Does God Punish Or Do We

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DustyRhodes

Senior Member
Dec 30, 2016
2,117
599
113
#1
I propose this allegory as my point of view. I am
aware that not everyone would accept it but I have
not seen any other way that God punishes us while
we are alive.


I am walking through the wilderness, a place barren
and desolate. I have wandered and roamed for a
very long time and have lost my way. In the distance
I spot the glow of a fire burning. I walk towards it and
I begin to sense the warmth of the fire and slowly go
closer. Now I feel the warmth of the fire and others
are also there and for once in a very long time and I
take comfort from it. After a while complacency sets
in and I begin to wander away for short spells and
come back as I begin to get colder again. Then I
return to comfort again. Eventually I walk too far away
to come back and I am shrouded by pain and isolation.
For a while I kept turning to see the light until it grew
dim and out of sight. The warmth of the fire remained
but from lack of discipline I put myself into misery
again.
 

Tinkerbell725

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2014
4,216
1,179
113
Philippines Age 40
#2
Sin is its own punishment. God forgives sins but sin always has consequences. To sin is to self destruct. The wicked shall not go unpunished.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#3
"God never punishes his children in the sense of avenging justice: he chastens as a father does his child, but he never punishes his redeemed as a judge does a criminal. It would be unjust to exact punishment from redeemed souls since Christ has been punished in their place. How can the Lord punish twice for one offense? If Christ took my sins and stood as my substitute, then there is no wrath of God for me; and though my cup may be bitter, yet there cannot be a single drop of Almighty wrath in it…

Oh! what a mercy that Sinai has ceased to thunder! Lord, let Jesus say what he will so long as Moses is quieted forever."

- C H Spurgeon
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
#4
Your description sounds familiar. That's how my Christian life went for a very long time. Then I found out about the grace of God for exactly such times. I have not been back to that isolation and inconsistency ever since.

If a Christian is not walking in the joy of the Lord., for sure they are dealing with the attacks of the enemy because they are vulnerable to condemnation and guilt and temptation. Walking in the flesh is no fun for the Christian. And remember too, walking in our own understanding IS walking in the flesh even if we are not doing any outward sins, the sin of unbelief that refuses to trust His love for us is just as devastating.

Just like the story about the piggy being happy to play and stay in the mud but the sheep is not. The sheep may get stuck in the mud for a while but is not happy in it and wants to find a way out. Whereas the piggy is not looking for a way out since he is in his element.

So it's not God who causes this punishment because those who have Christ are no longer condemned Rom.8:1
8 Therefore, [there is] now no condemnation (no adjudging guilty of wrong) for those who are in Christ Jesus.

But because many believers don't know this, they take the condemnation and guilt they believe they deserve and the devil is also accusing them of and they then stay away from the Lord because of shame and guilt. They don't know that Jesus died for just this very sin and offers a way out.

The battlefield is in the mind and most Christians don't know it's a matter of right believing. If the devil can get them to believe God is condemning them, he has won and he can keep a Christian miserable and ineffective for years.

All because they don't know or believe the love of God is different than man's love. Man's love is based on the behavior of the other person. But God's love is unmerited and undeserved based on Jesus Christ not only for when they first got saved but for when they are learning to walk out the faith. We can never earn His love with our behavior. We already have it as a gift from Jesus and need to claim it by faith and walk in the freedom of His love and grace.



 
Last edited:
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#5
Does God Punish Or Do We?

Ask Ananias & Sapphira.

Gal 6:6The one who is taught the word is to share all good things with the one who teaches him. 7Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. 8For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary. 10So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith.

BTW, all such scripture who says "the one" means "anyone", saved or not. There are no separate scriptures nor are christians given separate/different treatment in any such scriptures. God judges everyone the same when it comes to premeditated wickedness.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#6
Does God Punish Or Do We?

Ask Ananias & Sapphira.

Gal 6:6The one who is taught the word is to share all good things with the one who teaches him. 7Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. 8For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary. 10So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith.

BTW, all such scripture who says "the one" means "anyone", saved or not. There are no separate scriptures nor are christians given separate/different treatment in any such scriptures. God judges everyone the same when it comes to premeditated wickedness.
How does an unsaved person "sow to the Spirit"???
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#7
Here is a grace-based article about Ananias and Sapphira. I like to use this website sometimes as it has a place at the bottom where others have asked questions. Usually we all have the same questions about some things.

