Please notice that at John 1: how many times the word "Him" is used and how at John 1:14 the "Him" who is identified as the "Word" became flesh. From John 1:1-14 there are some verses which are "explicit" truths and some of the verses are "implicit" or implied truths. An example of an explicit truth would be vs3, "All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."

Another example of an explicit truth would be Genesis 1:1, "God created the heavens and the earth." An example of implicit or implied truth would be, "the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are a Trinity of three persons in one Godhead. How would I go about proving the Trinity to be true even though it's an implicit/implied teaching in the Bible?

We know the Father is called God explicitly at John 6:27, Romans 1:7, Galatians 1:1 or 1 Peter 1:2. Jesus is explicitly called God at Titus 2:13, Hebrews 1:8, John 20:28, Isaiah 9:6 and Revelation 1:8,17. The Holy Spirit is identified as God at Genesis 1:2, Exodus 31:3, Romans 8:9,14, Acts 5:4 and at other places. The point is that implicit truth must not contradic t any explicit truths or other legitimate implicit truths. There is also other ways to prove the Trinity as well which I can provide.

And yes, I know your asking me to prove that the Word is Jesus Christ which I did by using the same standard to prove the Trinity. I know you stuck on Matthew 1:20 but did you ever consider the words of Jesus Christ Himself at John 5:39? "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; AND IT IS THESE THAT BEAR WITNESS OF ME." Jesus is talking about the "Tanak" or the 39 books of the Old Testament where His goings forth are from eternity. Micah 5:2, which I already quoted to you in another post. Oh yea, there is also Luke 24:25-27.

And lastly, you ask me to prove the angel of the Lord is Jesus Christ. That I will do later and it is devastating to your position. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

towerwatchman

Junior Member
Mar 16, 2017
21
1
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When you start to answer my questions I will reciprocate but as long as you answer my questions with questions I'll answer your questions with questions. I've been doing this a lot longer than you have and I know all the games that people play.
The amount of time someone has been posting their ideas on line is irrelevant to their ability to answer a simple yes or no question.
Let try it again.
In response to a prior post.
Did Jesus exist as a cognitive, free willed individual, separate from the Father?
Let me help you. It is either YES or NO.
 
S

StanJ

Guest
Revelation 19:13, I gave and you have said nothing about, Stan. Can you tell me Who it is that is named the Word of God that is clothed in a blood soaked robe, and why is He in a blood soaked robe? I can give you a clue, Stan: He is called the King of King and Lord of Lords, and He is also called the Lamb. Why is He called the Lamb? Do you know Who the Lamb is? These are explicit words from the revealed written Word of God.
I actually answered you in post 115 but apparently you either didn't read it or didn't understand it. Read that post again.
Here is another clue Stan from 1 Tim 6
I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who in his testimony before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, 14 to keep the commandment unstained and free from reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which he will display at the proper time—he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen.
Oh, look, that verse also says God gives life to all things. Do you claim that God does not have life? You never answered that. How can God give life if He does not have it Himself? It also says that He alone is immortal. Jesus claims to be alive forevermore. He is the first and the last, the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end... He says He is coming soon. Who is that, Stan? He does actually identify Himself as Jesus...
You appear really mixed up Magenta because I have not disputed that God gives life. You're off on a tangent that has nothing to do with hell or eternal damnation. I've addressed your concerns a couple of times so either you don't read my responses or you don't understand them and at this point I'm hazarding a guess to say you don't understand them. If you really want your questions answered fully then you need to start by answering questions from others fully instead of answering questions with questions. The best thing to do if you don't understand something is ask questions not accuse people.
 
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StanJ

Guest
The amount of time someone has been posting their ideas on line is irrelevant to their ability to answer a simple yes or no question.
Let try it again.
In response to a prior post.
Did Jesus exist as a cognitive, free willed individual, separate from the Father?
Let me help you. It is either YES or NO.
I completely agree but in this case it is very relevant, and as I said when you start answering my questions I'll answer yours. I've also explained to you and others that you cannot answer a simple yes or no on this site because your answer has to be a minimum of 10 characters.
 
