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Thread: Position Appreciated

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    Senior Member NetChaplain's Avatar
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    Default Position Appreciated

    There are two dangers to which believers are exposed: one is stopping short of the position grace gives;* the others is, losing the abiding sense of it in the soul. Both involve what is important as to position and condition. The latter should be governed by the former, and both maintained in consistency and grateful thankfulness to the Father of all grace, from Whom all blessedness comes, and to Whom all the fruit of it should return.

    Alas, how little pure grace is known or understood with the love that gave rise to it, and the work of the Lord Jesus by which the grace of salvation has freely come. The grace that saves from death and judgment, with present forgiveness of sins, is much clouded with uncertainty; so that the fullness of grace in positioning us in Christ in heaven is rarely heard of, much less known and believed in as a present blessed reality.

    No wonder therefore, that the ground of an earthly people is accepted, and Jewish things imitated; as if what was, should still be in experience and practice rather than what is, since the Lord Jesus has come and is gone back into heaven. Eternal redemption, eternal life, present seated position in Him, in the abiding rest of a complete salvation, are nevertheless for today, since the Gospel has given by the Holy Spirit sent down from heaven. Happy are those who receive in their simplicity these blessed realities, as beyond all question!

    It is well, for those who in any measure know what grace has freely and fully given in Christ, to be reminded of the responsibility such a position brings with it. Gentiles when under the profession of Christ, have become proud and boastful, indifferent to the true grace of God, yea, have turned it to fleshly purposes heavenly position may well give heed, lest they fall into the snare of practical indifference to the abiding sense of what grace should produce.

    If heavenly life calls for heavenly ways and fruit, so also such a position claims the corresponding answer in separation from all that which is a denial of it, bearing in mind that those positioned in Christ on high are created in Him unto good works. To avert the danger of falling short, either of the place grace gives, or of its abiding effects, no brighter example can be given to follow, that the Apostle Paul, to whom its fullness was made known, and as it was received so was it manifested to others.

    Grace abounded toward him to own himself the chief of sinners, the least of the Apostles and of all saints. “Not I, but the grace of God which was with me.” In motive and object Christ Himself governed him: a man in Christ his grand theme, in contrast the man in the flesh; and Christ in glory the One for Whom he has suffered the loss of all things, to gain Whom as His eternal portion would be his incomparable blessedness.

    Such was grace to him for salvation and position, as Christ Jesus was his Savior, object and boast. May that same grace so work in us by the blessed Spirit of God to beget in some little measure a like answer to the praise of Him, Who, though on high, yet went lower than all, in order to provide at all cost to Himself a position not only in Him in the heavenlies now, but to be with Him in His own blessed likeness forever and ever. Amen!

    - G Gardner



    Poster’s Opinion:

    * “stopping short of the position grace gives”: this involves incomplete understanding that the forgiveness of all sin encountered in a believer’s life is expiated in Christ, and that apart from this knowledge believers cannot walk “with a true heart in full assurance of faith” (Heb 10:22).

    * “losing the abiding sense of it”: not having in the conscience the rest, security and encouragement which comes from understanding the permanency of grace. Even though this permanency is actual concerning all who are born again, a life of certainty in all the promises of God in Christ cannot be rested in apart from knowing this.

    * “the latter should be governed by the former”: knowing that the “position” of forgiveness in Christ is complete and permanent provides encouragement and consistency in the growth of our faith, regardless of circumstance (feelings, opposition, etc.).


    Excerpt from MJS devotional for March 20:

    “The wilderness wanderers were maintained by manna, but those in Canaan flourished on “the old corn of the land.” The carnal Christian exists on the milk of the Word, while the hungry-hearted believer feeds and matures on the meat of the Word.”

    None But The Hungry Heart
    zone and FreeNChrist like this.
    "Our Father is going to teach us, mainly through personal failure, that the life we live is the life of our Lord Jesus alone. The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, or our trying to be Christ-like, nor is it Christ giving us the power to live a life like His; but it is Christ Himself living His own life through us; 'no longer I, but Christ.’” -MJS

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    Senior Member Willie-T's Avatar
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    Default Re: Position Appreciated

    I was almost shocked. I read the title, and thought that an impossibility had occured. I honestly thought the Net Chaplain was asking for an opinion or actual feedback and dialogue.

    Then I read more, and saw I was wrong. It is just the usual declarative stament he always dumps on dozens of forums all over the web. Please, someone give this guy a job so he can feel he is finally a preacher.
    dcontroversal likes this.
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    Senior Member Blain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Position Appreciated

    Grace seems to be the most debated topic here in the forums and each side believes they understand grace and the other doesn't many wars are made from such a simple subject and brothers and sisters are mocking attacking and arguing with each other because we hold different views and understanding of it.

