Sabbath

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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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The word, Sabbath, has never been related to the number seven, God declared the Seventh Day of creation to be "the" Sabbath unto the Lord. There are many sabbaths mentioned in the Word.

Your post's very last line is imperative in understanding the rest we are promised........we really must labour, and that right diligently, to enter into rest....... Surely Jesus Christ is returning soon,amen..

I have researched the "Sabbath" in the Hebrew language. What I found surprised me. It wasn't even close to the Hebrew spelling of "week" or "seventh." Nevertheless it is very close in the spelling of "rest."

שַׁבָּתוֹן shabbâthôwn, shab-baw-thone'; from H7676; a sabbatism or special holiday:—rest, sabbath.
שַׁבָּת shabbâth, shab-bawth'; intensive from H7673; intermission, i.e (specifically) the Sabbath:—(+ every) sabbath.

Hebrews 4:10-11
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
 
Jan 25, 2015
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You are trying very hard to put words in my mouth!
Nobody said anything about God breaking His word or His covenants.
Your third point refers:

Thirdly, the fact that God acted, and has both the capacity and freedom to act outside that covenant, by grace does not change the terms of the covenant.
You see I believe God will not act outside His covenant. We on the other hand need grace; amen to that. God never needed grace because He is God.

If God act outside His covenant He is outside His law and that is impossible. I do see a problem in your theology if you for one second believe God is capable of acting outside His own word. He is not human, he don't need us we need Him. He is the God of perfection and just like with Jesus I can assure you the Father will never ever ever do anything that contradict His own covenant even if He has the freedom to do so.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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Your third point refers:



You see I believe God will not act outside His covenant. We on the other hand need grace; amen to that. God never needed grace because He is God.

If God act outside His covenant He is outside His law and that is impossible. I do see a problem in your theology if you for one second believe God is capable of acting outside His own word. He is not human, he don't need us we need Him. He is the God of perfection and just like with Jesus I can assure you the Father will never ever ever do anything that contradict His own covenant even if He has the freedom to do so.
Nonsense, God can do what He likes as long as He does not break the terms of the covenant.
 
Jan 25, 2015
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Nonsense, God can do what He likes as long as He does not break the terms of the covenant.
Thirdly, the fact that God acted, and has both the capacity and freedom to act outside that covenant, by grace does not change the terms of the covenant.
So in grace God acted outside His covenant? Brother you have your religions mixed up......

God cannot act outside the boundaries of His Law/Word. That is sin according to Paul.

Since Adam we needed grace, God never acted outside his covenant. The law was always full of grace... ask David, ask Samuel, ask Gideon, ask Samson, ask Daniel etc etc etc :)
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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Of course Messiah changed things. He put all things in order that had been disheveled by rabbinical teachings from the already several new sects within theteachings of the Tanakh.

He clarified the understanding of the law, and He fulfilled all of the laws about Him and He fulfilled all the prophets wrote concerning HIm.......that is what He did.

In so doing He invited all who will to learn of Him.....I chose to do this, and all who believe Him that He is the Son of God
do the same.


od
The Lord didn't put things back in order that had been "messed up" by rabbinical priests. He took away all that would condemn us. Abolished. Blotted out. But you have to come to Him to receive Rest in order to be able to see it and enjoy it.

He didn't clarify the law. He magnified it. So it would be easier to see that you can't do it. So that you would see your need for a saviour.

It doesn't seem like you really learned. It seems like you would rather learn about the rebellious children and what they did and follow that. Seems like a pretty big mistake to me. An obvious one that Paul warns against.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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Are you denying that Jesus, whom his followers and friends called Yeshua, did not correct the scribes, Pharisees and Sadduccees with His Gospel??

Here the awaited Alvation of God by the Hebrews returned to save His Flock first and later that other Flock, us. He preached to them the same Gospel He had given to Abraham and later to us.

He probably, almost certainly always taught the Word in the language of the Temple, Hebrew, beacause to teach in a Gentile language would have been considered blasphemy, by thepriesthood and assembly alike.

The paganization of the teaching of the faith of Abraham began shortly after His ascension to the Right Hand of the Father in succumbing to gentile influences in a big way. At antioch the Hebrew converts were first referred to as Christians. Now if those making this reference wre converted Hebrews they would almost assuredly called them Messianics, only in Hebrew. If they were gentiles, specifically, Greeks, perhaps they did call them Christians starting off the paganization of the followers of Jesus Christ.

I know inmy heart and soul if this process had not begun, and people remaind with the converted ones within the Gate of their possession there would ntob be all teh confusion being spread around by this pagan influenced so-called religion of Yeshua, since we would all understand we are descendants of Abraham.

