Satan in a perfect world

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Embankment

Senior Member
#1
Feb 28, 2017
693
190
43
#1
Genesis says God created the universe and it was good. God created Adam & Eve & they sinned bringing a curse & sin on the earth. Many would say that before this curse the world was perfect with no death or disease or hardship. Satan was in the world before the fall of Adam & Eve, after all he tempted them. How could Satan be in a perfect or good world? It seems evil and sin would have had to exist through him and he was in the garden.
To my main question.
Did death & disease exist in animal and plant life before the fall of man? Where there storms & natural disasters?
Did the fall of Adam & Eve only bring death and disease to humans or curse the whole world? Is it another scenario altogether? I am struggling with the time line of this & how and if the original sin is the cause of death, disease, earthquakes, storms and all things negative in the world. I would like to hear your ideas on this. Thanks!
 
wolfwint

wolfwint

Senior Member
#2
Feb 15, 2014
3,591
879
113
61
#2
Embankment said:
Genesis says God created the universe and it was good. God created Adam & Eve & they sinned bringing a curse & sin on the earth. Many would say that before this curse the world was perfect with no death or disease or hardship. Satan was in the world before the fall of Adam & Eve, after all he tempted them. How could Satan be in a perfect or good world? It seems evil and sin would have had to exist through him and he was in the garden.
To my main question.
Did death & disease exist in animal and plant life before the fall of man? Where there storms & natural disasters?
Did the fall of Adam & Eve only bring death and disease to humans or curse the whole world? Is it another scenario altogether? I am struggling with the time line of this & how and if the original sin is the cause of death, disease, earthquakes, storms and all things negative in the world. I would like to hear your ideas on this. Thanks!
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I would say, that before the fall of Adam and Eva, there was no death and disease and earthquakes (in this time there was only one kontinent- landmass) in the world. We read in Genesis 9 1+2 that God gave Noah and the mankind everything was lives as food and also the green plants. I believe that before Genesis 3, 21 no animal dies. Animals and Adam and Eva lived togehter with no harm. There was no fear! And alos they lived in fellowship with God who used to visit them and talked togehter. There is no hint which gives the opinion that before sinfall death, disease and kathastrophes has been in the world.
 
Johnny_B

Johnny_B

Senior Member
#3
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
64
48
#3
Romans 8:18-23 "For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope;because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body."

The Bible doesn't say anything about weather animals died or had disease, if there were earthquakes, you would think that there were no earthquakes because of what Romans 8 says. Adam and Eve didn't eat meat, God did tell man to eat meat until after the flood. Genesis 9:3 "Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs."
 
Zmouth

Zmouth

Senior Member
#4
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#4
Since Genesis tells you that your God created the universe in the beginning, then if the eternal does not have a beginning of existence, nor end of existence and neither does it change in nature or form then wouldn't anything that came from the eternal God also be eternal?
 
L

Lorettamarie

Junior Member
#5
Mar 22, 2017
25
0
0
#5
Lucifer had no authority to effect change in this world until man gave it to him through the fall
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#6
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#6
The creation was good. Not perfect, only God is perfect. Everything that is created has some limits.

We know from fossiles that there were many giant creatures before human race appeared so yes, there was death before Adam.
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#7
Jul 24, 2016
7,443
3,497
113
#7
Embankment said:
Genesis says God created the universe and it was good. God created Adam & Eve & they sinned bringing a curse & sin on the earth. Many would say that before this curse the world was perfect with no death or disease or hardship. Satan was in the world before the fall of Adam & Eve, after all he tempted them. How could Satan be in a perfect or good world? It seems evil and sin would have had to exist through him and he was in the garden.
To my main question.
Did death & disease exist in animal and plant life before the fall of man? Where there storms & natural disasters?
Did the fall of Adam & Eve only bring death and disease to humans or curse the whole world? Is it another scenario altogether? I am struggling with the time line of this & how and if the original sin is the cause of death, disease, earthquakes, storms and all things negative in the world. I would like to hear your ideas on this. Thanks!
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satan was not part of the earth/human creation.. So the world and Adam and eve where good but satan came into the world but was not part of the world and was bad... God only said that his Unioverse creation was Good.. He never said satan was.. There is no "" and on the forth day God created satan and he was good"" scrpture in the genisis account..

