Regulative Principle of Worship

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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,530
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#2
did Christ illuminate what was proper to do on the sabbath day according to a regulative principle of torah?
 
S

Spokenpassage

Guest
#3
The equity of that fourth commandment is sufficient. Christ taught nothing new (to add to the law), but brought old truth to light in an age where the meaning and purpose of the law was darkened.
 
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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,530
13,094
113
#4
The equity of that fourth commandment is sufficient. Christ taught nothing new (to add to the law), but brought old truth to light in an age where the meaning and purpose of the law was darkened.

but does what He teaches about the sabbath appear to come from applying a regulative principle to what is written in the law?
do you get healing, people taking up their beds and walking, or His disciples harvesting grain, or pulling your neighbors ox out of a pit from the regulative principle?


 
S

Spokenpassage

Guest
#5
Of course!
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,530
13,094
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#6
Now while the sons of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering wood on the sabbath day. Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and to all the congregation; and they put him in custody because it had not been declared what should be done to him.
(Numbers 15:32-34)

does this have bearing on what we are asking?

after this, Israel was commanded to wear blue tassels.
a woman Christ called "
daughter" was healed by touching His tassel.
is this also significant here?

 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,530
13,094
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#7
are you sure?

apply the regulative principle to this:

You shall work six days,
but on the seventh day you shall rest;
even during plowing time
and harvest you shall rest.

(Exodus 34:21)

do you get the disciples harvesting grain on the sabbath from this, strictly from an interpretation that allows nothing which is not
expressly permitted to be allowable?
 
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Spokenpassage

Guest
#8
Posthuman, I don't know what you are getting at, would you please explain so.
 
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Spokenpassage

Guest
#9
Acts of mercy and necessity were lawful, and Christ himself said that the man was not made for the Sabbath, but that the Sabbath was meant to bless man. If it overrode acts of mercy and necessity, it was automatically broken and the Sabbath-keeping becomes useless.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,530
13,094
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#10

And David was dancing before the LORD with all his might,
and David was wearing a linen ephod.

(2 Samuel 6:14)

was David acting according to the regulative principle?

does the law command dancing?

[HR][/HR][HR][/HR]
what do the blue tassels mean?
how were people healed by touching Christ's?
what does it mean that His tassels brought healing?

a man was doing what he should not have been doing on the sabbath - the decalogue had not said what to do about that. the people had to go to their intercessor to inquire of the Lord about it.
then, the Lord commanded that they must wear blue tassels.

why?
what does it mean that they did not know what to do about someone breaking the law?
what does it mean that Moses had to continue to make judgements after the law was given?
what does it mean that the law continued to be given after the stone tablets were given?

was that the regulative principle in action?

that all the law hangs on two commands - to love God with everything, and to love others as yourself - is this the regulative principle?
is it the same regulative principle as what all men call '
the regulative principle?'

from only what was written, how were the disciples justified in harvesting wheat on the sabbath?
why did the pharisees think they were not?
why did Christ's tassels heal, but other tassels did not?
what do the tassels mean?
Christ criticized the pharisees for enlarging their tassels ((Matthew 23:5)).
why? why did they do that?


 
S

Spokenpassage

Guest
#11
You sure are quick to be divisive, please read my previous comment on acts of mercy and necessity. You haven't actually answered the question of the OP.
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
64
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#12
Who in the world did a thread on worship turn into a thread on the sabbath, Jesus is Lord of the sabbath. Matthew 11:28 "Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

​Jesus is our sabbath rest.

 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
332
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#13
We are supposed to assemble before God on the Sabbath to receive instruction from God !
Worship we can any time anywhere !
In any case - attending His lessons are an act of worship in itself as we show belief and respect for Him !
The lessons we learn on the Sabbath are to be 'practiced during the other 6 days...we don't switch off between sabbaths...that is the whole point of being a disciple and learner and shows our love and dedication to God as an act of worship.
There is much talk of 'walking in His steps - we need to examine ourselves if we really are with Him 24/7 or just spouting words.
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
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#14
I went to visit a church last Sunday and was bombed out. The songs were not worship or praise, here are some of the words from one of the sons. in the mud, I was in the mud, springing up to the river, springing to the river and on and on, very repetitive, which is not worship or praise. How about giving glory to God or Jesus, how He loved us and died for us. About glorious attributes, His amazing grace, His promise to return for us, the greatness of the New Heaven and New Earth and New Earth, the New Jerusalem. How He indwells us with His Holy Spirit, blesses us with new birth. Not mud and a river, please.
 

