KING DAVID

Desertsrose · Mar 19, 2017

Hi Stunned,

This is where I do worry about OSAS for that very reason you mentioned. I have a friend who believes in OSAS and by her actions, you'd really have to wonder if she was saved to begin with.

I worry about her because many who believe this way, don't think it's possible to not be saved no matter what.

My thoughts are that God knows those who are truly His. On the other end, we don't. We can know that if we are in Christ we're sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.

But the person who is living a life of sin and believes that they're saved because of OSAS, it's very difficult to convince them that they might not even be saved. I like the word assurance of salvation over the OSAS terminology. Assurance of salvation is the more biblical term and I think it has more meaning.

Stunnedbygrace · Mar 19, 2017

Desertsrose said:

I understand what you're saying. But even here, is your worry over her osas belief or is your worry over seeing what appears to be no growth in virtue? In other words, haven't you met people who are osas who abide and grow in humility and meekness and love? And in that case, you don't worry about their osas belief?

Magenta · Mar 19, 2017

Stunnedbygrace said:

David worried whether he had to or not, though it seems to me he had valid reasons to worry. We on the other hand have the assurance of salvation (1 John 5:11-13; John 3:16; Romans 10:9; John 10:28-29) and the seal of the Holy Spirit as per Scripture. Under the law, this assurance and seal was not in place; nobody was justified before God or saved by the law, and God's Spirit moved through unbelievers, and even animals, to act. It is also possible to be saved and doubt it.

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13

Now it is God who establishes both us and you in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. 2 cor 1:21-22

“You are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwell-s in you,” Romans 8:9a

Conversely, Paul goes on to say, “If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him” v. 9b

Incredibly, the body of every true Christian is actually “a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in [him]”1 Cor. 6:19

“The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ” Romans 8:16–17

samuel23 · Mar 19, 2017

dcon, I did not judge your motive...that is why I said why? From your previous posts and your understanding about the story of Saul, it was easy to deduct that you have read all the story of how God chose Saul to be king. Deductive reasoning, I was sure from the evidence that you knew the story of how God chose Saul to be the leader of Israel. So when you said that the people chose Saul I had to call it for what it was.

dcontroversal · Mar 19, 2017

samuel23 said:

It does not alleviate that the root of a human king in Israel was the direct result of the people desiring to be like the nations around them and in doing so rejected GOD and the theocracy it was always meant to be.....

The people wanted a human KING, told Samuel they wanted a HUMAN KING (he took it to heart they were rejecting him and God corrected him and said NO they were rejecting God) and even though God chose Saul the root cause was the people's desire to have a man over God....

That is the point I was making............

Sorry about the confusion, heat and mouthy comments!

Stunnedbygrace · Mar 19, 2017

Can't rep you dc. I cry when I see my brothers humbling themselves before God and each other. I just really bawl man. I cheer them on and bawl at the same time. It really lifts me.

Stunnedbygrace · Mar 19, 2017

Magenta said:

David worried whether he had to or not, though it seems to me he had valid reasons to worry. We on the other hand have the assurance of salvation (1 John 5:11-13; John 3:16; Romans 10:9; John 10:28-29) and the seal of the Holy Spirit as per Scripture. Under the law, this assurance and seal was not in place; nobody was justified before God or saved by the law, and God's Spirit moved through unbelievers, and even animals, to act. It is also possible to be saved and doubt it.

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13

Now it is God who establishes both us and you in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. 2 cor 1:21-22

“You are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwell-s in you,” Romans 8:9a

Conversely, Paul goes on to say, “If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him” v. 9b

Incredibly, the body of every true Christian is actually “a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in [him]”1 Cor. 6:19

“The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ” Romans 8:16–17

If they had no assurance of salvation, how could Job say that he knew his eyes would see God?

dcontroversal · Mar 19, 2017

Stunnedbygrace said:

Well, I am not above apology when it is warranted for sure.....the problem with text on a page is we can easily read in attitude and respond in kind....motive is also easily judged without knowing all the facts.....and we all have had bad days where we take it out on people around us....anyway......thanks.....

Magenta · Mar 19, 2017

Stunnedbygrace said:

Nobody was justified or saved by the law. Scripture says this. Their faith was counted as righteousness. Job had faith, which is why he was served up to Satan in the first place. In fact, Job is widely accepted as the oldest book in the Bible, and the resurrection is prefigured there, while people will say that the resurrection is a newer concept in theology. Also, nobody without faith would affirm a future meting with God, but they will meet Him nonetheless

Just random thoughts

Stunnedbygrace · Mar 19, 2017

Magenta said:

But neither would someone who had no assurance of salvation say it either. But I gathered you were saying they had no assurance because not sealed and so that is why david prayed for God not to take His Spirit from him.

