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Thread: Sabbath

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    Default Re: Sabbath

    There is no Sabbath Day today. Colossians 2:14-16 tells us that the ceremonials laws were nailed to the cross, including the Sabbath Day. Jesus became the fulfillment of what the Sabbath represented in the Old Testament. The Sabbath Day was a ceremonial Law, only for the Jews in the Old Testament. It pictured resting in Jesus Christ for salvation. This is plainly taught in Hebrews 4:1-5...
    "Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest."

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    Default Re: Sabbath

    Quote Originally Posted by graceNpeace View Post
    The Sabbath and the commandments surrounding them are absolutely part of the Law that Jesus fulfilled by his sacrifice on the cross.
    There is no specific day of the week to worship God because any and every day is appropriate to worship God.
    To say that one can only worship God on the Sabbath (Saturday) makes mockery of the whole point of Jesus' ministry.
    We are in personal relationship with Him, if we are believers of course, and as such do not need formal times, days, feasts etc to approach Him.
    Yes, we are instructed to worship God corporately and I see nothing in the word of God precluding me and fellow believers from doing that on any day of the week.

    To those who do choose to worship on the Sabbath - knock yourselves out - I have nothing to say about that.
    To those who who are trying to insist that Sabbath worship is compulsory and the only proper way to worship God all you are doing are putting stumbling blocks in front of yourselves because you are absolutely losing sight of the bigger picture of what Jesus' ministry was all about.

    Get out there and preach the Gospel to the lost - do that for a while and you will see your priorities change.
    You are raising an interesting point...that of worship ! what do people see 'as worship ? personally I see it as 'our thankfulness and gratitude to God...something WE do. Now, is that the same as 'receiving instruction ''from HIM ...it's something HE does ! so they are not the same or to be 'mixed as one and the same ! We are required to 'put difference between holy and unholy Lev10v10, if we don't we end up confused.
    Point is we can worship any day of the week - but instruction is given by God on the day(s) He calls us to assemble/convocate before Him ! Lev 23.
    People will say that was for Israel or the Jews....not quite !
    Israel came out of Egypt as a ''mixed multitude - others apart from Israelites - strangers who had joined themselves to the people of God and came under the ''same law as those homeborn Ex 12. Consequently an assembly would consist of different nationals even back then...and more so now in the NT when people from all nations are accepted if they please God Acts 10v35.
    So when people make the excuse the sabbath is not for them they are showing that 'they are not for God' !
    Jesus would HEAL them if they admitted their blindness and only that would change their priorities. At present they have it all back to front.

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    Default Re: Sabbath

    Quote Originally Posted by buddyt View Post
    There is no Sabbath Day today. Colossians 2:14-16 tells us that the ceremonials laws were nailed to the cross, including the Sabbath Day. Jesus became the fulfillment of what the Sabbath represented in the Old Testament. The Sabbath Day was a ceremonial Law, only for the Jews in the Old Testament. It pictured resting in Jesus Christ for salvation. This is plainly taught in Hebrews 4:1-5...
    "Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest."
    Here's a post I made earlier in this thread regarding the Colossians passage you're referring to that I think you'll find interesting to read.

    Regarding Hebrews; the passage you quote actually shows that the Sabbath was established way back in the garden of Eden (that's the "certain place" the writer is referring to), well before there were any Israelites at Mt. Sinai. That's the point he's making. The writer is speaking about returning to the garden/paradise (and the "rest" that it represents) at the end of days which can only happen through belief in what Christ did. That's the rest that remains for believers in God to reach.

    Hebrews 4:1 & 11
    Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

    11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.


    And at the beginning of Hebrews 5 the write *immediately* goes into explaining what Christ did and what we have to believe in:


    Hebrews 5:1
    5 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:

    2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity.

    3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.



    It's the law of "the sacrifices for sin" (i.e. the law of sin & death) that Christ fulfilled so that it no longer had to be performed. The Sabbath day (or its nullification) isn't the subject of Hebrews 4 or 5. The writer is using the reality of what the Sabbath means to show that believers no longer had to "labor" to atone for their sins through sacrificing of animals, but they could now approach God's throne of mercy (through faith in Christ's blood) and ask for mercy and grace; resting from their labors of animal sacrifice (for their many sins) that happened day after day, year after year, with no change in the heart of a person (since it was only an external rehearsal of what Christ would do anyhow).

