Doomsday Crock

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Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
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#61
You said that OUR resurrection was the one described in Rev 20:8-12, yet to come.



Rev 20:8-12, 70 ad or not?
I never said "our" resurrection - I said do you agree that the resurrection of Rev 20:12 was the same resurrection that Jesus and Paul spoke of.

I then proceeded to explain if Paul was speaking of an "end of the earth/world" after the resurrection how could anybody take Hymeneaus' claim seriously that the resurrection had passed if it involved the "end of the earth/world"?

You couldn't answer, so you went on to obfuscate the issue with bringing in the "our/you and me" resurrection" misdirect.

This is precisely the manner of "argumentation" that you used in your "bridegroom cometh" thread and the reason I gave up the discussion there.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#62
Locutus, is there an end to this world?
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
#64
Locutus, is there an end to this world?
Not that I can see Zone, only a new heaven and earth which I don't see as literal.

Eph 3:21 (Youngs) to Him is the glory in the assembly in Christ Jesus, to all the generations of the age of the ages. Amen.

From what I've read (I think A.T. Robertson or some other NT scholar) stated that "age of the ages" in Greek is the nearest thing to describe "forever/eternity".

Which would mean endless generations.

Isa (Young's) 45:17 Israel hath been saved in Jehovah, A salvation age-during! Ye are not ashamed nor confounded Unto the ages of eternity!

Even after the new creation we see that Johns says there are still the unrighteous etc hanging around:

Rev 22:11 he who is unrighteous -- let him be unrighteous still, and he who is filthy -- let him be filthy still, and he who is righteous -- let him be declared righteous still, and he who is sanctified -- let him be sanctified still.

River of Life is flowing:

Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, bright as crystal, going forth out of the throne of God and of the Lamb:

How can anyone claim to have the holy spirit and yet deny the river has not been flowing since the 1st century - how many sources for the holy spirit are there?
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
111
63
#65
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Gen 8:22, "While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease."

"While the earth remaineth", points to a time when the earth will not remain, and these things will cease.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
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#66
No it does not, you are reading into the text rather than let it speak, and you are ripping it out of it's context:

(Gen 8:20 KJV) And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

Gen 8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

Gen 8:22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.

Mr. Oneline exegesis...:p
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
111
63
#67
No it does not, you are reading into the text rather than let it speak, and you are ripping it out of it's context:

(Gen 8:20 KJV) And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

Gen 8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

Gen 8:22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.

Mr. Oneline exegesis...:p
2 Pet 3:7, "But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgement and perdition of ungodly men."

2 Pet 3:12, "Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

V 13, "Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for a new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness."

-

But we don't see the new heavens and earth until after death is destroyed and the kingdom is delivered up to the Father Rev 21:1-2, 20:14-15.

That means this planet material world is gone 2 Cor 4:18, 1 Jn 2:16-17.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
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#68
There is a true doomsday clock....and it is based upon God's timing.....and the allotted time

And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished
, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
111
63
#69
There is a true doomsday clock....and it is based upon God's timing.....and the allotted time

And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished
, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
When the 2 witnesses are killed, and Jerusalem Falls,

The 7th trumpet will blow,

And "The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ;..". Rev 11:15.

Dan 2:34-35, Filled the earth, became the new earth, Rev 21:1-2.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
#70
Let's take a look at this new heaven and earth:

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

So what we have here is a dark universe with a dry planet, no sun and moon....:p

And you guys dressed up in yer brides gear..




No wonder people look at evangelicals askance...
 
Nov 19, 2016
502
23
0
#71
This earth will not last forever,and this heaven will not last forever,for they have been tainted with sin,and must pass away.

All sin must be purged with fire,so the earth,and the heaven,will pass away.The saints receive the Holy Spirit,and with fire,for their sins are purged with fire by God's Spirit.

The New Jerusalem is a place where sin has never been,and sin will never be,and rebellion will never rear its ugly head again.

After the millennial reign of Christ,then the old earth,and old heaven,will pass away,and there will be a new earth,and a new heaven,the New Jerusalem,the final destination of the saints forever.

