IS RELIGION A BAD WORD?
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R
I can pretty well count on someone making the claim that "religion" is a bad word in my presence every few months.
Is it "religion" that is a bad word, or is it the meaning that particular individual pours into the word?
Personally I believe many Christians think it's "spiritual" and "cool" to correct others for using the word, accusing the person of a meaning that the speaker never intended for the word. And, they've heard sermons when "religion" is juxtaposed with "relationship", and are reacting to the labels a particular author or speaker has given to these terms.
And, these conversations where "religion" is demeaned are within the context of Christianity, so we are not talking about pagan religion.
"Religion", in their mind, I think, is associated with mindless rituals, or man's futile attempt to seek God himself, as opposed to God's gracious invitation to the person.
But, if one keeps in mind that it is God who seeks man, and not vice versa, and that mindless rituals cannot placate God, and that Christianity is a relationship and not a set of rules, is there anything wrong with the word "religion"?
In some of my reading today, the word "religion" has to do with a constant and diligent observance of all pertaining to the worship of God. Doesn't the Bible itself tell us that we should be careful to do certain things?
The word also involves the "fear of God" which means a feeling of reverential regard for God, tempered with awe, and the fear of disobedience or (occasionally) the punishment for disobedience (and I am talking about corrective punishment, not loss of salvation).
Anyways, is it really the word "religion" that is bad, or is it some flawed understanding or meaning that some of these people have? Do they just want to sound spiritual by talking down to someone who uses the word "religion" in their presence? I think that's a big part of the motivation personally. And, I think too many Christian speakers have used the word in a perjorative sense for some reason, to connote observance of mindless rituals or lists of rules without a relationship component.
To be honest, the individuals I've heard demean the word rarely define it enough for me to know what their understanding of the word "religion" implies. I doubt they could give me a coherent answer anyways..they're more concerned with sounding spiritual to their listeners
Is it "religion" that is a bad word, or is it the meaning that particular individual pours into the word?
Personally I believe many Christians think it's "spiritual" and "cool" to correct others for using the word, accusing the person of a meaning that the speaker never intended for the word. And, they've heard sermons when "religion" is juxtaposed with "relationship", and are reacting to the labels a particular author or speaker has given to these terms.
And, these conversations where "religion" is demeaned are within the context of Christianity, so we are not talking about pagan religion.
"Religion", in their mind, I think, is associated with mindless rituals, or man's futile attempt to seek God himself, as opposed to God's gracious invitation to the person.
But, if one keeps in mind that it is God who seeks man, and not vice versa, and that mindless rituals cannot placate God, and that Christianity is a relationship and not a set of rules, is there anything wrong with the word "religion"?
In some of my reading today, the word "religion" has to do with a constant and diligent observance of all pertaining to the worship of God. Doesn't the Bible itself tell us that we should be careful to do certain things?
The word also involves the "fear of God" which means a feeling of reverential regard for God, tempered with awe, and the fear of disobedience or (occasionally) the punishment for disobedience (and I am talking about corrective punishment, not loss of salvation).
Anyways, is it really the word "religion" that is bad, or is it some flawed understanding or meaning that some of these people have? Do they just want to sound spiritual by talking down to someone who uses the word "religion" in their presence? I think that's a big part of the motivation personally. And, I think too many Christian speakers have used the word in a perjorative sense for some reason, to connote observance of mindless rituals or lists of rules without a relationship component.
To be honest, the individuals I've heard demean the word rarely define it enough for me to know what their understanding of the word "religion" implies. I doubt they could give me a coherent answer anyways..they're more concerned with sounding spiritual to their listeners
When I was in seminary, we had to take World Religions. It had to do with apologetics, and being ready to give a sound word. It also had to do with not offending people from other religions, by not knowing what their religion actually believed.
The course also tied evangelism heavily into an understanding of these world religions. Our prof was amazing, and he had been a missionary on the field for many years, although he was home on sabbatical. He would trap us, engage us, and trick us.
Meaning, we make a lot of assumptions about other religions and use them, when not only are they not wrong, they are insulting to those people. In other words, try and know their beliefs before you put down their religion and try and convert them to Christianity.