S

StanJ

Guest
No stan, I was not playing the "fool" I was playing devils advocate. If you look under my name you will see the letters "pda" which means devil's advocate. The reason I have been so resistant in answering is because no matter what answer I give you will still make exucuses and your mind is already made up.
A Rose by Any Other Name... I don't make excuses I give you answers with scripture and ask you questions which you ignore.
However, I will answer not for you but for the benefit of others around here like maybe lurkers. Now, I mentioned to you that there is in hermanutics such a thing as implicit and implied reasoning on any give issue. This is why I ask you how you would prove to somebody that the trinity is a true or a biblical teaching.
Well you should actually learn how to spell hermeneutics if you're going to use it in a sentence. The topic was not the Trinity but despite that you tried to use it to deflect from the actual issues of whether or not Jesus pre-existed himself. The Triune nature of God is very clear to anybody who studies the Bible. You seem to have a problem understanding the Trinity and the fact that Jesus as a man had a beginning and did not pre-exist himself. By avoiding all the pointed questions I've asked you only show that you can't support your assertions or your position.
I will apply the same type of reasoning to your question as to how I know the Word is Jesus Christ. And btw, as a side note there are many, many people out there that say Jesus Christ is not God because He never said the exact words, "I am God." This is the same kind of flawed logic your using with your question.
You're not applying reasoning you're using pre-dispositional bias to interpret the word of God. That is called eisegesis. The Bible definitely shows that Jesus is God but those who Fall Away into false teaching always have a problem seeing the truth.
So, starting at John 1:1 what do we know? We know that the "Word" was "WITH" God and the "Word" was God. It cannot mean the spoken word as you claimed because why would God's spoken not be with Him and is Him? Your spoken words are with you are they not? Your words are a part of you just like Gods words are a part of Him. Secondly, God used spoken words to create everything for our benefit. God can just "think" something into existence if He wants to and does not have to use spoken words. Again, He used His spoken words for our benefit and it also shows us that His spoken words are authoritative.
I never claimed the word was the spoken word I said The Word was who spoke the universe into existence. You really need to pay attention to what I write. That's right, my words are part of me, they come from my brain which has been educated in the English language. I'd say you're on pretty untenable ground if you're trying to compare how we communicate with how God communicates. The issue is not God's spoken words the issue is you making false assertions that Jesus was the word before Jesus was born. Try sticking to the issues rather than equivocate about everything else.
Now, starting a John 1:2 the Apostle John explains further and the first word under the inpiration of the Holy Spirt it says, "He!" That literally means in the Greek "This one was in the beginning with God. Again, if it's the spoken word why does John have to repeat that Gods spoken word is with Him? Vs3, "All things came into being by that one or by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."
I wouldn't worry about explaining John 1 to me, I'd worry more about you actually understanding what's being said here and not insinuating your own opinion into the words. Again I never said the word was the spoken word I said the word spoke the universe into existence. Please pay attention.
Vs4, In Him or In that one was life, and the life was the light of men." If you go to 1 John 1:1, "What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we behled and our hands handled, concerning THE WORD OF LIFE." Can you see or handle spoken words stan? Vs2, of 1 John 1. and the life was manifested, and we have seen and bear witness and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us--"
John 1:4 has nothing to do with 1John 1:1 other than they are both part of the Bible but FYI they were not written bye the same author. That of course is a matter for another thread and off-topic. Regardless, there is nothing in 1st John 1 that states in any way, shape or form, that The Word who existed before Jesus was born, was Jesus.
Please notice that at John 1: how many times the word "Him" is used and how at John 1:14 the "Him" who is identified as the "Word" became flesh. From John 1:1-14 there are some verses which are "explicit" truths and some of the verses are "implicit" or implied truths. An example of an explicit truth would be vs3, "All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."
That's absolutely correct and when The Word became flesh he became Jesus. Before that he was The Word.
The issue is not v3, the issue is how you relate to verse 1 by falsely asserting that verse 1 implies The Word was Jesus before Jesus existed, which it doesn't. John 1:1 says exactly what it means and does not imply or convey anything other than what it says. It brings into focus Genesis 1 from the perspective of who God was and is, in the light of the New Covenant.
Another example of an explicit truth would be Genesis 1:1, "God created the heavens and the earth." An example of implicit or implied truth would be, "the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are a Trinity of three persons in one Godhead. How would I go about proving the Trinity to be true even though it's an implicit/implied teaching in the Bible?
Actually in the Trinity is explicitly taught in the Bible even if the word Trinity is not there. You should know this if your claim about studying the Bible for all these years is true. If you don't really see the evidence of the trinity in the Bible then I suggest you go to the following link; https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/bowman_robert/trinity/trinity.cfm
Again the Trinity is not the issue here and rather than try to obfuscate and equivocate about the truth, try to stay on topic.
And yes, I know your asking me to prove that the Word is Jesus Christ which I did by using the same standard to prove the Trinity. I know you stuck on Matthew 1:20 but did you ever consider the words of Jesus Christ Himself at John 5:39? "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; AND IT IS THESE THAT BEAR WITNESS OF ME." Jesus is talking about the "Tanak" or the 39 books of the Old Testament where His goings forth are from eternity. Micah 5:2, which I already quoted to you in another post. Oh yea, there is also Luke 24:25-27.
There's a big difference between your analogies and the truth. The doctrine of the Trinity is explicitly taught in the Bible, no ifs ands or buts, unless of course you're Unitarian. The Bible explicitly says that The Word was with God in the beginning and was God and it also says that Jesus Christ was born and is the only begotten son of God. Those are explicit truths. What you're trying to sell is equivocation and a way to muddy the waters in terms of what the Bible does say. No where does the bible implicitly or otherwise state that before Jesus was born he was The Word. If you don't see the demarcation in the scripture then I suggest you don't ever try to install a telephone.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,023
505
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Look how "petty" you are stan? You chid me for mispelling "hermanewtics" and what did you do? "John 1:4 has nothing to do with 1John 1:1 other than they are both part of the Bible but FYI they were not written bye the same author."