    Surely there must be a point when we come to an understanding? after all the debates on the subject of grace and osas ect. how many of us have actually learned from them? how many have come to an understanding that they might have been wrong? How many have become closer to God from discussions? I think grace is indeed a subject that is well worth discussing however if you go into a discussion like this with the wrong heart then it will turn into war and neither end will receive anything good. you don't read the bible with an un teachable heart do you? you don't read the scriptures with your own views and understanding already set in stone do you? you don't read the bible only seeing what you believe to be truth do you? I would hope not.

    Why then do we debate in this very manner? what is to be gained from it? How does it deepen the love and bond with you and God and how does it reach the hearts of others? Ask yourself this- why do you frequent the bdf? do you frequent it simply to debate? or because you seek to learn and grow in love and in Christ? the fruits of your responses to threads here will show your hearts motive for frequenting the forums so be aware of your words. we all must search our own hearts and must question our reasons for everything our hearts motives for all things especially so as to why we are Christian
    Desertsrose and His like this.
    My life's testimony seems to have helped many people so I am going to put it here http://christianchat.com/testimonies...-new-post.html

    When the hearts of God and a child of his make that special intimate connection a wondrous power is born and a flame ignites that can never be put out

    Jesus knew more than anyone of us-Love hurts

    A fired up Christian shouldn't be that big a deal. Our love should be an overpowering burning desire to serve and be in His presence

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    Senior Member FranC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Position Appreciated

    Quote Originally Posted by Blain View Post
    Grace seems to be the most debated topic here in the forums and each side believes they understand grace and the other doesn't many wars are made from such a simple subject and brothers and sisters are mocking attacking and arguing with each other because we hold different views and understanding of it.

    Surely there must be a point when we come to an understanding? after all the debates on the subject of grace and osas ect. how many of us have actually learned from them? how many have come to an understanding that they might have been wrong? How many have become closer to God from discussions? I think grace is indeed a subject that is well worth discussing however if you go into a discussion like this with the wrong heart then it will turn into war and neither end will receive anything good. you don't read the bible with an un teachable heart do you? you don't read the scriptures with your own views and understanding already set in stone do you? you don't read the bible only seeing what you believe to be truth do you? I would hope not.

    Why then do we debate in this very manner? what is to be gained from it? How does it deepen the love and bond with you and God and how does it reach the hearts of others? Ask yourself this- why do you frequent the bdf? do you frequent it simply to debate? or because you seek to learn and grow in love and in Christ? the fruits of your responses to threads here will show your hearts motive for frequenting the forums so be aware of your words. we all must search our own hearts and must question our reasons for everything our hearts motives for all things especially so as to why we are Christian
    Hi Blain

    I think it's important to discuss eternal salvation.
    I'd like to understand why you think it's NOT important.
    Really, I don't participate in page after page of discussion unless it has to do with this.

    Here's why I think it's important:

    Jesus left heaven to come here to die for our sins.
    OK.

    He also came here to teach us that the Kingdom of God was at hand, it was at hand because it begins here on earth and is continued after our death. We could belong to it right now.

    But what exactly did Jesus teach us?
    Did He teach us specific rules and ways to live?
    Did He speak of lessons we're to learn, of how we should be internally?
    Are we supposed to be a certain way, and forever??

    OR

    Do we get to answer an altar call at some point in our lives and then at some future point decide it's all nonsense but we're saved ANYWAY, just like someone who is following the way of our Lord?

    It seems to me that if one is an unbeliever, he will not be saved.
    This is important... wouldn't you think?
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    Senior Member Blain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Position Appreciated

    Quote Originally Posted by FranC View Post
    Hi Blain

    I think it's important to discuss eternal salvation.
    I'd like to understand why you think it's NOT important.
    Really, I don't participate in page after page of discussion unless it has to do with this.

    Here's why I think it's important:

    Jesus left heaven to come here to die for our sins.
    OK.

    He also came here to teach us that the Kingdom of God was at hand, it was at hand because it begins here on earth and is continued after our death. We could belong to it right now.

    But what exactly did Jesus teach us?
    Did He teach us specific rules and ways to live?
    Did He speak of lessons we're to learn, of how we should be internally?
    Are we supposed to be a certain way, and forever??

    OR

    Do we get to answer an altar call at some point in our lives and then at some future point decide it's all nonsense but we're saved ANYWAY, just like someone who is following the way of our Lord?