What about Ananias and Sapphira?

Recently in Connecticut, a pastor stood in front of his church and confessed to the sin of adultery. Then the pastor fell down dead, right in front of everyone. This proves that God expects his people to live holy lives and if they don’t, he’ll kill them.

Of course, that’s complete nonsense. The story is true – a Connecticut pastor really did die – but the interpretation is all wrong. The fact is, God doesn’t treat us as our sins deserve. But what are we to make of Ananias and Sapphira who, like the poor pastor, dropped dead in a church (Acts 5:1-11)?

The bizarre deaths of Ananias and Sapphira have been debated for 2,000 years. Why did they die? Did God kill them? Why did God kill them? Why is this story in the Bible? Am I supposed to learn something from it? What? Will God kill me if I lie?

Questions like these have provided sermon material for countless fear-mongers. “God killed Ananias and Sapphira because they sinned and if you’re not careful he’ll kill you too! So fear God and behave yourself.” Has there ever been a more damnable lie inflicted on those whom God loves? (Actually, I can think of several worse lies.)

Unpunishable on account of Jesus

I could give you a hundred scriptures to show you that God did not kill Ananias and Sapphira for their sins and to assure you that he won’t kill you for yours, but three should suffice:

(God) doesn’t punish us as our sins deserve. (Psalm 103:10, CEV)

The punishment that brought us peace was on him… (Isa 53:5b)

God is not counting people’s sins against them. (2 Cor 5:19b)

The very good news of Jesus is that your sins and my sins and the sins of that Connecticut pastor and the sins of Ananias and Sapphira were condemned on the cross and there is nothing left to condemn! God was angry with your sins, which is why he poured out his wrath and dealt with them once and for all at Calvary (Rom 8:3).

Those who accuse God of killing sinners are confused about the cross. God doesn’t kill sinners, he saves sinners. God doesn’t hate sinners, he loves them!

But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (Rom 5:8)

If God killed Ananias and Sapphira then the Bible is wrong and Jesus is not the Lamb of God who carried the sins of the world. (If you’re wondering about Herod, read this.)

There’s no shortage of sinners in this world. Why would God kill one couple and leave the rest alone?
I’ve heard it said that God killed Ananias and Sapphira to warn and purify the infant church. By making an example out of these hypocrites, the church would be filled with a holy fear and kept safe from liars and cheats. If so, then God failed spectacularly. Liars, cheats and hypocrites have always been with us, and there were plenty in the New Testament church.

I’ve also heard it said that God set up this killing to establish the authority of his apostles. Never mind that Peter had been commissioned by the Lord and filled with the Holy Spirit. Like a kid going through a gangster initiation he had to kill someone to establish his bona fides. How absurd! How utterly inconsistent with the message Peter had been commissioned to preach.

Meanwhile back in Connecticut

People sometimes ask me, “Did God kill Ananias and Sapphira?” When I reply in the negative I am invariably asked, “So who did?” as though there was some murder mystery to be solved. But the facts of their deaths may be more prosaic.

The pastor in Connecticut died from a sudden heart failure, which is very sad. Perhaps it was the stress of hiding a lie or losing his reputation that triggered the attack. At the time of his death there was speculation in the press that he didn’t plan to confess at all – the adultery was a long time ago – but he had been ambushed by church members who had heard about his affair. Emotions were running high. There was shouting. The man died. Whatever happened, it’s a sad story.

But I am struck by the similarities between the Connecticut story and the deaths of Ananias and Sapphira:


  • By having a secret affair, you could argue that the pastor lied to his church and he lied to God, as did Ananias and Sapphira.


  • The pastor was confronted by church members, as were Ananias and Sapphira.


  • The pastor dropped down dead, just like Ananias and Sapphira.

As far as I know, no one is blaming God for the pastor’s death, so why would anyone blame him for the deaths of Ananias and Sapphira? If you must blame someone, blame sin. Sin kills people. Sin ruins marriages and destroys lives. Sin is bad.

And this is exactly why Jesus came – so that you might be free from the curse of sin and live. If there is any takeaway from the Ananias and Sapphira story, it’s that the wages of sin is death. That’s the bad news. But the good news is that God is good, he doesn’t treat you as your sins deserve, and he freely gives life to sinners.

That’s the gospel of Jesus that we all need to hear!