You can't even spell a two letter word, "by," you typed "BYE" which means btw, "the privilege, granted a contestant in a tournament with," I'll be back. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
op
 
Mar 23, 2017
84
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The Gospel of Jesus the Christ

The gospel of Jesus the Christ is the good news.
The good news of grace and truth made known to this world through
the Holy Ghost by the name above all names Jesus the Christ the first born of God
the Son of the living God the son of man given birth by woman to which came from man.

For it is written in the Holy Bible...
the scriptures of truth inspired by God.

In the beginning was the Word
and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him;
and without him was not any thing made that was made.

He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God,

Which were born of God.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;
for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin,
because he is born of God.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not;
but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself,
and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Have you received the Word?

If you will receive the Word
God will give you power to become a son of God.
And if you become a son of God by that power
You will become born of God.

And if you become born of God
You will cease from doing sin.

If we say we have sin and say we are born of God
then we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

When Christians tell you they still sin and are born of God...
they are liars. They are not born of God.

When preachers tell you
that even though you are born of God you will still sin....
they are liars. You are not born of God.

For it is written...

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;
for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin,
because he is born of God.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not;
but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself,
and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Satan never wants you to believe or know
that by grace through faith in Jesus Christ
you can become born of God and never
commit another sin.

The reason Christians do not want to believe they can
live without committing sin is because they love there sins
more than God.

That is what it is all about.

The love of sin vs the love of God.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,023
505
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Ok quicksand, let's see what we have here? It seems to me that you are contending that born again believers do not commit sin, period. I also think or should I say "know" that you basing your position on 1 John 1:8-10 and 1 John 2:1-3. If I'm wrong on this please correct me.