Stunnedbygrace · Mar 19, 2017

samuel23 said:

Brother, it is judging motive if you say someone purposefully is twisting or being deceitful. That they know they are doing it and doing it on purpose. You reiterated more than once that he was doing it on purpose. You said if you didn't call him on it, he would keep doing it. You were judging that he had a bad motive.

Stunnedbygrace · Mar 19, 2017

This is not the way we are told to deal with each other. Why is I'm sorry the hardest two words to pronounce in the english language?

Desertsrose · Mar 19, 2017

Magenta said:

Magenta and Stunned you're making my brain work overtime. Ha! Which is good! I'm enjoying the questions and answers. Here's a few thoughts to ponder if you so desire.

Can a person with the faith of Abraham, not have the Spirit of God's regeneration. Isn't it the Spirit that regenerates?

Abraham was used as an example for how we are born-again today in Romans and in Galatians.

A born-again experience happens when we're regenerated by the Spirit. OT saints were not spiritually dead, they were spiritually alive. How does that happen? Doesn't that happen when the Spirit comes and indwells the believer by faith?

These believers looked forward to the prophesied Messiah. They believed in Messiah even though He had not showed up in their lifetime. They had the same faith that we have today. The Holy Spirit had not been poured out on the OT saints as He was at Pentecost.

But, does that mean that they didn't have some type of infilling of the Spirit? I don't see how it could happen that they are regenerated without the Holy Spirit coming to live within.

I always consider that God is the same today, yesterday and forever when these types of questions are brought up. I always look for how God did what He did in the NT in the Old as well. Many times it's in the types and shadows. I haven't given this a lot of thought, but wanted to drop my first thoughts on you to consider.

Stunnedbygrace · Mar 19, 2017

This made me think about the religious who thought they were safe because of whose children they were, but Jesus said they weren't Abraham's children.

It seems to me we do something similar in our doctrine. I can't quite explain what I see though.

Magenta · Mar 19, 2017

Desertsrose said:

Yes, for sure the Spirit regenerates, but the way I understood the question was, are we sealed in a way they were not before Jesus? Jesus said in John 14:17 that we would have something the world does not (even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.). See Judges 15:14; 1 Chronicles 12:18; Psalm 51:11; Ezekiel 11:5 for some examples of how the Spirit came and went. in OT times. Although I do not necessarily accept David saying. please don't go, to meaning God necessarily would, just as Paul saying he would rather one thing over another is not a way to set doctrine as if his preference were a reality when it is not given as such.Also, we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace. In OT times, when His is blood was not yet shed... compared to now... would that not change how things are done and/or understood?

fredoheaven · Mar 19, 2017

Desertsrose said:

Hi Stunned,

This is where I do worry about OSAS for that very reason you mentioned. I have a friend who believes in OSAS and by her actions, you'd really have to wonder if she was saved to begin with.

I worry about her because many who believe this way, don't think it's possible to not be saved no matter what.

My thoughts are that God knows those who are truly His. On the other end, we don't. We can know that if we are in Christ we're sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.

But the person who is living a life of sin and believes that they're saved because of OSAS, it's very difficult to convince them that they might not even be saved. I like the word assurance of salvation over the OSAS terminology. Assurance of salvation is the more biblical term and I think it has more meaning.

Hi,

Assurance of Salvation! Let me give you a good hug here!

God bless...

Utah · Mar 19, 2017

p_rehbein said:

WHY?

Why is Jesus known as our Intercessor? IF OSAS it truth, of what need do we have for an Intercessor continually at the Throne of God? What purpose would He serve?

Hebrews 7:22) By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
23 .) And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
24 .) But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
25 .) Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

1 John
2:1 .) My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 .) And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 .) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 .) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 .) But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 .) He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
7 .) Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
8 .) Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

Still working to earn your salvation, eh Bama?

JesusRules1 · Mar 19, 2017

Old Testament,New Testament,whether king David,or Peter,everyone has to repent of their sins,and have the blood applied to deal with their sins,and if they have any sins on their record not repented then the blood cannot deal with that sin,and they have sin on their record.To hold unto a sin and not give it up is to have sin on their record.

King David is no example of OSAS for we can always be forgiven for our sins,but king David gave up sins,and had his sins covered by the blood of animals,before he departed,like anybody can do,and when Jesus shed His blood then the Old Testament saints sins were washed away completely.

A great person of God that we know is saved,but erred a lot is no example of OSAS,for we all can have our sins forgiven,but they were saved because they gave up the sins,and the blood dealt with their sins,before they departed this earth.

