Sabbath

[joefizz]

I agree and will say....LOVE and truth go hand in hand....?? Was Jesus loving the Pharisees when he raked them over the coals and called them the blind leaders of the blind or white washed coffins filled with the bones of dead men?

Was John loving the Pharisees/people when he called them a generation of vipers and demanded repentance?

Were the men who were preaching out of pretense and an attempt to make Paul's life more miserable preaching out of love?

Obviously LOVE should be our motive and many times things said with heat or a sharp edge are spoken out of love (cases in point above JESUS and JOHN)

At the end of the day the power and ability to shine through is in the message and not the messenger.........

well in Jesus's own way he was caring for them,or as one can put loving the Pharisees,for though he knew they probably wouldn't change from their ways,and do "truly" right,but he still felt compelled to tell them of what they did wrong,just as when the sadducees asked of the resurrection,he corrected them,though he knew many times that many people were tempting him to speak ill to them all but he would not,and all this he did because he loved them all,for if not then why would he even acknowledge them let alone ,correct them,or tell them what they did wrong? I can't say it enough,read the bible alongside the holy spirit reading it spiritually,and thine eyes can be opened to what is "true" not "obvious" nor "natural" or better yet a better example would be of the young ruler,whom asked Jesus if he could have eternal life,jesus asking,"do ye know and observe the commandments"'listing them and the majority the young ruler,observed and obeyed since his youth,it is written that Jesus had compassion on him saying"one doth though lackest,sell all that thou has and give unto to poor,and take up the cross and follow me" Jesus offering him basically the possibility of heaven alongside jesus,yet the young ruler was sad at this saying for he had "great" possessions,and so he left,you see Jesus loved and still loves everyone,the trouble is that many can't bear"correction",nor "truth",but he will still try to make these same understand what is right and what is wrong,nonetheless,for he cares for all of us,which is why he "allowed" himself to be crucified "for us" for there where none but him that could be found to bear the world's sin but him alone,that is "love",as it is written" for God so loved the "world"(the people in it,not the physical world)that he gave his only begotten son,that who so ever believest on him,shall not perish but have everlasting life" what Jesus did was tell the"truth" and just as paul put how touchy "truth" is for people inin this wise..."I apologize that this may offend you,but I shall not apologize for telling you the truth",so understand when Jesus spoke on the Pharisees or others,he did not speak as a snide smart alec like many can be today,he merely spoke "truthfully" "compassionately" and "authoritatively" and most certainly"lovingly"!

 

[beta]

Thats the problem with trying to separate "Moses" law from "Gods" law.

Its a pretty sneaky way to get Christians who don't know any better to go back to working at the law.

It must be a pretty big problem since Paul devotes a lot of scripture to it.

It's not a problem at all if you go back to basic teaching - where GOD Himself made that separation. But people would rather pretend they fully grasp Paul's 'hard to understand writings.

 

[Zen]

The commandment to keep the sabbath comes from God.

Lord Jesus is God and came to do the law, not remove it. Lord Jesus did the law, gave Himself in the ultimate sacrifice of love.

Keeping the sabbath is about loving God.

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

The sabbath existed before the Israelites did.

 

[Grace777x70]

The commandment to keep the sabbath comes from God.

Lord Jesus is God and came to do the law, not remove it. Lord Jesus did the law, gave Himself in the ultimate sacrifice of love.

Keeping the sabbath is about loving God.

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

The sabbath existed before the Israelites did.

Was the "keeping of the Sabbath" a commandment before the Law of Moses?

 

[Zen]

Was the "keeping of the Sabbath" a commandment before the Law of Moses?

Do you tell people what you want, before you want it?

How do you know Adam and his children didn't keep it?

Do you take the Lord's name in vain, because you feel you no longer have to keep any of the commandments?

 

[Grace777x70]

We don't need to live by the moral code in the law of Moses which says in Lev. 18:23 to not have sex with a animal. The law of Christ Himself , the law of love, the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus will stop this.

People often say to those that speak of the grace of God and that they are not under the law of Moses including the 10 commandments anymore that they believe they are without "laws" now.

We do have laws in the New Covenant.

They are exciting laws that bring life and wholeness to us all - because these are all Christ Himself in us. Jesus fulfilled the law. The law was a mere shadow of the real thing which was Jesus.

Read the law to see Jesus in it and to know that Jesus did that for us and His life in us now leads us in all things. Those who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God.