Isa 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
Isa 11:3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
Isa 11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Isa 11:5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
Isa 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isa 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isa 11:8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

Zec 14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
Zec 14:7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
Zec 14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

It is obvious that the millennial reign of Christ is on earth,and those that say it is a spiritual reign of Christ for 1000 years,does not make sense,for Jesus has been ruling ever since He ascended to heaven,which is more than a 1000 years,and also it does not fit the description of a reign on earth,where there are no wars,and animals are plant eaters,and do not fight each other,and will be so tame that a child can lead a crocodile at that time,for when did this ever happen on earth.

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

The earth,and heaven,has to be purged with fire,for they are tainted with sin,but some might say it is a renovation,but it is not.

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

The earth,and the heaven,shall pass away,and be no more,for they are tainted with sin,so they have to be purged with fire,and dissolve,and the new earth,and heaven,the New Jerusalem,wherein dwells righteousness,will be a place where sin has never been,and sin will never be,and the old earth,and heaven,shall not be remembered,and it will not come to mind,for when the saints,and angels,are in the New Jerusalem,they will remember nothing prior to the New Jerusalem,but they will feel as if they have always been at the New Jerusalem,and nowhere else,and they will not remember the earth,and heaven,not remember anything associated with the earth,for it is associated with sin and rebellion,and they do not have to be sad for the lost ones.

That is why Jesus said the former things are passed away,and all things become new,for it is a fresh start,clean,wholesome,and good,and nothing of the past will be remembered by the saints,or angels,for it is associated with sin and rebellion,and the saints will not remember anyone they knew on earth,not remember their pets,not remember their jobs,they will remember nothing,and it will not ever come to their mind anything associated with the earth,they will know nothing of the past prior to the New Jerusalem.

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

A new earth,and a new heaven,and the old earth,and the old heaven,shall be dissolved,and be no more,and when the saints are in the New Jerusalem,the old earth,and old heaven,shall not be remembered,nor come to mind.
 

Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
2,824
207
63
#72
Not that I can see Zone, only a new heaven and earth which I don't see as literal.

Eph 3:21 (Youngs) to Him is the glory in the assembly in Christ Jesus, to all the generations of the age of the ages. Amen.

From what I've read (I think A.T. Robertson or some other NT scholar) stated that "age of the ages" in Greek is the nearest thing to describe "forever/eternity".

Which would mean endless generations.

Isa (Young's) 45:17 Israel hath been saved in Jehovah, A salvation age-during! Ye are not ashamed nor confounded Unto the ages of eternity!

Even after the new creation we see that Johns says there are still the unrighteous etc hanging around:

Rev 22:11 he who is unrighteous -- let him be unrighteous still, and he who is filthy -- let him be filthy still, and he who is righteous -- let him be declared righteous still, and he who is sanctified -- let him be sanctified still.

River of Life is flowing:

Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, bright as crystal, going forth out of the throne of God and of the Lamb:

How can anyone claim to have the holy spirit and yet deny the river has not been flowing since the 1st century - how many sources for the holy spirit are there?
2 Peter 3:10-13
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.

Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!

But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
111
63
#73
Let's take a look at this new heaven and earth:

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

So what we have here is a dark universe with a dry planet, no sun and moon....:p

And you guys dressed up in yer brides gear..




No wonder people look at evangelicals askance...

Locutus,

You've got to stop posting pictures of yourself, but, you are kind of cute. Maybe a little more make-up would help.....NOT !

------

I'm surprised that you look at Rev 21:1-2, in such a literal context.

You understand the symbolism in Matt 24, Lk, etc., very well it seems, as we agree about many passages.

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No more sea, Rev 21:1

As far as I can tell, there 4 seas in the Bible.


Literal seas, Galilee etc.

The sea at the creation, Gen 1:2

Sea of the gentiles, Rev 17:15

The sea between John and God, Rev 4:6, Rev 15:2


All of these are gone, otherwise there would be a "sea".


The most important sea is the one between God and man,

It is gone and we can be with Jesus forever.....Yes?