    ----

    Before Christ, a high priest was selected by man and then even before he could atone on behalf of someone else had to offer a sacrifice for his own sins. No one could approach the throne of God (to receive forgiveness for sin) without blood. Something had to die. Meanwhile Christ was selected by God and didn't have to atone for his own sins (because he had none) who died once for all, taking his blood into heaven.

    ----

    So to continue to sacrifice animals for sin AFTER Christ has risen is showing unbelief that Christ is the High Priest in heaven managing the true version of that very same ministry; it's not "resting" in his work.


    This passage doesn't have anything to do with nullifying the Sabbath day or nullifying any other commandments of God to avoid sinning. We still must obey God and sin not...but if we do sin, we have an eternal high priest we believe is in heaven ministering with his blood, so we don't have to kill an animal to approach God for forgiveness anymore. We're then given the gift of Grace to live godly helping us to "sin not" even more.
    Malachi 3:2 - But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap. 3 He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; he will purify the [priests of God] and refine them like gold and silver. Then the Lord will have [people] who will [worship] in righteousness.

    Ezekiel 36:27 - And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

    - Joshua

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    Default Re: Sabbath

    This passage doesn't have anything to do with nullifying the Sabbath day
    If what you are saying were true... God's Word does not say it's the unpardonable sin to not go to church on Saturday.

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    Default Re: Sabbath

    Quote Originally Posted by buddyt View Post
    There is no Sabbath Day today. Colossians 2:14-16 tells us that the ceremonials laws were nailed to the cross, including the Sabbath Day. Jesus became the fulfillment of what the Sabbath represented in the Old Testament. The Sabbath Day was a ceremonial Law, only for the Jews in the Old Testament. It pictured resting in Jesus Christ for salvation. This is plainly taught in Hebrews 4:1-5...
    "Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest."
    I don't believe it is right for you to teach that because Christ fulfilled so much of what was spoken of before He was born as a human we should disobey God.

    The work the Lord did that week that He rested from that seventh day was not limited to our salvation. To spend Sabbath resting in Him only because He saves us is limiting our Lord. Our Lord wants us to live in this world in peace, love, and abundance also. We can have this as well as salvation when we rest in Him, not in only our own works.

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    Default Re: Sabbath

    Quote Originally Posted by graceNpeace View Post
    The Sabbath and the commandments surrounding them are absolutely part of the Law that Jesus fulfilled by his sacrifice on the cross.
    There is no specific day of the week to worship God because any and every day is appropriate to worship God.
    To say that one can only worship God on the Sabbath (Saturday) makes mockery of the whole point of Jesus' ministry.
    We are in personal relationship with Him, if we are believers of course, and as such do not need formal times, days, feasts etc to approach Him.
    Yes, we are instructed to worship God corporately and I see nothing in the word of God precluding me and fellow believers from doing that on any day of the week.

    To those who do choose to worship on the Sabbath - knock yourselves out - I have nothing to say about that.
    To those who who are trying to insist that Sabbath worship is compulsory and the only proper way to worship God all you are doing are putting stumbling blocks in front of yourselves because you are absolutely losing sight of the bigger picture of what Jesus' ministry was all about.

    Get out there and preach the Gospel to the lost - do that for a while and you will see your priorities change.
    I insist on worshiping in spirit and in TRUTH
    The Sabbath is part truth not its fullness. To enjoy the fullness we must stop rejecting the law, which is the word and it is all truth.

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    Default Re: Sabbath

    Quote Originally Posted by buddyt View Post
    There is no Sabbath Day today. Colossians 2:14-16 tells us that the ceremonials laws were nailed to the cross, including the Sabbath Day. Jesus became the fulfillment of what the Sabbath represented in the Old Testament. The Sabbath Day was a ceremonial Law, only for the Jews in the Old Testament. It pictured resting in Jesus Christ for salvation. This is plainly taught in Hebrews 4:1-5...
    "Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest."
    The Sabbath Day exists as much TODAY as it existed at Creation ! To rip it out of the 7 day week would reduce it to only 6 days...what you mean is 'you don't recognize it as GOD's HOLY TIME.
    Can you give us scripture WHEN exactly God no longer considers it holy ? HE told us to keep the day holy ...wouldn't He also give us a scripture to say when to stop ? MAN takes the effrontary to do that himself...and if not repented of will bear the consequences for all eternity. Since when can MAN undo what GOD has made holy ?

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    Default Re: Sabbath

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnTalmid View Post
    I insist on worshiping in spirit and in TRUTH
    The Sabbath is part truth not its fullness. To enjoy the fullness we must stop rejecting the law, which is the word and it is all truth.
    Knock yourself out!