We now live by:

1) The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. ( Romans 8:2 )

2) The law of love ( Romans 13:10 James 2:8 )

3) The law of faith ( Romans 3:27 and the law of Moses is NOT of faith - Gal. 3:12 )

4) Thelaw of liberty in Christ Jesus ( James 1:25 )

5) The law of Christ - which is Christ Himself in us. ( Gal. 6:2 )

We can trust the Holy Spirit and the life of Christ Himself in us to lead us in all affairs of life. We don't go back to the law of Moses that were a shadow of the real thing which is Christ in us.. Jesus is more then enough.

Yes...we glory in the laws that we have in the New Covenant because they are all Christ Himself living in and through us. ( Gal.2:20 and Col. 3:3 )

Get this wrong and we create a religion which really nullifies the grace of God from operating in our lives like it was meant to.


Galatians 5:22-23 (NASB)

[SUP]22 [/SUP] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

[SUP]23 [/SUP] gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

 

[Zen]

The law of Christ is to love God, and then your neighbor.

If you don't keep the sabbath but you don't take the Lord's name in vain, are you not picking and choosing which you follow? 2 commandments of the same list, both about loving God.

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

 

[beta]

Going back a few posts the question was asked if there was a difference between Gods Commandments and the law of Moses.
Obviously there is because Jesus said 'He kept His Fathers commandments Joh 15v10. If they were all Moses' commandments Jesus would have said 'I kept Moses commandments....
Since Jesus said they were His Fathers com/s then there must be some that are His, spiritual and eternal, even Paul says in Rom 7.
But back in Ex20 GOD personally gave the 10 to the people assembled...and in Deut 5 (v22) Moses re-iterated to the people what happened in Ex 20, how God spoke the 10 to the people and added no more...and these are the basic principles of 'loving God and neighbour and are spiritual and eternal even Jesus referred to in the 2 great commandments Mk 12v29-31.
So these 10 were separated from the rest of the law given through Moses contained in ordinances and carnal woks obsolete now Eph 2v15 !

There were people THEN who refused to hear God Ex 20v19 and there are people today who refuse to hear Him - hence all this religious hatred and arguing among Christians.

 

[oldethennew]

JOB 16:19.
Also now, behold, My witness is in heaven, and My record is on high.

ROM. 15:4.
For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning,
that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

1COR.15:37.
If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things
that I write unto you are the Commandments of The Lord.

 

[LoveGodForever]

What is the new covenant?

Matthew 11:28Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. That's the cornerstone of it, ironically enough.

The text you quoted above is a great promise to God’s people. God’s Word however is very clear as to what the new covenant is….

“For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people.” (Heb 8:10; 10:16 quoted from the Old Testament Jeremiah 31:33-34)

Our rest is from trying to keep God’s Laws in our own strength. God changes our heart as we believe and depend on the same creative power of His Words for our salvation. Now we follow Jesus because we love him. This is the work of God writing His Law (10 commandments) in our heart as we have faith in His Words.

Of those that posted earlier can you tell me who you think believes they are saved by the works of the Law?

All of the ones who think they still have to work at it.
Galatians 3:19,23
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

I am sorry if you got this impression. But from reading the thread I could not find any messages of anyone saying they believe they need to work to get salvation. Only that if you profess to have faith and do not have works then you do not really have faith at all. This is biblical as is shown in the fruit parables in the Gospels and James…“But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?” (James 2:20). We cannot save ourselves God saves us. It is God who works in us to will and to do of His own good pleasure (Phil 2:13) as we have faith in His Words.

After reading the whole thread recently I don't think your posts above are relevant. Maybe it’s me sometimes I am slow. Seems to me your interpretation of scripture above needs a bit more thought that is the only reason I provided the questions above.


That’s because you think its perfectly fine to work at the law. In fact you think it’s your duty. You must not understand the scriptures that are posted. They seem really straightforward to me.

God bless you
Thanks. God bless you too

Grandpa I think the above is uncalled for. You do not know me and my relationship with God. Only Jesus knows me and knows if I am right with Him. I believe I am right with God because I believe His Words. How about you?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word and prayer

 

[LoveGodForever]

Please forgive the last post as for some reason (possibly my end) not everything was posted the first time.

Hi Grandpa, so nice to meet you here. I know I am a little late in reading this thread I think mostly everything has been answered already as there seems to be a lot of repetition at this point forward. Hope you do not mind me commenting on your post.

May I ask do you know the difference between the law of Moses and the Law of God?

The Law written on stones is the Law of Moses.

