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Thread: Heaven and New Jerusalem

  1. #21
    Senior Member resurrection33's Avatar
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    Default Re: Heaven and New Jerusalem

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    Changing your mind about what or who is able to save you (repenting) has nothing to do with becoming perfect.
    I know that when the Lord led me to repent of sins I was committing, my life was transformed beyond what words could describe. I know that anyone else who did as I did experienced the same thing I did. Thereafter, you always want to encourage other people to repent. Most people don't like the message. Am I to stop sharing it, then? No. I will continue to encourage people to repent. A few will do as I did and have their lives transformed.
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    Default Re: Heaven and New Jerusalem

    Quote Originally Posted by resurrection33 View Post
    Doesn't make sense? How could it be more simple?
    What I meant is that what you said has not matched up with my experience thus far, but then I only met God 10 years ago.
    My experience matches more with in this world you will have tribulation and the way to life is narrow and straightening and he who doesn't sell all he owns is not fit for the kingdom.

    It's okay if your experience has been that your life is completely blissful and it's as if you're already in heaven. I was just saying it didn't match my own experience, that's all.
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    Default Re: Heaven and New Jerusalem

    Quote Originally Posted by Stunnedbygrace View Post
    What I meant is that what you said has not matched up with my experience thus far, but then I only met God 10 years ago.
    My experience matches more with in this world you will have tribulation and the way to life is narrow and straightening and he who doesn't sell all he owns is not fit for the kingdom.

    It's okay if your experience has been that your life is completely blissful and it's as if you're already in heaven. I was just saying it didn't match my own experience, that's all.
    The Lord led me to repent of sins I was committing. The transformation that took place in my life was so amazing that I need to tell people about it.
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    Default Re: Heaven and New Jerusalem

    Quote Originally Posted by resurrection33 View Post
    I know that when the Lord led me to repent of sins I was committing, my life was transformed beyond what words could describe. I know that anyone else who did as I did experienced the same thing I did. Thereafter, you always want to encourage other people to repent. Most people don't like the message. Am I to stop sharing it, then? No. I will continue to encourage people to repent. A few will do as I did and have their lives transformed.
    Yes, you really should stop claiming that since you are giving people the completely wrong definition and impression of the Biblical meaning of 'repent.' You are, in effect, reinforcing the Catholic idea that our 'regret' and 'remorse' over sinning is saving us.

    And what Jesus, John, and others were teaching was for men to look at what Jesus brought... to compare it with the system of redemption people were then using to have their sins forgiven (the sacrificial system)... and to change their minds to realize that Salvation NOW came from trusting in Jesus........... And that by believing on Jesus, they would have their sins forgiven.
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    Default Re: Heaven and New Jerusalem

    Quote Originally Posted by resurrection33 View Post
    The Lord led me to repent of sins I was committing. The transformation that took place in my life was so amazing that I need to tell people about it.

    By all means share your experience as God leads you,however to tell people that repentance causes one to experience heaven seems quite discouraging to someone experiencing challenges.

    Jesus did not live an easy earthly life. David did not live an easy life. The Psalms show us that. He cries out to God in agony time after time. Paul Stephen I could go on and on.

    Are we spiritually superior to those great men? I think not.
    Psalm 51:17 My sacrifice,O God is a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart you,God will not depose.
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    Default Re: Heaven and New Jerusalem

    There is a verse somewhere I think in Job about slanting testimony in favor of God and how we can't do it. I'll have to find it...

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    Default Re: Heaven and New Jerusalem

    I believe you will find that heaven is what our lives turn in to when we repent of our sin. I suspect there will be those who protest vigorously, but for those who have ears to hear, try it, if you haven’t already. Another name for it would be New Jerusalem.
    Thanks resurrection33 for sharing this. I basically agree with you. The Bible says that: "Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne" (Isaiah 66:1). I believe this is likely God's way of saying that when he is on the throne, so to speak, in people's hearts, he can use the term heaven to describe them. In fact, that is why people are said to be gathered from one end of heaven to the other in Matthew 24:31; "...shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." The trumpet being used to gather the elect (the term elect means the true believers) is the gospel and the elect are referred to as heaven in this verse. Anywhere they are, from one end to the other, they are gathered from. The apparent fact that true believers can be referred to as heaven is also seen in the Bible verse that says that believers are seated with him in heavenly places in Christ Jesus (Ephesians 2:8), and it means this beginning right immediately after being born again.

    Further, the Bible uses various cities to describe types of persons. The New Jerusalem is not a physical city but a way of describing people whom Christ has saved who are also called his bride.

    You will find that many people think of the Bible as a very literal book, and they see many many verses in a very physical way, a carnal way really to my mind. The Bible says that it is actually written in parable form (Mark 4:34, Psalm 78:1-2) and parables are physical stories but the real interpreted meaning is a spiritual one.

    Thanks for sharing.
    Last edited by birdie; 4 Days Ago at 11:09 PM.

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    Default Re: Heaven and New Jerusalem

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    Yes, you really should stop claiming that since you are giving people the completely wrong definition and impression of the Biblical meaning of 'repent.' You are, in effect, reinforcing the Catholic idea that our 'regret' and 'remorse' over sinning is saving us.

    And what Jesus, John, and others were teaching was for men to look at what Jesus brought... to compare it with the system of redemption people were then using to have their sins forgiven (the sacrificial system)... and to change their minds to realize that Salvation NOW came from trusting in Jesus........... And that by believing on Jesus, they would have their sins forgiven.
    Jesus saves us from our sin, but he expects us to stop making the same mistakes over and over again. His punishment can be very sincere. In a sense, in the end we do have to save ourselves because the Lord's patience has limits.
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    Default Re: Heaven and New Jerusalem

    Quote Originally Posted by His View Post
    By all means share your experience as God leads you,however to tell people that repentance causes one to experience heaven seems quite discouraging to someone experiencing challenges.

