Does A Perfect God Lead to Atheism?

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K

kaylagrl

Guest
#1
I wouldn't normally share from this site,let alone twice. But it has opened some interesting discussions. I,of course,disagree with the author. But he says a perfect God cannot relate to man. Your thoughts?


Why a Perfect God Can Only Lead to Atheism
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
24,799
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#2
The flaw is that the author assumes a perfect God would have a perfect creation, therefore no need to act on or in His creation. We have a perfect God who is dealing with a creation that WAS perfect but no longer is perfect, because His people broke His creation.
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#3
The flaw is that the author assumes a perfect God would have a perfect creation, therefore no need to act on or in His creation. We have a perfect God who is dealing with a creation that WAS perfect but no longer is perfect, because His people broke His creation.
That explains the four leaf clover.
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
24,799
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#4
No, that's just lucky if you find one. :D
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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#5
I have no answer to give. The title question itself totally baffles me.. lol
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#6
No, that's just lucky if you find one. :D
Indeed, IMO like everything God created perfectly imperfect, was good and very good yet imperfectly perfect.
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#7
Only God is perfect in everyway, His creations in the universe was made to adapt, evolve, transition, without it things wouldn't progress.
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
24,799
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#8
I have no answer to give. The title question itself totally baffles me.. lol
Shoulda read the article...

Though in fairness a brief synopsis of the article in the OP would have helped.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#9
Shoulda read the article...

Though in fairness a brief synopsis of the article in the OP would have helped.

Well the article is very brief. I figured people wouldn't mind taking a couple minutes to read.
 
J

Johnjo

Guest
#10
I wouldn't normally share from this site,let alone twice. But it has opened some interesting discussions. I,of course,disagree with the author. But he says a perfect God cannot relate to man. Your thoughts?


Why a Perfect God Can Only Lead to Atheism
I think this could be compared to a geopolitical situation, where some countries are downsizing their defence budgets, because they can no longer recognize their enemies. From their side of the fence the world looks perfect, and they don't need the military anymore.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#11
I have no answer to give. The title question itself totally baffles me.. lol

Well the author certainly isn't using common sense. He says that if God is perfect and unchangeable how can He relate to His creation which are always changing and imperfect.He certainly is reaching. So I started the thread to see how one would answer what the author said. Is God perfect?Does God change? I thought there may be some interesting discussion on that topic.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,097
6,480
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#12
Shoulda read the article...

Though in fairness a brief synopsis of the article in the OP would have helped.
I wouldn't click on the link........who knows what might get downloaded from it to my 'puter? The "brief synopsis" thingy was a good idea though...........
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#13
I wouldn't click on the link........who knows what might get downloaded from it to my 'puter? The "brief synopsis" thingy was a good idea though...........
Read my last post:)
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#14
An excerpt from the link...

An immutable God cannot move, cannot act, but can only exist as the opposite from everything else, like some divine dark matter.
The inherent problem with projecting a perfect God is that it leaves theology nowhere to go, and nothing to do. Theology that has nowhere to go is simply metaphysics. By definition, “metaphysics” are concepts that deal with abstractions and have no basis in reality. Thinking about God in a way that matters must have something to do with reality and must connect with people.
Many of us would prefer a God who connects with reality and connects with people. If God were wholly and ultimately unchanging and unable to change, what would be our connecting point? There would be none.
The contemporary predicament of God is one of misperception. The traditional theistic classification of God emphasizes the changelessness of God, the extreme independence of God, the absolute control of God, and God’s perfection.
The perfect God becomes only a God of abstraction who is disconnected from such foundational things as goodness and beauty.
There is a distance between this God and the God of the Hebrew and Christian scriptures, who is also the God of human experience.
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#15
An excerpt from the link...

An immutable God cannot move, cannot act, but can only exist as the opposite from everything else, like some divine dark matter.
The inherent problem with projecting a perfect God is that it leaves theology nowhere to go, and nothing to do. Theology that has nowhere to go is simply metaphysics. By definition, “metaphysics” are concepts that deal with abstractions and have no basis in reality. Thinking about God in a way that matters must have something to do with reality and must connect with people.
Many of us would prefer a God who connects with reality and connects with people. If God were wholly and ultimately unchanging and unable to change, what would be our connecting point? There would be none.
The contemporary predicament of God is one of misperception. The traditional theistic classification of God emphasizes the changelessness of God, the extreme independence of God, the absolute control of God, and God’s perfection.
The perfect God becomes only a God of abstraction who is disconnected from such foundational things as goodness and beauty.
There is a distance between this God and the God of the Hebrew and Christian scriptures, who is also the God of human experience.
Only thing I can say is, I guess the last sentence explains the difference in his view I assume.

The athiest god, and the reality of God.
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
24,799
8,103
113
#16
I wouldn't click on the link........who knows what might get downloaded from it to my 'puter? The "brief synopsis" thingy was a good idea though...........
cough*Linux*cough

I CLICK ON ANYTHING WITH NO FEAR! Bwahahahaha! Neither worm nor trojan nor spyware can harm me!
 
Last edited:
Feb 24, 2015
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#17
I wouldn't normally share from this site,let alone twice. But it has opened some interesting discussions. I,of course,disagree with the author. But he says a perfect God cannot relate to man. Your thoughts?
Why a Perfect God Can Only Lead to Atheism
I agree with the author. A lot of these dilemmas are linguistic rather than conceptual.

Immutable - unchanging

My picture of God from scripture and in my heart is he is consistent.
His desire in relationship is to create infinite diversity and exploration of the possible.
Look at creation around us. It is all about adapting to changing circumstance to bring
about life and variety. To be unchanging is to be dead. The absence of life is immutable.

So immutable in terms of God means he always loves, is always faithful, always righteous,
always perfect and true. How this is expressed changes and the different ways you can
view things are balanced out.

For instance God wants to destroy Israel, and make a nation out of Moses, but Moses
reminds the Lord of His promises and commitment to bring about a nation of His choosing
out of this people, and though they are failures and sinners, still His purposes can be
fulfilled through them. And the Lord brings judgement but also brings his purposes about
through those faithful to Him.

So this ex-pastor is right that immutable in the extreme interpretation denies God and His
nature, used in a biblical context it describes Gods nature as totally consistent.

I do wonder at these definition criticisms, they are just so shallow.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#18
I wouldn't normally share from this site,let alone twice. But it has opened some interesting discussions. I,of course,disagree with the author. But he says a perfect God cannot relate to man. Your thoughts?


Why a Perfect God Can Only Lead to Atheism
I can see why he is a "former" pastor. That God is immutable speaks to His unchanging perfect nature, not to His being limited to always acting as He has in the past.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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#19
Complete and utter non-sense.

The only thing that leads to atheism is pride and stupidity.

The fool has said in his heart 'there is no God'.


A perfect God leads to the desire to be perfect.


But if you desire to be your own God then you want to portray yourself as the only one.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,821
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#20
How does God create love without making robots?

I think He gives a piece of Himself while somehow allowing for free will. Please don't ask me how He achieves this seeming paradox, but part of the answer is to create with the POTENTIAL for imperfection.