You make a mistake if you believe that God’s Law is the laws of Moses. Have you wondered why God separated the Book of Moses from God’s Law? (Deut 31:9; Ex 24:4)


The book of Moses “Pentateuch” is made up of the first five books of the Old Testament (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy). As most people know, among other things, records the creation week, the fall of mankind, the rebellion of mankind, the destruction of the world by a flood because of sin. God leading his people out of Egypt, the giving of the Law of God from Sinai, all the laws of the sanctuary service including the ceremonial laws, sacrificial laws (which pointed to Christ and His work on our behalf) and also included civil and health laws.

Many people make the mistake of thinking that these laws of Moses are the Laws of God but it is quite clear that God’s Word separates the laws of Moses from the Laws of God written on stone (Ex 31:18). The laws of Moses were only designed to complement God’s Law by providing a background to why God gave His law (the 10 commandments). The book of Moses (Deut 31:9; Ex 24:4) when it was finished was to be placed in the side of the Ark separate from God’s Law written on stone with the finger of God. God’s Law was made by God, written with the finger of God and spoken to Gods people by God Himself. It is the work of God Himself and is forever. (Ex 31:18; Ex 20:1, 22; Deut 4:13, 31:25-26, Ecc 3:14).

It is very clear from God’s Word that the 10 commandments are the work of God and not the work of Moses otherwise why would God need to separate the Book of Moses from God’s Law (10 commandments)?

What was done away at the cross and what is forever?

Nothing was actually done away. Everything is in full force until you come to Christ.

Absolutely my friend. God’s Law has not been done away with at all because it was made by God himself. “I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.” (Ecc 3:14). However it is still in force after we come to Christ as well because without the Law is no knowledge of sin and without it how do we know if we are following God or not? (Rom 7:7). So if God's Law was not done away with why do you not keep the Sabbath commandment (Ex 20:8-11)?

What is the new covenant?

Matthew 11:28Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. That's the cornerstone of it, ironically enough.

The text you quoted above is a great promise to God’s people. God’s Word however is very clear as to what the new covenant is….

“For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people.” (Heb 8:10; 10:16 quoted from the Old Testament Jeremiah 31:33-34)

Our rest is from trying to keep God’s Laws in our own strength. God changes our heart as we believe and depend on the same creative power of His Words for our salvation. Now we follow Jesus because we love him. This is the work of God writing His Law (10 commandments) in our heart as we have faith in His Words. God's Law is now in His people if we love Jesus (John 14:15)

Of those that posted earlier can you tell me who you think believes they are saved by the works of the Law?

All of the ones who think they still have to work at it.
Galatians 3:19,23
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

I am sorry if you got this impression. But from reading the thread I could not find any messages of anyone saying they believe they need to work to get salvation. Only that if you profess to have faith and do not have works then you do not really have faith at all. This is biblical as is shown in the fruit parables in the Gospels and James…“But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?” (James 2:20). We cannot save ourselves God saves us. It is God who works in us to will and to do of His own good pleasure (Phil 2:13) as we have faith in His Words.

After reading the whole thread recently I don't think your posts above are relevant. Maybe it’s me sometimes I am slow. Seems to me your interpretation of scripture above needs a bit more thought that is the only reason I provided the questions above.

That’s because you think its perfectly fine to work at the law. In fact you think it’s your duty. You must not understand the scriptures that are posted. They seem really straightforward to me.
God bless you
Thanks. God bless you too

Grandpa I think the above is uncalled for don't you? You do not know me and my relationship with God. Only Jesus knows me and knows if I am right with Him. I believe I am right with God because I believe His Words. How about you?

May God help you as you pray and study His Words

 

[Grace777x70]

Here is a great article that speaks about what is written on our hearts now that we are in Christ. I like to use this website as it has at the bottom a place where you can ask questions and sometimes I learn from that area a lot.

The Law Written on Our Hearts is not the Ten Commandments

This is the covenant I will make with them after that time,” says the Lord. “I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.” (Heb 10:16)

“This is obviously a reference to the law of Moses,” says the law-preacher. “The Ten Commandments were written in stone, now they’re written in the hearts and minds of God’s people.”

Not true. Here are seventeen reasons why God has not written the Ten Commandments on your heart:

1. The law inflames sin (Rom 5:20) and the strength of sin is the law (1 Cor 15:56). Why would God want to stir up sin in your life?


