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two great ideas, there
if someone has a bible and chooses not to use it in any way, I'd say there's a serious spiritual problem.
if one doesn't have a bible, like Adam didn't
(or anyone up til, say, Moses)
then God can communicate through other ways, like spoken language.
Enoch walked with God... wow!
if someone has a bible and chooses not to use it in any way, I'd say there's a serious spiritual problem.
if one doesn't have a bible, like Adam didn't
(or anyone up til, say, Moses)
then God can communicate through other ways, like spoken language.
Enoch walked with God... wow!
K
So are we saying we dont need the Bible to saved? But we do need the Bible grow. Lets narrow the discussion. I believe that people have been saved without an actual Bible in their hand.But I do think the Bible is integral to the Christian life. Hand in glove so to speak. I believe that God is the Word and you cannot separate the two.I dont believe the Bible contains Gods words I believe He is the Word. And I believe the Bible to be infallible. Do we agree on that much?
LANGUAGE:
My point about language was just in GENERAL TERMS, not specifically about "spoken" language.
My point was that God is going to primarily communicate with us through human language (especially in his more complex concepts) because God specifically created language with the PURPOSE of communicating with him.
HUMAN INSTRUMENTS:
Since God is currently using human instruments (the body of christ) as his hands, feet, and mouth... God will mostly likely send a HUMAN PREACHER when people are ready to hear.
Although the world contains many "people groups" without the bible translated into their language,
I doubt there are many people groups without access to people who DO have the bible.
It's probably a fair guess that most remote people groups at least have access to people who DO have the bible.
Although we DO need to keep sending missionaries to remote places, I think that currently...
we probably have far more pagans in New York and Paris than we have in New Guinea.
R
I agree that you don't need to believe every single thing the Bible says to be a Christian. All that is necessary to be a Christian is to believe in Jesus. However, part of being a Christian is rejecting sin. How would we know what sin was if we didn't have God and His word? Yes, God has written His word on our hearts. But our sinful selves make it hard for us to discern what is sin and what is not. Maybe deep down we know, but how many people can say they have never had to question whether something is a sin or not? Reading the Bible can help us differentiate sin from righteousness.
If we believe some things in the Bible but not others, then we're saying the Bible is inaccurate in some cases but not others. In that case, how do we know God exists or that we're saved through faith in Christ alone?
Some things are hard to accept, and not believing everything doesn't mean you're not a Christian. But if one finds something is hard to accept, then one should study it. Often, one is either misinterpreting or missing some important context. For instance, the article mentions not believing that slaves should submit to the cruelty of their masters. It doesn't mention that slavery back then wasn't slavery as we know it today. Slaves among the Israelites were either taken in war or indentured servants. They were given legal rights to protect them from the cruelty of their masters. Those taken in war could convert and, in that case, they were to be given all the rights a fellow Israelite was to be given.
Anyway, the point I'm trying to get at is that disagreeing with a verse doesn't mean you're not a Christian, but it does mean you should look further into the matter. And as one grows in God, one will learn to accept more and more of His teachings.
If we believe some things in the Bible but not others, then we're saying the Bible is inaccurate in some cases but not others. In that case, how do we know God exists or that we're saved through faith in Christ alone?
Some things are hard to accept, and not believing everything doesn't mean you're not a Christian. But if one finds something is hard to accept, then one should study it. Often, one is either misinterpreting or missing some important context. For instance, the article mentions not believing that slaves should submit to the cruelty of their masters. It doesn't mention that slavery back then wasn't slavery as we know it today. Slaves among the Israelites were either taken in war or indentured servants. They were given legal rights to protect them from the cruelty of their masters. Those taken in war could convert and, in that case, they were to be given all the rights a fellow Israelite was to be given.
Anyway, the point I'm trying to get at is that disagreeing with a verse doesn't mean you're not a Christian, but it does mean you should look further into the matter. And as one grows in God, one will learn to accept more and more of His teachings.
Yeah I kinda agree with you. I mean like, while its Christ that save us and not a book, the story of our salvation through Him is recorded in that book, so any work at all to discredit it is working against Christ.
I wouldnt trust anyone that claimed to be of Christ, but told you not to believe in the Bible.
I wouldnt trust anyone that claimed to be of Christ, but told you not to believe in the Bible.
I was reading the Bible before I was saved. I didn't understand a word of it. It took God saving me, and giving me the Holy Spirit, to understand the message I had been reading. But that only took one day! The day after I got saved, I picked up the Bible, and I knew it was about Jesus.
Because the Bible is the revelation of Jesus Christ, from start to finish!