Here is the link below if anyone is interested in looking at the questions. We have a great salvation in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection.

https://escapetoreality.org/2015/04/09/what-about-ananias-and-sapphira/
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
#8
Does God Punish Or Do We?

Ask Ananias & Sapphira.

Gal 6:6The one who is taught the word is to share all good things with the one who teaches him. 7Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. 8For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary. 10So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith.

BTW, all such scripture who says "the one" means "anyone", saved or not. There are no separate scriptures nor are christians given separate/different treatment in any such scriptures. God judges everyone the same when it comes to premeditated wickedness.

The Christian is no longer judged with the world. He has escaped that because of Christ and the gift of His righteousness given and received as a gift. Once a believer learns about this kind of love of God in Christ., they are aware that there is no condemnation coming from God anymore. Jesus paid for 100% all the punishment and wrath of God when He died on the cross. We now are no longer trying to gain God's approval because in Jesus we already have it.

God is no longer judging us like the world. We are bought with a price and are learning to walk out our salvation.
Whenever we read verses we must see them in light of the love and grace of God in Christ. The sowing and reaping is a spiritual law and deals with how a person uses their finances. It's a principle in Scripture. What we sow into is what we will reap the benefits of.

If one doesn't sow financially into the Gospel they will fail to reap finances in their personal life. A person who is acting in accordance with the Spirit of God and the Word of God are sowing to the Spirit. But those who act independently (in their own understanding) are sowing to the flesh.

God isn't mocked in this spiritual principle. Those who give of their time and effort to share the Word of God with others will reap a harvest 1 Cor.9:7

Weariness comes over a time and the sowing and reaping takes place over a time. Spiritual weariness takes place in our minds. Heb.12:3 We have to win the battle over our thoughts. Believing what God says (no more condemnation) instead of what our thoughts say of His condemnation upon us. We are no longer condemned. We are loved 100% in Christ even if we don't "feel" it., we must believe it by faith.

Jesus already won and prevailed so we are to consider Him and walk in His victory that He won for us. Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our faith. He will never leave us or forsake us.

 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
#9
Here is a grace-based article about Ananias and Sapphira. I like to use this website sometimes as it has a place at the bottom where others have asked questions. Usually we all have the same questions about some things.

What about Ananias and Sapphira?

Recently in Connecticut, a pastor stood in front of his church and confessed to the sin of adultery. Then the pastor fell down dead, right in front of everyone. This proves that God expects his people to live holy lives and if they don’t, he’ll kill them.

Of course, that’s complete nonsense. The story is true – a Connecticut pastor really did die – but the interpretation is all wrong. The fact is, God doesn’t treat us as our sins deserve. But what are we to make of Ananias and Sapphira who, like the poor pastor, dropped dead in a church (Acts 5:1-11)?

The bizarre deaths of Ananias and Sapphira have been debated for 2,000 years. Why did they die? Did God kill them? Why did God kill them? Why is this story in the Bible? Am I supposed to learn something from it? What? Will God kill me if I lie?

Questions like these have provided sermon material for countless fear-mongers. “God killed Ananias and Sapphira because they sinned and if you’re not careful he’ll kill you too! So fear God and behave yourself.” Has there ever been a more damnable lie inflicted on those whom God loves? (Actually, I can think of several worse lies.)

Unpunishable on account of Jesus

I could give you a hundred scriptures to show you that God did not kill Ananias and Sapphira for their sins and to assure you that he won’t kill you for yours, but three should suffice:

(God) doesn’t punish us as our sins deserve. (Psalm 103:10, CEV)

The punishment that brought us peace was on him… (Isa 53:5b)

God is not counting people’s sins against them. (2 Cor 5:19b)

The very good news of Jesus is that your sins and my sins and the sins of that Connecticut pastor and the sins of Ananias and Sapphira were condemned on the cross and there is nothing left to condemn! God was angry with your sins, which is why he poured out his wrath and dealt with them once and for all at Calvary (Rom 8:3).

Those who accuse God of killing sinners are confused about the cross. God doesn’t kill sinners, he saves sinners. God doesn’t hate sinners, he loves them!

But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (Rom 5:8)

If God killed Ananias and Sapphira then the Bible is wrong and Jesus is not the Lamb of God who carried the sins of the world. (If you’re wondering about Herod, read this.)