    As for me I am under the Covenant of Grace - the one established by the blood sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross.
    If you choose to approach God under the Mosaic Covenant that is your prerogative - it is still in operation.
    However, if you are under the Covenant of Moses and choose to stay there you cannot be under the Covenant of Grace as well - the shed blood of Jesus Christ is not available to you, you are not covered by the blood of Christ, and there is no justification for you on the basis of that shed blood.

    The result is that you will be judged according to the full body of the Law of Moses - to the last jot and tittle!
    Since no human being in history has ever kept the Law apart from Jesus Christ Himself you will, accordingly, be judged to be a sinner with the appropriate penalty.
    I am a sinner too, but the essential difference is that I am justified, not by my own merit (I would irrevocably doomed if that were the case), but, by the blood of Jesus Christ. Justified solely by the blood of Jesus Christ.

    Look at what the Apostle Paul says about those who believe they can be Christians and yet follow the Law of Moses:
    Gal 3:1-29

    1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth,[a]before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you[b] as crucified?
    Is Paul upset, or what!

    2
    This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
    Obviously not by the works of the law - lets read on!

    3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?
    4
    Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?
    Again Paul is not mincing his words here.

    5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?—
    Again there is no mixing of the law and the hearing by faith.

    6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[c]
    7
    Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.
    Faith is the only thing that can justify

    8
    And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”[d]
    9
    So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham
    And justification by faith is the only way - and it has been the case all through biblical history

    10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”[e] 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.”[f]
    Couldn't say it better myself - no one is justified by the law - now or ever

    12
    Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”[g]
    13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”[h]),
    In this way Jesus Christ fulfilled the law on our behalf so that those who accept the saving work of Jesus Christ on the cross would not be
    cursed and condemned according to the righteous requirement of the law but would instead be justified according to the blood shed by Jesus Christ on that cross.

    14
    that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
    The Holy spirit is the seal of our salvation - and that salvation is through faith

    15 Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. 16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,”[i] who is Christ.
    Self explanatory

    17
    And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ,[j] that it should make the promise of no effect. 18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
    Hhmmm... so the law cannot change the fact that justification is by faith and that the law cannot justify and that the inheritance promised to Abraham and fulfilled in Jesus Christ cannot be obtained from the law

    19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only,but God is one.
    21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
    23
    But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed.
    24
    Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
    Yes, the law had a purpose, brilliantly explained by Paul. All it does is convict us of our sinfulness and convince us of our inability to escape our sinfulness (we were kept under guard). However through Jesus Christ, justification by faith is offered - and that faith is the faith in the efficacious sacrifice that Jesus Christ made on the cross. Nothing else!

    25
    But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
    Nothing plainer - we are no longer under the law - not one part of it, nothing, nix, nada!

    26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
    27
    For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
    28
    There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
    29
    And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
    Heirs according to the promise - that is justification by faith.
    Nothing to do with the law!

    It is your eternity - nothing could be plainer...
    Last edited by graceNpeace; 6 Days Ago at 05:59 AM.
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    Default Re: Sabbath

    Quote Originally Posted by graceNpeace View Post
    Knock yourself out!

    As for me I am under the Covenant of Grace - the one established by the blood sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross.
    If you choose to approach God under the Mosaic Covenant that is your prerogative - it is still in operation.
    However, if you are under the Covenant of Moses and choose to stay there you cannot be under the Covenant of Grace as well - the shed blood of Jesus Christ is not available to you, you are not covered by the blood of Christ, and there is no justification for you on the basis of that shed blood.

    The result is that you will be judged according to the full body of the Law of Moses - to the last jot and tittle!
    Since no human being in history has ever kept the Law apart from Jesus Christ Himself you will, accordingly, be judged to be a sinner with the appropriate penalty.
    I am a sinner too, but the essential difference is that I am justified, not by my own merit (I would irrevocably doomed if that were the case), but, by the blood of Jesus Christ. Justified solely by the blood of Jesus Christ.

    Look at what the Apostle Paul says about those who believe they can be Christians and yet follow the Law of Moses:
    Gal 3:1-29

    1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth,[a]before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you[b] as crucified?
    Is Paul upset, or what!

    2
    This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
    Obviously not by the works of the law - lets read on!

    3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?
    4
    Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?
    Again Paul is not mincing his words here.

    5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?—
    Again there is no mixing of the law and the hearing by faith.