So I although I read the bible, it didn't teach me or save me! Although, I had a lot of Bible verses in my heart from Sunday School days which certainly was the Word of God not returning void! BUT, once I was saved, itwas my food and my drink and my guidance and comfort and refuge. It helped me grow, it taught me, because I had the Holy Spirit, combined with the Word, which is always the perfect combination.
The problem with this person in the article with this website, is they are re-writing the Bible, and hence God in their own image. The Bible says homosexuality is wrong, and this person is homosexual, doesn't want to repent or change, so he rejects what he doesn't like, and changes it to suit his whims, philosophies and every capricious wind of change!
And God never meant the Bible to be a document that reveals Christ, without revealing his plan for our lives. He never made it an option to only read the things we like, and rip the other things out of our Bible.
I know there have been things in the Bible I didn't like the first time I noticed them. (After the Holy Spirit quickened them to my heart - I didn't notice the first few times I read it!). I remember arguing with God, that maybe this thing, or another, didn't apply to me. Well, that wonderful witness of the Holy Spirit told me it wasn't about my feelings, or my desires, or my preconceptions about what I thought the Bible should say. It was about what the Bible DID say!
There have been many good posts here, including Scriptures on the importance of the Word of God. Some people seem to think, we only need to "walk in the Spirit" who will teach us everything, and not worry about the written word. Funny thing, those are always people who have been reading the Bible for years and years and years.
In other words, it is great to let the Spirit guide you, when you know and understand the Bible. It's words are written on our hearts, because we have studied to show ourselves as workers approved. Then, we are free to follow God, knowing his expectations and path for us.
"Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth." 2 Tim. 2:15
But beware telling a new Christian all they need is the Holy Spirit. God has planned it so we do have the word, now!
And regardless of all these ridiculous posts treating the Roman Empire like it was some kind of primitive third world country, they had all of the OT and a lot of the New Testament. The early church had much of the New Testament starting as early as the 40's, only 10 or 15 years after Jesus' death. Galatians was written early in the 40's. References to the Jerusalem famine, and Paul collecting money to help from the various congregations in Asia Minor, happened between AD 44-46. All Jewish boys learned to not only read and write in the synagogues, but also to memorize huge portions of the Old Testament. Which is something all the Jews had. And the Greeks and Romans prided themselves on literacy. What garbage to say the early church didn't have the Bible!
So, I completely reject the website mentioned in the OP. The Bible is the foundation of how we walk with Christ, once we know him. God's plan doesn't change, nor can we throw out parts we don't like. Probably a lot of people feel like this man who is "unfundamental" and it has caused them to stumble, or even fall.
I cannot stress enough the important of reading the Bible, studying without helps, and if anyone needs encouragement in this, please send me a pm, and I would love to help you learn to read the whole Bible, and how to apply it to your life!
Because the Bible is the revelation of Jesus Christ, from start to finish!
So I although I read the bible, it didn't teach me or save me! Although, I had a lot of Bible verses in my heart from Sunday School days which certainly was the Word of God not returning void! BUT, once I was saved, itwas my food and my drink and my guidance and comfort and refuge. It helped me grow, it taught me, because I had the Holy Spirit, combined with the Word, which is always the perfect combination.
The problem with this person in the article with this website, is they are re-writing the Bible, and hence God in their own image. The Bible says homosexuality is wrong, and this person is homosexual, doesn't want to repent or change, so he rejects what he doesn't like, and changes it to suit his whims, philosophies and every capricious wind of change!
And God never meant the Bible to be a document that reveals Christ, without revealing his plan for our lives. He never made it an option to only read the things we like, and rip the other things out of our Bible.
I know there have been things in the Bible I didn't like the first time I noticed them. (After the Holy Spirit quickened them to my heart - I didn't notice the first few times I read it!). I remember arguing with God, that maybe this thing, or another, didn't apply to me. Well, that wonderful witness of the Holy Spirit told me it wasn't about my feelings, or my desires, or my preconceptions about what I thought the Bible should say. It was about what the Bible DID say!
There have been many good posts here, including Scriptures on the importance of the Word of God. Some people seem to think, we only need to "walk in the Spirit" who will teach us everything, and not worry about the written word. Funny thing, those are always people who have been reading the Bible for years and years and years.
In other words, it is great to let the Spirit guide you, when you know and understand the Bible. It's words are written on our hearts, because we have studied to show ourselves as workers approved. Then, we are free to follow God, knowing his expectations and path for us.
"Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth." 2 Tim. 2:15
But beware telling a new Christian all they need is the Holy Spirit. God has planned it so we do have the word, now!