There’s no shortage of sinners in this world. Why would God kill one couple and leave the rest alone?
I’ve heard it said that God killed Ananias and Sapphira to warn and purify the infant church. By making an example out of these hypocrites, the church would be filled with a holy fear and kept safe from liars and cheats. If so, then God failed spectacularly. Liars, cheats and hypocrites have always been with us, and there were plenty in the New Testament church.

I’ve also heard it said that God set up this killing to establish the authority of his apostles. Never mind that Peter had been commissioned by the Lord and filled with the Holy Spirit. Like a kid going through a gangster initiation he had to kill someone to establish his bona fides. How absurd! How utterly inconsistent with the message Peter had been commissioned to preach.

Meanwhile back in Connecticut

People sometimes ask me, “Did God kill Ananias and Sapphira?” When I reply in the negative I am invariably asked, “So who did?” as though there was some murder mystery to be solved. But the facts of their deaths may be more prosaic.

The pastor in Connecticut died from a sudden heart failure, which is very sad. Perhaps it was the stress of hiding a lie or losing his reputation that triggered the attack. At the time of his death there was speculation in the press that he didn’t plan to confess at all – the adultery was a long time ago – but he had been ambushed by church members who had heard about his affair. Emotions were running high. There was shouting. The man died. Whatever happened, it’s a sad story.

But I am struck by the similarities between the Connecticut story and the deaths of Ananias and Sapphira:


  • By having a secret affair, you could argue that the pastor lied to his church and he lied to God, as did Ananias and Sapphira.


  • The pastor was confronted by church members, as were Ananias and Sapphira.


  • The pastor dropped down dead, just like Ananias and Sapphira.

As far as I know, no one is blaming God for the pastor’s death, so why would anyone blame him for the deaths of Ananias and Sapphira? If you must blame someone, blame sin. Sin kills people. Sin ruins marriages and destroys lives. Sin is bad.

And this is exactly why Jesus came – so that you might be free from the curse of sin and live. If there is any takeaway from the Ananias and Sapphira story, it’s that the wages of sin is death. That’s the bad news. But the good news is that God is good, he doesn’t treat you as your sins deserve, and he freely gives life to sinners.

That’s the gospel of Jesus that we all need to hear!

Here is the link below if anyone is interested in looking at the questions. We have a great salvation in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection.

https://escapetoreality.org/2015/04/09/what-about-ananias-and-sapphira/

This is good. In light of the Cross, I'm sure that God is not in the business of killing His children. Ananias and Sapphira were not saved. How could they be? It would mean God is still dealing with us according to our sins. And because of Christ., we are no longer condemned with the world.

Also, anytime I read anything that causes doubt about God's love for me I know it is not to be believed. God's love in Christ for me is unconditional. It is the devil who kills, steals and destroys... not my heavenly Father. He sent Jesus and Jesus gives life and that more abundantly. Those are the words I believe. I do not get the nature of God mixed up with that of the devil. To do so would be major confusion. And God is not the God of confusion.

God has not given us the spirit of fear.... but of power and love and a sound mind. So be encouraged that if you are confused and fearful., that is not of God.
 
Last edited:
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
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#10
Amen joaniemarie...well said.

This truth can cause the works-based mindsets to always view things to show punishment instead of the real gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 John 4:15-19 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.

[SUP]16 [/SUP] We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.

[SUP]17 [/SUP] By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.

[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#12
Post # 11 reported as it breaks the rules of CC asking for the stopping of bringing up banned terms because of the strife and division it causes. Unfortunately this post is doing the complete opposite of what has been asked by the mods.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/143507-hyper-grace-preachers-doctrine-cc.html

BUT maturity and not attacking those is what is needed. here is what we get when the "hyper grace" topic is brought up:

1. your not saved
2. attacks
3. false teacher
4. infraction submitted
5. request for account to be closed
6. name calling
7. "hyper grace" brought into every post when not even the topic of origin

I have given you 7 reasons why this topic is not good for CC Thread and I have yet to find one reason for it.
Admin and the moderators will no longer allow this to continue . And appropriate action will be taken if a member or guest starts a topic on "hyper grace " or Preachers who teach it. remember those who attack each other many of them call themselves christians yet we eat and devour each other. enough is enough. I am not going to dress you personally at this time... You have an opportunity to let it go or CC Admin and Moderators will take action.

