The meaning of "Abstain from all appearances of evil"

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M

Melvainyo

Guest
#1
#1
I have been having a discussion with a friend about Christian Youth Groups using worldly activities to attract the youth. Here is what she believes…

“The world looks at us and sees that we have a safe place for their kids also to come and join—then they find out that Christians are not as “stiff-necked” as they once thought. Because of this outreach, they are more likely to come in for our services and Bible studies…the dances the church uses are probably simply just outreaches that can be used to bring in the youth. Once the youth see that the church is a fun and safe place, they are more likely to join our Sunday Schools, Youth groups, Bible studies, and eventually the Sunday services.”

Here’s what the Bible says…

Abstain from all appearances of evil.
1 Thessalonians 5:22

And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. Ephesians 5:11
If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world , the world would love his own; but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
John 15: 18-10

I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth.
Revelation 3:15-16

What do you think? I believe that we should not mix the world with God…

Thanks :)
 
S

socperkins

Guest
#2
#2
I think this is a personal decision that all Christians have to make, but I think those verses refer to "micro-sinning". It's not okay to say, "Well I'm just going to sin a little bit, it won't hurt", because as Galations 5:9 tells us, "A little leaven leavens the whole lump". Dancing is not a sin and neither is listening to music as long as they are done in a Christian-like way. As long as there is no bumping and grinding and the music glorifies God, an organized dance is a great idea.
 
S

sunshine_debbie

Guest
#3
#3
Well you dont specifically say what she wants to do for the youth to attract them. Some very devoted Christians believe in dancing and some rock music, some dont. Some Christians believe its ok to smoke and drink in moderation. Some dont. I think it is not our place to argue and judge and condemn. It is our job to pray, love, honor, respect, and obey God. So, if in Christ like love you disagree, then pray

Debbie
 
M

Melvainyo

Guest
#4
#4
Yeah... I should have been more specifiic. XD Sorry! haha But the dance was secular music with modern dancing. Flashing lights everywhere... ya know.. the works... I just dont think a CHRISTIAN youth group should be doing things like that...

If you simulate the world and it’s not recognizable as a Godly or a Christ like situation, then you are not truly separating yourself from the world. You may have 700 people at that Christian youth dance, and only 5 at a small Holy Ghost filled Bible study… but what group will God pour his blessings and his understanding upon? The one who prays and seeks God in spirit and in truth? Or the one seeking a fun time, imitating the world’s ways? The Bible clearly states not to get mixed up in the world at all. We are in the world, but not of the world. GOD’S WAYS ARE NOT MAN’S WAYS. Don’t fight the world with the worlds ways. Don’t try to fight Satan with Satan’s weapons, for he knows how to use them better. Fight the world with Gods ways.

God wants obedience and listeners of the word to spread the gospel, not those who bend to “attract” the world with sinful acts. Yes David danced, but modern dances are sensual and full of lust and sin. Tell me, what are men and women dancing for at those dances? God? Or for worldly pleasure? I’m sure David wasn’t dancing sensually before God…

Hard preaching I know… but if we change onle little thing to "attract" or "bend" to be like the world, then we might as well throw out the entire Bible. If we as Christian leaders, set an example to look and live like Christ, only then would the world see God through our ministry and plant roots in good, fertile soil.
Persecuted we will be… shunned we will be… hated we will be… but Jesus’s light will shine through us and reach those with a true desire to serve God.
 
S

socperkins

Guest
#5
#5
Melvainyo said:
Yeah... I should have been more specifiic. XD Sorry! haha But the dance was secular music with modern dancing. Flashing lights everywhere... ya know.. the works... I just dont think a CHRISTIAN youth group should be doing things like that...

If you simulate the world and it’s not recognizable as a Godly or a Christ like situation, then you are not truly separating yourself from the world. You may have 700 people at that Christian youth dance, and only 5 at a small Holy Ghost filled Bible study… but what group will God pour his blessings and his understanding upon? The one who prays and seeks God in spirit and in truth? Or the one seeking a fun time, imitating the world’s ways? The Bible clearly states not to get mixed up in the world at all. We are in the world, but not of the world. GOD’S WAYS ARE NOT MAN’S WAYS. Don’t fight the world with the worlds ways. Don’t try to fight Satan with Satan’s weapons, for he knows how to use them better. Fight the world with Gods ways.

