How long can a Christian go without sinning?
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I think you are confusing temptation with sin maybe...a brief thought is not a sin. It becomes sin if you advert to the temptation. If my heart has a motion toward anger and I advert to it by running over in my head how rude someone was, how selfish they are, how I'm going to treat them when I see them again, I have adverted to it. If I refuse it and pray for the mercy and help I need, I do not advert to it.
But this takes practice to remember, and to walk in the Spirit and to pray always. Prayer is often few words. Much fewer than we think or are taught by watching other people pray aloud.
One man can pray a long prayer and yet another pray: Have mercy and help me, Lord - and the second man has often prayed more than the first man.
But this takes practice to remember, and to walk in the Spirit and to pray always. Prayer is often few words. Much fewer than we think or are taught by watching other people pray aloud.
One man can pray a long prayer and yet another pray: Have mercy and help me, Lord - and the second man has often prayed more than the first man.
I think you are confusing temptation with sin maybe...a brief thought is not a sin. It becomes sin if you advert to the temptation. If my heart has a motion toward anger and I advert to it by running over in my head how rude someone was, how selfish they are, how I'm going to treat them when I see them again, I have adverted to it. If I refuse it and pray for the mercy and help I need, I do not advert to it.
But this takes practice to remember, and to walk in the Spirit and to pray always. Prayer is often few words. Much fewer than we think or are taught by watching other people pray aloud. One man can pray a long prayer and yet another pray: Have mercy and help me, Lord - and the second man has often prayed more than the first man.
But this takes practice to remember, and to walk in the Spirit and to pray always. Prayer is often few words. Much fewer than we think or are taught by watching other people pray aloud.
One man can pray a long prayer and yet another pray: Have mercy and help me, Lord - and the second man has often prayed more than the first man.
I think you are confusing temptation with sin maybe...a brief thought is not a sin. It becomes sin if you advert to the temptation. If my heart has a motion toward anger and I advert to it by running over in my head how rude someone was, how selfish they are, how I'm going to treat them when I see them again, I have adverted to it. If I refuse it and pray for the mercy and help I need, I do not advert to it. But this takes practice to remember, and to walk in the Spirit and to pray always. Prayer is often few words. Much fewer than we think or are taught by watching other people pray aloud. One man can pray a long prayer and yet another pray: Have mercy and help me, Lord - and the second man has often prayed more than the first man.
One man can pray a long prayer and yet another pray: Have mercy and help me, Lord - and the second man has often prayed more than the first man.
There is an order to it.
Forgiveness comes first. Without it, who would be foolish enough to not fear approaching God??
Once the forgiveness is given and received, the Spirit is given and received and if we read and ask Him our questions and wait patiently, He will give us understanding. But men don't often do this. They go seek out men to teach them and some doctrines are wrong, some are not wrong but only deal with one extreme of a matter but not the other side of it and so there is an imbalance of understanding and it takes longer to work it out because they will just insist a man has already taught them the truth of the matter. So it becomes that men quench the Spirit and have a harder time getting further. They still get there eventually but have been hindered by other men.
Jesus said if we have anger in our heart at another, even if we don't shoot them, we have already murdered. So He begins to teach us that it is all about heart purity with Him, not how the outside looks to someone else. Society (and parents) teach us common decency and respect through a reward/shunning framework. Some take to it well, some less well, and some not at all and instead go rob banks and beat others up and create chaos for ordered society. But most want to be accepted instead of shunned, so we learn to keep the anger inward as much as possible to earn approval. As you well know, you can smile at someone while inwardly you are hating them.
So once we begin to see this, we have no option but to pray to Him for help and that He make our hearts right, because there is no man on earth who can keep from ever getting mad. He can work hard to make it so no one else knows what is really in his heart, but he cannot change the inside. He is sometimes ruled by his emotions and they torment his mind.
God doesn't want pleasant outside manners while inside you're seething. He wants to fix the inside so the outside will just follow. And when He does start to fix it, it's great peace and soundness of mind and emotional health. It's inesteemable freedom to not be ruled by your emotions. And you ARE ruled by them if they toss your mind and heart around. The gospel is about true freedom, not just good manners. He can give you true freedom.
So when people make it all about forgiveness, they have not yet made it past the first step. They're staying there instead of going on to the other steps, so they think it's the only step until He leads them to the next one. We're all learning.
