Doomsday Crock

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jan 21, 2017
647
28
0
#21
There is no end of the world, only an end of the age, and that was the Mosaic Age.





I think there will be an end of the world, certainly this madness cant continue forever?

2 peter 3:10
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
#22
Josephus account:

War 5:6:3: Thus were the miserable people persuaded by these deceivers, and such as belied God himself; while they did not attend nor give credit to the signs that were so evident, and did so plainly foretell their future desolation, but, like men infatuated, without either eyes to see or minds to consider, did not regard the denunciations that God made to them. Thus there was a star resembling a sword, which stood over the city, and a comet, that continued a whole year. Thus also before the Jews' rebellion, and before those commotions which preceded the war, when the people were come in great crowds to the feast of unleavened bread, on the eighth day of the month Xanthicus, [Nisan,] and at the ninth hour of the night, so great a light shone round the altar and the holy house, that it appeared to be bright day time; which lasted for half an hour. This light seemed to be a good sign to the unskillful, but was so interpreted by the sacred scribes, as to portend those events that followed immediately upon it. At the same festival also, a heifer, as she was led by the high priest to be sacrificed, brought forth a lamb in the midst of the temple. Moreover, the eastern gate of the inner [court of the] temple, which was of brass, and vastly heavy, and had been with difficulty shut by twenty men, and rested upon a basis armed with iron, and had bolts fastened very deep into the firm floor, which was there made of one entire stone, was seen to be opened of its own accord about the sixth hour of the night. Now those that kept watch in the temple came hereupon running to the captain of the temple, and told him of it; who then came up thither, and not without great difficulty was able to shut the gate again. This also appeared to the vulgar to be a very happy prodigy, as if God did thereby open them the gate of happiness. But the men of learning understood it, that the security of their holy house was dissolved of its own accord, and that the gate was opened for the advantage of their enemies. So these publicly declared that the signal foreshowed the desolation that was coming upon them. Besides these, a few days after that feast, on the one and twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,] a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared: I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities. Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner [court of the temple,] as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence." But, what is still more terrible, there was one Jesus, the son of Ananus, a plebeian and a husbandman, who, four years before the war began, and at a time when the city was in very great peace and prosperity, came to that feast whereon it is our custom for every one to make tabernacles to God in the temple, began on a sudden to cry aloud, "A voice from the east, a voice from the west, a voice from the four winds, a voice against Jerusalem and the holy house, a voice against the bridegrooms and the brides, and a voice against this whole people!" This was his cry, as he went about by day and by night, in all the lanes of the city. However, certain of the most eminent among the populace had great indignation at this dire cry of his, and took up the man, and gave him a great number of severe stripes; yet did not he either say any thing for himself, or any thing peculiar to those that chastised him, but still went on with the same words which he cried before. Hereupon our rulers, supposing, as the case proved to be, that this was a sort of divine fury in the man, brought him to the Roman procurator, where he was whipped till his bones were laid bare; yet he did not make any supplication for himself, nor shed any tears, but turning his voice to the most lamentable tone possible, at every stroke of the whip his answer was, "Woe, woe to Jerusalem!" And when Albinus (for he was then our procurator) asked him, Who he was? and whence he came? and why he uttered such words? he made no manner of reply to what he said, but still did not leave off his melancholy ditty, till Albinus took him to be a madman, and dismissed him. Now, during all the time that passed before the war began, this man did not go near any of the citizens, nor was seen by them while he said so; but he every day uttered these lamentable words, as if it were his premeditated vow, "Woe, woe to Jerusalem!" Nor did he give ill words to any of those that beat him every day, nor good words to those that gave him food; but this was his reply to all men, and indeed no other than a melancholy presage of what was to come. This cry of his was the loudest at the festivals; and he continued this ditty for seven years and five months, without growing hoarse, or being tired therewith, until the very time that he saw his presage in earnest fulfilled in our siege, when it ceased; for as he was going round upon the wall, he cried out with his utmost force, "Woe, woe to the city again, and to the people, and to the holy house!" And just as he added at the last, "Woe, woe to myself also!" there came a stone out of one of the engines, and smote him, and killed him immediately; and as he was uttering the very same presages he gave up the ghost.
 
Last edited:

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
111
63
#23
Which comes first, the resurrection then the "burning?

Or the "burning" and then the resurrection?
.

I'm going with resurrection first of the saved, then the burning.

--

Again, can you find any scriptures that show that there is a resurrection for you and me?

You probably CAN'T, that's why you avoid answering the Question.

One of many that you won't/can't answer.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
#24
.

I'm going with resurrection first of the saved, then the burning.

--

Again, can you find any scriptures that show that there is a resurrection for you and me?

You probably CAN'T, that's why you avoid answering the Question.

One of many that you won't/can't answer.
AB babee

Not an issue of won't/can't answer, rather how to address this "end of the world/burning" issue.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Do we agree that the above is the resurrection according to Jesus:

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

And that this is the very same resurrection that Paul spoke of below?

Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
111
63
#25
AB babee

Not an issue of won't/can't answer, rather how to address this "end of the world/burning" issue.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Do we agree that the above is the resurrection according to Jesus:

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

And that this is the very same resurrection that Paul spoke of below?

Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
.

I agree that they are speaking of the same resurrection.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
#26
.

I agree that they are speaking of the same resurrection.
So, after this resurrection supposedly the "burning" takes place aka the end of the world.

2 Tim 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

Paul is obviously saying that the resurrection that he preached had not "past already".

If Paul preached a destruction or "burning" of the earth after the resurrection how could any claim that the resurrection had "past already"?