    6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[c]
    7
    Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.
    Faith is the only thing that can justify

    8
    And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”[d]
    9
    So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham
    And justification by faith is the only way - and it has been the case all through biblical history

    10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”[e] 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.”[f]
    Couldn't say it better myself - no one is justified by the law - now or ever

    12
    Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”[g]
    13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”[h]),
    In this way Jesus Christ fulfilled the law on our behalf so that those who accept the saving work of Jesus Christ on the cross would not be
    cursed and condemned according to the righteous requirement of the law but would instead be justified according to the blood shed by Jesus Christ on that cross.

    14
    that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
    The Holy spirit is the seal of our salvation - and that salvation is through faith

    15 Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. 16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,”[i] who is Christ.
    Self explanatory

    17
    And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ,[j] that it should make the promise of no effect. 18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
    Hhmmm... so the law cannot change the fact that justification is by faith and that the law cannot justify and that the inheritance promised to Abraham and fulfilled in Jesus Christ cannot be obtained from the law

    19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only,but God is one.
    21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
    23
    But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed.
    24
    Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
    Yes, the law had a purpose, brilliantly explained by Paul. All it does is convict us of our sinfulness and convince us of our inability to escape our sinfulness (we were kept under guard). However through Jesus Christ, justification by faith is offered - and that faith is the faith in the efficacious sacrifice that Jesus Christ made on the cross. Nothing else!

    25
    But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
    Nothing plainer - we are no longer under the law - not one part of it, nothing, nix, nada!

    26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
    27
    For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
    28
    There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
    29
    And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
    Heirs according to the promise - that is justification by faith.
    Nothing to do with the law!

    It is your eternity - nothing could be plainer...
    To say I'm under the law because I say it is truth it only proves your own rebellion against truth. Faith comes through the word of truth. Who really lives under the tradition of men and not the word of God? I confess Messiah is my head. I would be only struggling with the law if he wasn't my head. Because he is my head and teacher the law no longer brings condemnations for my sin but instruction on which way we should walk. Because my mind is focused on the truth of the Kingdom my body daily is renewed by the covenants and my feet are steadied by the commandments. If it was not for my Master Yahshua there wouldn't have been a way for me to approach the God of the universe. You think I enter into Sabbath on my own power? I am telling you I wouldn't know about it without grace let alone enter into Sabbath.
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    Default Re: Sabbath

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnTalmid View Post
    To say I'm under the law because I say it is truth it only proves your own rebellion against truth. Faith comes through the word of truth. Who really lives under the tradition of men and not the word of God? I confess Messiah is my head. I would be only struggling with the law if he wasn't my head. Because he is my head and teacher the law no longer brings condemnations for my sin but instruction on which way we should walk. Because my mind is focused on the truth of the Kingdom my body daily is renewed by the covenants and my feet are steadied by the commandments. If it was not for my Master Yahshua there wouldn't have been a way for me to approach the God of the universe. You think I enter into Sabbath on my own power? I am telling you I wouldn't know about it without grace let alone enter into Sabbath.
    Look, I am terribly sorry, but your reply has no internal logic to it, never mind being a coherent reply to my last post.
    Apart from the fact that you are telling I am supposed to be in rebellion none of the rest of it makes any sense.

    I quoted an entire chapter of Galatians, along with the explanation of what it means to show you the irrelevance of the law - including sabbath-keeping in Christianity.

    Are you telling me that Paul is wrong?

    Concentrate on the theology rather than throw accusations at me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by graceNpeace View Post
    Look, I am terribly sorry, but your reply has no internal logic to it, never mind being a coherent reply to my last post.
    Apart from the fact that you are telling I am supposed to be in rebellion none of the rest of it makes any sense.

    I quoted an entire chapter of Galatians, along with the explanation of what it means to show you the irrelevance of the law - including sabbath-keeping in Christianity.

    Are you telling me that Paul is wrong?