People often judge God by the people who claim to follow Jesus when they really aren't following Him but are just regurgitating what men have taught them.
Forgiveness comes first. Without it, who would be foolish enough to not fear approaching God??
Once the forgiveness is given and received, the Spirit is given and received and if we read and ask Him our questions and wait patiently, He will give us understanding. But men don't often do this. They go seek out men to teach them and some doctrines are wrong, some are not wrong but only deal with one extreme of a matter but not the other side of it and so there is an imbalance of understanding and it takes longer to work it out because they will just insist a man has already taught them the truth of the matter. So it becomes that men quench the Spirit and have a harder time getting further. They still get there eventually but have been hindered by other men.
Jesus said if we have anger in our heart at another, even if we don't shoot them, we have already murdered. So He begins to teach us that it is all about heart purity with Him, not how the outside looks to someone else. Society (and parents) teach us common decency and respect through a reward/shunning framework. Some take to it well, some less well, and some not at all and instead go rob banks and beat others up and create chaos for ordered society. But most want to be accepted instead of shunned, so we learn to keep the anger inward as much as possible to earn approval. As you well know, you can smile at someone while inwardly you are hating them.
So once we begin to see this, we have no option but to pray to Him for help and that He make our hearts right, because there is no man on earth who can keep from ever getting mad. He can work hard to make it so no one else knows what is really in his heart, but he cannot change the inside. He is sometimes ruled by his emotions and they torment his mind.
God doesn't want pleasant outside manners while inside you're seething. He wants to fix the inside so the outside will just follow. And when He does start to fix it, it's great peace and soundness of mind and emotional health. It's inesteemable freedom to not be ruled by your emotions. And you ARE ruled by them if they toss your mind and heart around. The gospel is about true freedom, not just good manners. He can give you true freedom.
So when people make it all about forgiveness, they have not yet made it past the first step. They're staying there instead of going on to the other steps, so they think it's the only step until He leads them to the next one. We're all learning.
People often judge God by the people who claim to follow Jesus when they really aren't following Him but are just regurgitating what men have taught them.
The first motion of your heart is just temptation. Letting yourself be carried away by it and submitting to that first heart motion or thought is the sin. At first, we stumble often. But we pray for Him to give us a clean heart and we wait and He will soon cause us to not stumble so often. He answers our prayer. But sometimes not as quickly as we would like because we are impatient in our hunger for righteousness in our inner man.
Why is it that you believe we constantly sin? You'll notice in the NT that certain people were "handed over to satan" because they were sinning. They were ex-communicated from the church. It was with restoration in mind, for them to see how good they had it in the fellowship. In this way they stop doing what they are doing and rejoin the fellowship.
So are you saying that you should be ex-communicated? Or that we all should be ex-communicated? If you sin constantly then according to scripture the body of believers should "hand you over satan." Some verses saying we shouldn't even associate with you.
That just one point, but lets consider others. If we sin constantly and you believe in sin confession for forgiveness, you'd be in your prayer closet constantly seeking forgiveness. There would be no rest (the rest that Christ offers through His death and resurrection). Not even considering guilt, you'd have no peace. No assurance.
Now, what else can we surmise about the premise that we sin constantly? A part of our redemption is not only being saved from the penalty of sin but from the sin itself, no? Doesn't God set us free from sin? If we sin constantly, why does scripture encourage us to reckon ourselves dead to sin? Why does God, through the apostle Paul, tell us through a list of sins that "these things you were" and go on to how the Holy Spirit set us free (sanctified us)?
The point is that there is a precedent of what faith in Christ accomplishes, and scripture points to liberty from sin (not just its penalty).
Romans 6 King James Version (KJV)
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
How can we constantly be sinning when we are dead to it?
So are you saying that you should be ex-communicated? Or that we all should be ex-communicated? If you sin constantly then according to scripture the body of believers should "hand you over satan." Some verses saying we shouldn't even associate with you.
That just one point, but lets consider others. If we sin constantly and you believe in sin confession for forgiveness, you'd be in your prayer closet constantly seeking forgiveness. There would be no rest (the rest that Christ offers through His death and resurrection). Not even considering guilt, you'd have no peace. No assurance.