    Jesus did not live an easy earthly life. David did not live an easy life. The Psalms show us that. He cries out to God in agony time after time. Paul Stephen I could go on and on.

    Are we spiritually superior to those great men? I think not.
    For people who are willing to repent of their, this is good news.
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  10. #30
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    Default Re: Heaven and New Jerusalem

    Quote Originally Posted by Stunnedbygrace View Post
    There is a verse somewhere I think in Job about slanting testimony in favor of God and how we can't do it. I'll have to find it...
    Are you talking to me? I tell you what happened, nothing more, nothing less.
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  11. #31
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    Default Re: Heaven and New Jerusalem

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    Yes, you really should stop claiming that since you are giving people the completely wrong definition and impression of the Biblical meaning of 'repent.' You are, in effect, reinforcing the Catholic idea that our 'regret' and 'remorse' over sinning is saving us.

    And what Jesus, John, and others were teaching was for men to look at what Jesus brought... to compare it with the system of redemption people were then using to have their sins forgiven (the sacrificial system)... and to change their minds to realize that Salvation NOW came from trusting in Jesus........... And that by believing on Jesus, they would have their sins forgiven.
    Quote Originally Posted by resurrection33 View Post
    Jesus saves us from our sin, but he expects us to stop making the same mistakes over and over again. His punishment can be very sincere. In a sense, in the end we do have to save ourselves because the Lord's patience has limits.
    [12] Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
    [13] for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. Phil 2:12-13 RSV
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  12. #32
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    Default Re: Heaven and New Jerusalem

    Quote Originally Posted by resurrection33 View Post
    The Lord led me to repent of sins I was committing. The transformation that took place in my life was so amazing that I need to tell people about it.

    ​Amazing! Keep sharing.But that has nothing to do with heaven to come nor the New Jerusalem.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Heaven and New Jerusalem

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    Yes, you really should stop claiming that since you are giving people the completely wrong definition and impression of the Biblical meaning of 'repent.' You are, in effect, reinforcing the Catholic idea that our 'regret' and 'remorse' over sinning is saving us.

    And what Jesus, John, and others were teaching was for men to look at what Jesus brought... to compare it with the system of redemption people were then using to have their sins forgiven (the sacrificial system)... and to change their minds to realize that Salvation NOW came from trusting in Jesus........... And that by believing on Jesus, they would have their sins forgiven.
    When we repent of our sin, an indescribable transformation comes over our lives, Willie. It is heaven. As Jesus put it:

    From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV
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  14. #34
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    Default Re: Heaven and New Jerusalem

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    Yes, you really should stop claiming that since you are giving people the completely wrong definition and impression of the Biblical meaning of 'repent.' You are, in effect, reinforcing the Catholic idea that our 'regret' and 'remorse' over sinning is saving us.

    And what Jesus, John, and others were teaching was for men to look at what Jesus brought... to compare it with the system of redemption people were then using to have their sins forgiven (the sacrificial system)... and to change their minds to realize that Salvation NOW came from trusting in Jesus........... And that by believing on Jesus, they would have their sins forgiven.
    Want more evidence? Okay:

    [19] Open to me the gates of righteousness,
    that I may enter through them
    and give thanks to the LORD.

    [20] This is the gate of the LORD;
    the righteous shall enter through it. Psalm 118:19-20 RSV
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  15. #35
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    Default Re: Heaven and New Jerusalem

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    Yes, you really should stop claiming that since you are giving people the completely wrong definition and impression of the Biblical meaning of 'repent.' You are, in effect, reinforcing the Catholic idea that our 'regret' and 'remorse' over sinning is saving us.

    And what Jesus, John, and others were teaching was for men to look at what Jesus brought... to compare it with the system of redemption people were then using to have their sins forgiven (the sacrificial system)... and to change their minds to realize that Salvation NOW came from trusting in Jesus........... And that by believing on Jesus, they would have their sins forgiven.
    We can repent of our sin or we can make excuses.
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  16. #36
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    Default Re: Heaven and New Jerusalem

    Quote Originally Posted by kaylagrl View Post
    ​Amazing! Keep sharing.But that has nothing to do with heaven to come nor the New Jerusalem.
    There you are wrong:

    From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV
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  17. #37
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    Default Re: Heaven and New Jerusalem

    Quote Originally Posted by resurrection33 View Post
    There you are wrong:

    From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV
    .
    That translates, "Change your mind about where your hope really lies, because that hope is right here in front of you, right here and now.
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  18. #38
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    Default Re: Heaven and New Jerusalem

    Quote Originally Posted by resurrection33 View Post
    There you are wrong:

    From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV
    No,sorry,you're reading something into the verse that is not there. And you do not base a doctrine on one verse. That is not what the verse means,you are twisting it. There is no such thing as heaven on earth. Heaven is a place we as saints are going.Its not in the here and now. Jesus said "I go to prepare a place..."

  19. #39
    Senior Member resurrection33's Avatar
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    Default Re: Heaven and New Jerusalem

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    .
    That translates, "Change your mind about where your hope really lies, because that hope is right here in front of you, right here and now.
    Just repent, Willie.
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  20. #40
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    Default Re: Heaven and New Jerusalem

    Quote Originally Posted by kaylagrl View Post
    No,sorry,you're reading something into the verse that is not there. And you do not base a doctrine on one verse. That is not what the verse means,you are twisting it. There is no such thing as heaven on earth. Heaven is a place we as saints are going.Its not in the here and now. Jesus said "I go to prepare a place..."
    Just repent, Kaylagrl.
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