WINNERS & LOSERS

[Dino246]

Uumm, no it's not.

Like anything else on here, full investigation into something will reveal that only enough research is done to get their desired result..... not the truth.

... You might say, "but Stephen, they aren't telling lies, they're just telling it as they see it".

I assure you that after telling them several times & they don't change their views, there's something majorly wrong.
Titus 3:10
New International Version
Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them....
New American Standard Bible
Reject a factious man after a first and second warning,

That means don't believe anything they say as well.

Stephen, this verse sounds so "right". The problem is that unless it is applied correctly, quoting it is just throwing condemnation. In a debate, either side can quote it, claiming thereby that they have the truth and that the other side is factious. That doesn't help anything.

When we are talking about generally-agreed core doctrines, then it's fine to use this verse. OSAS (and whatever its antithesis is called) is not a core doctrine. Think about what is actually debated on this site: except for discussions with a non-believer, is anyone really debating the virgin birth? The resurrection of Christ? His divine nature? No, not often. We debate the non-essentials. We don't (often) debate the essentials, because we realize that standing against them puts us outside orthodox Christianity.

We don't have Paul, Jesus, or James in our midst to clarify the truth on the non-essentials. It's worthwhile studying them, but coming to an incorrect conclusion on a non-essential issue is not going to endanger one's salvation, especially if it is the result of prayerful, diligent study. How we handle that understanding, and treat others with whom we differ, is a far better indicator of the state of our souls.

 

[sevenseas]

Actually, that is EXACTLY what the command to "repent" means. We should be open to changing our thinking about what we might be wrong in.... but NOT open to declaring to everyone that WE are now right, and everyone else, wrong.

yup

I agree

are you open then?

easter bunnies for all

 

[sevenseas]

did anybody win yet?

the wreath is wilting

 

[Grace777x70]

yup

I agree

are you open then?

easter bunnies for all

Cool....Thanks....I have to warn you - I go for the ears first!...

 

[sevenseas]

Cool....Thanks....I have to warn you - I go for the ears first!...

got it

that way they can't hear you coming

(old joke I know)

 

[Grace777x70]

got it

that way they can't hear you coming

(old joke I know)

Lol.. I thought I had to "get there" first before I could eat their ears.

Maybe what is more accurate is that I am an "equal opportunity" eater. I'll eat whatever is there and without remorse.

 

[Magenta]

You'd think by now they would accept the truth & state it properly, but nooo, they have to continue to tell the lie.

You might say, "but Stephen, they aren't telling lies, they're just telling it as they see it".

I assure you that after telling them several times & they don't change their views, there's something majorly wrong.

Does this apply to you also? Or only to other people?

 

[Blain]

Stephen you seem to believe that you understand the truth but is it really the truth or your truth? You cannot be so arrogant as to say" You'd think by now they would accept the truth & state it properly, but nooo, they have to continue to tell the lie.

You might say, "but Stephen, they aren't telling lies, they're just telling it as they see it".

I assure you that after telling them several times & they don't change their views, there's something majorly wrong.

Do you really believe this? can you honestly say this? why does everyone have to fit into your understanding? the truth is never fully understood because it is so vast and deep that even if we studied under Jesus himself for a thousand years we would only have begun to understand it. and we as humans with our limited understanding arrogantly going around the forums claiming our views and our understanding to be the correct one and looking down on those who disagree need to learn to humble ourselves.

This is the issue that we see so often in cc, it's one thing to have a view that is truth to you but to be so arrogant as to think everyone has to fit our views and accept what we think is truth being human and flawed in understanding is simply wrong

 

[samuel23]

Blain: The statement of EG was made in reference to James saying, brethren if any of you do err from the truth and one convert him(bring him back) let him know that he which converts the sinner(one who missed the truth)shall save a soul from DEATH. EG said that this place in scripture did not pertain to those who discuss the return of Christ, when EG made that statement he ADDED TO SCRIPTURE, because James did not say, all error except the error about Christ return.

 

[samuel23]

It is very much like what is being taught in the world(the church often follows the world) all of us are winners, truth is what each of us perceive it to be...read this, "it is one thing to have a view that IS TRUTH TO YOU but to be so arrogant as to think everyone else has to fit our views." So it is arrogant to accept truth and declare and believe that others should also accept that truth?? According to this idea, God is one arrogant fellow because He declares a truth and expects every single one of us to accept it or suffer the consequences...since God is like that should not we do the same thing? I started this post because the attitude today is that as long as we believe Jesus is our Savior then we do not have to necessarily walk in the truth of God...that is a total lie and not born out by the bible, we are constantly being told to stay in the truth or suffer the consequences.