For instance, most Buddhists don't believe in God, except some "extreme" sects. So knowing about that religion, means not making the error of asking a Buddhist what they believe about God. Because they don't! So how do you witness to a Buddhist? Two schools of thought:
1. Only use the Bible, don't talk about their religion at all.
2. Understand where they are coming from, find parallels in their religion to compare to Jesus.
Both take a long time, and both have successes and failures. Myself, I think I would use a combination of both.
Same with Jews! I remember speaking with a Jewish woman on-line many years ago, quoting from the Old Testament (using her bible, I told her) and that proving that Jesus was the long awaited Messiah. Except a lot of Jews are NOT waiting for the Messiah. A lot of Jews are quite content they way they are. Or, they only believe the Torah and the Talmud.
It is popular or pop theology that has come out with this ridiculous concept that - Religion - bad, relationship - good!
Because, like it or not, Christianity is a religion. It is the largest or second largest religion in the world (Depends on whether you are reading Muslim stats or Christian stats!). I know not every one of those people is born again, but they are walking in the light that God gave them.
My grandmother was Eastern Orthodox. But she used to go to the Pentecostal churches on Sunday evenings with her lady friends. She learned that "you gotta believe in da Jesus." She had a really good grasp of the Bible, having taught herself to read in two languages from the bible. A have strong memories of her telling me about Jesus, over and over, and that I needed him. She had picture books she had bought illustrating the Bible and she would always bring them out and explain to me what the stories were about.
But for births, deaths, weddings, and her regular services, she was going through the comfortable and familiar rites and rituals of her church. Did that exclude her from being saved, despite a very strong and abiding belief in Jesus as Lord and Saviour? I think not!
There is nothing wrong with religion, if it is in context of the truth of who Jesus is, what he came to do, and following him. We are saved by grace, and that does not exclude necessarily having to change churches, or completely alter our whole relationship with our community, in the context of who God is.
I really do get sick of people harping on a dichotomy which is not there. Religion really means a belief in a divine power. Now, if you are following the wrong religion, of course, you are following the wrong divine power. And that means, not following Jesus, or compromising what he said. It does not mean putting down people who serve God a bit differently that we are used to.
Sometimes I think the rites and rituals are more with evangelicals, who believe that only the way they follow Jesus is the right way! They get so caught up in their own righteousness, forgetting that they are sinners too! And putting down people for their "religious" take on things does not make them Pharisees. It makes them people that God loves anyway, even if we don't agree with their style of worship, or their external trappings in the name of religion.
Because really, religion is all about Jesus, isn't it?
The course also tied evangelism heavily into an understanding of these world religions. Our prof was amazing, and he had been a missionary on the field for many years, although he was home on sabbatical. He would trap us, engage us, and trick us.
Meaning, we make a lot of assumptions about other religions and use them, when not only are they not wrong, they are insulting to those people. In other words, try and know their beliefs before you put down their religion and try and convert them to Christianity.
For instance, most Buddhists don't believe in God, except some "extreme" sects. So knowing about that religion, means not making the error of asking a Buddhist what they believe about God. Because they don't! So how do you witness to a Buddhist? Two schools of thought:
1. Only use the Bible, don't talk about their religion at all.
2. Understand where they are coming from, find parallels in their religion to compare to Jesus.
Both take a long time, and both have successes and failures. Myself, I think I would use a combination of both.
Same with Jews! I remember speaking with a Jewish woman on-line many years ago, quoting from the Old Testament (using her bible, I told her) and that proving that Jesus was the long awaited Messiah. Except a lot of Jews are NOT waiting for the Messiah. A lot of Jews are quite content they way they are. Or, they only believe the Torah and the Talmud.
It is popular or pop theology that has come out with this ridiculous concept that - Religion - bad, relationship - good!
Because, like it or not, Christianity is a religion. It is the largest or second largest religion in the world (Depends on whether you are reading Muslim stats or Christian stats!). I know not every one of those people is born again, but they are walking in the light that God gave them.