We are freed indeed of the curse of the law but we are not free to disobey teh Man Who died for each of us on the cross. What kind of ingrates would be be to deny His teaching us, gentiles, of the way in His manner.

God ahead, continue denying the truth of Yeshua. Deny His teaching the faith of ABraham. Deny our being adopted into the Israel of God with all those of His chosen people who believe Him. However, do not bar those who know all the above from worshipping Him in Spirit and Truth, for this is HIs desire.

Those lost in the paganization without hope will not separate themselves while God is calling His children out of her. Actually they think they will be doing Yahweh a service by killing us.

Me, I pray all in the great paganization are saved and with us in the Ne Jerusamel of Yahwehh, the Israel of God, amen..



The Lord didn't put things back in order that had been "messed up" by rabbinical priests. He took away all that would condemn us. Abolished. Blotted out. But you have to come to Him to receive Rest in order to be able to see it and enjoy it.

He didn't clarify the law. He magnified it. So it would be easier to see that you can't do it. So that you would see your need for a saviour.

It doesn't seem like you really learned. It seems like you would rather learn about the rebellious children and what they did and follow that. Seems like a pretty big mistake to me. An obvious one that Paul warns against.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
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sorry wrong thread. Don't know how that happened. lol
 
Last edited:

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
113
Are you denying that Jesus, whom his followers and friends called Yeshua, did not correct the scribes, Pharisees and Sadduccees with His Gospel??

Here the awaited Alvation of God by the Hebrews returned to save His Flock first and later that other Flock, us. He preached to them the same Gospel He had given to Abraham and later to us.

He probably, almost certainly always taught the Word in the language of the Temple, Hebrew, beacause to teach in a Gentile language would have been considered blasphemy, by thepriesthood and assembly alike.

The paganization of the teaching of the faith of Abraham began shortly after His ascension to the Right Hand of the Father in succumbing to gentile influences in a big way. At antioch the Hebrew converts were first referred to as Christians. Now if those making this reference wre converted Hebrews they would almost assuredly called them Messianics, only in Hebrew. If they were gentiles, specifically, Greeks, perhaps they did call them Christians starting off the paganization of the followers of Jesus Christ.

I know inmy heart and soul if this process had not begun, and people remaind with the converted ones within the Gate of their possession there would ntob be all teh confusion being spread around by this pagan influenced so-called religion of Yeshua, since we would all understand we are descendants of Abraham.

We are freed indeed of the curse of the law but we are not free to disobey teh Man Who died for each of us on the cross. What kind of ingrates would be be to deny His teaching us, gentiles, of the way in His manner.

God ahead, continue denying the truth of Yeshua. Deny His teaching the faith of ABraham. Deny our being adopted into the Israel of God with all those of His chosen people who believe Him. However, do not bar those who know all the above from worshipping Him in Spirit and Truth, for this is HIs desire.

Those lost in the paganization without hope will not separate themselves while God is calling His children out of her. Actually they think they will be doing Yahweh a service by killing us.

Me, I pray all in the great paganization are saved and with us in the Ne Jerusamel of Yahwehh, the Israel of God, amen..
The Jews had their chance at Grace. Multiple times. They constantly rejected it.

So then Grace was offered to the Gentiles. And we accepted.

Thank you Jesus.


What you call paganization the Lord Jesus calls Rest.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,229
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In my prayers earlier I aske God to bless all Jews everywher and to lift them above all nations with Jesusw Christ their Head, their King.

Sadly, I do not believe you will understand what is intended by that prayer. All who know who true Jews are do understand.

Now I am going to turn in for it is late for me, here in Spain...after 8 PM Your last statemment is not correct. Also, you must recall how Paul, your favorite, teachees we must labor to enter ino His rest.

The Father is still working and so must we, or do you believe the field is not great in harvest work with need for laborers?

God will sent them, in Jesus Christ always, amen.




The Jews had their chance at Grace. Multiple times. They constantly rejected it.

So then Grace was offered to the Gentiles. And we accepted.

Thank you Jesus.


What you call paganization the Lord Jesus calls Rest.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
107
63
So in grace God acted outside His covenant? Brother you have your religions mixed up......

God cannot act outside the boundaries of His Law/Word. That is sin according to Paul.

Since Adam we needed grace, God never acted outside his covenant. The law was always full of grace... ask David, ask Samuel, ask Gideon, ask Samson, ask Daniel etc etc etc :)
No!
He cannot act outside of his own nature and character!
Big difference!

No covenant made with man fully encompasses everything that God can do, and could do within the bounds of His nature and character.