2. The law condemns (2 Cor 3:9), yet there is no condemnation to those in Christ.


3. The law ministers death (2 Cor 3:7), but God wants you to enjoy abundant life.


4. Law and grace don’t mix. You are under grace, not law (Rom 6:14).


5. Living by the law will alienate you from Christ (Gal 5:4).


6. Living by the law is cheating on Jesus (Rom 7:1-6). Why would God do anything to encourage spiritual adultery?


7. We’re to live by faith but the law is not of faith (Gal 3:12). The law encourages us to depend on ourselves instead of Jesus.


8. Those who live under the law are under a curse (Gal 3:10). Why would God curse those he has blessed?


9. The law binds and enslaves (Rom 7:6), but Jesus wants you free.


10. The law keeps you immature for it makes nothing perfect or complete (Heb 7:19).


11. We have died to the law so that we may serve in the new way of the Spirit and “not in the old way of the written code” (Rom 7:6).


12. When there has been a change of priesthood, the law must be changed also (Heb 7:12). For God to write the old law on our hearts would be like saying Aaron is greater than Jesus.


13. God found fault with the law-keeping covenant and made it obsolete (Heb 8:7,13). Why would God insult his Son’s sacrifice by giving you the very thing his sacrifice rendered obsolete?


14. The law is a shadow of the good things to come and not the reality (Heb 10:1). Why would God give you the shadow instead of “the good thing”?


15. The Jews considered the law to be ordained by angels (Heb 2:2). If so, says the author of Hebrews, then it is inferior to the gospel of Jesus (Heb 1:4). Why would God give you an inferior gift?


16. Some Christians think that God gives them the law as a guide to live by, but why would God want you to repeat the mistake of the Galatians (Gal 3:2)? Why would God do anything to make you fall from grace?


17. The old law-keeping covenant required an accounting or remembering of sin, but the new covenant is characterized by God forgiving and forgetting on account of Jesus (Heb 10:17).

If the law that God writes in our hearts is the law of Moses, then Jesus died for nothing.

If God has written the Ten Commandments on your heart and mind, you should be able to list all ten with no trouble. Can you? What’s the seventh commandment? You can’t do it because it’s not there, and a very good thing that is too! If the law that God writes in our hearts is the law of Moses, you’re in big trouble.

The good news is that God has written in us a far better law. What is this new and better law?

https://escapetoreality.org/2015/04/...-commandments/

 

[Grace777x70]

We can't be left hanging here about what or rather Who is written on our hearts now that we are in Christ.

What is this new law that is written on our hearts seeing as we know it's not the ten commandments in the form given in the Law.

What is this New Covenant that Ezekiel is prophesying about that was to come and now is here manifested in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection?

What is the Law Written on Our Hearts?

Six-hundred years before Jesus came, the prophet Jeremiah spoke of a new covenant that God would make with his people:


“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,” declares the Lord. “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.” (Jer 31:33-34)

What is the law that God writes on our hearts and minds? Here are three things it is not:

• It is not the law of Moses. As we saw in the last post, if God wrote the Ten Commandments on our hearts then Jesus died for nothing.

• It is not a new and improved version of the law. It is not the new commands of Jesus or the New Testament. We cannot please God by keeping a new law any more than we could please him by keeping an old one.

• It is not the knowledge of right and wrong that was bestowed upon us – against the Lord’s wishes – by Adam.

So what is this law that the Lord writes on our hearts and minds and embeds in our very being?

It is Christ Himself.

Let’s look at three things the New Testament says about the new law in our hearts.

1. The law of love

A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. (John 13:34)

Under the old law covenant, love was demanded from you. “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength.”

But under the new covenant of grace, love is given to you – “As I have loved you” – and out of the overflow of Christ’s measureless love we are able to love others.

How does it happen?

God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us. (Rom 5:5)

God abundantly pours his love into our hearts by giving us the Holy Spirit, a.k.a. the Spirit of Christ. Do you see the difference between the old and new?

• Under the old, the law was a rule for weak men to obey. Under the new, the Law is the Spirit of Christ given to us, loving us, and loving others through us.

• Under the old, you loved others because you feared punishment. But under the new, you love because a Lover lives in you and it is his nature to love.

• Under the old, you had to make an effort to obey. But under the new you have to make an effort to disobey. It’s a whole new way of life.

2. The law of the Spirit of life

It’s important that you understand the difference between the old law (a written code you can’t keep) and the new Law (Christ himself, living in you). Try and live by the old laws, as Paul did, and it make you miserable:

What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? (Rom 7:24)

Paul couldn’t keep the old law no matter how hard he tried. He needed a new law and that new law is a Who:

Who will rescue me…? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Rom 7:24-25a)

Do you see? The old law is a what; the new law is a Who. The old law ministers condemnation and death (2 Cor 3:7-9), but the new “law of the Spirit gives life” (Rom 8:2).