    It seems to me that if one is an unbeliever, he will not be saved.
    This is important... wouldn't you think?
    perhaps you did not see this in my post I think grace is indeed a subject that is well worth discussing however if you go into a discussion like this with the wrong heart then it will turn into war and neither end will receive anything good. It is a very important subject to debate and debating is good if done with a teachable heart and the humbleness to admit that you may have been wrong but there is a vast difference between debating and flat out arguing.
    My life's testimony seems to have helped many people so I am going to put it here http://christianchat.com/testimonies...-new-post.html

    When the hearts of God and a child of his make that special intimate connection a wondrous power is born and a flame ignites that can never be put out

    Jesus knew more than anyone of us-Love hurts

    A fired up Christian shouldn't be that big a deal. Our love should be an overpowering burning desire to serve and be in His presence

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    Default Re: Position Appreciated

    Hi blain! Haven't seen you in a long time.
    I think it's misdirection and it's purposeful.
    It's like when politicians bring up things that cause divisiveness. It puts everybody in one camp or the other and then they just keep duking it out over and over again. Meanwhile, nothing changes because the root of the problems has just breezed on by while everyone focuses on the misdirect.
    It's pitiful.
    If it isn't helping you to grow in virtue - meekness, humbleness, love, etc., then whatever is the purpose??
    Blain and Desertsrose like this.

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    Senior Member Blain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Position Appreciated

    Quote Originally Posted by Stunnedbygrace View Post
    Hi blain! Haven't seen you in a long time.
    I think it's misdirection and it's purposeful.
    It's like when politicians bring up things that cause divisiveness. It puts everybody in one camp or the other and then they just keep duking it out over and over again. Meanwhile, nothing changes because the root of the problems has just breezed on by while everyone focuses on the misdirect.
    It's pitiful.
    If it isn't helping you to grow in virtue - meekness, humbleness, love, etc., then whatever is the purpose??
    lol ya sorry i haven mia for while there was a certain storm i was going through that required me to separate myself and kind of go into the wilderness with God. And yes you have very good and important points it's often times not even about grace it's a trigger thing, sadly people thrive on chaos they thrive on disruption sometimes it's because their bored other times it's because some people live on that heated debate high.

    Debating even heated debates have their purposes and can be good for the believer if done in the right manner and with the right heart, if we cannot debate in a calm mature and loving manner then should we even be debating? Love does not debate to prove itself right and does not debate with the firm belief that they are correct and others are not. love does not attack mock and discredit others in debates rather love helps guide teach and builds others up in debates love learns from others even if it opposes what we thought for certain was the truth.

    A wise man joyfully receives correction a child rejects it and retaliates
    Desertsrose likes this.
    My life's testimony seems to have helped many people so I am going to put it here http://christianchat.com/testimonies...-new-post.html

    When the hearts of God and a child of his make that special intimate connection a wondrous power is born and a flame ignites that can never be put out

    Jesus knew more than anyone of us-Love hurts

    A fired up Christian shouldn't be that big a deal. Our love should be an overpowering burning desire to serve and be in His presence

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    Senior Member Desertsrose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Position Appreciated

    Quote Originally Posted by Blain View Post
    lol ya sorry i haven mia for while there was a certain storm i was going through that required me to separate myself and kind of go into the wilderness with God. And yes you have very good and important points it's often times not even about grace it's a trigger thing, sadly people thrive on chaos they thrive on disruption sometimes it's because their bored other times it's because some people live on that heated debate high.

    Debating even heated debates have their purposes and can be good for the believer if done in the right manner and with the right heart, if we cannot debate in a calm mature and loving manner then should we even be debating? Love does not debate to prove itself right and does not debate with the firm belief that they are correct and others are not. love does not attack mock and discredit others in debates rather love helps guide teach and builds others up in debates love learns from others even if it opposes what we thought for certain was the truth.

    A wise man joyfully receives correction a child rejects it and retaliates
    *Have to spread the rep around* You're words are full of God's grace, Blain!
    Blain likes this.

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    And what does the Lord require of you
    But to do justice, to love kindness,
    And to walk humbly with your God?
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    Default Re: Position Appreciated

    Quote Originally Posted by Blain View Post
    lol ya sorry i haven mia for while there was a certain storm i was going through that required me to separate myself and kind of go into the wilderness with God. And yes you have very good and important points it's often times not even about grace it's a trigger thing, sadly people thrive on chaos they thrive on disruption sometimes it's because their bored other times it's because some people live on that heated debate high.

    Debating even heated debates have their purposes and can be good for the believer if done in the right manner and with the right heart, if we cannot debate in a calm mature and loving manner then should we even be debating? Love does not debate to prove itself right and does not debate with the firm belief that they are correct and others are not. love does not attack mock and discredit others in debates rather love helps guide teach and builds others up in debates love learns from others even if it opposes what we thought for certain was the truth.