God bless,

very respectfully,

CS1
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#13

The Christian is no longer judged with the world. He has escaped that because of Christ and the gift of His righteousness given and received as a gift. Once a believer learns about this kind of love of God in Christ., they are aware that there is no condemnation coming from God anymore. Jesus paid for 100% all the punishment and wrath of God when He died on the cross. We now are no longer trying to gain God's approval because in Jesus we already have it.

God is no longer judging us like the world. We are bought with a price and are learning to walk out our salvation.
Whenever we read verses we must see them in light of the love and grace of God in Christ. The sowing and reaping is a spiritual law and deals with how a person uses their finances. It's a principle in Scripture. What we sow into is what we will reap the benefits of.
1 Peter 4:17
New International Version
For it is time for judgment to begin with God's household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

New Living Translation
For the time has come for judgment, and it must begin with God's household. And if judgment begins with us, what terrible fate awaits those who have never obeyed God's Good News?

English Standard Version
For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

Berean Study Bible
For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who disobey the gospel of God?

Berean Literal Bible
For it is the time for the judgment to have begun from the house of God; and if from us first, what will be the outcome of those disobeying the gospel of God?

New American Standard Bible
For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

King James Bible
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For the time has come for judgment to begin with God's household, and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who disobey the gospel of God?

International Standard Version
For the time has come for judgment to begin with the household of God. And if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who refuse to obey the gospel of God?
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#14
The scripture in 1 Peter 4 about judgment in the house of God must come first is a beautiful promise of the sealing of God's people off before judgment comes.

1 Peter 4:17-18 (KJV)

[SUP]17 [/SUP] For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

[SUP]18 [/SUP] And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?


Peter was the apostle to the Hebrews and Peter being a good Jewish man would have heard this spoken off in the OT...

It is a hebraism ( expression ) from Ezekiel 9:4-6 in which they had set aside the jewish elders and marked them before judgment came..these ones were saved from the judgment....

In other words we get protected/marked by the Spirit of God before judgment comes ..but judgment starts at the house of God first by us being "marked"...that's the sign that judgment is coming to the ungodly as 1 Peter 4:17-18 says.

It's awesome!! it's a beautiful picture of us being sealed by the Holy Spirit.

We have a good, good Father! and a mighty salvation in Jesus our Lord!
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,641
6,276
113
#15
This is a known hypergrace site. Please quit spreading that doctrine.
yeah, let's stop talking about God's grace. let's just tell folks don't drink, don't cuss, don't sleep around, go to church, read your Bible, don't watch t.v. or r-rated movies, ............

because that old-school fire and brimstone really helped the world be a better place. but wait, was not the prevalent style that was being taught, when the hippie , free sex, etc......... started back in the 60's, which lead to the huge mess we have in the U.S. today. now I am not saying that hard preaching was responsible, but it sure did not stop it.
 
Mar 2, 2016
8,896
112
0
#16
Punishment is for the one offended....discipline is for teaching. I hate that word...punishment. I denotes a lack of emotional maturity. Do you punish your kids or do you discipline them? Punishment is a very thin line from abuse.
 
Dec 19, 2009
27,513
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#17
I propose this allegory as my point of view. I am
aware that not everyone would accept it but I have
not seen any other way that God punishes us while
we are alive.


I am walking through the wilderness, a place barren
and desolate. I have wandered and roamed for a
very long time and have lost my way. In the distance
I spot the glow of a fire burning. I walk towards it and
I begin to sense the warmth of the fire and slowly go
closer. Now I feel the warmth of the fire and others
are also there and for once in a very long time and I
take comfort from it. After a while complacency sets
in and I begin to wander away for short spells and
come back as I begin to get colder again. Then I
return to comfort again. Eventually I walk too far away
to come back and I am shrouded by pain and isolation.
For a while I kept turning to see the light until it grew
dim and out of sight. The warmth of the fire remained
but from lack of discipline I put myself into misery
again.
I think it depends on how you look at it. The Lord has created a world where if you love him with all your heart, mind, and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself, things will go well for you. Otherwise, not so much.

So when I sin, things don’t go so well for me. Is the Lord punishing me or am I punishing myself?
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#18
I propose this allegory as my point of view. I am
aware that not everyone would accept it but I have
not seen any other way that God punishes us while
we are alive.