For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. (2 Cor 3:6)

Who gives life? Not a set of rules, but the Spirit of Christ within you. The new law is a Who.

3. The perfect law of liberty

James wrote of “the perfect law that gives freedom” (Jas 1:25), which can be contrasted with the law of Moses that binds (Rom 7:6).

What is the perfect law that gives freedom? Well, what is the implanted word that can save you (Jas 1:21)? It’s not the Ten Commandments or the Bible. It’s Jesus, the living Word who sets us free.

The perfect law of liberty describes what Jesus has done (perfectly fulfilled or completed the law) and the fruit he will bear in our lives (liberty) if we trust him.

But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it – not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it – they will be blessed in what they do. (Jas 1:25)

Look into the mirror of Moses’ law and you will be miserable, for it exposes all your faults. But look into the perfect law which is Jesus and you will be blessed, for it reveals His righteousness.

“Don’t just listen but do what it (the perfect law of liberty) says” (Jas 1:22). In other words, allow the Spirit of Christ to convince you that in him you are righteous and holy.

Don’t walk away from the perfect law and forget who you are in Christ. Fix your eyes on Jesus. Look intently with an unveiled face and be transformed into his likeness.

The Law written in our hearts is Jesus

Jeremiah said those who had the new law written on their hearts would know the Lord and would no longer need others to teach them. This is describing your union with Christ. One with the Lord you have the mind of Christ (1 Cor 2:16). His Spirit dwells in you and teaches you all things (John 14:26).

The law of the Lord written into your members is your Father’s spiritual DNA. It is the seed of God birthed in you by the Holy Spirit. It’s Jesus Himself.

How do you know He’s there? Because you are a new creation with new hopes and desires. You no longer want to sin.

Your desire is to love God and others and that desire has nothing to do with old rules written in stone.

Christian, you are who you are because Christ lives in you. He is the new law written, by God, in your heart and mind.

https://escapetoreality.org/2015/04/...on-our-hearts/

 

[LoveGodForever]

Hello Grace777, Thanks for your comments.

Here is a great article that speaks about what is written on our hearts now that we are in Christ. I like to use this website as it has at the bottom a place where you can ask questions and sometimes I learn from that area a lot.

You seem to like to cut and paste a lot of other people’s comments but do you study God’s Word for yourself how do you know if what you have posted is someone’s false teachings? Let’s have a look at what you have posted here and see what God’s Word says…

The Law Written on Our Hearts is not the Ten CommandmentsThis is the covenant I will make with them after that time,” says the Lord. “I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.” (Heb 10:16)

“This is obviously a reference to the law of Moses,” says the law-preacher. “The Ten Commandments were written in stone, now they’re written in the hearts and minds of God’s people.” Not true. Here are seventeen reasons why God has not written the Ten Commandments on your heart:

So I gather you did not read anything in my previous post or any of the scripture references from the Old Testament explaining what the laws of Moses are and the Law of God? Just saying the law of Moses, the law of Moses does not mean that God’s Law is the law of Moses my friend. If God’s Word says something I think we should believe it don’t you?

1. The law inflames sin (Rom 5:20) and the strength of sin is the law (1 Cor 15:56). Why would God want to stir up sin in your life?

So what are you actually saying or implying Grace777? Are you saying that we can sin and that is ok? Let’s follow the conclusion of what the scripture is saying and the conclusion of what you are promoting shall we? The actual meaning of the scripture you quoted can be referenced by other scriptures which tell us very plainly that Sin is the transgression of God’s Law and without the Law is no knowledge of sin (1John 3:3; Rom 7:7). Now reading God’s Word in context, this is the conclusion of your interpretation on the scripture. If we have no law and no knowledge of sin. If we do not have any knowledge of what sin is than we have no need of a Saviour. If we have no need of a Saviour to save us from our sins then we have no salvation. We are therefore lost. Rom 2:12, “For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.” (Rom 2:12-13).

2. The law condemns (2 Cor 3:9), yet there is no condemnation to those in Christ.

Don’t you think using this argument is a contradiction to the argument of point 1? The Law of God indeed condemns the sinner and points out sin and shows us our need of a Saviour to save us from our sins. It is the schoolmaster that tells us when we sin and that the wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23). Without the Law of God you have no Gospel because it is the only means that shows us our need of salvation and points us to the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

3. The law ministers death (2 Cor 3:7), but God wants you to enjoy abundant life.

Absolutely! “But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. But go ye and learn what that means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.” (Matt 9:12-13). You cannot separate God’s Law from the Cross because this is the Gospel that everything in the Old Testament and the Sanctuary services pointed to.