My grandmother was Eastern Orthodox. But she used to go to the Pentecostal churches on Sunday evenings with her lady friends. She learned that "you gotta believe in da Jesus." She had a really good grasp of the Bible, having taught herself to read in two languages from the bible. A have strong memories of her telling me about Jesus, over and over, and that I needed him. She had picture books she had bought illustrating the Bible and she would always bring them out and explain to me what the stories were about.
But for births, deaths, weddings, and her regular services, she was going through the comfortable and familiar rites and rituals of her church. Did that exclude her from being saved, despite a very strong and abiding belief in Jesus as Lord and Saviour? I think not!
There is nothing wrong with religion, if it is in context of the truth of who Jesus is, what he came to do, and following him. We are saved by grace, and that does not exclude necessarily having to change churches, or completely alter our whole relationship with our community, in the context of who God is.
I really do get sick of people harping on a dichotomy which is not there. Religion really means a belief in a divine power. Now, if you are following the wrong religion, of course, you are following the wrong divine power. And that means, not following Jesus, or compromising what he said. It does not mean putting down people who serve God a bit differently that we are used to.
Sometimes I think the rites and rituals are more with evangelicals, who believe that only the way they follow Jesus is the right way! They get so caught up in their own righteousness, forgetting that they are sinners too! And putting down people for their "religious" take on things does not make them Pharisees. It makes them people that God loves anyway, even if we don't agree with their style of worship, or their external trappings in the name of religion.
Because really, religion is all about Jesus, isn't it?
S
and what do you think religions are if not faiths?
too many knee jerk reactions in this thread and not enough facts
you don't think killing infidels and blowing yourself up does not take faith?
Christianity, God, demands faith. even that is a gift from Him
stop picking on words, study up, and make sense
faith is believing. as someone once said, I have faith that when I flick the light switch, the light will come one
faith is not a magic word and religion is not a dirty word
I have seen Christian atrocities committed by those who proclaim faith and yet act full of hatred to those who object to their overbearing and manipulative behavior
I can pretty well count on someone making the claim that "religion" is a bad word in my presence every few months.
Is it "religion" that is a bad word, or is it the meaning that particular individual pours into the word?
Personally I believe many Christians think it's "spiritual" and "cool" to correct others for using the word, accusing the person of a meaning that the speaker never intended for the word. And, they've heard sermons when "religion" is juxtaposed with "relationship", and are reacting to the labels a particular author or speaker has given to these terms.
And, these conversations where "religion" is demeaned are within the context of Christianity, so we are not talking about pagan religion.
"Religion", in their mind, I think, is associated with mindless rituals, or man's futile attempt to seek God himself, as opposed to God's gracious invitation to the person.
But, if one keeps in mind that it is God who seeks man, and not vice versa, and that mindless rituals cannot placate God, and that Christianity is a relationship and not a set of rules, is there anything wrong with the word "religion"?
In some of my reading today, the word "religion" has to do with a constant and diligent observance of all pertaining to the worship of God. Doesn't the Bible itself tell us that we should be careful to do certain things?
The word also involves the "fear of God" which means a feeling of reverential regard for God, tempered with awe, and the fear of disobedience or (occasionally) the punishment for disobedience (and I am talking about corrective punishment, not loss of salvation).
Anyways, is it really the word "religion" that is bad, or is it some flawed understanding or meaning that some of these people have? Do they just want to sound spiritual by talking down to someone who uses the word "religion" in their presence? I think that's a big part of the motivation personally. And, I think too many Christian speakers have used the word in a perjorative sense for some reason, to connote observance of mindless rituals or lists of rules without a relationship component.
To be honest, the individuals I've heard demean the word rarely define it enough for me to know what their understanding of the word "religion" implies. I doubt they could give me a coherent answer anyways..they're more concerned with sounding spiritual to their listeners
Is it "religion" that is a bad word, or is it the meaning that particular individual pours into the word?
Personally I believe many Christians think it's "spiritual" and "cool" to correct others for using the word, accusing the person of a meaning that the speaker never intended for the word. And, they've heard sermons when "religion" is juxtaposed with "relationship", and are reacting to the labels a particular author or speaker has given to these terms.