 

[Base12]

We see through a glass darkly... not Black and White.

Romans 3:4
"God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged"

No One has it 100% correct, and no One ever will.

Grace should be sufficient.

 

[pottersclay]

My gosh Samuel do you lose sleep over us pre tribbers? How sweet thank you.

Now I want to draw your attention to the new testament gospels. Now that's where the first 12 got to walk, talk, touch, etc Jesus personal.
For a little more than 3 yrs. That's how long it took to get it right...o...wait ...my bad. Peter got rebuked by Jesus he sank in the water too. He even denied him. Gosh he had great potential too.
Thomas ...doing so good till he doubted...o my what a mistake.
Then there's Mary...going to finish the task of the burial...surprise....Jesus is not dead.
John the Baptist...Now he knew his cousin was messiah, or did he? Why did he ask if he was?
Matthew now I guess he had no chance. Come on a Jewish tax collector for Rome?
Falling asleep in the garden musta subtracted some brownie points for a few guys.

Do you see where I'm going here? You have different view points as do I but can we agree on who and what Christ done for us? If there's a test at the pearly gates I missed or something. Please let me know so I can study.

Thanks.....potter

 

[Magenta]

I started this post because the attitude today is that as long as we believe Jesus is our Savior then we do not have to necessarily walk in the truth of God...that is a total lie and not born out by the bible, we are constantly being told to stay in the truth or suffer the consequences.

The Truth of God is Jesus, and Jesus Christ is our Savior

 

[Blain]

It is very much like what is being taught in the world(the church often follows the world) all of us are winners, truth is what each of us perceive it to be...read this, "it is one thing to have a view that IS TRUTH TO YOU but to be so arrogant as to think everyone else has to fit our views." So it is arrogant to accept truth and declare and believe that others should also accept that truth?? According to this idea, God is one arrogant fellow because He declares a truth and expects every single one of us to accept it or suffer the consequences...since God is like that should not we do the same thing? I started this post because the attitude today is that as long as we believe Jesus is our Savior then we do not have to necessarily walk in the truth of God...that is a total lie and not born out by the bible, we are constantly being told to stay in the truth or suffer the consequences.

You shouldn't compare God to us in that manner, yes it is arrogance you demand that others believe what you see as truth because unlike God we are not all knowing our understanding is flawed and thus what we perceive to be truth can be wrong. For instance say I hated black people and that they are evil because their skin is black and say this was the utter truth to me and that anyone who said otherwise were fools and were going to hell, but even though this is the truth to me it's not is it?

It would be completely arrogant of me to have a specific kind of believe that i see as the truth and expect others to fit into what i believe as if it was completely fact.

 

[Magenta]

​

 

[samuel23]

Blain your reasoning has one rather serious flaw, you are assuming that a person who proclaims something as true is not telling the truth, they just imagine they are. Scriptural truth can be known by taking an honest approach to scripture and using context, folks who reject an obvious literal in context scripture are not poor misguided people who cannot help themselves, they are people who do not like what they found in scripture and their flesh nature rises up and they seek to change it by manipulation. They have little fear of God or retribution, they know what they are doing they just believe they can get away with it. I am trying to warn folks that they are not getting away with anything and are in danger of judgment from God. Most scriptural truths are really quite easy to find in scripture, the trouble happens when the truth is not something the person likes.

 

[Angela53510]

We are not saved by having correct theology! We are saved by the grace of God, believing in Christ, his death and resurrection, repenting of our sins (meaning, stopping sin!) and following Jesus.

For one thing, this whole nonsense of eschatology, a series of guesses about things that are NOT laid out clearly in the Bible is ridiculous! Because they were not meant to be! Find me pre-trib or post-trib in the Bible - you can't, because they are not there. Nor post-millennial, pre-miliennial, amillennial, or any of the other terms people like to throw around.

Same for salvation. So I'm going to hell, because I believe in eternal security? Well, who made you judge, jury and executioner? I know Jesus, he is my Lord and Saviour. I'll let him judge my theology. On any topic.

God is going to judge people, but it won't be based on their end time views, whether women should be pastors, or whether we are eternally saved or not! What does Jesus say about who will be cast out?