4. Law and grace don’t mix. You are under grace, not law (Rom 6:14).

Well this is starting off with a false premise followed by a false interpretation. I can repeat what has already been said already above in points 1-3 but for those reading. It is true salvation is a gift of God (unmerited favour) and there is nothing that we can do to earn it. But you cannot find Jesus without the Law because it is through the Law that we find Him. Then Jesus says “If you love me keep my commandments (the new covenant) John 14:15.

5. Living by the law will alienate you from Christ (Gal 5:4).

You know you are quoting a verse above that is talking about circumcision don’t you? (go and check the context). Ok side issue, what passage is talking about is that circumcision is that of the heart (new covenant God’s Laws written in our hearts) through the power of the Holy Spirit and we cannot save ourselves in our own strength by trying to keep God’s Laws. Salvation from sin is God’s work in us as we believe His Words. So the false premise above “Living by the law will alienate you from Christ” is not from God’s Word.

6. Living by the law is cheating on Jesus (Rom 7:1-6). Why would God do anything to encourage spiritual adultery?

Do you really believe that living by God’s Law is cheating on Jesus? It is more the other way around living without God’s Law is cheating on Jesus. Funny you miss out on the very next verse that says “What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.” The whole chapter is talking about the carnal man and salvation from sin by faith in God’s Word. “Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.” (Rom 7:12)

7. We’re to live by faith but the law is not of faith (Gal 3:12). The law encourages us to depend on ourselves instead of Jesus.

Absolutely! It is by believing God’s Word that we are to follow Jesus. But remember the fruit of Faith is obedience to the Word of God. “But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith.” (Rom 16:26)

8. Those who live under the law are under a curse (Gal 3:10). Why would God curse those he has blessed?

Living under the Law means to be guilty of breaking the Law and the wages of Sin is Death (Rom 6:23 the curse) because through the Law is the knowledge of sin and sin is the transgression of God’s Law (1John 3:4)

9. The law binds and enslaves (Rom 7:6), but Jesus wants you free.

Absolutely! “Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.” And the servant abides not in the house for ever: but the Son abides ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. (John 8:34-36)

10. The law keeps you immature for it makes nothing perfect or complete (Heb 7:19).

Absolutely!It points out sin and brings us to the cross (1John 3:4; John 3:16). Only complete dependence on Jesus (the Word of God) can save us from our sins. “Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.” (2Cor 7:1)

11. We have died to the law so that we may serve in the new way of the Spirit and “not in the old way of the written code” (Rom 7:6).

Repetition saying the same thing as Points 6 and 9 please see comments from point 6 and 9 already answered.

12. When there has been a change of priesthood, the law must be changed also (Heb 7:12). For God to write the old law on our hearts would be like saying Aaron is greater than Jesus.

That statement just does not make any sense? You need to study the Sanctuary service in the Old Covenant which was a pattern of the heavenly and what the new covenant is. In the Sanctuary God’s Law was kept in the Holy of Holies. This is a pattern of the Heavenly Sanctuary (Heb 4:12-16; 7:23-25, 8:1-6 etc) Gods Law has never changed and will be the great standard in God’s Judgement (Rom 2:12). The new covenant has already been covered“For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people.” (Heb 8:10; 10:16 quoted from the Old Testament Jeremiah 31:33-34)

13. God found fault with the law-keeping covenant and made it obsolete (Heb 8:7,13). Why would God insult his Son’s sacrifice by giving you the very thing his sacrifice rendered obsolete?

You continue with false premises that have no basis in God’s Word. God’s Word says…
“I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.” (Ecc 3:14). Hebrews 8 is talking about the old and new covenants and His Laws written in our hearts not on tables of stone (see Hebrews in context and includeHeb 8:10; 10:16 quoted from the Old Testament Jeremiah 31:33-34).

14. The law is a shadow of the good things to come and not the reality (Heb 10:1). Why would God give you the shadow instead of “the good thing”?

Because the Law points us to Jesus who can save us from our sins (Gal 3:24-26)

15. The Jews considered the law to be ordained by angels (Heb 2:2). If so, says the author of Hebrews, then it is inferior to the gospel of Jesus (Heb 1:4). Why would God give you an inferior gift?