Now, what else can we surmise about the premise that we sin constantly? A part of our redemption is not only being saved from the penalty of sin but from the sin itself, no? Doesn't God set us free from sin? If we sin constantly, why does scripture encourage us to reckon ourselves dead to sin? Why does God, through the apostle Paul, tell us through a list of sins that "these things you were" and go on to how the Holy Spirit set us free (sanctified us)?
The point is that there is a precedent of what faith in Christ accomplishes, and scripture points to liberty from sin (not just its penalty).
Romans 6 King James Version (KJV)
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
How can we constantly be sinning when we are dead to it?
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
A Spirit led life will abstain from sin,and show the characteristics of the Spirit,so they are not under the law,which means the law cannot touch them for prosecution.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
But we cannot attain sinless perfection while we are in the flesh,for there is a war between the flesh,and doing what the Spirit wants,which we can still sin if we desire to sin,and as long as we have the possibility to sin,we cannot have sinless perfection,for sinless perfection means there is no way possible that you can sin.
But a Spirit led life will not sin,but in the flesh dwells no good thing,but with the mind we serve Christ,and we have to abstain from sin to be right with God,and there is no excuse for the Spirit is available to us to cause us to abstain from sin,and if we do sin it can be forgiven,but if we sin on purpose then the blood of Christ cannot take it away until we do not want it anymore.
How do people think they cannot abstain from sin if they allow the Spirit to lead them,for it is what the Spirit wants,and if they hold on to sin,and think they cannot abstain from sin,they do not want the Spirit to lead them,and they have a form of godliness,but deny the power thereof.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
A Spirit led life will abstain from sin,and show the characteristics of the Spirit,so they are not under the law,which means the law cannot touch them for prosecution.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
But we cannot attain sinless perfection while we are in the flesh,for there is a war between the flesh,and doing what the Spirit wants,which we can still sin if we desire to sin,and as long as we have the possibility to sin,we cannot have sinless perfection,for sinless perfection means there is no way possible that you can sin.
But a Spirit led life will not sin,but in the flesh dwells no good thing,but with the mind we serve Christ,and we have to abstain from sin to be right with God,and there is no excuse for the Spirit is available to us to cause us to abstain from sin,and if we do sin it can be forgiven,but if we sin on purpose then the blood of Christ cannot take it away until we do not want it anymore.
How do people think they cannot abstain from sin if they allow the Spirit to lead them,for it is what the Spirit wants,and if they hold on to sin,and think they cannot abstain from sin,they do not want the Spirit to lead them,and they have a form of godliness,but deny the power thereof.
If God has set us free from sin (old man crucified) and we are dead to sin (as scripture states) why is it hard "to go long periods without sinning"? What makes it hard? I am not saying I am perfect or anything of the like, but I am asking biblically why it would be hard to not sin when His word declares sin shall not have dominion over us?
It doesn't even have to be a long period, you said days. Why do you feel you have the propensity to sin in direct contradiction to scripture? Some people act as if their sin isn't by choice, but making. However, we are born-again, made new creations able to serve in the newness of life.
So, again, it seems that for whatever reason believers feel that they sin often, but when reading the NT epistles it is clear that this shouldn't be the case. I understand sanctification is a process and fruit takes time to bear. This doesn't mean that we "sin constantly" or that we can't go a period of time without sinning. I understand not sinning shouldn't even be the focus, but its just an interesting conversation because it seems that people still believe that they must sin. Not only at some point in their life, but all the time.
Where is our liberty from sin then, if we can hardly go but a day without sinning?
It doesn't even have to be a long period, you said days. Why do you feel you have the propensity to sin in direct contradiction to scripture? Some people act as if their sin isn't by choice, but making. However, we are born-again, made new creations able to serve in the newness of life.
So, again, it seems that for whatever reason believers feel that they sin often, but when reading the NT epistles it is clear that this shouldn't be the case. I understand sanctification is a process and fruit takes time to bear. This doesn't mean that we "sin constantly" or that we can't go a period of time without sinning. I understand not sinning shouldn't even be the focus, but its just an interesting conversation because it seems that people still believe that they must sin. Not only at some point in their life, but all the time.
Where is our liberty from sin then, if we can hardly go but a day without sinning?
This isn't about sinless perfectionism. This is about why you, or any believer, feel that you must sin when God's word says that we have been set free and are dead to sin. I am not preaching sinless perfectionism so much so as asking why don't believers feel they can go a period of time without sinning when scripture plainly states to not sin so that grace may abound?