The OSAS should not say sin does not affect our relationship with God,and Christ,for it does,but if they want a defense they should say,that even though we may sin,and mess up,we will give up the sins,and the blood will deal with our sins,before we depart from this earth,for God will see to it.

Anybody whether they claim Christ or not,if they depart from this earth holding unto a sin they will not dwell with Jesus,so the best defense is to say,we will give up all sins,and not want them,before we depart from this earth,because all the messing up on earth can be corrected,but hold unto a sin and depart the earth,cannot be corrected.

p_rehbein · Mar 20, 2017

Solomon prayed for the forgiveness of God's people who had sinned against Him.

2 Chronicles 6:35) Then hear thou from the heavens their prayer and their supplication, and maintain their cause.
36 .) If they sin against thee, (for there is no man which sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them over before their enemies, and they carry them away captives unto a land far off or near;
37 .) Yet if they bethink themselves in the land whither they are carried captive, and turn and pray unto thee in the land of their captivity, saying, We have sinned, we have done amiss, and have dealt wickedly;
38 .) If they return to thee with all their heart and with all their soul in the land of their captivity, whither they have carried them captives, and pray toward their land, which thou gavest unto their fathers, and toward the city which thou hast chosen, and toward the house which I have built for thy name:
39 .) Then hear thou from the heavens, even from thy dwelling place, their prayer and their supplications, and maintain their cause, and forgive thy people which have sinned against thee.
40 .) Now, my God, let, I beseech thee, thine eyes be open, and let thine ears be attent unto the prayer that is made in this place.
41 .) Now therefore arise, O LORD God, into thy resting place, thou, and the ark of thy strength: let thy priests, O LORD God, be clothed with salvation, and let thy saints rejoice in goodness.
42 .) O LORD God, turn not away the face of thine anointed: remember the mercies of David thy servant.

And God answered Solomon, and told him what He would do if His people repented, AND what He would do if Solomon turned from Him and continued in sin:

Chapter 7:12) And the LORD appeared to Solomon by night, and said unto him, I have heard thy prayer, and have chosen this place to myself for an house of sacrifice.
13 .) If I shut up heaven that there be no rain, or if I command the locusts to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among my people;

14 .) If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

15 .) Now mine eyes shall be open, and mine ears attent unto the prayer that is made in this place.
16 .) For now have I chosen and sanctified this house, that my name may be there for ever: and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually.

17 .) And as for thee, if thou wilt walk before me, as David thy father walked, and do according to all that I have commanded thee, and shalt observe my statutes and my judgments;
18 .) Then will I stablish the throne of thy kingdom, according as I have covenanted with David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man to be ruler in Israel.

19 .) But if ye turn away, and forsake my statutes and my commandments, which I have set before you, and shall go and serve other gods, and worship them;
20 .) Then will I pluck them up by the roots out of my land which I have given them; and this house, which I have sanctified for my name, will I cast out of my sight, and will make it to be a proverb and a byword among all nations.

21 .) And this house, which is high, shall be an astonishment to every one that passeth by it; so that he shall say, Why hath the LORD done thus unto this land, and unto this house?
22 .) And it shall be answered, Because they forsook the LORD God of their fathers, which brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, and laid hold on other gods, and worshipped them, and served them: therefore hath he brought all this evil upon them.

p_rehbein · Mar 20, 2017

Jonah prayed for forgiveness.......

Jonah
2

1 .) Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,
2 .) And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.
3 .) For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me.
4 .) Then I said, I am cast out of thy sight; yet I will look again toward thy holy temple.
5 .) The waters compassed me about, even to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head.
6 .) I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.
7 .) When my soul fainted within me I remembered the LORD: and my prayer came in unto thee, into thine holy temple.
8 .) They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy.
9 .) But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay that that I have vowed. Salvation is of the LORD.
10 .) And the LORD spake unto the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land.

And when he had done what God had commanded him to do, the people of Nineveh repented and turned to Gods, and He spared them, and forgave them......

Chapter 3:6) For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes.
7 .) And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water:
8 .) But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands.
9 .) Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
10 .) And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

......but Jonah did not wish God to extend His mercy towards Nineveh.......

Jonah
4

1 .) But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was very angry.
2 .) And he prayed unto the LORD, and said, I pray thee, O LORD, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.
3 .) Therefore now, O LORD, take, I beseech thee, my life from me; for it is better for me to die than to live.

......however, God showed that His mercy extends to ALL who repent, and ask for forgiveness......

verse 11) And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?

KING DAVID

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member