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Thread: KING DAVID

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    Default Re: KING DAVID

    We should also consider the Story of Abimelech:

    Genesis
    20



    1 .) And Abraham journeyed from thence toward the south country, and dwelled between Kadesh and Shur, and sojourned in Gerar.
    2 .) And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, She is my sister: and Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah.
    3 .) But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou art but a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she is a man's wife.
    4 .) But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, LORD, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation?
    5 .) Said he not unto me, She is my sister? and she, even she herself said, He is my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this.
    6 .) And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.
    7 .) Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine.
    8 .) Therefore Abimelech rose early in the morning, and called all his servants, and told all these things in their ears: and the men were sore afraid.
    9 .) Then Abimelech called Abraham, and said unto him, What hast thou done unto us? and what have I offended thee, that thou hast brought on me and on my kingdom a great sin? thou hast done deeds unto me that ought not to be done.
    10 .) And Abimelech said unto Abraham, What sawest thou, that thou hast done this thing?
    11 .) And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake.
    12 .) And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.
    13 .) And it came to pass, when God caused me to wander from my father's house, that I said unto her, This is thy kindness which thou shalt shew unto me; at every place whither we shall come, say of me, He is my brother.
    14 .) And Abimelech took sheep, and oxen, and menservants, and womenservants, and gave them unto Abraham, and restored him Sarah his wife.
    15 .) And Abimelech said, Behold, my land is before thee: dwell where it pleaseth thee.
    16 .) And unto Sarah he said, Behold, I have given thy brother a thousand pieces of silver: behold, he is to thee a covering of the eyes, unto all that are with thee, and with all other: thus she was reproved.
    17 .) So Abraham prayed unto God: and God healed Abimelech, and his wife, and his maidservants; and they bare children.
    18 .) For the LORD had fast closed up all the wombs of the house of Abimelech, because of Sarah Abraham's wife.

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    Hebrews 13:5 .) Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
    6 .) So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

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    Default Re: KING DAVID

    5 Stories of forgiveness from Scripture:

    Bible Stories About Forgiveness: 5 Inspirational Scripture...


    (short excerpt)

    Woman Taken in Adultery (John 8)- A Bible Story Where Jesus Examples Forgiveness

    In a show of His own divinity, Jesus forgave a woman who was caught in the act of adultery. She was brought to the Lord by the spiritual leaders in town. They wanted to see if Jesus, claiming to be the Son of God, would obey the Law of God and have the woman stoned. Instead, Jesus said that they were welcome to start the stoning as soon as they felt like they were without sin and did not deserve a stoning of their own. They dropped their rocks and walked away.


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    Hebrews 13:5 .) Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
    6 .) So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

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    Default Re: KING DAVID

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    Actually Saul was picked by the people and there is no indication that Saul was ever saved.....try again!
    Well actually Saul was picked by God and the people approved of the choice..

    (1 Samuel 9:15-17) "¶ Now the LORD had told Samuel in his ear a day before Saul came, saying, {16} To morrow about this time I will send thee a man out of the land of Benjamin, and thou shalt anoint him to be captain over my people Israel, that he may save my people out of the hand of the Philistines: for I have looked upon my people, because their cry is come unto me. {17} And when Samuel saw Saul, the LORD said unto him, Behold the man whom I spake to thee of! this same shall reign over my people."


    (1 Samuel 10:23-26) "And they ran and fetched him thence: and when he stood among the people, he was higher than any of the people from his shoulders and upward. {24} And Samuel said to all the people, See ye him whom the LORD hath chosen, that there is none like him among all the people? And all the people shouted, and said, God save the king. {25} Then Samuel told the people the manner of the kingdom, and wrote it in a book, and laid it up before the LORD. And Samuel sent all the people away, every man to his house. {26} ¶ And Saul also went home to Gibeah; and there went with him a band of men, whose hearts God had touched."

    “In that day you will cry out because of your king, whom you have chosen for yourselves"
    This was God talking of the peoples desire to have a king over them.. They rejected God's Kingship over them.. But God selected Saul to be their first King..
    Last edited by Adstar; 1 Week Ago at 08:06 AM.
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    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: KING DAVID

    Quote Originally Posted by Adstar View Post
    Well actually Saul was picked by God and the people approved of the choice..