JohnTalmid

Senior Member
Mar 17, 2017
516
44
28
#15
We are supposed to assemble before God on the Sabbath to receive instruction from God !
Worship we can any time anywhere !
In any case - attending His lessons are an act of worship in itself as we show belief and respect for Him !
The lessons we learn on the Sabbath are to be 'practiced during the other 6 days...we don't switch off between sabbaths...that is the whole point of being a disciple and learner and shows our love and dedication to God as an act of worship.
There is much talk of 'walking in His steps - we need to examine ourselves if we really are with Him 24/7 or just spouting words.
What Scripture do you use to say what day Sabbath is friend?
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
64
48
#16
Leviticus 23:3 "Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings."

Exodus 20:22- And so it was, on the sixth day, that they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for each one. And all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses. 23 Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.’” 24 So they laid it up till morning, as Moses commanded; and it did not stink, nor were there any worms in it. 25 Then Moses said, “Eat that today, for today is a Sabbath to the Lord; today you will not find it in the field. 26 Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none.”

Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.:

Exodus 16:22-26 “And so it was, on the sixth day, that they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for each one. And all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses. 23 Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.’” 24 So they laid it up till morning, as Moses commanded; and it did not stink, nor were there any worms in it. 25 Then Moses said, “Eat that today, for today is a Sabbath to the Lord; today you will not find it in the field. 26 Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none.”

Exodus 20:8-11 ““Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.”


Exodus 31:12-17 "And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 13 “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. 14 You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16 Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’"

If you work on the Sabbath you are breaking it, so if you drive, cook, walk, your children need to keep it or you broke it and verse 17 of chapter 31 of Exodus, it's between Israel and the Lord. Do you gather all your food and cook it for the next day? I'm so glad Jesus is my Sabbath day rest, because He's the Lord of the Sabbath.
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
332
83
#17
What Scripture do you use to say what day Sabbath is friend?
You have to ask ? Oh I know all the excuses people come up with in order to negate the sabbath !
All we have to do is walk with Jesus or follow Jesus and He will show us !. Was it not HIS custom to go to church/synagogue on the sabbath ? and all HIS handpicked disciples too ? Did He and they not know which day was the sabbath ? And did God not show OT Israel which day to keep holy Ex 16 ?
If you don't know you have never interacted with God or Jesus - is obvious, because no one who walks with Him 24/7 could miss it.
 
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sevenseas

Guest
#18
A Report by the Theology Committee of the Association of Reformed Baptist Churches of America (Formally Approved by the General Assembly March 8, 2001)

The worship service of the typical charismatic church is long on music, loud, rhythm-driven music that is designed to stir the emotions, but short on the exposition of Scripture which should be the foundation of true religious emotions (from the article)

VS

15Be very careful, then, how you live—not as unwise but as wise, 16making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil.

17Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is.

18Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit,

19speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord,

20always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. (from Ephesians, the Bible)


so are you knocking the spiritual emphasis on worship ? God IS spirit. He is not regulatory and He is not a word on a page.

Be careful.

The word kills but the Spirit gives life. They belong together. If you separate them, you may end up with Ichabod written over the doorframe of your church.

Trying to dissemanate the Holy Spirit is actually trying to CONTROL people rather than allowing the gifts of the Spirit of God to operate.

Now is there confusion and over emphasis and abuse of these gifts? Yes there is. But some of us like the middle ground of understanding and worship with wisdom and our heart filled with God's love.

I don't like picking the bones of dry so called worship out of my teeth and I also don't like the whoop de doodle attitude of anything goes.

We have the pendulum swing in both directions and neither is good.

I'm not reformed anything. I am simply BEING formed by the Spirit of God who gives life and makes the Bible real.

As long as people do not submit to God and allow Him to actually lead by His Spirit, you will never get any of it right.

And by submit, I mean BOTH sides. God is also a God of order and as Paul writes, let ALL things be done decently and in order so everyone should pay attention to that and not take sides.

Take God's side. It's the only side and get some understanding.
 
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sevenseas

Guest
#19
You sure are quick to be divisive, please read my previous comment on acts of mercy and necessity. You haven't actually answered the question of the OP.


I have the impression that it is actually just you who is being slow to answer the questions being asked

but that may just be me

if asking questions is divisive, I am sure God would have tapped me on the shoulder about that years ago

He seems to welcome them
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
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#20
I can't be bothered to read more that a few paragraphs - but it seems to be "theological" legalistic gobbledygook.