I am walking through the wilderness, a place barren
and desolate. I have wandered and roamed for a
very long time and have lost my way. In the distance
I spot the glow of a fire burning. I walk towards it and
I begin to sense the warmth of the fire and slowly go
closer. Now I feel the warmth of the fire and others
are also there and for once in a very long time and I
take comfort from it. After a while complacency sets
in and I begin to wander away for short spells and
come back as I begin to get colder again. Then I
return to comfort again. Eventually I walk too far away
to come back and I am shrouded by pain and isolation.
For a while I kept turning to see the light until it grew
dim and out of sight. The warmth of the fire remained
but from lack of discipline I put myself into misery
again.
And this is the way God sees it:
[h=1]Psalm23[/h][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2 He makes me lie down in green pastures.
He leads me beside still waters.
3 He restores my soul.
He leads me in paths of righteousness
for his name's sake.[/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]4 Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil,
for you are with me;
your rod and your staff,
they comfort me.[/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]5 You prepare a table before me
in the presence of my enemies;
you anoint my head with oil;
my cup overflows.
6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me
all the days of my life,
and I shall dwell in the house of the Lord
forever.[/FONT]
[/FONT]
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
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#19
The scripture in 1 Peter 4 about judgment in the house of God must come first is a beautiful promise of the sealing of God's people off before judgment comes.

1 Peter 4:17-18 (KJV)

[SUP]17 [/SUP] For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

[SUP]18 [/SUP] And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?


Peter was the apostle to the Hebrews and Peter being a good Jewish man would have heard this spoken off in the OT...

It is a hebraism ( expression ) from Ezekiel 9:4-6 in which they had set aside the jewish elders and marked them before judgment came..these ones were saved from the judgment....

In other words we get protected/marked by the Spirit of God before judgment comes ..but judgment starts at the house of God first by us being "marked"...that's the sign that judgment is coming to the ungodly as 1 Peter 4:17-18 says.

It's awesome!! it's a beautiful picture of us being sealed by the Holy Spirit.

We have a good, good Father! and a mighty salvation in Jesus our Lord!
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
17. Another ground of consolation to Christians. All must pass under the judgment of God; God's own household first, their chastisement being here, for which they should glorify Him as a proof of their membership in His family, and a pledge of their escape from the end of those whom the last judgment shall find disobedient to the Gospel.the time—Greek, "season," "fit time."judgment must begin at the house of God—the Church of living believers. Peter has in mind Eze 9:6; compare Am 3:2; Jer 25:29. Judgment is already begun, the Gospel word, as a "two-edged sword," having the double effect of saving some and condemning others, and shall be consummated at the last judgment. "When power is given to the destroyer, he observes no distinction between the righteous and the wicked; not only so, but he begins first at the righteous" [Wetstein from Rabbins]. But God limits the destroyer's power over His people.if … at us, what shall the end be of them, &c.—If even the godly have chastening judgments now, how much more shall the ungodly be doomed to damnatory judgments at last.

Don't you ever read a commentary? I go to them all the time.

"out of the mouths of two or three witnesses let every word be established."

I usually check with at least 3 commentaries to see if they agree.

Some seem to be taught to put their own twist on scripture, as if it's acceptable to God.
:rolleyes:
 
Mar 2, 2016
8,896
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#20
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
17. Another ground of consolation to Christians. All must pass under the judgment of God; God's own household first, their chastisement being here, for which they should glorify Him as a proof of their membership in His family, and a pledge of their escape from the end of those whom the last judgment shall find disobedient to the Gospel.the time—Greek, "season," "fit time."judgment must begin at the house of God—the Church of living believers. Peter has in mind Eze 9:6; compare Am 3:2; Jer 25:29. Judgment is already begun, the Gospel word, as a "two-edged sword," having the double effect of saving some and condemning others, and shall be consummated at the last judgment. "When power is given to the destroyer, he observes no distinction between the righteous and the wicked; not only so, but he begins first at the righteous" [Wetstein from Rabbins]. But God limits the destroyer's power over His people.if … at us, what shall the end be of them, &c.—If even the godly have chastening judgments now, how much more shall the ungodly be doomed to damnatory judgments at last.

Don't you ever read a commentary? I go to them all the time.

"out of the mouths of two or three witnesses let every word be established."

I usually check with at least 3 commentaries to see if they agree.

Some seem to be taught to put their own twist on scripture, as if it's acceptable to God.
:rolleyes:
Ya...I wonder how many of the translators decided to do the same. Surely nobody ever did that down thru the ages.