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separatethe people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me,you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” Matt 25:31-46
So, Samuel, are you a sheep or a goat? Are you obeying Jesus, or worrying about things which are inconsequential, like how right you are, and how right your interpretations of the Bible compared to other people? Because there is no where Jesus says,

"Come to me, all who are right in doctrine, and I will give you rest. Set your theology before me, and I will judge whether your theology is correct enough to warrant heaven. For your burden will always be heavy, even though I have told you, my yoke is light!"

We do need to obey Jesus and be righteous, but even more, we have to have love for the brethren, and share the gospel with the lost, and care for the poor and needy. Jesus will not be judging us on whether we had perfect theology, on Judgment Day, so will you be ready, and leave behind these arguments and self righteousness?

 

[mailmandan]

Repent means "to change the mind". It is formed by 2 words "meta" and noeo "mind" which means to change the mind.

3210. [FONT=&quot]μετανοέω[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]metanoeō[/FONT] verb

To repent, change one’s mind, be converted.

The verb [FONT=&quot]metanoeō[/FONT] is from [FONT=&quot]meta[/FONT] (3196), “change” (in compound words), and [FONT=&quot]noeō[/FONT] (3401), “to exercise the mind.” In classical Greek it first meant “to perceive afterwards,” as in the opposite of [FONT=&quot]pronoeō[/FONT] (4165), “to consider in advance” (Liddell-Scott). Eventually it came to mean “change one’s mind or purpose,” and this usage was carried into the Septuagint.

Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary, The - The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary – Lambda-Omicron.

Some commentaries and our religious teachings may "add" our own perceptions to this and what this means but the Greek meaning is without a doubt - " to change the mind".

Amen! The Greek word for "repent" is "metanoia" (noun) and "matanoeo" (verb) you see as defined in the Strongs #3340, 3341: to think differently or afterwards, reconsider. After thought, change of mind. Repentance basically means a "change of mind" and the context must determine what is involved in this change of mind.

 

[mailmandan]

There are "fruits of repentance" which come after we have already repented and believed the gospel message of Christ's finished work on the cross.

These fruits are not the repentance itself but a product of His life manifesting in and through us because we have repented to now believe on His work for us.

And Yes - this includes how we think about sinning including malice, deceit and the slandering of others in the body of Christ as well as living the homosexual lifestyle. These are all doing the same things and are works of the flesh - just being manifested in a different way.

He bears His fruit in and through us - the branches. He is the Vine - we are the branches - without Him we can do nothing.

This is why Jesus said "Repent and believe in the gospel". Change the way you are thinking and believe in My way of salvation and life and not rely on your own religious good works. Jesus was speaking to the law-keeping, good moral living Jews at the time.

Amen! The Bible also tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions. Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." This is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8), not the essence of repentance (change of mind). I have heard certain people say, "If you want to be saved, repent of your sins, turn from your sins." If turning from your sins means to stop sinning, then people can only be saved if they stop sinning. If that were the case, then nobody would be saved since nobody has completely stopped sinning (1 John 1:8).

 

[Grace777x70]

Amen! The Bible also tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions. Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." This is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8), not the essence of repentance (change of mind). I have heard certain people say, "If you want to be saved, repent of your sins, turn from your sins." If turning from your sins means to stop sinning, then people can only be saved if they stop sinning. If that were the case, then nobody would be saved since nobody has completely stopped sinning (1 John 1:8).

I agree. Stopping sinning as in our behavior is not the gospel message that brings salvation as in receiving Christ. ( other then the sin of unbelief in Christ's work on the cross which when we repent of - we are stopping this sin so technically we do stop sinning at it's root belief... ).

However the true gospel message does and will if we are fed the proper nutrients which is Christ Himself - will result in changed behavior as the life of Christ is manifested in our lives.

He will bear the fruit of His life in and through us and this will show up in love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, kindness, faith, gentleness and self-control. ( Even self-control is not a work of the flesh or human will-power - it is a fruit of His life in us. )

These fruit are manifested in and through us as we are transformed by the Holy Spirit as we behold the glory/goodness of the Lord as in a mirror. 2 Cor. 3. 17-18

Our minds are renewed to truth in this transformation and we do participate in this with the Holy Spirit - "For it is God who is at work in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure."

Sinning in it's various forms will fall off us like dead leaves on a tree. The fruit of His life in us will be evident in some form.