    (1 Samuel 9:15-17) "¶ Now the LORD had told Samuel in his ear a day before Saul came, saying, {16} To morrow about this time I will send thee a man out of the land of Benjamin, and thou shalt anoint him to be captain over my people Israel, that he may save my people out of the hand of the Philistines: for I have looked upon my people, because their cry is come unto me. {17} And when Samuel saw Saul, the LORD said unto him, Behold the man whom I spake to thee of! this same shall reign over my people."


    (1 Samuel 10:23-26) "And they ran and fetched him thence: and when he stood among the people, he was higher than any of the people from his shoulders and upward. {24} And Samuel said to all the people, See ye him whom the LORD hath chosen, that there is none like him among all the people? And all the people shouted, and said, God save the king. {25} Then Samuel told the people the manner of the kingdom, and wrote it in a book, and laid it up before the LORD. And Samuel sent all the people away, every man to his house. {26} ¶ And Saul also went home to Gibeah; and there went with him a band of men, whose hearts God had touched."



    This was God talking of the peoples desire to have a king over them.. They rejected God's Kingship over them.. But God selected Saul to be their first King..

    Post 65........It does not alleviate that the root of a human king in Israel was the direct result of the people desiring to be like the nations around them and in doing so rejected GOD and the theocracy it was always meant to be.....

    The people wanted a human KING, told Samuel they wanted a HUMAN KING (he took it to heart they were rejecting him and God corrected him and said NO they were rejecting God) and even though God chose Saul the root cause was the people's desire to have a man over God....

    That is the point I was making............
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    Senior Member Magenta's Avatar
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    Default Re: KING DAVID

    Quote Originally Posted by Adstar View Post
    Well actually Saul was picked by God and the people approved of the choice..

    (1 Samuel 9:15-17) "¶ Now the LORD had told Samuel in his ear a day before Saul came, saying, {16} To morrow about this time I will send thee a man out of the land of Benjamin, and thou shalt anoint him to be captain over my people Israel, that he may save my people out of the hand of the Philistines: for I have looked upon my people, because their cry is come unto me. {17} And when Samuel saw Saul, the LORD said unto him, Behold the man whom I spake to thee of! this same shall reign over my people."

    (1 Samuel 10:23-26) "And they ran and fetched him thence: and when he stood among the people, he was higher than any of the people from his shoulders and upward. {24} And Samuel said to all the people, See ye him whom the LORD hath chosen, that there is none like him among all the people? And all the people shouted, and said, God save the king. {25} Then Samuel told the people the manner of the kingdom, and wrote it in a book, and laid it up before the LORD. And Samuel sent all the people away, every man to his house. {26} ¶ And Saul also went home to Gibeah; and there went with him a band of men, whose hearts God had touched."

    This was God talking of the peoples desire to have a king over them.. They rejected God's Kingship over them.. But God selected Saul to be their first King..
    Good points Saul was appointed by God, regardless of whether the people wanted him or not, or what the reason was that they wanted him. It was something God did, a whatsoever, and yet it does not stand forever as is the false claim for whatsoever God does is forever. Despite all the Scriptures that can and have been given to prove such a position to be in error, it is unlikely they will be shaken from it by the truth. At the heart of this is of course the belief that the soul is immortal despite Scriptures plainly stating that only God is immortal.
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    Embrace the Grace and Rejoice in His Everlasting Mercy and Love




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    Default Re: KING DAVID

    Quote Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
    Yes, for sure the Spirit regenerates, but the way I understood the question was, are we sealed in a way they were not before Jesus? Jesus said in John 14:17 that we would have something the world does not (even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.). See Judges 15:14; 1 Chronicles 12:18; Psalm 51:11; Ezekiel 11:5 for some examples of how the Spirit came and went. in OT times. Although I do not necessarily accept David saying. please don't go, to meaning God necessarily would, just as Paul saying he would rather one thing over another is not a way to set doctrine as if his preference were a reality when it is not given as such.Also, we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace. In OT times, when His is blood was not yet shed... compared to now... would that not change how things are done and/or understood?

    Okay, yeah I see what you're saying. Let me think on that one, there's definitely a difference between looking forward to and us looking back at. But somehow I'm thinking they were sealed - but can't say for sure. I'll think on that one - see if any type or shadow come to mind.

