Does God Create People Today?

[maxwel]

If we're going to ask a question based on the word "created"... we need to define the world.

It can mean different things, and be used in different ways.

Examples:

A. God can create a universe out of nothingness

B. God can create a living being (Adam) out of the inorganic elements of the earth

C. I can create a chair out of wood, a substance which is fully formed, and entirely ready to be used by man.

D. I can something "indirectly" by hiring contractors to build a house... in one sense I "created" it, and in another sense I did not.

E. I can also create abstract ideas, which aren't physical at all, and write them down.



* There are many ways we use the word "create."

* There is also a distinction between words like "created", "formed", and "made".


We can't argue about whether or not something is "created" until we first decide upon precisely what "created" means.
In what way are we choosing to use that word?

If we don't define how we're using the word... we're all arguing about a lot of nothing.


And yes, this IS how proper theology is done.

 

[valiant]

I think we get our answer in what Paul wrote to the Corinthians...


1 Corinthians 15:45-47
So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being;” the last Adam a life-giving spirit.

46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual.

47 The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven


So per scripture, humans aren't particularly spirit beings until they accept Christ and are born anew. Anyone from the first man is a body from the (animated) dust of the earth, and they don't become "spirit" until from Christ.

The original meaning of "spirit" is "breath", so I have to figure if God himself breathes into anything, that one breath is UNBELIEVABLY potent and will most assuredly be enough to animate generations upon generations upon generations of bodies (as they multiply themselves) before God's breath starts to lose its potency. And if we place the original meaning of "spirit" back into the following text this makes sense the most:

Genesis 6:3
My [breath] will not always continue with man for he is flesh, yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years.

Originally Posted by valiant

The body comes by natural birth processes. The question is whether the spirit of each man is individually created by God, or whether He has another way of incorporating the non material spirit

It does not matter what name we give it, ALL men have a non-material soul or spirit. And the problem is as to how that is passed on. It is not a result of physical birth which can only produce physical. So is it separately transplanted by God, or is it a new creation?

 

[blue_ladybug]

Create, in the sense that God creates us before He puts us in the womb..

If we're going to ask a question based on the word "created"... we need to define the world.

It can mean different things, and be used in different ways.
Examples:
A. God can create a universe out of nothingness

B. God can create a living being (Adam) out of the inorganic elements of the earth

C. I can create a chair out of wood, a substance which is fully formed, and entirely ready to be used by man.

D. I can something "indirectly" by hiring contractors to build a house... in one sense I "created" it, and in another sense I did not.

E. I can also create abstract ideas, which aren't physical at all, and write them down.



* There are many ways we use the word "create."

* There is also a distinction between words like "created", "formed", and "made".


We can't argue about whether or not something is "created" until we first know what created means.
In what way are we choosing to use that word?

If we don't define how we're using the word... we're all arguing about a lot of nothing.


And yes, this IS how proper theology is done.

 

[maxwel]

Create, in the sense that God creates us before He puts us in the womb..

Try rethinking that, and saying it more precisely.

I don't think you said what you meant.

Do you believe you are created BEFORE the sperm and egg make contact?
Do you think you are physically created somewhere else?
Where exactly would that be?
Where exactly are you BEFORE the sperm and egg make contact?
I don't think this is what you meant to say.

Try thinking through it, and saying something more precise.

I'm not trying to be obnoxious... this is the actual thought process we must go through to dig into doctrinal issues.

 

[stonesoffire]

Just to throw a cog into the wheel...

A minister that was taken to heaven, saw spirit babies being sent by Father. I have no doubt that this actually happened.

And I don't understand it. As far as scripture? have none. yet anyway.

 

[blue_ladybug]

1. That's what I'm trying to find out. LOL. Whether God formed me before the sperm and egg did the horizontal tango. The scripture that Dcon gave, indicates that God DOES know us before He forms us in the womb. Some here argue that God only "knew" those who He called as prophets. Well who's to say He hasn't called US as prophets?

2. I think ALL creation is created by God, WHERE EVER He may choose to create it.

Try rethinking that, and saying it more precisely.

I don't think you said what you meant.

Do you believe you are created BEFORE the sperm and egg make contact?
Do you think you are physically created somewhere else?
Where exactly would that be?
Where exactly are you BEFORE the sperm and egg make contact?
I don't think this is what you meant to say.

Try thinking through it, and saying something more precise.

I'm not trying to be obnoxious... this is the actual thought process we must go through to dig into doctrinal issues.

 

[stonesoffire]

Wouldn't the soulish part of us be an inheritance from families genes? Body too.

 

[wsblind]

This isn't what I'm asking. I want to know if He knows us before we are formed in the womb. Surely He must know who of us will accept Him and be called His children..

He know's who is going to believe and not believe.

What we overlook is what we can't see and understand. For those who never choose to be His Children and be saved they have a perfect,all seeing God that gives them their perfect opportunity,perfect chance and their perfect way to choose His life or death. There is not going to be ONE person who is surprised at their final destination.