It must be that case that Pail never preached a destruction or "burning" of the earth.
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
4,635
1,040
113
76
#27
.

Ha ha, I'm not too worried about it!

But I think that it won't be the same.
Same here. One thing that will be the same though is Human nature
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
111
63
#28
So, after this resurrection supposedly the "burning" takes place aka the end of the world.
I prefer "end of the planet".

The end of the age in Matt 24, is the end of the temple age which ended in 70 ad.

The end of the planet is something different.

2 Tim 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
Some say that they were teaching that baptism was the resurrection, others say that it was Jesus as the only resur.,

Others say that they were sadducees, who taught that there was no resur.

Paul is obviously saying that the resurrection that he preached had not "past already".
Yes

If Paul preached a destruction or "burning" of the earth after the resurrection
Yes

how could any claim that the resurrection had "past already"?
Paul says that they were wrong, that the resur. had not taken place at the time of his writing.

It must be that case that Pail never preached a destruction or "burning" of the earth.
Peter did, 2 Pet 3:10, "...the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
#29
Paul never spoke of an "end of the world", or a "burning"of the world - if it was such a "momentous" event how come he was silent on it?

Did Paul preach a different gospel to Peter?
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
111
63
#30
Paul never spoke of an "end of the world", or a "burning"of the world - if it was such a "momentous" event how come he was silent on it?

Did Paul preach a different gospel to Peter?
.
1 Cor 15:24, "Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God."

Paul believed in an end, where the kingdom is delivered up to the Father.

------

I'm still waiting for an answer to my question,

Show me one scripture that says that there is a resurrection for you and me.

I believe that you CANNOT answer it.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
#31
.
1 Cor 15:24, "Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God."

Paul believed in an end, where the kingdom is delivered up to the Father.

------

I'm still waiting for an answer to my question,

Show me one scripture that says that there is a resurrection for you and me.

I believe that you CANNOT answer it.
Not so fast AB...


Yes Paul believed in an "end" but not an "end of the world" - he knew is was at the end of the age/s as he states:


But no end of the "world" as the KJV incorrectly translates:

1 Co 10:11 (Young's) And all these things as types did happen to those persons, and they were written for our admonition, to whom the end of the ages did come,

1 Co 10:11 (KJV) Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Using Corinthians does not help your "argument".

Paul only stated that Hymenaeus and company were wrong about the timing of the resurrection and events surrounding it.

If Paul taught an "end of the world" after the resurrection then ol' Hymenaeus would have been laughed at because all his hearers needed to say is "well the earth is still here, the stars are still shining, so yer full of it".
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
111
63
#32
Not so fast AB...


Yes Paul believed in an "end" but not an "end of the world" - he knew is was at the end of the age/s as he states:


But no end of the "world" as the KJV incorrectly translates:

1 Co 10:11 (Young's) And all these things as types did happen to those persons, and they were written for our admonition, to whom the end of the ages did come,

1 Co 10:11 (KJV) Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Using Corinthians does not help your "argument".

Paul only stated that Hymenaeus and company were wrong about the timing of the resurrection and events surrounding it.

If Paul taught an "end of the world" after the resurrection then ol' Hymenaeus would have been laughed at because all his hearers needed to say is "well the earth is still here, the stars are still shining, so yer full of it".
Show me one scripture that says that there is a resurrection for you and me.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
#33
Show me one scripture that says that there is a resurrection for you and me.
You keep trying this to avoid the fact that Paul never taught an end of the world - bit like a smoke screen...:p

You've already agreed that the supposed end of the world is after the resurrection, you've effectively boxed yourself in, which is why I framed the question that way.

I wasn't born again yesterday...
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
#34
Sometimes the world refers to unsaved people. Does the world hate and lust?

1 John 2:17
And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

John 15:18

“If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you.
 
Last edited:

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
111
63
#35
You keep trying this to avoid the fact that Paul never taught an end of the world - bit like a smoke screen...:p

You've already agreed that the supposed end of the world is after the resurrection, you've effectively boxed yourself in, which is why I framed the question that way.

I wasn't born again yesterday...

Show me one scripture that says that there is a resurrection for you and me.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
#36
This is what you wrote:

I'm going with resurrection first of the saved, then the burning.
You tried this line of "argument" in your thread - didn't work there either.

Also:

I agree that they are speaking of the same resurrection.
 
Last edited:

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
111
63
#37
This is what you wrote:



You tried this line of "argument" in your thread - didn't work there either.

Show me one scripture that says that there is a resurrection for you and me.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
#38
You've already said:

I agree that they are speaking of the same resurrection.

and

I'm going with resurrection first of the saved, then the burning.

So are you now going back on this?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#39
What you have said above is not true Locutus. The end of the age will take place when the Lord returns to the earth after the tribulation period as demonstrated in the following scripture:

"He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man.The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

Therefore, how could the end of the age only refer to the Mosaic age, when Jesus was obviously speaking of a future time in referring to the end of the age.

The end of the age is depicted in Dan.2:31-45 when the statue, which represents human government, is smashed by the Rock (Jesus) and blown away without leaving a trace (end of human government). Then the Rock that falls on the feet of the statue fills the entire earth, which is representing Christ's millennial kingdom.
the metal man image was fulfilled at the first advent.
Jesus (and His church) is the stone that smashed the image's toes.
the image was a single figure representing all the captivities and conquerings Israel would live through,
rome was the iron...the toes were romans and jews (those against Christ).
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
111
63
#40
You've already said:

I agree that they are speaking of the same resurrection.

and

I'm going with resurrection first of the saved, then the burning.

So are you now going back on this?
No
--
Show me one scripture that shows that there is a resurrection for you and me.