If God's word tells us to not sin for the purposes of grace abounding that means that sin is a choice. Why do believer's feel the need to make sin not a choice, but due to design? We are born again, such a propensity according to scripture has been crucified and we are made new creations.
Of course the go to reply is to use those verses (though I disagree with their usage and believe this is addressing Gnosticism, who held a belief that their spirit was pure, but their flesh inherently evil, so they were fine with sin in a way). I see those verses as salvation verses, meaning if someone doesn't recognize they sin and say they don't they are making God out to be a liar (because all fall short of His glory).
Those verses don't address the problem, nor do they excuse the issue. Why do Christians believe they cannot go any period of time (practically) without sinning? Whether it be hours, days, months, or years. Doesn't scripture disagree with this premise, in many verses?
If God's word tells us to not sin for the purposes of grace abounding that means that sin is a choice. Why do believer's feel the need to make sin not a choice, but due to design? We are born again, such a propensity according to scripture has been crucified and we are made new creations.
Of course the go to reply is to use those verses (though I disagree with their usage and believe this is addressing Gnosticism, who held a belief that their spirit was pure, but their flesh inherently evil, so they were fine with sin in a way). I see those verses as salvation verses, meaning if someone doesn't recognize they sin and say they don't they are making God out to be a liar (because all fall short of His glory).
Those verses don't address the problem, nor do they excuse the issue. Why do Christians believe they cannot go any period of time (practically) without sinning? Whether it be hours, days, months, or years. Doesn't scripture disagree with this premise, in many verses?
These verses being applicable to this discussion.
Romans 6:12-23 King James Version (KJV)
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 6:12-23 King James Version (KJV)
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
God's definition of sin is much different than ours. If we simplify sin to its core, sin is caring more for ourselves than we care for God. That was the original sin.
Adam wanted the apple and that was more important than what God wanted.
Jesus is the only example we have of sinless perfection. He gave 100% of himself to the causes of God. No other person has ever done that.
Because we are not Jesus, we sin constantly, second by second.
To be sinless on Gods terms we would need to deprive ourselves 24/7 and surve others tirelessly and without reward. We would sacrifice ourselves for people who didn't deserve it. Sacrifice ourselves for rapist, criminals, murderers. Be willing to die on their behalf just because we love God.
Does tha sound like you?
Only one person has done that.
Jesus is his name o!
That is what real sin is and who we really are.
Thank you Jesus for what he did freeing us from death.
Adam wanted the apple and that was more important than what God wanted.
Jesus is the only example we have of sinless perfection. He gave 100% of himself to the causes of God. No other person has ever done that.
Because we are not Jesus, we sin constantly, second by second.
To be sinless on Gods terms we would need to deprive ourselves 24/7 and surve others tirelessly and without reward. We would sacrifice ourselves for people who didn't deserve it. Sacrifice ourselves for rapist, criminals, murderers. Be willing to die on their behalf just because we love God.
Does tha sound like you?
Only one person has done that.
Jesus is his name o!
That is what real sin is and who we really are.
Thank you Jesus for what he did freeing us from death.
I agree with your point and with Ben's too. I believe both are true statements.
Most of us have been taught - if we don't swear, drink, smoke, commit sexual sins, steal - then we are not sinning. These are the "biggie sins".
However when you look at the works of the flesh in Gal. 5 and in other lists in other scriptures like 1 Pet 2:1 - we see that malice ( which is ill-will towards someone ), slander, outbursts of anger, creating strife, creating divisions, envy, hypocrisy...etc. These are all in the same lists of the works of the flesh.
Us "good" Christians love to categorize sin and the "real sinning" is what we don't do but others do. Sin is missing the mark - missing the target of God's quality of life and not participating in His life. Thank God that the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin because of His work on the cross.
I agree with Ben about Romans chapter 6-8 too and what does it mean to not be under the domination of "sin" - that is the real question.
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The Law was meant by God to reveal sin and show man's inability to live up to God's righteous standards. Christians, living under the New Covenant, are not under the Old Covenant law but able to fulfill its intent through faith in Jesus Christ. We are called to persevere until the end and to sin is a choice but in moments of weakness God is our strength. We are bound to fail because we are weak. What do we need God for if we are always strong? God will not condemn but will continue guide us in our spiritual growth.