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No, because that's not what the Bible says.
It says,
[FONT="]16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”[/FONT]
It says,
[FONT="]16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”[/FONT]
I don't consider myself to be a Calvinist, I do believe in the Biblical doctrine of God choosing/electing/calling people to salvation/ministry/nations/individuals/Christ, because of His will and good pleasure. The Bible already says that He loves them, in the overall context of the Bible. It might not say it in a verse, but a reading of the word of God in it's overall context and you will find verses that say those things.
But buying a Bible that was not translated right, it would not be something I would buy
But buying a Bible that was not translated right, it would not be something I would buy
Good question. I was stuck in calvinism or reformed theology for a long while.
And I twisted the Word to make it say that anyway. It's nuts thinking back on it. We would all get into our bible study and pound the table on election and predestination and God's Sovereignty chooses people for salvation or hell. Doesn't matter what you tell a person about Christ, they are predestined to believe or they are not.
And you know what? I had to hide what I really believed when I was face to face with unbelievers and the majority of people I was around.
If what I believed was true. I should have been able to go up to ANYBODY and tell them.........your either safe or your going to hell. you will find out at some point in this life if your the elect. If not you were destined for the LoF and there wasn't a thing you could have done about it.
I don't know what wants to make me puke more. calvinism/reformed theology or loss of salvation.
And I twisted the Word to make it say that anyway. It's nuts thinking back on it. We would all get into our bible study and pound the table on election and predestination and God's Sovereignty chooses people for salvation or hell. Doesn't matter what you tell a person about Christ, they are predestined to believe or they are not.
And you know what? I had to hide what I really believed when I was face to face with unbelievers and the majority of people I was around.
If what I believed was true. I should have been able to go up to ANYBODY and tell them.........your either safe or your going to hell. you will find out at some point in this life if your the elect. If not you were destined for the LoF and there wasn't a thing you could have done about it.
I don't know what wants to make me puke more. calvinism/reformed theology or loss of salvation.
That's not Calvinism or Reformed, that hyper-calvinism, which is unbiblical. The bible clearly states that we need to evangelize and knowing about people being chosen by God caused Paul to stay in Corinth for another year and a half. Double predestination is unbiblical, God doesn't have to predestine people to hell they're already going there because of there sin. The Church is referred to as the bride of Christ. Why are men allowed to chose their bride, but have a problem with Christ choosing His wife? Evangelism isn't base on man chose on who to talk to about Christ or who not to talk to about Christ. We evangelize and those appointed to eternal life will believe.
Act 13:48 "Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed."
Acts 18:9-11 "Now the Lord spoke to Paul in the night by a vision, “Do not be afraid, but speak, and do not keep silent;for I am with you, and no one will attack you to hurt you; for I have many people in this city.” And he continued there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them."
I don't understand why you would hide being a Christian, because God choses who's going to be saved? It actually frees one up to evangelize and not worry about results, because it not dependent on you. That why you never see an alter call in the Bible, because God bring people to eternal life and the people cry out to the preacher "what must we do to be saved".
I'm wondering how your evangelizing is going now that you are responsible for people to come to know God?
Act 13:48 "Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed."
Acts 18:9-11 "Now the Lord spoke to Paul in the night by a vision, “Do not be afraid, but speak, and do not keep silent;for I am with you, and no one will attack you to hurt you; for I have many people in this city.” And he continued there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them."
I don't understand why you would hide being a Christian, because God choses who's going to be saved? It actually frees one up to evangelize and not worry about results, because it not dependent on you. That why you never see an alter call in the Bible, because God bring people to eternal life and the people cry out to the preacher "what must we do to be saved".
I'm wondering how your evangelizing is going now that you are responsible for people to come to know God?
Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
1Ti 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
1Ti 2:2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Luk 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation.
God had the plan to give mankind salvation in the beginning,before He laid down the foundation of the world,so it is the same as if the saints have that salvation in the beginning,like the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world,although it did not happen until 4000 years later,and this salvation is to whoever wants that salvation,for God wants all people to come to repentance,and be saved.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
Many are called,but few are chosen,which God does the calling on earth,and chooses on earth,for if God chose in the beginning who would be saved without their input,why would He be calling people that have no chance to be saved,for many are called,but few are chosen,and how would He call in the beginning,but not choose all them.
God gets the glory for us being saved,for no man comes to the Son except the Father draws them,and no person says Jesus is Lord but by the Holy Spirit,and will call people with the right heart condition,and will work with them to get them to the truth,but when we get to the door we have to push it open by accepting the truth,but without God interceding in our life we would of not made it to accept the truth.
If God chooses who will be saved in the beginning without their input,then God's kingdom is not true love,because they have no choice but to follow God,seeing no other alternative,and if that was the case then God would of created humans without a choice but only to acknowledge Him,and nobody would be lost,for why would God create people,and choose some to be saved,and some not to be saved,which they have no choice,and have them go through all the things on earth,if the kingdom is no choice anyway,when He could of created them to be with Him from the start with no choice,for the result would of been the same.
God gave the angels a choice,and some rebelled,for Lucifer was created perfect in his ways,until iniquity was found in him,for God did not choose which angels would stay with Him,but it was their choice,and people have a choice,because God's kingdom is true love.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
1Ti 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
1Ti 2:2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Luk 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation.