And, these conversations where "religion" is demeaned are within the context of Christianity, so we are not talking about pagan religion.
"Religion", in their mind, I think, is associated with mindless rituals, or man's futile attempt to seek God himself, as opposed to God's gracious invitation to the person.
But, if one keeps in mind that it is God who seeks man, and not vice versa, and that mindless rituals cannot placate God, and that Christianity is a relationship and not a set of rules, is there anything wrong with the word "religion"?
In some of my reading today, the word "religion" has to do with a constant and diligent observance of all pertaining to the worship of God. Doesn't the Bible itself tell us that we should be careful to do certain things?
The word also involves the "fear of God" which means a feeling of reverential regard for God, tempered with awe, and the fear of disobedience or (occasionally) the punishment for disobedience (and I am talking about corrective punishment, not loss of salvation).
Anyways, is it really the word "religion" that is bad, or is it some flawed understanding or meaning that some of these people have? Do they just want to sound spiritual by talking down to someone who uses the word "religion" in their presence? I think that's a big part of the motivation personally. And, I think too many Christian speakers have used the word in a perjorative sense for some reason, to connote observance of mindless rituals or lists of rules without a relationship component.
To be honest, the individuals I've heard demean the word rarely define it enough for me to know what their understanding of the word "religion" implies. I doubt they could give me a coherent answer anyways..they're more concerned with sounding spiritual to their listeners
See, please, what the Holy Scripture says:
- "And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (1John 3.5-9).
- "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." (1John 5.18).
- "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Romans 8.3,4).
- "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would." (Galatians 5.16,17).
Religion for most people starts with "Dear Lord God"
Everything associated with God or deity, creation, origins, purpose, direction is linked
to the word religion.
So if any of you pray or believe God can read your thoughts, know your heart, is wanting
to talk with you and you with Him you are religious.
If this was true we would not have the bible, churches, preachers, evangelists, prophets
etc.
It shows how wrong and emotional people have become about the dilemma of searching for
and finding our creator and having a one to one with Him.
This is what God feels about His commands being disobeyed
“I hate, I despise your religious festivals;your assemblies are a stench to me.
Even though you bring me burnt offerings and grain offerings, I will not accept them.
Though you bring choice fellowship offerings, I will have no regard for them.
Away with the noise of your songs! I will not listen to the music of your harps.
But let justice roll on like a river, righteousness like a never-failing stream!
Amos 5:21-24
Gods tension has always been justice and righteousness matter more than anything,
and the rest flows. Get this the wrong way round, and all is lost.
Everything associated with God or deity, creation, origins, purpose, direction is linked
to the word religion.
So if any of you pray or believe God can read your thoughts, know your heart, is wanting
to talk with you and you with Him you are religious.
God hates religion.
etc.
It shows how wrong and emotional people have become about the dilemma of searching for
and finding our creator and having a one to one with Him.
This is what God feels about His commands being disobeyed
“I hate, I despise your religious festivals;your assemblies are a stench to me.
Even though you bring me burnt offerings and grain offerings, I will not accept them.
Though you bring choice fellowship offerings, I will have no regard for them.
Away with the noise of your songs! I will not listen to the music of your harps.
But let justice roll on like a river, righteousness like a never-failing stream!
Amos 5:21-24
Gods tension has always been justice and righteousness matter more than anything,
and the rest flows. Get this the wrong way round, and all is lost.
Jesus never found a religion, neither ordained that was built temples.
So much so that at no time in the Holy Scripture is said that who believes in Jesus had a religion. It's true that, at Antioch, they was called "christians" (Acts 11.26). However, who gave this title to them? And why?
They was known just as belonging to the Way.
So much so that at no time in the Holy Scripture is said that who believes in Jesus had a religion. It's true that, at Antioch, they was called "christians" (Acts 11.26). However, who gave this title to them? And why?
They was known just as belonging to the Way.
- "But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus." (Act 19.9).
- "And the same time there arose no small stir about that way." (Acts 19.23).
- "But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:" (Acts 24.14).
