Someone the other day publicly "rebuked" me for expressing my view on alleged miraculous sign gifts.
I'm glad he did..it gives me another opportunity to add some remarks to this thread.
First, I didn't begin the conversation in the chat room. It was already in progress. Second, someone else asked me to comment about it, if I'm not mistaken.
The person who criticized me is charismatic and apparently Word of Faith, and takes exception to expressions of opinions contrary to his beliefs. He shouldn't be in a chat room if he has that issue.
There are some topics that I express my views upon....hypercharismatic nonsense, Judaizer doctrines (claiming others are in sin for not observing elements of the Mosaic Covenant), and Reformed/Non-Reformed views. Those topics are all hot button topics for me.
Regarding the Judaizer propaganda, I was formerly a Judaizer. I know that many Judaizers hold a very poor view of church history that they've learned, either directly or indirectly, from Alexander Hislop and his contemporaries. In essence, many hold the view that non-Sabbath, festival, clean meat law observers are not much more than neo-pagans and have been influenced by Roman Catholicism, which they consider to be the "Great Whore" of Revelation 17. Many of them either think that Sabbath-breaking is the "mark of the Beast" or it will be the mark of the Beast in the end times. I grew up in such a cult and I abhor this teaching. It leads basically to cults like I was involved with. Many of them consider their collection of doctrines to be "the truth" and are very cultic in this regard. They may not come right out and say it, but this view underlies their thinking. And, I have no illusion that some of them are here to press this agenda. One individual bragged to me how many people he's led to the understanding of the Sabbath, and he is a prolific poster here.
However, my attitude now is basically to let the blind lead the blind. I get involved in these discussions when I have a bit of time, but in essence I cannot be responsible for individuals who are led astray by those with cultic mentalities.
Concerning Reformed theology, I've gotten involved with the conversations because some elements within the chat room claim that Reformed theology is Satanic, or heresy. Some individuals have even told other chatters that the chatroom management doesn't want it discussed because it is borderline or heresy. This actually isn't true; the chatroom management acknowledges predestination is biblical, so those individuals aren't representing the chatroom management in their remarks.
Concerning charismatic stuff, I grew up with a grandmother who was charismatic. Like many charismatic, they claim to be some great power of God, anointed by the Holy Spirit with a special anointing. My opinion of charismatic individuals in my life is this; many are well-meaning and have been led astray by false teaching that can be very harmful.
Let me give you an example. My aunt divorced her husband and married some other guy. She was over 40 at the time she did this. My grandma pronounced a curse upon her, muttering as if she was under the Spirit's inspiration. My aunt had a child with severe birth defects.
I am sure in her mind my grandma thinks she was speaking for God, but if it was spirit-inspired, I am sure it was not from God. However, this incident probably affected my aunt's guilt concerning her son's condition.
Additionally, these individuals cause Christians to have unmet expectations. Many of them teach that if they aren't healed, it's due to a lack of faith. So, there is guilt associated with their alleged lack of faith, as well as unmet expectations because God hasn't healed them.
Some claim that there is no place whatsoever for a theology of suffering; that God uses suffering for the sanctification of those who have placed their faith in Him. Bill Johnson declares those who believe in a theology of suffering to be teaching a false gospel, in fact.
This is pretty ironic. Bethel Church has been one of the biggest sources of looniness within alleged Christianity. If you don't know about Bethel, study up on them. Apparently they are dumping "gold dust" into the ventilator systems so that a "glory cloud" is manifested, which they claim is the presence of God. Additionally, feathers float down from the ceiling, which they claim are angel feathers. They are involved in a lot of the hyper-charismatic nonsense.
Hear this message concerning Bill Johnson and Bethel Church. It is done by Michael Boehm, who was himself involved in such a church:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS1BRM0x0WE&feature=youtu.be&t=590
As Michael mentions, one of the beliefs which accompanies such groups includes "revelation over Scripture". They believe that their experience trumps Scripture. Some chatters consider those who are focused on Scripture to be inferior spiritually development-wise to themselves.
Here's a new meme to emphasize a point I'd like to make...if you challenge some of the hyper-charismatic views in the chatroom, you are told that you cannot possibly understand that person's anointing because you are not spirit-filled. According to their phony theology, they believe that they are spirit-filled, with a "baptism of the Holy Spirit" in a different way than a normal believer...that they've experienced a second work of the Holy Spirit that us normal spiritual peons haven't experienced.
I challenge their views, because 1) many of them don't have good theology and 2) they have bad practice, such as women assuming a very dominant approach in teaching. The vast majority of Christian women realize that they aren't to be dominant over men, and being excessively aggressive as this is unbecoming of women. However, I notice that with hypercharismatic women, this trait is especially prominent.
Another example is someone who claims such things, who has directly lied to me on unrelated matters, in a blatant manner. Why would I believe a known liar about supernatural claims? He knows he lied, I know he lied, why would he expect me to believe him about supernatural claims when he tells lies about earthly matters?
This person claims I am trying to subvert a great work of the Holy Spirit here, by discounting such claims. Pretty funny that he thinks that. I hope God uses this site to reach people with the gospel message, and that those who are teaching seeking signs and wonders would be thwarted in their deception.
I'm pretty sure all kinds of people are turned away from Christianity simply because of the lunacy of hyper-charismatics. Many laugh at Christianity due to the lunacy they see from the Word of Faith/Health Wealth and Prosperity/hypercharismatic circles. And I don't blame them.
Additionally, hypercharismatic people in general lack credibility with me. A lot of them simply INSIST that I hold their views, and get very angry if I am not supportive of them. I didn't check my brains in at the door when I became a Christian. Why would I believe some internet person who makes claims about things I haven't seen personally in 32 years of being a Christian? I haven't seen a SINGLE demon cast out by an individual. I haven't seen a SINGLE person that I personally know in real life who is a sound thinking person claim to speak in tongues. I haven't seen a SINGLE person that I personally know in real life who is a sound thinking person claim to resurrect the dead. So, where does that leave me?
Before you claim this is a lack of faith, think about it. I totally believe that the Scriptural accounts are true concerning similar events. I have faith in what Scripture says; I have no faith in what men, who can be liars, say.
I am also open minded to considering that tongues as a prayer and praise language to God is a possibility, but the question would still remain as to whether this gift is still applicable, or if it is what tongues speakers today claim it is. I am, however, NOT open minded on lunacy like "fire tunnels", "laughing in the spirit", barking noises, herky jerky motions as a spiritual manifestation or being "slain in the spirit"..or "grave sucking" as practiced by some of Bill Johnson's crowd, including his wife.
Anyways, feel free to criticize me. It will give me more material to post about