God had the plan to give mankind salvation in the beginning,before He laid down the foundation of the world,so it is the same as if the saints have that salvation in the beginning,like the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world,although it did not happen until 4000 years later,and this salvation is to whoever wants that salvation,for God wants all people to come to repentance,and be saved.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
Many are called,but few are chosen,which God does the calling on earth,and chooses on earth,for if God chose in the beginning who would be saved without their input,why would He be calling people that have no chance to be saved,for many are called,but few are chosen,and how would He call in the beginning,but not choose all them.
God gets the glory for us being saved,for no man comes to the Son except the Father draws them,and no person says Jesus is Lord but by the Holy Spirit,and will call people with the right heart condition,and will work with them to get them to the truth,but when we get to the door we have to push it open by accepting the truth,but without God interceding in our life we would of not made it to accept the truth.
If God chooses who will be saved in the beginning without their input,then God's kingdom is not true love,because they have no choice but to follow God,seeing no other alternative,and if that was the case then God would of created humans without a choice but only to acknowledge Him,and nobody would be lost,for why would God create people,and choose some to be saved,and some not to be saved,which they have no choice,and have them go through all the things on earth,if the kingdom is no choice anyway,when He could of created them to be with Him from the start with no choice,for the result would of been the same.
God gave the angels a choice,and some rebelled,for Lucifer was created perfect in his ways,until iniquity was found in him,for God did not choose which angels would stay with Him,but it was their choice,and people have a choice,because God's kingdom is true love.
I thought I would share this with you, the reason for studying the Bible is to be indoctrinated, because we all have doctrine, we're all theologians. I don't think believing election for salvation is a prerequisite for being saved by having eternal life. I also don't think it over rides anything that we are to do as disciples. I really am interested to hear what you believe now.
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Rom 9:15
The word “as many” aids in helping us to understand that when the books are opened as many of the names that were written in the lambs book of life from the foundation of the world they will come when he calls. Not one more or one less.
I think part of the difference comes when men insist they have a part in salvation as in we chose Him rather than Him us.
In John we are informed that as many that have received Christ, received Him because He gave them the living authority to come, which is not of us in any way shape or form. Being dead in ones trespasses and sin without hope and without God .The call is a effectual call with no qualifier on our part..
A good example would be with Lazarus dead for days unable to respond until he hears the words as Christ gives him the ears to hear what the Spirit says .Lazarus come forth .
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
cts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.
As many as He does call in no way will He cast them out.
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Not one more or one less. The call is not a query . Do you want to be saved ?
Again it is effectual. Being of one mind He always does whatsoever His soul pleases, He performs that which is appointed to us . It is Christ who does soften our hearts, taking the stone heart He freely with no cost on our behalf create in us a new heart of flesh .This is as He works in to both will and do His good pleasure..(imputed righteousness)
If He has begun the good work of salvation in us He will finish it to the very end. He is our confidence, we are to have no confidence of the flesh (the will of man) .Not as we will but as he does.
The word “as many” aids in helping us to understand that when the books are opened as many of the names that were written in the lambs book of life from the foundation of the world they will come when he calls. Not one more or one less.
I think part of the difference comes when men insist they have a part in salvation as in we chose Him rather than Him us.
In John we are informed that as many that have received Christ, received Him because He gave them the living authority to come, which is not of us in any way shape or form. Being dead in ones trespasses and sin without hope and without God .The call is a effectual call with no qualifier on our part..
A good example would be with Lazarus dead for days unable to respond until he hears the words as Christ gives him the ears to hear what the Spirit says .Lazarus come forth .
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
cts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.
As many as He does call in no way will He cast them out.
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Not one more or one less. The call is not a query . Do you want to be saved ?
Again it is effectual. Being of one mind He always does whatsoever His soul pleases, He performs that which is appointed to us . It is Christ who does soften our hearts, taking the stone heart He freely with no cost on our behalf create in us a new heart of flesh .This is as He works in to both will and do His good pleasure..(imputed righteousness)
If He has begun the good work of salvation in us He will finish it to the very end. He is our confidence, we are to have no confidence of the flesh (the will of man) .Not as we will but as he does.
The trouble with predestination, at least the one that folks hold to, is that there's too many "whosoevers" in scripture, including Jesus' sayings that totally destroy it.
If people read their Bibles, & prayed before they did, we wouldn't have these problems.
If people read their Bibles, & prayed before they did, we wouldn't have these problems.
God's preconceived plan is right here:
John 3:14“As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15so thatwhoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19“This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20“For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21“But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”
I didn't see "He who is chosen" anywhere.
Does God foreknow who does? Yes. He knows the end from the beginning.
How else could you define "many are called, but few are chosen"?
The topical searching that folks choose to do when reading their Bibles is a stumbling block to the church. It leads to all kind of false doctrine, for they don't possess all the facts before concluding what the truth is.
A true seeker seeks it all out..... not just the favorite parts.
John 3:14“As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15so thatwhoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19“This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20“For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21“But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”
I didn't see "He who is chosen" anywhere.
Does God foreknow who does? Yes. He knows the end from the beginning.
How else could you define "many are called, but few are chosen"?
The topical searching that folks choose to do when reading their Bibles is a stumbling block to the church. It leads to all kind of false doctrine, for they don't possess all the facts before concluding what the truth is.
A true seeker seeks it all out..... not just the favorite parts.