    He has told you, O man, what is good;

    And what does the Lord require of you
    But to do justice, to love kindness,
    And to walk humbly with your God?
    Micah 6:8




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    Default Re: KING DAVID

    Here are my thoughts so far. For whatever they're worth. At lease some discussion maybe? I'm definitely not a teacher, but I'll try to put my thoughts together in a way that it might make some sense.

    Ephesians 1:13,14

    In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

    So, okay, here we're told what happens to the believer. In Christ, having now believed the gospel of Jesus Christ and believing, we're sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. He's sealed us with the pledge of our inheritance - our future redemption.

    So we know we're sealed because the word says so. But in the OT things were hidden even though they were as real then as they are today.

    The OT saints, being regenerated by the Holy Spirit would have to be sealed by Him as well because they also have the promise of eternal life. They had the pledge of their inheritance sealed by the Holy Spirit.

    What Abraham had, we have. What we have, Abraham had. He may not have known fully as we do, but Abraham was born again and it's the same as our born again experience. Saved by God's grace through faith. And that faith of Abraham was credited to him as righteousness.

    In fact when Jesus spoke with Nicodemus, He was surprised that Nicodemus didn't understand what He was teaching him. It should have been something Nicodemus already understood. John 3:10
    Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things?

    The mysteries were concealed in the Old and then revealed in the New. It doesn't mean that we didn't experience the same spiritual truths. But it amazes me how much they really did know, because I've been taught in church that the OT saints didn't know anything of what we know. But Hebrews says something different.

    Colossians 1:25-27
    Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God, that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints, to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

    The OT saints faith chapter.
    Hebrews 11:13-16
    All these died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen them and having welcomed them from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. For those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a country of their own. And indeed if they had been thinking of that country from which they went out, they would have had opportunity to return. But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them.

    I find it truly exciting that they knew they were looking toward a heavenly city. They were given truth cloaked in mystery - it excites me because it shows that their faith is the same as our faith.


    So I'll stop there and see what you guys think. I'll do some more reading on the scriptures that I think have some relevance to the Holy Spirit.

    Again, I always keep in mind that in the OT Jesus is concealed, but He's there and in the NT Jesus is revealed. And also that God is the same today, yesterday and forever.
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    He has told you, O man, what is good;

    And what does the Lord require of you
    But to do justice, to love kindness,
    And to walk humbly with your God?
    Micah 6:8




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    Default Re: KING DAVID

    Thank you for that!!

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    Senior Member OneFaith's Avatar
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    Default Re: KING DAVID

    Before King David was King Saul- who definitely was not OSAS. He separated from God before he even left this earth. Osas is a false teaching, a dangerous one.
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    Default Re: KING DAVID

    One Chapter in Scripture that must be addressed when discussing this subject/belief is the 18th Chapter of Ezekiel. Yes, I know that there are some who will say anything to discount this Chapter, and greatly desire that it would never be brought to the attention of those researching this subject/belief. In spite of their attempts to discredit this Chapter, any person with the reading comprehension of the average 8th Grader can easily determine that it certainly addresses the sinner, the saved, and how each is affected by their sins, and the possible outcome of each. To try and deny that this speaks directly to the concept of OSAS is inane in my opinion.

    WHAT IT SAYS ABOUT THE SOUL THAT SINS:

    20) The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

    WHAT IT SAYS ABOUT THE GRACE OFFERED TO THE SOUL THAT SINS:

    21)
    But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
    22 .) All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
    23 .) Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

    This clearly shows that the sinful soul that repents and seeks God's forgiveness will surely receive it just as Christ teaches throughout His Gospel.

    WHAT IT SAYS ABOUT THE RIGHTEOUS WHO RETURN TO SIN:

    24)
    But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

    Pretty easy to see why those who teach OSAS do not want this passage of Scripture discussed. However, it surely is the Word of God, and God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, and His Word is Truth.

    The Good News is that if such a righteous man (as described above) repents, confesses his sin against God, and asks for forgiveness (just like those men of the Bible I gave accounts of earlier), God is faithful to do what He says He will do, and He will forgive their sins, and they will receive His blessing of eternal life.

    What no one that I know of has ever doubted is that the believer who strives to live Christ-like, to be obedient to Christ, and to accomplish His will as he was purposed for, remains humble before God, and always aware to repent should he slip and sin, he will in no way lose his salvation.