God wants obedience and listeners of the word to spread the gospel, not those who bend to “attract” the world with sinful acts. Yes David danced, but modern dances are sensual and full of lust and sin. Tell me, what are men and women dancing for at those dances? God? Or for worldly pleasure? I’m sure David wasn’t dancing sensually before God…

Hard preaching I know… but if we change onle little thing to "attract" or "bend" to be like the world, then we might as well throw out the entire Bible. If we as Christian leaders, set an example to look and live like Christ, only then would the world see God through our ministry and plant roots in good, fertile soil.
Persecuted we will be… shunned we will be… hated we will be… but Jesus’s light will shine through us and reach those with a true desire to serve God.
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If it was a secular dance in a Christian setting than I don't agree with it for all the reasons you've said. I can't say much other than that though because I wasn't very hip in my backwoods high school, so I'm not sure exactly what a "dance" entails other than what I've seen in teen movies.
 
A

angelos

Guest
#6
#6
You are absolutely right what is the point of the dancing and all that if all it does is feed the flesh? As Christians we should walk in the spirit and shine. we show our light to the world so that they can see for they are blind. we are sons and daughters of God, we should as much like as we can not accepting bits and pieces. If he is not Lord over all he is not Lord at all. If the world sees Christians acting the same as them then what difference is there? to them there is none and they will not see anything about Christ.
 
C

Consumed

Guest
#7
#7
thats the sad part, we think if we can make it look like the way the world does things, place Jesus name over the top, we called it blessed, however the moment we comprimise , we just have paretaken in evil and deceive ourselves
 
M

Melvainyo

Guest
#8
#8
Thanks guys! :) Lord Bless ya!
 
L

Lauren

Guest
#9
#9
Consumed said:
thats the sad part, we think if we can make it look like the way the world does things, place Jesus name over the top, we called it blessed, however the moment we comprimise , we just have paretaken in evil and deceive ourselves
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Good post. I've been guilty of thinking that if I make the Gospel more palatable that people will be more accepting of it, but the truth is, it's the Holy Spirit that moves on a person and opens their eyes to the Truth, and I need to be obedient to that, not try to do it the way I think is right.
 
superdave5221

superdave5221

Senior Member
#10
Jul 28, 2009
1,409
31
48
#10
Melvainyo said:
I have been having a discussion with a friend about Christian Youth Groups using worldly activities to attract the youth. Here is what she believes…

“The world looks at us and sees that we have a safe place for their kids also to come and join—then they find out that Christians are not as “stiff-necked” as they once thought. Because of this outreach, they are more likely to come in for our services and Bible studies…the dances the church uses are probably simply just outreaches that can be used to bring in the youth. Once the youth see that the church is a fun and safe place, they are more likely to join our Sunday Schools, Youth groups, Bible studies, and eventually the Sunday services.”

Here’s what the Bible says…

Abstain from all appearances of evil.
1 Thessalonians 5:22

And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. Ephesians 5:11
If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world , the world would love his own; but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
John 15: 18-10

I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth.
Revelation 3:15-16

What do you think? I believe that we should not mix the world with God…

Thanks :)
Click to expand...
This particular verse represents one of the shortcomings of the KJV, which, although a great translation for it's time, did not have the older, more accurate manuscripts such as the Vatican (Codex B), or the Sinaitic (Codex Aleph), to work with. A more correct rendering of the Greek in this case would be "Abstain from every form of evil".
 
M

Melvainyo

Guest
#11
#11
What Bible is most like the original? I have just grown up with King James so it is the one I like to use.
 
