Folks in this forum as in other forums go at it over different issues, for example does Jesus gather the church before the tribulation or after the tribulation. There are others, women Pastors, two baptisms, gifts of the Spirit, once saved always saved, and others. Most of these issues are either or, either one side is true or the other side, as in the gathering of the church, Jesus either gathers the church before the tribulation or after the tribulation. Which brings me to my point, of winners and losers, if six people are claiming pre-trib gathering, and six other people are claiming a post-trib gathering...then six people have to be losers, folks who have missed God in that area and are believing Satan. If you are believing a false teaching that does not come from God then it stands to reason that it had to come from Satan. I just want folks to be aware that when ten people are taking different sides on an issue, whether it is five vs five, or two vs eight, or whatever, that one side has rejected the truth of God and has believed the lie of Satan. This is very serious, the fall of the human race came about because a person believed the lie of Satan rather then the truth of God.
WINNERS & LOSERS
- Thread starter samuel23
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While you may have a point about the lies of Satan, I would hesitate to label any of the beliefs which you noted as being such. Yes, some people will be proven incorrect on some issues. I suspect that all of us will be incorrect on something.
God loves His children, whether they have their biblical doctrines all perfect or not. Let's not be attributing differing beliefs to Satan too quickly, lest we have to answer to the Lord for our own error. For the measure we use, with such it shall be measured to us.
God loves His children, whether they have their biblical doctrines all perfect or not. Let's not be attributing differing beliefs to Satan too quickly, lest we have to answer to the Lord for our own error. For the measure we use, with such it shall be measured to us.
You make a very seriously flawed assumption.......... that ANY of the presumptive interpretations HAS to be right, while others are, therefore, wrong.. And even worse, you often give just two, assuming that the choice has to be between THOSE two.
Your whole argument seems to be as skewed as the disagreements you evaluate.
Your whole argument seems to be as skewed as the disagreements you evaluate.
.
Men search for God, but it is God, who reveals Himself.
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Souls who lived before Jesus looked in the Word, for the evidence of His coming.
But there were things that weren't revealed to anyone until after His death and resurrection. Rom 16:25-26, 1 Cor 2:7-8.
Shall we say that the men of old were false teachers, because they searched, tried to understand, but it was not revealed yet?
Isn't up to God to reveal Himself to souls?
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If we preach the gospel, can we make someone believe?
Or is it the work of the Holy Spirit to lift the veil in their mind and heart?
We can only preach and water, it is God who gives the increase 1 Cor 3:6-7.
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So it is with the understanding of God's Word.
We search, we read and study, and He shows us, gives us understanding, if we seek Him.
Truth in prophecy revelation to the mind, is from God.
But we should not judge someone's love for God, exclusively by what God has revealed to him in the prophetic field.
And we cannot judge God's love for that person, in that way either,
Our relationship with God is much more than just the understanding of prophecy alone.
--
We are different, and yet, we are together.
We are together, searching,
Together learning,
Together believing,
Together hoping,
Together waiting.
It won't be long now,
Till that day when we are together, in heaven, Praise Jesus!
Men search for God, but it is God, who reveals Himself.
--
Souls who lived before Jesus looked in the Word, for the evidence of His coming.
But there were things that weren't revealed to anyone until after His death and resurrection. Rom 16:25-26, 1 Cor 2:7-8.
Shall we say that the men of old were false teachers, because they searched, tried to understand, but it was not revealed yet?
Isn't up to God to reveal Himself to souls?
--
If we preach the gospel, can we make someone believe?
Or is it the work of the Holy Spirit to lift the veil in their mind and heart?
We can only preach and water, it is God who gives the increase 1 Cor 3:6-7.
--
So it is with the understanding of God's Word.
We search, we read and study, and He shows us, gives us understanding, if we seek Him.
Truth in prophecy revelation to the mind, is from God.
But we should not judge someone's love for God, exclusively by what God has revealed to him in the prophetic field.
And we cannot judge God's love for that person, in that way either,
Our relationship with God is much more than just the understanding of prophecy alone.
--
We are different, and yet, we are together.
We are together, searching,
Together learning,
Together believing,
Together hoping,
Together waiting.
It won't be long now,
Till that day when we are together, in heaven, Praise Jesus!
This would be true if we were talking about the deity of Christ, the Triune nature of God, justification by faith alone or salvation by grace alone, the physical return of Christ for the regeneration of creation, but we're talk a secondary issue of eschatology. It's a secondary doctrine, it's not satan's lie, Jesus said no one knows the time, only the Father, the only problem that I see can happen is someone placing a date on His return, like John Hagee did, why is it that a preacher will start teaching only on eschatology and then will set a date, it always seems to happen. We need to teach the word of God, I prefer verse by verse, chapter by chapter and book by book, the whole council of God, not cherry picked verses taken out of context to make the preachers point, not God's. Preaching is the proclamation of the Gospel, once you're saved we don't need the Gospel proclaimed to us, we need to be taught the word so we can grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
I Corinthians 13:8-12 "Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways.12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known."
Prophecy is in part, we know in part, because we look into a mirror dimly, but when the perfect (Jesus) comes then we will know fully. Pauls not talking about the nature of God, justification, salvation, grace or faith, these thing we can know fully when we are born again, because the Spirit leads in all truth.
John 16:13-14 "When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you."
Things to come, is that eschatology, maybe, but the disciples seemed to know about the end of the age. So pre-trib, post-trib, mid-trib, pre-millinial, post-millinial or a-millinial if it doesn't effect your doctrine on grace, faith, justification by grace, salvation by faith, the Deity of Christ, His atonement, God's Triune nature, Deity of the Spirit, infallible Scripture in the original manuscripts. Is there more I don't know did I go to far, I don't know.
I Corinthians 13:8-12 "Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways.12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known."
Prophecy is in part, we know in part, because we look into a mirror dimly, but when the perfect (Jesus) comes then we will know fully. Pauls not talking about the nature of God, justification, salvation, grace or faith, these thing we can know fully when we are born again, because the Spirit leads in all truth.
John 16:13-14 "When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you."
Things to come, is that eschatology, maybe, but the disciples seemed to know about the end of the age. So pre-trib, post-trib, mid-trib, pre-millinial, post-millinial or a-millinial if it doesn't effect your doctrine on grace, faith, justification by grace, salvation by faith, the Deity of Christ, His atonement, God's Triune nature, Deity of the Spirit, infallible Scripture in the original manuscripts. Is there more I don't know did I go to far, I don't know.
Hi b1973: I thought the solution was obvious from reading my post? We need to really get serious about what side of an issue we are on, and that is done by discipline in pursuing the truth of God. Many folks in these forums show no fear at all in changing and manipulating the scriptures even though the bible itself says that people who do such things are doing it to their own destruction(2Peter 3:16).
Johnnyb: Jesus said that he who is unjust in that which is least will be unjust in that which is great. The NT does not teach that it is ever acceptable in any form to reject the word of God and believe a lie from Satan. Think please, any alternative to the truth that God has given us has to be a lie from Satan because there are only two sides, God and Satan.