Did death & disease exist in animal and plant life before the fall of man? Where there storms & natural disasters?
Click to expand...
No recording of any such thing is in the Bible..

Did the fall of Adam & Eve only bring death and disease to humans or curse the whole world?
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I believe it cursed the whole world because death only came into existence when Eve and Adam obtained the knowledge of Good and Evil..
 
I

imfinallyfree

Banned
#8
Dec 17, 2013
822
7
0
#8
There are a few time frame indiscrepancies as pertains to the Bible ,I think that that is because of personal interpretations.

A big one for me and one that I complain about is that it says something like after the end of the world and the bad people (I just say bad because I don't think that its my place to call anyone a sinner) are thrown in the lake of fire that He will rule with a iron fist or staff or something anyways the meaning conveyed is that He is a "hard liner" or "hawk" in modern world politcal terms.

How's He go from being such a nice guy that everyone goes to Heaven to ruling with a iron fist?

I think that it's just personal interpretation.
 
A

adhidw

Member
#10
May 20, 2016
66
3
8
#10
Embankment said:
Genesis says God created the universe and it was good. God created Adam & Eve & they sinned bringing a curse & sin on the earth. Many would say that before this curse the world was perfect with no death or disease or hardship. Satan was in the world before the fall of Adam & Eve, after all he tempted them. How could Satan be in a perfect or good world? It seems evil and sin would have had to exist through him and he was in the garden.
To my main question.
Did death & disease exist in animal and plant life before the fall of man? Where there storms & natural disasters?
Did the fall of Adam & Eve only bring death and disease to humans or curse the whole world? Is it another scenario altogether? I am struggling with the time line of this & how and if the original sin is the cause of death, disease, earthquakes, storms and all things negative in the world. I would like to hear your ideas on this. Thanks!
Click to expand...
1.Satan was in the world before the fall of Adam & Eve, after all he tempted them. How could Satan be in a perfect or good world? It seems evil and sin would have had to exist through him and he was in the garden.
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1.May be these question help us leading to the answer;
What’s for God creates humans in the world ?
Why not began from the faithful angels then given the glorious bodies and placed in the eternal land ?
Why not they were created altogether as many as God wanted (all names in the book of life before the creation of the world ) ?.
Eph1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: ”in him” = saved by His Grace.
His people were planed to receive His Grace ,even before this world were created, and if His people were good in the first place , did they need any Grace for saving ? or should they transform to be a certain condition that it was necessity for the Grace?.
Rom8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope (parallel to Eph1:4)


2.Did death & disease exist in animal and plant life before the fall of man? Where there storms & natural disasters?
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2.No

3.Did the fall of Adam & Eve only bring death and disease to humans or curse the whole world?
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3.The format of this perishable realm.
By then the Growth can be achieved ( only in the perishable realm there are growth, and not in the eternal realm ).


4.Is it another scenario altogether?
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4.Men can bring glory to God if : they begin from zero state then reach the full state.
This possibility should be began only in this perishable realm.
 
so-jesus-e-deus

so-jesus-e-deus

Senior Member
#12
Feb 7, 2017
1,605
140
63
#12
Lorettamarie said:
Lucifer had no authority to effect change in this world until man gave it to him through the fall
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I agree with you, sister Lorettamarie.
And I add, sister, that if Adam had fulfilled his role of bearing fruit, multiplying, and filling the earth (Genesis 1:28), sin would never have entered the world.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#13
Jul 3, 2015
56,155
26,210
113
#13
so-jesus-e-deus said:
I agree with you, sister Lorettamarie.
And I add, sister, that if Adam had fulfilled his role of bearing fruit, multiplying, and filling the earth (Genesis 1:28), sin would never have entered the world.
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Sin and death entered the world due to Adam's disobedience, in eating of the forbidden tree of knowledge of good and evil, not because he did not go forth and multiply. Since you have no idea how many children Adam and Eve had, I find your assertion strange on two fronts, and quite against Scripture.
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#14
#14
The name lucifer and the name satan, these seem to have to different meanings one of before and one after the fall.
 
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