A

angelos

Guest
#12
#12
Melvainyo said:
What Bible is most like the original? I have just grown up with King James so it is the one I like to use.
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Thats a hard question and a lot of it is personal opinion. I've been told the one most scholars use is the Oxford NRSV. Hope that helps
 
A

angelos

Guest
#13
#13
Lauren said:
Good post. I've been guilty of thinking that if I make the Gospel more palatable that people will be more accepting of it, but the truth is, it's the Holy Spirit that moves on a person and opens their eyes to the Truth, and I need to be obedient to that, not try to do it the way I think is right.
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Amen. We cannot conform the Gospel to the worlds standards and glorify Jesus. We can pray that the holy spirit will give us wisdom and the words to preach to the darkness. Shine your light and God bless you
 
superdave5221

superdave5221

Senior Member
#15
Jul 28, 2009
1,409
31
48
#15
Melvainyo said:
What Bible is most like the original? I have just grown up with King James so it is the one I like to use.
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Rules of textual criticism provides standards to determine those translations that are the most like the original. These rules state that translations using source manuscripts, (in the original language), that are closer in time to the autographs are likely to be more accurate. The uncial manuscripts that I mentioned were not available to the KJV translators and are at least a century older than those that were available, making them more accurate according to textual criticism standards. These standards have been painstakingly developed over time and have proven to be of great worth in determining the original writings, whether religious, or secular in nature.

In addition, many of the English words in the original KJV have changed meaning over the centuries, making them obsolete or misleading to those accustomed to present day language usage. These later versions have attempted to alleviate that problem. This is, I would think to be desired, however, the KJV is not likely to lead one astray who diligently studies it, along with outside sources, under the guidance of prayer and the influence of the Holy Spirit.
 
M

Melvainyo

Guest
#16
#16
Good advice Super Dave.
 
K

karuna

Guest
#17
#17
If we're so worried about people thinking we're dancing, what about avoiding the appearance of being haughty, legalistic, etc.? Focusing on external forms of evil misses one of the main criticism of Christians by the disbelieving, that we're no better on the inside, if we're not simply worse.

Skipping a dance doesn't mean you're not lukewarm. It may, in fact, be a form of arrogance. It does appear that you're using it to bolster your own image.
 
M

Melvainyo

Guest
#18
#18
Im not arrogant, I fear God. I dont judge those who go to those dances, I simply think that we should be more careful when labeling a worldly dance as a "Christian" event. We are Gods children, he doesnt want us looking like the world. We must lead good examples.

This way of “attracting the youth” is not good. When the people want to hear about Jesus, GIVE THEM JESUS… not the world. If kids going to those parties are just going for the loud music and flashing lights, then they might as well go to the local club for the same show.

Where fore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance. But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; because it is written, BE ye Holy; for I am Holy.
1 Peter 1:13-16
 
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karuna

Guest
#19
#19
Melvainyo said:
Im not arrogant, I fear God.
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There's really no other way you could have responded - of course you don't believe you're being arrogant. If I didn't anticipate this, I wouldn't have had any reason to write!

I dont judge those who go to those dances, I simply think that we should be more careful when labeling a worldly dance as a "Christian" event.
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Nah. You may choose to portray your intent this way now, but let's take a careful look at what you wrote:

God wants obedience and listeners of the word to spread the gospel, not those who bend to “attract” the world with sinful acts.

And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

But the dance was secular music with modern dancing <...> modern dances are sensual and full of lust and sin.

This way of “attracting the youth” is not good.
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Let's call a spade a spade - you've decided that they're full of lust and sin and should be reproved.

We are Gods children, he doesnt want us looking like the world. We must lead good examples.
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The idea you're missing is that, when you put so much effort into wagging your finger, you look like the world. The world is not just characterized by humping to loud music - back in Jesus' time and place, it was more popular to be overly pious. You're doing a perfect impression.
 
K

karuna

Guest
#20
#20
Melvainyo said:
You may have 700 people at that Christian youth dance, and only 5 at a small Holy Ghost filled Bible study&#8230; but what group will God pour his blessings and his understanding upon? The one who prays and seeks God in spirit and in truth? Or the one seeking a fun time, imitating the world&#8217;s ways?
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I will point out that God knocked Saul off a horse during his persecution of the church which, I think we can agree, is much worse than any dance.

If you think you can induce God's blessings and understanding, you're practicing magic, not faith.

The correct answer is: whomever he pleases to pour them out on.
 
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