It would be good for others to read Hebrews Chapter 2 the interpretation above is not from God’s Word. Heb 2:2-3 says “For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him”

16. Some Christians think that God gives them the law as a guide to live by, but why would God want you to repeat the mistake of the Galatians (Gal 3:2)? Why would God do anything to make you fall from grace?

Why do you continue to think we believe that we are saved by the Works of the Law? I have already shared with you that this is not the case. So this is a judgement on your part that is not true. Be aware of Matt 7:1-2

17. The old law-keeping covenant required an accounting or remembering of sin, but the new covenant is characterized by God forgiving and forgetting on account of Jesus (Heb 10:17). If the law that God writes in our hearts is the law of Moses, then Jesus died for nothing.

Sorry false premises again. The Word of God clearly shows that the laws of Moses are not God’s Law (10 commandments). It was because of God’s Law that Jesus needed to die because all have sinned and fell short of God’s Glory and the wages of sin was death. He died that those that believe might live.

If God has written the Ten Commandments on your heart and mind, you should be able to list all ten with no trouble. Can you? What’s the seventh commandment? You can’t do it because it’s not there, and a very good thing that is too! If the law that God writes in our hearts is the law of Moses, you’re in big trouble. The good news is that God has written in us a far better law. What is this new and better law?

My friend you need to read the Bible and understand the Good news. We have a Saviour that can save us from our sins not in sin. When someone comes to Jesus by believing God’s Word, God’s Law become His promises as we believe Him.
“Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.” (2Pet 1:4) I hope this helps some of your misunderstandings Grace777.

May God bless and help you.

 

[LoveGodForever]

We can't be left hanging here about what or rather Who is written on our hearts now that we are in Christ.

Hi Grace777,

I can cut and paste many things from other people as well. How do you know if what they are saying is right? Do you study God's Word for yourself? Do you believe we are living in the end times where Jesus says that there will be many false teachers to deceive if possible God's very elect? How do you know you have God's truth? Just a few things to think about my friend.

God bless you

 

[Grace777x70]

Sorry false premises again. The Word of God clearly shows that the laws of Moses are not God’s Law (10 commandments). It was because of God’s Law that Jesus needed to die because all have sinned and fell short of God’s Glory and the wages of sin was death. He died that those that believe might live.



My friend you need to read the Bible and understand the Good news. We have a Saviour that can save us from our sins not in sin. When someone comes to Jesus by believing God’s Word, God’s Law become His promises as we believe Him.
“Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.” (2Pet 1:4) I hope this helps some of your misunderstandings Grace777.

May God bless and help you.

Hi LoveGodForever,

Thank you for your completely false characterization of my studying the word of God and posting false things. I say the exact same thing to you and hope you come to a knowledge of the true gospel of the grace of God in Christ's finished work and come out of your false religious traditions and teachings.

But - you are free to believe what you want. You are allowed to believe that Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of revelation if you want to.

I will address the openly foolish statement that God's 10 commandments are not part of the law. It is highlighted in brown above.

The 10 commandments are definitely part of the law of Moses.

Paul who knew the Law better than anyone --says that the 10 commandments are the Law. Sorry...there is no separating them no matter how much we were religiously taught in church.

Here is Paul saying without a doubt that "coveting" is in the Law...unless coveting is not one of the 10 commandments. Is this true? Coveting is not one of the 10 commandments anymore?

Maybe "coveting" got kicked out of the 10 commandments because it got caught "coveting"?

Romans 7:7-9 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."

[SUP]8 [/SUP]But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.

 

[Grace777x70]

Hi Grace777,

I can cut and paste many things from other people as well. How do you know if what they are saying is right? Do you study God's Word for yourself? Do you believe we are living in the end times where Jesus says that there will be many false teachers to deceive if possible God's very elect? How do you know you have God's truth? Just a few things to think about my friend.

God bless you

I have studied the scriptures for hours on end for years. My previous work and my retirement have made this possible. I realize it "conflicts" with some of your religious beliefs and some church traditions you were taught and thus to you they are error and I understand that part in you.

It's ok - I was like that too at one time and still am in some un-renewed areas of my mind but the Lord is revealing more of the glorious truths that are in the mystery of Christ Himself and the riches of the glory of that mystery is Christ is in us!

I believe that the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord! The glory of the Lord is the knowledge of His goodness which He has lavished upon us in Christ.

Bless you....All is well..keep asking the Lord to show you more of Christ and the Holy Spirit will show you things that will make your heart sing and your life full of joy and wonder at the majestic beauty of all that He has already done for us because of His great love and grace.

