Daniel 7

[Chokmahiel]

Well this chapter is where I left off in my reading of Daniel. I have read it before, many times in fact, and this chapter and the whole second half of Daniel (the parts about Daniel's visions) really stands out to me and I always enjoy such parts in the Bible because it makes me see things in my mind and also it is a challenge of wisdom. Daniel was one of the wisest men in history and even this dream troubled him.

So I thought I would share it here, and for the sake of wisdom see what you all think of this chapter and we can discuss anything about it here. If we have a fruitful discussion and exhaust ourselves on this chapter then perhaps we can examine the rest of the visions of Daniel together. If it turns out this topic is too troublesome or just not interesting enough then I suppose it will just die and I will seal it away in my heart.

Daniel 7

1 In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Hitherto is the end of the matter. As for me Daniel, my cogitations much troubled me, and my countenance changed in me: but I kept the matter in my heart.

 

[Chokmahiel]

Well anyone can post anything they want about this chapter, but just to stimulate a little thinking here is something I find interesting in it. Now for the most part the very typical stuff that gets talked about of this dream of Daniel is in the four beasts, particularly the fourth beast, and their implications. However I think something pretty interesting in here that is often overlooked is actually a pretty clear prophecy about Jesus which is echoed in the New Testament.

Daniel 7:13-14

[SUP]13 [/SUP]I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

 

[JesusRules1]

We all study different things in the Bible,where there might be something that you know very well,that I do not,and I might know something very well,that you do not,and that is why the saints together get a better understanding of the Bible,and I like the attitude of both Daniel and Joseph,when they interpreted the dream of the kings,that they said,they have no more wisdom than any other person,but it is God that reveals secrets.

Dan 7:1 In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters.
Dan 7:2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
Dan 7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

Daniel had a dream of 4 beasts,or kingdoms,that would rise up one after the other,and would be diverse,or different,than each other,which are the 4 ways of people.Human religion,physical cruelty,human wisdom,pushing for dominion.Although each kingdom displayed the 4 ways of people,one of those modes of operation was their chief mode of operation,giving an unequal ruling of all 4 ways in their kingdom.

Dan 7:4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.

The first kingdom,lion,Babylon-represents human religion.It had eagle's wings for the high revelation of God that Babylon received during the reign of king Nebuchadnezzar,when he proclaimed throughout his kingdom to honor the God of Israel,for he is the God of gods,for although Babylon believed in different gods,king Nebuchadnezzar placed the God of Israel above all of them.Babylon was actually the most preferred kingdom out of all of the Gentiles,but the more you know,and back away,the harder you fall.The eagle's wings were plucked because when king Nebuchadnezzar died,his son took the throne,and knew what his father believed,and proclaimed throughout the kingdom,to acknowledge the God of Israel,but he ignored that,and took the vessels out of the temple of God,and drank out of them praising false gods,so God stripped the kingdom from them,and gave it to the next kingdom.It was made to stand upon the feet as a man,and a man's heart was given to it,for from then on Babylon would be known as the kingdom of man,without the revelation of God.

Dan 7:5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.

The second kingdom,bear,Medo-Persia(Iran)-represents physical cruelty.It raised itself up on one side,which could mean the Persian dominion was the greatest in that union later in the kingdom,and had 3 ribs in the mouth of it,which could be 3 nations they conquered,Lydia,Babylon,Egypt.

Dan 7:6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

The third kingdom,leopard,Greece-represents human wisdom.It had four wings of a foul,which could mean they flew above the nations,in advanced medicine,science,philosophy,etc.,but not flew as high as Babylon with they had eagle's wings.They had four heads,which means when Alexander the Great died,his kingdom was split in to four sections,and a general ruled each section.

Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

The fourth kingdom,iron,Roman Empire-represents pushing for physical dominion.It was diverse from the other kingdoms,for it was the most determined to gain dominion,and control.It had ten horns,which is the world split in to ten sections,with a leader in each section.

Dan 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

The little horn comes from the ten horns,who come from the fourth beast,so the little horn is from the Roman Empire,who is the man of sin,the beast,the antichrist,which the prince to come in the future,will be of the people who overthrew Jerusalem,the Roman Empire.His agenda is that there is no personal god to help mankind,and he will not honor the God of his fathers,and not regard any god,but will honor the God of forces,the power of nature,and will exalt himself above all that is called God,or worshipped(Daniel 11,2 Thessalonians 2).