    A wise man joyfully receives correction a child rejects it and retaliates
    I think that by saying people thrive on chaos is missing my point a little bit.
    We don't wrestle against flesh and blood. There is someone behind the misdirect.
    The misdirect seems to me to be geared toward distracting, obfuscating, hindering.
    Who or what is driving the chaos and WHY?

    It starts to look very similar to Pharaoh: they just have too much time on their hands. That's why they want to go and worship their God. Let's take their mind off of it and give them some work to do that distracts and dissipates this desire. Let's keep them so busy and distracted that they don't even notice what's going on.

    And we do become so distracted that we take no notice of love waning and can't see we are not walking in love toward others. We think we are doing some service for God in this. We don't even see the misdirect and the dissipation and chaos.
    Blain likes this.

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    Default Re: Position Appreciated

    By the way, I would so much like to hear about that storm that I forget my manners and ask you to share in case there might be some help for me in it.
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    Senior Member NetChaplain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Position Appreciated

    Quote Originally Posted by Blain View Post
    Grace seems to be the most debated topic here in the forums and each side believes they understand grace and the other doesn't many wars are made from such a simple subject and brothers and sisters are mocking attacking and arguing with each other because we hold different views and understanding of it.
    Hi Blain and thanks for the good reply.
    Blain likes this.
    "Our Father is going to teach us, mainly through personal failure, that the life we live is the life of our Lord Jesus alone. The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, or our trying to be Christ-like, nor is it Christ giving us the power to live a life like His; but it is Christ Himself living His own life through us; 'no longer I, but Christ.’” -MJS

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    Default Re: Position Appreciated

    Quote Originally Posted by Desertsrose View Post
    *Have to spread the rep around* You're words are full of God's grace, Blain!
    no rep is needed as for my words being full of God's grace I cannot take credit for that, besides it's not my words that need to be spoken is it?
    My life's testimony seems to have helped many people so I am going to put it here http://christianchat.com/testimonies...-new-post.html

    When the hearts of God and a child of his make that special intimate connection a wondrous power is born and a flame ignites that can never be put out

    Jesus knew more than anyone of us-Love hurts

    A fired up Christian shouldn't be that big a deal. Our love should be an overpowering burning desire to serve and be in His presence

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    Senior Member Blain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Position Appreciated

    Quote Originally Posted by Stunnedbygrace View Post
    By the way, I would so much like to hear about that storm that I forget my manners and ask you to share in case there might be some help for me in it.
    Oh no worries your manners are fine, this storm was something that was going on inside me i went through a season where i was constantly being filled with this numb feeling inside as well as having the flue and being sick for two weeks I could not find any kind of hope from God i simply could not connect to him anymore at all and even didn't really want to spend much time with him anymore this went on for well over two weeks.

    Now i am not at the point in faith where i rely of (feeling) him but the connection itself seemed to not be there at all, but this kind of storm comes every now and then with me and it's the worst kind of storm for me in particular because i can't stand being away from him i can't even spend more than three days away from him without missing him but these storms are a necessity for me because it forces me to have faith and to believe in him all the more and it forces me to find him else where than cc.
    Desertsrose likes this.
    My life's testimony seems to have helped many people so I am going to put it here http://christianchat.com/testimonies...-new-post.html

    When the hearts of God and a child of his make that special intimate connection a wondrous power is born and a flame ignites that can never be put out

    Jesus knew more than anyone of us-Love hurts

    A fired up Christian shouldn't be that big a deal. Our love should be an overpowering burning desire to serve and be in His presence

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    Senior Member NetChaplain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Position Appreciated

    Quote Originally Posted by Stunnedbygrace View Post
    Who or what is driving the chaos and WHY?
    Hi SBG - I like your input. Concerning this, the "chaos" derives from only three sources: Self (old self), Satan and society (unsaved individuals, which are always most of society - Mat 7:14, 14).
    Blain likes this.
    "Our Father is going to teach us, mainly through personal failure, that the life we live is the life of our Lord Jesus alone. The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, or our trying to be Christ-like, nor is it Christ giving us the power to live a life like His; but it is Christ Himself living His own life through us; 'no longer I, but Christ.’” -MJS

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    Default Re: Position Appreciated

    Quote Originally Posted by Blain View Post
    perhaps you did not see this in my post I think grace is indeed a subject that is well worth discussing however if you go into a discussion like this with the wrong heart then it will turn into war and neither end will receive anything good. It is a very important subject to debate and debating is good if done with a teachable heart and the humbleness to admit that you may have been wrong but there is a vast difference between debating and flat out arguing.
    that's my boy! ♥
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    Default Re: Position Appreciated

    Quote Originally Posted by Blain View Post
    Oh no worries your manners are fine, this storm was something that was going on inside me i went through a season where i was constantly being filled with this numb feeling inside as well as having the flue and being sick for two weeks I could not find any kind of hope from God i simply could not connect to him anymore at all and even didn't really want to spend much time with him anymore this went on for well over two weeks.