    Concentrate on the theology rather than throw accusations at me.
    Im saying you are misunderstanding Paul. He isn't saying to the Galatians to not guard the commandments they where failing to be the assembly by following the testimony of the Jewish religion not the testimony of Messiah. The faith isn't Baptist, Pentecostal, non denominational, Pharisee, Saduse, or anything other than the words of Elohim and the testimony of Messiah. The law of sin is condemned but the law of life which is not without Messiah is life. You can't have it without Messiah and you can't have Messiah without the law of the spirit. The law has been transformed by grace not just the Sabbath. Sabbath is renewed just as any believer who has put their trust in YHWH and the testimony of Messiah Yahshua. The faith you are teaching is many without works, the faith I testify of is one with works preordained for mankind to walk in. The law of sin which is what all flesh is under from birth is what you say still condemns you. So you will be judged by it because if what you don't do that you know is right is sin under Messiah. Your faith hasn't the power to make one holy. Through the appointed times of YHWH in Messiah We enter into the Holy days of rest by trusting. Your faiths teach the cross and more important than this the resurrection. However it failed to enter into the promise by not mixing with faith the work of Messiah. So you follow instead the tradition handed down by men's works and worse teachings of demons. I would pray my Elohim may forgive you but he has already made a way. You wouldn't believe even if the dead where to wake up and tell you.
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    OK Matt 7:6 time...

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    Whats the difference between a carnal commandment and a Spiritual Law?

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    One there is condemnations the other there is not. To simplify there is the law which by design locked up under sin those who don't keep it and the instruction of Elohim which is life. I can't separate it from Messiah because Yeshua came and renewed it by the command to love YHWH with all my heart and mind and strength. It is because I love YHWH that I love you. So be healed and return to the ancient path not the tradition of men. Return to YHWH where your first love resides. You are right to fear YHWH and the judgment but this fear should lead too doing what is right, not what men have baked into theology over centuries. May Messiah bless you. John Talmid

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grandpa View Post
    Whats the difference between a carnal commandment and a Spiritual Law?
    (carnal) commandments contained in ordinances/works/ which stood only in 'meats and drinks and divers washings, offering sacrifices etc ...which eventually pass, temporal.
    Spiritual laws like the commandments of God regarding 'love to God and neighbour' are for all time, eternal and never obsolete or abolished. Does that help ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by beta View Post
    (carnal) commandments contained in ordinances/works/ which stood only in 'meats and drinks and divers washings, offering sacrifices etc ...which eventually pass, temporal.
    Spiritual laws like the commandments of God regarding 'love to God and neighbour' are for all time, eternal and never obsolete or abolished. Does that help ?
    No, not at all. Not according to the Bible.

    2 Corinthians 3:6-8
    6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
    7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
    8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?


    Whenever you say 'commandment' it is usually followed by a carnal understanding and a way to follow it in your own strength and understanding.

    When you say Spiritual Law that means Holy Spirit and Life and Blessing and is not attained by our own work or understanding.


    Its easy to confuse and confound because God writes His Law on our hearts and minds. But those laws aren't the 10 commandments. The law written on our heart is Love. The law put in our mind is Peace and Joy and Faith.

    The means to this Love, Peace, Joy, Faith, etc.. is Rest in Christ. That's Christianity.

    Working at the law in your own strength and understanding is the schoolmaster to bring you to Christ. Carnal commandments are supposed to bring you to the point of understanding that you can't do it. You should be looking for help. Not help from other people who have the same short-comings as you do. Help from someone with no short-comings.

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    Those who keep the commandments of God and testimony of Messiah... That is the sign of the redeemed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grandpa View Post
    No, not at all. Not according to the Bible.

    2 Corinthians 3:6-8
    6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
    7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
    8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?


    Whenever you say 'commandment' it is usually followed by a carnal understanding and a way to follow it in your own strength and understanding.

    When you say Spiritual Law that means Holy Spirit and Life and Blessing and is not attained by our own work or understanding.


    Its easy to confuse and confound because God writes His Law on our hearts and minds. But those laws aren't the 10 commandments. The law written on our heart is Love. The law put in our mind is Peace and Joy and Faith.

    The means to this Love, Peace, Joy, Faith, etc.. is Rest in Christ. That's Christianity.

    Working at the law in your own strength and understanding is the schoolmaster to bring you to Christ. Carnal commandments are supposed to bring you to the point of understanding that you can't do it. You should be looking for help. Not help from other people who have the same short-comings as you do. Help from someone with no short-comings.
    Thank you for the advice but -
    I will continue to look for help from GOD, not any sinful proud man who thinks he has all the answers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnTalmid View Post
    Those who keep the commandments of God and testimony of Messiah... That is the sign of the redeemed.
    Yes sir it is.

    What is the testimony of the Lord Jesus Christ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by beta View Post
    Thank you for the advice but -
    I will continue to look for help from GOD, not any sinful proud man who thinks he has all the answers.
    If that were really true you would already know all this that I showed.

    Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.


    Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

    That seems like a lot of labour.

    Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

    That seems like a heavy burden.


    I don't have all the answers. Just the One that really matters.

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