Just because you enter into a contract with someone does not mean that you cannot do anything outside what the contract states as long as you do not break the terms of the contract.
A covenant is no different from a contract.
If you are in a contract with someone and they owe you money, you may be within your rights to sue them for that money.
However, if you choose NOT to sue them you are not in breach of that contract.
And, in principle, you are at perfect liberty to do any number of other things, as long as none of those actions constitute a breach of the contract.
The principle is no different with respect to God.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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What law does GOD write on our hearts and put in our minds with the New Covenant?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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I believe it would be the law as Jesus Christ teaches it...... The Holy Spirit witnesses to it in our hearts and minds while our faith establishes the law according to The Word, Jesus Christ.

What law does GOD write on our hearts and put in our minds with the New Covenant?
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
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I believe it would be the law as Jesus Christ teaches it...... The Holy Spirit witnesses to it in our hearts and minds while our faith establishes the law according to The Word, Jesus Christ.
Jaumej, does the Messiah teach us to keep the Commandments even to the least?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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6,526
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Jesus teaches us that whoever teaches against the least of the laws will be least in the Kingdom.

Now, what is paramount here is to know Jesus Chrst, His teachings, and His Example, otherwise we will still tend to be under the curse of the law, that is death.

Because He teaches the hypocrites ignor the three main points or priciples of the law, faith, mercy and justice, they were lacking totally in understanding.

We know by the Example and teaching of Jesus Christ that mercy and justice are oft time omitted by those who believe themselves to be learned in the law, mainly the grace-only today.

We know His mediation for the woman caught in adultery saved her from the law that she should be stoned to death. We know from His teaching that we do not exact an eye for aneye, rather we are to turn the other cheek.

There is so much that is ignored that is shown brightly by Jesus christ in favor of misunderstanding the teachings of others, Paul and any who teach Paul in error, which seems to be teh vast majority. They tend to forget conveiently that Paul teaches that there is only one Gospel, that of Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ, in His much misquoted and misunderstood declaration of giving us rest by coming to Him for His teaching direct has taught us well that to learn from others usually results in heavier burdens, and much of that time burdens the conveyrs of teaaching will not lift a finger to bear themelves.....hypocrits.

The pharisees are not gone, just their labels have changed.

Jaumej, does the Messiah teach us to keep the Commandments even to the least?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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6,526
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There is a teaching directly from Jesus Christ, "Mat 16:6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.s."

Jesus Christ is the unleavened One..The Bread from Heaven. It is an honor to learn of Him, and the greatest honor is being invited by Himpersonally to learn of Him, amen.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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1 Timothy 1:5-7
[FONT=&quot]5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.


Lot of swerving going on here...[/FONT]
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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I certainly hope you realize that the end of the commanments here is referring to keeping them, and that with love they are kept!

Love does not exclude obeying them, it includes obedience of God.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
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1 Timothy 1:5-7
5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.


Lot of swerving going on here...

Now read what was written before and after that and stop using verses to teach a false gospel of Faith with no works. There is one God and one mediator and you should build yourself up on His Testimony and then read the writings of Paul knowing that he was relaying the Testimony and dealing with doctrines of men......
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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I believe if God himself came here and told you to Keep the Commandments even to the least you would have a verse ready to argue with Him... and I would say Paul's writings would be used.. and If Paul himself came and said you should Keep the Commandments of GOD even to the least you would tell Paul what Paul said......

Heavenly Father and The Messiah are One..

GOD made a New Covenant by which His laws would be written on our hearts and put in our minds...

And my friends the New Covenant His by believing the Testimony of our Lord and Saviour...

Paul's words do not give eternal life... it is not Paul's Testimony you are to adhere to Faithfully....

May your heart desire the Truth that your eyes be opened.

Those of the Old Covenant had the veil of Moses.. I fear a new Veil has come between you and your Creator.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
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I believe if God himself came here and told you to Keep the Commandments even to the least you would have a verse ready to argue with Him... and I would say Paul's writings would be used.. and If Paul himself came and said you should Keep the Commandments of GOD even to the least you would tell Paul what Paul said......

Heavenly Father and The Messiah are One..

GOD made a New Covenant by which His laws would be written on our hearts and put in our minds...

And my friends the New Covenant His by believing the Testimony of our Lord and Saviour...

Paul's words do not give eternal life... it is not Paul's Testimony you are to adhere to Faithfully....

May your heart desire the Truth that your eyes be opened.

Those of the Old Covenant had the veil of Moses.. I fear a new Veil has come between you and your Creator.
I believe if God Himself came here and Commanded you to Rest you would say "Not So, Lord".

Then you would twist scripture to show why God Himself was incorrect in commanding you to Rest.

If you had any idea of what you are arguing against I am sure you would stop.


Galatians 2:21 [FONT=&quot]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

[/FONT]
There is no new vail. Its the same old vail.

The old rejection of Grace is the same as this "new" rejection of Grace. There is nothing new under the sun.