Now, are you seriolusly contending that as a born again believer you have never committed a sin in thought, word or deed? You also said this: "The reason Christians do not want to believe they can
live without committing sin is because they love there sins
more than God." This statement of yours is not true. As a matter of fact if a born again believer does not "HATE" sin then there is something wrong with their Christianity.

Please tell me why the Apostle Paul said at Romans 7:23-25, "but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind, and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my menbers. vs24, Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? Vs25, "Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am werving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin." What do you think the Apostle Paul (who is already a born again believer) is telling us?

And what about the Apostle Peter at Galatians 2:14? Was not Peter a born again believer? Since that is true you have Paul confronting Peter for the sin of hypocrisy. Here, read it for yourself. "But when I say that they were not straighforward about the the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas/Peter in the presence of all. If you, being a Jew live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like the Jews?"

Finally, the point of 1 John is the fact that believers do not make a "practice" of sin in your lives. Why do you think at 1 John 2:1 it says, "My little children (these are belevers) I am writing these things to yo uthat you may not sin, And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."

So rather than denying sin, believers are asked to acknowledge it freely. When we admit our sin, we find, (paradoxically), that God removes it. Confess implies we must acknowledge that our sin is sin and admit that we committed it. So once we confess sin, the character of God guarantees forgiveness. He is a righteous God who will forgive our sins because the death of Christ has already paid the penalty for them.

And as a personal note to you. To be honest I don't know how you live with yourself by convincing yourself that you don't sin? A believer does not or should not take sin lightly. It should bother them because it breaks up your fellowship with God and yet He is more than happy to restore you by simply admitting the sin and moving on with spreading the gospel/good news to others. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
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StanJ

Guest
Look how "petty" you are stan? You chid me for mispelling "hermanewtics" and what did you do? "John 1:4 has nothing to do with 1John 1:1 other than they are both part of the Bible but FYI they were not written bye the same author."
You can't even spell a two letter word, "by," you typed "BYE" which means btw, "the privilege, granted a contestant in a tournament with," I'll be back.
And this represents just how petty and childish you are when it comes to posts. Twice now you have misspelled hermeneutics but I wouldn't be surprised if you actually don't know what the word means.
 
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StanJ

Guest
Satan never wants you to believe or know
that by grace through faith in Jesus Christ
you can become born of God and never
commit another sin.
The reason Christians do not want to believe they can
live without committing sin is because they love there sins
more than God.
1 John 1:7,9 and 2:1-2 disagree with your assertions here, plus this is not the topic of this thread. John talks about lifestyles, not individual sin. ALL have sinned and ALL fall short. FYI, 1 John is written to BELIEVERS.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,023
505
113
WHERE actually and exactly does the scripture say "Jesus is the Angel of the Lord".
How exactly could Jesus be the angel of the Lord if you believe Hebrews 2:7 & 9?
Apparently your understanding of the Bible contradicts itself when we all know that the Bible does not contradict itself.
Now stan it's time to address this question of yours? The following is what Hebrews 6:13,14 states, "For when God made the promise to Abraham, since He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself, vs14, saying, I will surely bless you, and I will surely multiply you." So stan, where in the Old Testament do you suppose God swore this oath to Abraham?

How about at Genesis 22 starting at vs10. "And Abraham stretched out his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. vs11, But the angel the angel of the Lord called out to him from heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham!" And he said, Here I am." vs12, And he said, Do not stretch out your hand against the lad, and do nothing to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me." vs13, Then Abraham raised his eyes and looked and behold, behind him a ram caught in the thicket by his horns; and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the place of his son."

Vs14, "And Abraham called the name of that place The Lord Will Provide, as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it will be provided." Vs15, Then the angel of the Lord called to Abraham a second time from heaven, vs16, and said, "By Myself I hav sworn, declares the Lord, because you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your only son, vs17, indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens, and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your seed shall possess the gate of their enemies. Vs18, And in your seed all the nations of th earth shall be blessed, (why stan?) because you have obeyed My voice."

