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Thread: Predestination Versus Freewill

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    Default Re: Predestination Versus Freewill

    The final conclusion if one believes the 5 point TULIP Calvinist doctrine is that God created some people to be saved and they have no say in the matter and He created other people to Burn for eternity in the Lake of Fire, people who have absolutely no option of being saved...

    I thank God i am no Calvinist..
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    Default Re: Predestination Versus Freewill

    Reading the 5 point TULIP, I get the feeling that calvinists don't understand how time and eternity interact.
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    Truth is available only to those who have the courage to question whatever they think they know.

    It's hard to learn anything when you always feel the need to be the expert.

    Mark 7:34 “Ephphatha,” that is, “Be opened.”

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    Default Re: Predestination Versus Freewill

    Quote Originally Posted by RickyZ View Post
    Reading the 5 point TULIP, I get the feeling that calvinists don't understand how time and eternity interact.
    Yes i believe the same...

    God is not bound by Universe space or time.. He created Universe space and time and this it is not His abode or time.. God is outside our space and time and can see all out times from His abode and Knows the beginning and the end of it all.. from His foreknowledge of our space and times He predestines those who He foreknew would embrace His will to be conformed to the likeness of Jesus..

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    Default Re: Predestination Versus Freewill

    Of course we all wonder why one person will come to God and another will not, however I back away from predestination because it has the ultimate "I am better then you" quality to it. Predestination(the way it is being used) is the ultimate act of pride and arrogance, God picked me simply because I am better then you(who God did not pick). To blow your own horn when you worked hard and did well is not really good, how much worse to blow your own horn when you did not even do anything? The ultimate arrogance has got to be, I am better then you simply because God made me better...I really do not see how a Christian can have that attitude?

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    Default Re: Predestination Versus Freewill

    If a person wants to choose the human will verse God will, than God will give that person enough rope to eat all the slop that person wants.

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    Default Re: Predestination Versus Freewill

    Quote Originally Posted by samuel23 View Post
    Of course we all wonder why one person will come to God and another will not, however I back away from predestination because it has the ultimate "I am better then you" quality to it. Predestination(the way it is being used) is the ultimate act of pride and arrogance, God picked me simply because I am better then you(who God did not pick). To blow your own horn when you worked hard and did well is not really good, how much worse to blow your own horn when you did not even do anything? The ultimate arrogance has got to be, I am better then you simply because God made me better...I really do not see how a Christian can have that attitude?
    Your questioning Gods Sovereignty and putting Him in a box.

    That is going to be the heart/crux of any response you get from a Calvinist. When they are the very ones who have God so small, they can put him in the Sovereignty box.

    All the other attributes of God are unknown to them. His Justice/righteousness is the attribute that they really need to eliminate or overlook.

    If their theory of predestination is correct.............It negates the Justice/righteousness of God that is portrayed to us in the Word.

    New American Standard Bible
    "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."


    New International Version
    For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed--a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."

    New American Standard Bible
    Say among the nations, "The LORD reigns; Indeed, the world is firmly established, it will not be moved; He will judge the peoples with equity."


    So, if predestination is God choosing some for hell. He would be unjust, because that sort of justice goes against the Justice of God in the Word.


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    Default Re: Predestination Versus Freewill

    Did you read my post, I am not for predestination.
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    Default Re: Predestination Versus Freewill

    Quote Originally Posted by samuel23 View Post
    Of course we all wonder why one person will come to God and another will not,
    Pride of life: their unrighteousness suppresses the truth. This is Biblical (see Romans 1)


    Embrace the Grace and Rejoice in His Everlasting Mercy and Love

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    Default Re: Predestination Versus Freewill

    Quote Originally Posted by samuel23 View Post
    Did you read my post, I am not for predestination.
    I did, And know your not for the calvinists version of predestination. Read past the first sentence of my post.

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    Default Re: Predestination Versus Freewill

    Quote Originally Posted by wsblind View Post
    I did, And know your not for the calvinists version of predestination. Read past the first sentence of my post.
    I did a double-take the first time I read your post as well but you're right, you have to read past it and bring it all together.
    2 Timothy 2:15 & 2 Timothy 3:16

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    Default Re: Predestination Versus Freewill

    Quote Originally Posted by Sully View Post
    Neither Calvinist nor Arminianist. I think both camps hold some truth, but not the whole truth imo.
    I agree. Instead of being Calvinist or Arminianist, I'm from Jesus.
    The Eternal predestined us on the basis of what we have become to the extent that He has dealt with each of us (after all, we live in Him, move and exist - Acts 17: 25-28).
    "Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth." (Hosea 6.3).

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    Default Re: Predestination Versus Freewill

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt23 View Post
    Part 3: If God's omnipotence means He has control over everything, then He also has control over our wills as well and therefore when a person commits murder or rape we are then subscribing murder and rape as an action of God indirectly.
    Some people say we do not have free will,so do they mean we do not have free will concerning salvation,or do they mean we do not have free will at all,for if we do not have free will concerning our salvation,then God would be evil for condemning people that have no choice but to be lost,with no control of their own,in other words it would not be their fault,and they did not do anything wrong compared to other people,for all are sinners,and come short of the glory of God,and God is no respecter of persons,and there is no difference between people,and if they do not have free will concerning those saved,then God's kingdom is not love,and if we do not have free will in anything,then why would people be judged for they would have no will of their own to make decisions,but could not help what they do,and will act like that without their control.

    1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
    1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

    Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

    God wants all people to be saved,and anybody that chooses that salvation can be saved,so we have free will concerning salvation,and if we are judged for our sins,then we have free will to make choices.

    God may be omnipotent,but He has to allow us to have free will,for He is not evil,and His kingdom is love.

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