And regardless of all these ridiculous posts treating the Roman Empire like it was some kind of primitive third world country, they had all of the OT and a lot of the New Testament. The early church had much of the New Testament starting as early as the 40's, only 10 or 15 years after Jesus' death. Galatians was written early in the 40's. References to the Jerusalem famine, and Paul collecting money to help from the various congregations in Asia Minor, happened between AD 44-46. All Jewish boys learned to not only read and write in the synagogues, but also to memorize huge portions of the Old Testament. Which is something all the Jews had. And the Greeks and Romans prided themselves on literacy. What garbage to say the early church didn't have the Bible!
So, I completely reject the website mentioned in the OP. The Bible is the foundation of how we walk with Christ, once we know him. God's plan doesn't change, nor can we throw out parts we don't like. Probably a lot of people feel like this man who is "unfundamental" and it has caused them to stumble, or even fall.
I cannot stress enough the important of reading the Bible, studying without helps, and if anyone needs encouragement in this, please send me a pm, and I would love to help you learn to read the whole Bible, and how to apply it to your life!
I was thinking, where's Angela when you need her and here you are!!! I've been reading for years and years and find that there's always something new and fresh in God's word that either I've missed or now see a deeper spiritual truth than before.
Also, I've begun studying the word of God instead of just reading it and find there are so many jewels missed by reading only.
So to 2nd Angela's motion, get into God's word and begin studying it. It's food for the heart.
Paul tells Timothy, "You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them, and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus."
P
For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Wonder if this pertains to revelation only?
Wonder if this pertains to revelation only?
I think that the Bible is only meant as a guide book and PARENTS are supposed to teach their children the proper values to build a foundation on.
It may sound extreme but it seems that people that say that the Bible is necessary do so because they use it as part of a ritual,doesn't God advise against rituals and idolatry?
If you believe that the Bible is necessary to be a good decent person which I believe is all that God is asking for then you are probably also worshipping dead saints,isn't that idolatry?
It's great that people take comfort from reading the Bible but I don't think that is supposed to be a crutch that supports you all of your life,if you use a crutch then your morals and beliefs may become atrophied look at the southern US it is home to what's called "the Bible belt" because there are so many self professed Christians there it is also one of the most racist places in the entire world.
Im no genius or saint ,I was just taught moral values by my parents so some situations where people are perplexed are a no brainer for me ,that's how it should be for everyone but it isn't because it's not being taught by the parents.
I could be wrong this is just what I've seen from not being part of society,I've sat back and watched it deteriorate.
It may sound extreme but it seems that people that say that the Bible is necessary do so because they use it as part of a ritual,doesn't God advise against rituals and idolatry?
If you believe that the Bible is necessary to be a good decent person which I believe is all that God is asking for then you are probably also worshipping dead saints,isn't that idolatry?
It's great that people take comfort from reading the Bible but I don't think that is supposed to be a crutch that supports you all of your life,if you use a crutch then your morals and beliefs may become atrophied look at the southern US it is home to what's called "the Bible belt" because there are so many self professed Christians there it is also one of the most racist places in the entire world.
Im no genius or saint ,I was just taught moral values by my parents so some situations where people are perplexed are a no brainer for me ,that's how it should be for everyone but it isn't because it's not being taught by the parents.
I could be wrong this is just what I've seen from not being part of society,I've sat back and watched it deteriorate.
Believing in the teachings and story of Jesus Christ, as recorded by His apostles, is idolatry?
Havent you ever played telephone? As time goes on, and as more and more people pass down the message, the message gets distorted and changed. Having a physical recording of it is clearly a smart way to hand down your message to someone.
Havent you ever played telephone? As time goes on, and as more and more people pass down the message, the message gets distorted and changed. Having a physical recording of it is clearly a smart way to hand down your message to someone.
P
New Living Translation
Study this Book of Instruction continually. Meditate on it day and night so you will be sure to obey everything written in it. Only then will you prosper and succeed in all you do.
Josh 1:8
Study this Book of Instruction continually. Meditate on it day and night so you will be sure to obey everything written in it. Only then will you prosper and succeed in all you do.
Josh 1:8
P
New Living Translation
Study this Book of Instruction continually. Meditate on it day and night so you will be sure to obey everything written in it. Only then will you prosper and succeed in all you do.
Josh 1:8
Study this Book of Instruction continually. Meditate on it day and night so you will be sure to obey everything written in it. Only then will you prosper and succeed in all you do.
Josh 1:8
I got saved without reading a bible or without really knowing much of anything or even being around religious people, as i walked, just believing in what had happened, and the truth of God certain things and events in my life started to happen, One big thing was the Holy Spirit was talking and speaking truth all the time, and i found myself saying and seeing things that lined up 100 percent with scripture. I believe a person does need a bible so that they can have better/ deeper understanding of what they have and who God is and who you are now... Its like a guide book.