So tell us all here stan how it is possible for God to swear the oath to Abraham according to the writer of Hebrews but here in Genesis 22 it is the angel of the Lord who swore the oath? How do you reconcile what appears to be a contradiction? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
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StanJ

Guest
Now stan it's time to address this question of yours? The following is what Hebrews 6:13,14 states, "For when God made the promise to Abraham, since He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself, vs14, saying, I will surely bless you, and I will surely multiply you." So stan, where in the Old Testament do you suppose God swore this oath to Abraham?

How about at Genesis 22 starting at vs10. "And Abraham stretched out his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. vs11, But the angel the angel of the Lord called out to him from heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham!" And he said, Here I am." vs12, And he said, Do not stretch out your hand against the lad, and do nothing to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me." vs13, Then Abraham raised his eyes and looked and behold, behind him a ram caught in the thicket by his horns; and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the place of his son."

Vs14, "And Abraham called the name of that place The Lord Will Provide, as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it will be provided." Vs15, Then the angel of the Lord called to Abraham a second time from heaven, vs16, and said, "By Myself I hav sworn, declares the Lord, because you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your only son, vs17, indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens, and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your seed shall possess the gate of their enemies. Vs18, And in your seed all the nations of th earth shall be blessed, (why stan?) because you have obeyed My voice."

So tell us all here stan how it is possible for God to swear the oath to Abraham according to the writer of Hebrews but here in Genesis 22 it is the angel of the Lord who swore the oath? How do you reconcile what appears to be a contradiction? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
So bottom line is there is no place that you can show exactly that says The Angel of the Lord is Jesus, which is exactly what I thought. You seem to think verboseness is your friend, to which I reply, Much Ado About Nothing.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,023
505
113
Didn't you learn anything yesterday when I clearly explained to you about teachings in the Bible can either be "Explicit" which means something that is fully and clearly expressed or "Implicit" truth that is implied by using priciples that are impliit truths from the Bible.

I also told you yesterday thathe Trinity teaching is "NOT" Explicitly taught in the Bible, It is rather derived from various implict truths from the Bible. Of course, you don't pay attention because you don't know your Bible. To ask such a immature question like your a six year old, "Where can you show me ERXACTLY where the Bible says The Angel of the Lord is Jesus?"

That's like me saying to you that I can prove that Jesus Christ is a loaf of bread? Afterall, He did claim to be the bread of life at John 6:48. So I'm going to ask you again? Since God swore the oath at Hebrews 6:13,14 and at Genesis 22 it says the angel of the Lord swore the oath, who is the angel of the Lord? First of all God would not have Abraham sacrifice his sone to an angel. Secondly, who is the physical manifestation of God the Father since according to Jesus Christ God the Father cannot be seen. John 5:37 and John 6:46.

Thirdly, the Hebrew word for angel is "malak" and that word can mean a real angel but it can also mean simply messenger, which depends on how the word is used in context. John the Baptist is called an angel who clears the way of the Lord at Malachi 3:1 but John obviously is a human being and not an angel.

Fourthly, why did the angel of the Lord call out from heaven to Abraham two times when the Lord God could have called out from heaven Himself like He did at Exodus 20:22 or Mark 1:11? But guess what stan? There is one more reason the angel of the Lord is not an actual angel and that he is indeed the preincarnate Jesus Christ? I'll let you at the very least let you think about that one. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
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StanJ

Guest
Didn't you learn anything yesterday when I clearly explained to you about teachings in the Bible can either be "Explicit" which means something that is fully and clearly expressed or "Implicit" truth that is implied by using priciples that are impliit truths from the Bible.