Just a few things to think about my precious brother.

We have a great salvation in Christ our Lord and Master and a good, good Father who doesn't throw His beloved children into hell.

Isn't that good news?

 

[Grandpa]

Originally Posted by Grandpa

What is the new covenant?

Matthew 11:28Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. That's the cornerstone of it, ironically enough.

The text you quoted above is a great promise to God’s people. God’s Word however is very clear as to what the new covenant is….

“For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people.” (Heb 8:10; 10:16 quoted from the Old Testament Jeremiah 31:33-34)

Our rest is from trying to keep God’s Laws in our own strength. God changes our heart as we believe and depend on the same creative power of His Words for our salvation. Now we follow Jesus because we love him. This is the work of God writing His Law (10 commandments) in our heart as we have faith in His Words. God's Law is now in His people if we love Jesus (John 14:15)

I'm not sure how much of this to explain to you.

The 10 commandments aren't written into anyones hearts or minds. The 10 commandments are requirements. They are death and condemnation to us.

The Law that is written into our hearts and minds is life everlasting. Its Joy and Peace and Faith and Love.

And the time that this happens in a Christians life is when...

They come to Christ and receive rest. The fulfillment of what the Law Requires.

The Law requires rest. We receive rest from Christ.
The Law requires love. We receive love from Christ.

So when you work at the law in your own understanding you are rejecting what Christ has given. You reject His Wisdom. His Strength. His Love. For what reason? Your own understanding and pride in its place.

Galatians 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

You aren't dead to the law if you are working at it. If you are attempting to keep a saturday sabbath then you are working at the law. Its pretty simple, right?

Originally Posted by Grandpa

After reading the whole thread recently I don't think your posts above are relevant. Maybe it’s me sometimes I am slow. Seems to me your interpretation of scripture above needs a bit more thought that is the only reason I provided the questions above.

That’s because you think its perfectly fine to work at the law. In fact you think it’s your duty. You must not understand the scriptures that are posted. They seem really straightforward to me.
God bless you
Thanks. God bless you too

Grandpa I think the above is uncalled for don't you? You do not know me and my relationship with God. Only Jesus knows me and knows if I am right with Him. I believe I am right with God because I believe His Words. How about you?

May God help you as you pray and study His Words

No, not at all. I think its spot on.

By everything that you have just posted wouldn't you yourself say that its true???

Which part did you think is uncalled for?

 

[LoveGodForever]

Hi LoveGodForever,

Thank you for your completely false characterization of my studying the word of God and posting false things. I say the exact same thing to you and hope you come to a knowledge of the true gospel of the grace of God in Christ's finished work and come out of your false religious traditions and teachings. But - you are free to believe what you want. You are allowed to believe that Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of revelation if you want to.

Hi Grace777,

Could it be because your interpretation of God's Word is not correct?
Why do you need to get upset because I present the Word of God?
Do you study God's Word for yourself asking that Jesus might be your teacher?

Just repeating yourself does not mean what your saying is correct. You are not mad at me my friend. It is God's Word that has shown what you have presented is not correct and if so why do you not believe the Word of God?

May God help you and bless you in His Words

 

[Grace777x70]

Hi Grace777,

Could it be because your interpretation of God's Word is not correct?
Why do you need to get upset because I present the Word of God?
Do you study God's Word for yourself asking that Jesus might be your teacher?

You are not mad at me my friend. It is God's Word that has shown what you have presented is not correct and if so why do you not believe the Word of God?

May God help you and bless you in His Words

Could it be that your interpretation of God's word is not correct?

I'm not upset when you post. You are free to post whatever you want. I do recognize your attempt to say ( deceitfully I might add ) that I get upset because you post "the word of God."

I actually do study the word of God and in Greek and Hebrew using many sources and NO - I don't not ask for Jesus to be my teacher. I ask the Father for the Holy Spirit who Jesus said would be my teacher to reveal Christ to me. I talk to the Lord all the time though.

I am not mad at you at all. Your perception is way off base.

I do however recognize the spiritual manipulation that you try to do when you say - " It is God's Word that has shown what you have presented is not correct and if so why do you not believe the Word of God?"

This is really "code" for - you are not believing what I believe and thus you are against the word of God as I see it.

For the record I don't believe it is intentional.......it is a fruit of the way we are taught in some religious circles.



I say this about you my friend:

Philippians 1:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.


Bless you and have a great day.

I'm off to do some "studying" of the truths of Christ and His glorious finished work on the cross and resurrection. I love to feed on Him. He is my life.