    However, if the believer who sins against God does not repent, confess his sin and ask for forgiveness and dies in his sin, he will surely die! He will in no wise inherit eternal life. Verse 20 makes this abundantly clear for all to understand.

    All of this passage has a direct link and is fully supported by the very Gospel Jesus Christ Himself preached...........especially one small portion that truly defines the life walk of a believer:

    Matthew 24:9)
    Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
    10 .) And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
    11 .) And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
    12 .) And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
    13 .) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.


    Ezekiel, Chapter 18 is such a perfect encapsulation of the Gospel of Christ in my humble opinion, and MUST be the guiding Scripture to determine the Biblical Truth of the teaching of OSAS.



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    Hebrews 13:5 .) Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
    6 .) So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

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    Default Re: KING DAVID

    Quote Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
    Good points Saul was appointed by God, regardless of whether the people wanted him or not, or what the reason was that they wanted him. It was something God did, a whatsoever, and yet it does not stand forever as is the false claim for whatsoever God does is forever. Despite all the Scriptures that can and have been given to prove such a position to be in error, it is unlikely they will be shaken from it by the truth. At the heart of this is of course the belief that the soul is immortal despite Scriptures plainly stating that only God is immortal.
    I think there is a difference in definitions happening here...

    Some people believe Immortal means that something or someone has always existed and will exist forever..

    Others see the Word Immortal to be both something that has always existed and will exist forever more and something that was created but will exist forever more..

    So a we who are created shall exist forever more not as we are not but in our eternal form..

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    Default Re: KING DAVID

    Quote Originally Posted by OneFaith View Post
    Before King David was King Saul- who definitely was not OSAS. He separated from God before he even left this earth. Osas is a false teaching, a dangerous one.
    Saul for a time did have the Spirit and he was counted among the prophets and did prophecy.. But the spirit departed him and he was abandoned by God..

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    Default Re: KING DAVID

    This clearly shows that the sinful soul that repents and seeks God's forgiveness will surely receive it just as Christ teaches throughout His Gospel.
    Amen

    Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of "grace", but of "debt".But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.Romans 4:4

    If any man has not his faith (the faith of Christ) which works in us to both will and do His good pleasure as a imputed righteousness then he does not belong to Christ.

    Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

    Yes, God if we do seek His forgiveness it would indicate a person has a relationship with one who can forgive all of our sins.

    Our God I believe does all the work of salvation ...even turning us towards Himself, enabling us to repent as part of His drawing process..Having begun that good work of salvation us he promises he will finish it to the very end. He is our confidence we put none in the flesh.

    This is I believe if we let the word of God define what it means to repent. I offer the section below as a understanding he has given us..

    I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be "turned"; for thou art the LORD my God.Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth. Jer 31:18

    Remember it is Christ who brings to our memory the things he has taught us, and not that we discovered it of our own selves lest any man boast in false pride. . . I don’t think anyone from the OSAS said a person has no need to repent if God is turning us.

    John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and "bring all things to your remembrance", whatsoever I have said unto you.
    WHAT IT SAYS ABOUT THE RIGHTEOUS WHO RETURN TO SIN:

    24) But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: "in his trespass that he hath trespassed", and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
    In his trespass that he has trespassed, and in his sin that he has sinned in a false hope “ a hope in his own (self righteousness) that he has performed a wonderful work and not according to the righteousness of Christ seeing no man will be found with a righteousness of their own self .Like the man in Mathew 7 in a parable used to humble our hearts as a warning of the many who will be called “workers of inquity” . Christ said to them :I never knew you who work iniquity in a hope of being found with a righteousness of their own self( self-righteous)

    Pretty easy to see why those who teach OSAS do not want this passage of Scripture discussed. However, it surely is the Word of God, and God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, and His Word is Truth.
    There is no passage that declares a born again person does not have to repent when called to repentance each time.

    Pretty easy to see that those who believe the Spirit of Christ, as their source of faith that dwells and works in the believers heart, that the Spirit of Christ must do the first work turning us so that we then can repent. If not they I believe are teaching another gospel ,turning thing upside down as if that which is made, as a new creation says to Him who created them God has no understanding that He could offer. The apostate Jews were guilty of that very thing.

    Isaiah 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
    Last edited by garee; 1 Week Ago at 09:49 AM.

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