I also told you yesterday thathe Trinity teaching is "NOT" Explicitly taught in the Bible, It is rather derived from various implict truths from the Bible. Of course, you don't pay attention because you don't know your Bible. To ask such a immature question like your a six year old, "Where can you show me ERXACTLY where the Bible says The Angel of the Lord is Jesus?"

That's like me saying to you that I can prove that Jesus Christ is a loaf of bread? Afterall, He did claim to be the bread of life at John 6:48. So I'm going to ask you again? Since God swore the oath at Hebrews 6:13,14 and at Genesis 22 it says the angel of the Lord swore the oath, who is the angel of the Lord? First of all God would not have Abraham sacrifice his sone to an angel. Secondly, who is the physical manifestation of God the Father since according to Jesus Christ God the Father cannot be seen. John 5:37 and John 6:46.

Thirdly, the Hebrew word for angel is "malak" and that word can mean a real angel but it can also mean simply messenger, which depends on how the word is used in context. John the Baptist is called an angel who clears the way of the Lord at Malachi 3:1 but John obviously is a human being and not an angel.

Fourthly, why did the angel of the Lord call out from heaven to Abraham two times when the Lord God could have called out from heaven Himself like He did at Exodus 20:22 or Mark 1:11? But guess what stan? There is one more reason the angel of the Lord is not an actual angel and that he is indeed the preincarnate Jesus Christ? I'll let you at the very least let you think about that one. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Well I learned quite some time ago that you don't listen to anything you're told and that you are so inculcated into your beliefs That You Don't See truth when it is staring straight in the face.
I also learned that you don't know much about hermeneutics.
Every few days you're searching about the Trinity not being explicit teaching and of course as you have done true you ignore everything you're told.
I dealt with the angel of the Lord issues that's typical you don't listen.
All and all that he's become quite evident that you are incapable of receiving any kind of teaching or trees so I see no reason to continue to waste my time showing you things you are incapable of seeing.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
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Well I learned quite some time ago that you don't listen to anything you're told and that you are so inculcated into your beliefs That You Don't See truth when it is staring straight in the face.
I also learned that you don't know much about hermeneutics.
Every few days you're searching about the Trinity not being explicit teaching and of course as you have done true you ignore everything you're told.
I dealt with the angel of the Lord issues that's typical you don't listen.
All and all that he's become quite evident that you are incapable of receiving any kind of teaching or trees so I see no reason to continue to waste my time showing you things you are incapable of seeing.
Oh please stan, get over yourself! You cannot show me one verse in the Bible that God is triune or a trinity. And as I stated, the doctrine of the Trinity is an implicit truth built on explicit truths found in the Old and New Testaments. In fact you quoted the BLB on this issue and Robert Bowman wrote the article. Here is what he said? What does that very first sentence say stan?

"The first is to interpret the implicit in light of the explicit. That is, texts that explicitly state that such-and-such is true are to govern our understanding of passages that do not address the issue directly. For example, many passages of the Bible state explicitly that God is omniscient, that is, that he knows all things, including the thoughts of men and all future events (1 Sam. 16:7; 1 Chron. 28:9, 17; Job 37:16; Psa. 139:1-4; Isa. 41:22-23; 42:9; 44:7; Jer. 17:10a). These texts must govern our understanding of passages which might seem to imply, but which do not assert, that God did not know something (e.g., Gen. 3:9-13; 4:9; 18:9, 20-21)."

And btw, I happen to know Robert Bowman from the early 1980's when he and many others of us use to stand with signs at wof conventions like Kenneth Copelan and others for their heretical teachings with statements like the following, "You don't have a god in you, you are one." Or Jesus Christ went to hell and was tortured down there by Satan and his minions until God the Father bellowed out, "Let Him be." And this is where Jesus was born again.

And btw, where did you ever deal with the angel of the Lord issues? Finally, remember how I kept telling you that you keep contradicting yourself? "The truth is always solid, but the lie exposes itself through contradictions." You sir are walking contradiction because your Biblically ignorant. The "Word" is not Jesus, ugh. :eek: Buy!

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
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