The man of sin,the little horn,works in the world for three and one half years,before he claims to be God by harnessing the power of nature,and will be the time the ten horn kingdom rules,which they rule for a short space,three and one half years,but they fail at obtaining peace for the world,and the man of sin will still get power during that time before he claims to be God,and will provoke a war,which I believe it will be between Islam and the world,for Islam will say it is an insult to Allah,for the unified religious system is based on the principles of the new age movement,and spiritual evolution,and all are valid for spiritual evolution,and will be a hate crime to try to convert someone to your religion,and the religious system will have an interpretation of Christianity,Islam,and Judaism,to fit the format of the religious system,and will provoke the religion of Islam to eventually fight the world,in which nuclear weapons will fly taking down 3 horns of the 10 horn kingdom,in which they are devastated,and crippled,although the governments are still in operation,for the ten horns eventually hand their power over to the beast,which that war will be so terrible that the governments collapse,for the ten horn kingdom failed at obtaining peace,and they turn to the man of sin for the answer and solution(Revelation 9:13-21),which he will be a man understanding dark sentences,and will speak like no other person,and his power shall be mighty,but not by his own power,but he is influenced by the devil more than any other person on history.

Dan 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

The collapse of all 4 kingdoms,and Jesus judging the world,and the punishment of the little horn,for deceiving the world.

Dan 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

The first three kingdoms will never have physical dominion again,but their ways are still on earth,and the Roman Empire does not have their dominion taken away until God puts them down,and they all show up in the beast kingdom.

The beast kingdom is ten horns,the physical dominion of the kingdom,with the ways of the lion,Babylon,human religion,of the bear,Medo-Persia,physical cruelty,of the leopard,Greece,human wisdom.The kingdom of man in its entirety,without any unbalance of any ways above another,but all 4 chief modes of operation of the 4 kingdoms all in the beast kingdom,where when they ruled years ago,they had a chief mode of operation,and the rest were inferior in operation,but in the beast kingdom there is no unbalance in the modes of operation,but all 4 chief modes of operation are in the beast kingdom,for the beast kingdom regards no God,has no input from God,unlike in the past where they believed in gods or god,and it is people only going by their religion,being physically cruel to take away all people that do not adhere to the beast kingdom,going by their own wisdom,and physical dominion that entails the whole world.

Dan 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
Dan 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

But Jesus will eventually put them down,and the saints shall possess the kingdom.

Dan 7:15 I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me.
Dan 7:16 I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things.
Dan 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.
Dan 7:18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
Dan 7:19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;
Dan 7:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.
Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
Dan 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

The fourth beast,the Roman Empire,does not lose their dominion until God puts them down,and the ten horns that come from them is the world split in to ten sections with a leader and each section,and they devour the whole earth,control of the whole earth of the Gentiles,and will be terrible in establishing power,and control,and physical dominion,unlike any other kingdom before,but while the Roman Empire has the dominion,it is all nations in league with each other in the beast kingdom.

Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

The great tribulation,three and one half years,which the saints are given in to the little horn's hands for three and one half years,in which the beast makes war against the saints,and prevails against them,and shall destroy the mighty and holy people,and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people,then the resurrection shall happen

Dan 7:26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
Dan 7:28 Hitherto is the end of the matter. As for me Daniel, my cogitations much troubled me, and my countenance changed in me: but I kept the matter in my heart.

But the saints shall possess the kingdom,and shall rule over the heathen who is left that God went against,for 1000 years,the millennial reign of Christ.

 

[Chokmahiel]

@JesusRules1 Interesting post.

Well I know by some popular conspiracy theories that the fourth beast is typically ascribed to Rome, or more accurately one of the roman kings since each of the beasts is a king, but I wonder if that is actually true. The prophecy says the 4th beast is diverse from the other beasts, a beast unlike the others. Ancient Rome and all their customs and culture is very tied into ancient Greece. So if one assumes the leopard is Alexander the Great, which I think could be correct, I don't see how any of the kings of Rome would then be a beast diverse from the others. All the kings of Rome pretty much continued in the spirit of Alexander. As for Islam, well the Sunnis are almost exactly like the spirit of Nebuchadnezzar and the Shia are very much like the spirit of Cyrus. So then I don't see how Islam is really diverse from the first two beasts either.

I wonder sometimes if the fourth beast has even yet been unleashed. Or sometimes considering on his sharp iron teeth and nails of brass which stamp all the earth if it is modernity. Modernity indeed has teeth of steel and is stamping all of the earth under its feet and all the ways of modernity from the Enlightenment era to now seek to change all times and laws and concepts most ancient. Then again a lot of the features of modernity aren't really that new either, almost all of them are very old heresies and beliefs repacked. Perhaps modernity could just be the three beasts without their dominions but with prolonged lifespans.

I suppose we would have to figure out which king is the fourth beast and sets that kingdom, and then figure out which are the ten kings inside that kingdom, and then look for the three kings that will be subdued by the king that is the little horn. In which case I don't think this beast has arrived yet.