The Holy Spirit does His Job and He does it perfectly.........with every person who has ever lived.

Based on His Grace. For those who have never believed and died. How long does the brain stay active after our final breath? An out of time,all knowing God can probably do some of His best witnessing at this time and we will never see it.

 

[blue_ladybug]

When I was in the Mormon church, that's what they believe. That we are spirits before we are born, and through our free will we can choose our path in life before it even starts. Makes sense to the simple mind, or maybe just to me because I HAVE a simple mind.. lol

Just to throw a cog into the wheel...

A minister that was taken to heaven, saw spirit babies being sent by Father. I have no doubt that this actually happened.

And I don't understand it. As far as scripture? have none. yet anyway.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Well, if GOD is the one who gives us a soul, how can it possibly be an "inheritance" from family genes? I mean, inheriting things such as grandma's dimples or daddy's smile, yeah. LOL. But I don't think the soul is a familial inheritance.

Wouldn't the soulish part of us be an inheritance from families genes? Body too.

 

[stonesoffire]

I don't know anything about the Mormon church blue.

What the spirit babies were asking for was to be redeemed. ??? Apparently, our desire is to be redeemed. At least that is how I see it right now.

This serpent seed thing has kind of crept into thinking by Jesus calling Pharisees sons of vipers. I don't agree with this because God has lumped all mankind under sin. Is a mindset more...again, my opinion. Opinions are subject to truth though.

 

[maxwel]

When I was in the Mormon church, that's what they believe. That we are spirits before we are born, and through our free will we can choose our path in life before it even starts. Makes sense to the simple mind, or maybe just to me because I HAVE a simple mind.. lol

My family was mormon... so I understand this teaching.

But this isn't what the bible actually teaches.

Biblically, you are not an unborn spirit in heaven, and then one day you enter the body of a little baby and get a body.


This isn't what the bible teaches, and it's found nowhere in scripture.
It's just a bit of mythology which the mormon church picked up... like lots of the things they believe.

 

[stonesoffire]

Do you see us as a triune being blue? Spirit, soul, body?

Our soul can be in a process of creating simply because of culture we are born into.

 

[Grace777x70]

My family was mormon... so I understand this teaching.

But this isn't what the bible actually teaches.

Biblically, you are not an unborn spirit in heaven, and then one day you enter the body of a little baby and get a body.


This isn't what the bible teaches, and it's found nowhere in scripture.
It's just a bit of mythology which the mormon church picked up... like lots of the things they believe.

That's interesting. What scripture do you have to support this? It seems to me that there are a lot of things scripture doesn't come right out and say.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Max, I did not say that is what the bible teaches. I only said that it's what the MORMONS believe.

My family was mormon... so I understand this teaching.

But this isn't what the bible actually teaches.

Biblically, you are not an unborn spirit in heaven, and then one day you enter the body of a little baby and get a body.


This isn't what the bible teaches, and it's found nowhere in scripture.
It's just a bit of mythology which the mormon church picked up... like lots of the things they believe.

 

[maxwel]

1. That's what I'm trying to find out. LOL. Whether God formed me before the sperm and egg did the horizontal tango. The scripture that Dcon gave, indicates that God DOES know us before He forms us in the womb. Some here argue that God only "knew" those who He called as prophets. Well who's to say He hasn't called US as prophets?

2. I think ALL creation is created by God, WHERE EVER He may choose to create it.

KNOW

To "know" us does not mean we are spirits in heaven before we are born.

God is omniscient, meaning he knows all things... everything that IS happening, and everything that WILL happen.

We can dig out verses on this, but basically, when God says he "knows" us before birth, it just means we exist in his mind... he knows who we are, and what we are, before we are born... in his mind.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Hmmm.. Well, my understanding is that GOD is triune. But yes, I believe we have spirit, soul, and obviously a body..lol

Do you see us as a triune being blue? Spirit, soul, body?

Our soul can be in a process of creating simply because of culture we are born into.

 

[stonesoffire]

I guess soul needs a definition.

 

[stonesoffire]

This came to mind...

~Ecc 3:19　 For what happens to people also happens to animals—a single event happens to them: just as someone dies, so does the other. In fact, they all breathe the same way, so that a human being has no superiority over an animal. All of this is pointless.　
Ecc 3:20　 All of them go to one place: all of them originate from dust, and all of them return to dust.　
Ecc 3:21　 Who knows whether the spirit of human beings ascends, and whether the spirit of animals descends to the earth?　
Ecc 3:22　 I concluded that it is worthwhile for people to find joy in their accomplishments, because that is their inheritance, since who can see what will exist after them?　

Maybe we should ask a Rabbi?

 

[maxwel]

Max, I did not say that is what the bible teaches. I only said that it's what the MORMONS believe.

Sorry Blue, I didn't mean that to sound accusatory.

I was just making a statement.