God desires those who worship Him in Spirit and in Truth Religious rituals and
observances dutifully performed are useless if a person's heart is far from God.
Religious rituals andobservances dutifully performed are useless if a person's heart is far from God.
Jesus doesn’t want that we just obey void laws, much less that we worship Him physically (John 4.23,24).
Rather, what He desire is that we live willingly the purpose that is contained in each of the laws 24 hours.
The notion that one can be in active disobedience to God and saved at the same time is a fallacy.
Salvation is not some abstract notion which cloaks disobedience to God. That kind of thinking is Satan's very first lie repackaged.
Salvation is inclusive of a regenerated heart in which one has died to sin and has been awakened to righteousness. To hold the idea that one can "sometimes" disobey God and be "saved" is evidence that one does not understand what salvation actually means.
Jesus taught...
Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
The word "committeth" is poieō in the Greek and it means "produce" or "bring forth."
For example...
Mat 3:8 Bring forth [poieō] therefore fruits meet for repentance:
Mat 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth [mē poieō] good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
It can also be rendered "make," "cause," "do," "did" etc. All in the context of something "produced" or "brought forth."
Jesus called the Pharisees slaves because they produced sin in their lives. Jesus came to set people free from sin that one may serve righteousness.
To be "set free indeed from serving sin" is analogous of salvation, not only because it is what Jesus plainly taught in John 8:31-47, but the Scriptures also states...
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Paul taught the same thing in stating...
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Any individual whom is still yielding themselves to sin is very plainly and evidentially not saved. Such an individual has not been set free.
There are many people in such a state whom will argue otherwise because they wish for a "salvation" which is inclusive of being able to serve Satan. Yet the Bible is very clear...
Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth [poieō] sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Let no one deceive you...
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth [poieō] righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
He who abides in Jesus doesn't sin...
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
Of course the use of the term "sin" here is in the context of purposeful wrongdoing, not falling short in ignorance due to a lack of knowledge and wisdom. God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to the Gospel.
Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
God looks at the heart, the motive. Those whom are saved have pure motives for the heart has been purified by faith (Act 15:9) and faith works by love (Gal 5:6) and love works no ill (Rom 13:10).
Salvation is not some abstract notion which cloaks disobedience to God. That kind of thinking is Satan's very first lie repackaged.
Salvation is inclusive of a regenerated heart in which one has died to sin and has been awakened to righteousness. To hold the idea that one can "sometimes" disobey God and be "saved" is evidence that one does not understand what salvation actually means.
Jesus taught...
Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
The word "committeth" is poieō in the Greek and it means "produce" or "bring forth."
For example...
Mat 3:8 Bring forth [poieō] therefore fruits meet for repentance:
Mat 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth [mē poieō] good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
It can also be rendered "make," "cause," "do," "did" etc. All in the context of something "produced" or "brought forth."
Jesus called the Pharisees slaves because they produced sin in their lives. Jesus came to set people free from sin that one may serve righteousness.
To be "set free indeed from serving sin" is analogous of salvation, not only because it is what Jesus plainly taught in John 8:31-47, but the Scriptures also states...
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Paul taught the same thing in stating...
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Any individual whom is still yielding themselves to sin is very plainly and evidentially not saved. Such an individual has not been set free.
There are many people in such a state whom will argue otherwise because they wish for a "salvation" which is inclusive of being able to serve Satan. Yet the Bible is very clear...
Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth [poieō] sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Let no one deceive you...
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth [poieō] righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
He who abides in Jesus doesn't sin...
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
Of course the use of the term "sin" here is in the context of purposeful wrongdoing, not falling short in ignorance due to a lack of knowledge and wisdom. God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to the Gospel.
Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
God looks at the heart, the motive. Those whom are saved have pure motives for the heart has been purified by faith (Act 15:9) and faith works by love (Gal 5:6) and love works no ill (Rom 13:10).
A Christian receives a new nature that wants to please and obey God, but to claim sinlessness is a heresy.
I have debated these guys in the past..they are living in self deception and don't understand the holiness of God. That is the only way they can make the sinless claim.