    Now i am not at the point in faith where i rely of (feeling) him but the connection itself seemed to not be there at all, but this kind of storm comes every now and then with me and it's the worst kind of storm for me in particular because i can't stand being away from him i can't even spend more than three days away from him without missing him but these storms are a necessity for me because it forces me to have faith and to believe in him all the more and it forces me to find him else where than cc.

    Ah...! That's where I am too! And you seesaw back and forth between knowing to just submit in faith and then feeling, I must DO something and then back to submitting to it in faith. It is the worst pain it almost can't be described. John of the Cross says those who think they aren't praying and can't pray or find support in anything are often the ones who are praying the most. He also says that this total darkness is when God is working most in us but it's like how an overly bright light blinds us. We need light to see but if it is excessively bright we are blinded and dumb because of the weakness of our eyes.
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    Default Re: Position Appreciated

    Quote Originally Posted by NetChaplain View Post
    Hi SBG - I like your input. Concerning this, the "chaos" derives from only three sources: Self (old self), Satan and society (unsaved individuals, which are always most of society - Mat 7:14, 14).
    The world, the flesh and the devil...

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    Default Re: Position Appreciated

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    I was almost shocked. I read the title, and thought that an impossibility had occured. I honestly thought the Net Chaplain was asking for an opinion or actual feedback and dialogue.

    Then I read more, and saw I was wrong. It is just the usual declarative stament he always dumps on dozens of forums all over the web. Please, someone give this guy a job so he can feel he is finally a preacher.
    I didn't get past (passed?) "stopping short of the position grace gives." I'm still trying to figure that one out.
    Fear not, little flock, for it is God's good pleasure to give you the Kingdom.

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    Default Re: Position Appreciated

    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    I didn't get past (passed?) "stopping short of the position grace gives." I'm still trying to figure that one out.
    Hi Utah - Understandable! Means if one is a believer, he is in the full pardon grace provides, even if he doesn't believe or understand it to be so. Thus if we do not comprehend this freedom we cannot walk in it even though we live in it. Similar to "If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit."
    Last edited by NetChaplain; 4 Days Ago at 09:01 PM.
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    "Our Father is going to teach us, mainly through personal failure, that the life we live is the life of our Lord Jesus alone. The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, or our trying to be Christ-like, nor is it Christ giving us the power to live a life like His; but it is Christ Himself living His own life through us; 'no longer I, but Christ.’” -MJS

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    Default Re: Position Appreciated

    Quote Originally Posted by Stunnedbygrace View Post
    Ah...! That's where I am too! And you seesaw back and forth between knowing to just submit in faith and then feeling, I must DO something and then back to submitting to it in faith. It is the worst pain it almost can't be described. John of the Cross says those who think they aren't praying and can't pray or find support in anything are often the ones who are praying the most. He also says that this total darkness is when God is working most in us but it's like how an overly bright light blinds us. We need light to see but if it is excessively bright we are blinded and dumb because of the weakness of our eyes.
    This part here but it's like how an overly bright light blinds us. We need light to see but if it is excessively bright we are blinded and dumb because of the weakness of our eyes. amazes me because God taught me this too a while back. On my daily walks when he and I are able to speak and be with each other in a very unique way i can't do any other way he often times will teach me using analogies and one of them was put in my heart about our eyes. Our eyes need both light and darkness to be able to see if it's to dark we are blind and only see darkness but if it's to bright then our eyes fade and we become blind, this analogy came to me when I was asking God about us human vs angels and demons.

    To my understanding angels and demons are either good or evil light or darkness there is no in between your either an angel or a demon your either in heaven or hell, but we humans seem to be unique as we bare both light and darkness in us even when we are saved and then when this analogy was put in my heart I wondered if there was maybe a reason for these things
    Stunnedbygrace likes this.
    My life's testimony seems to have helped many people so I am going to put it here http://christianchat.com/testimonies...-new-post.html

    When the hearts of God and a child of his make that special intimate connection a wondrous power is born and a flame ignites that can never be put out

    Jesus knew more than anyone of us-Love hurts

    A fired up Christian shouldn't be that big a deal. Our love should be an overpowering burning desire to serve and be in His presence

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