Who or what does the works

[know1]

Who created all things in existence?
Did Jesus Himself do it? The bible says He did.
Who healed everyone when Jesus walked the earth? Did Jesus Himself do it?
Both He and the bible said He did.
What about the healings, and deliverances, and casing out of filthy spirits that take place today? Who does all that? Is it the person praying and/or speaking, or is it God/Jesus doing the work?
If you said God is the one who did all that, you would be correct. If you said Jesus is the one who did all that, again you would be correct. If you said the Holy Spirit did all that, again, you would be correct.
Could the person who did the praying/speaking say that they healed/delivered/cast out a spirit of, so and so? Would it be correct to say such a thing?
Probably not the wisest of things to brag about, but it would be in a sense, correct.
When the bible said that all things were made by Jesus and without Him was nothing made, is both true and false, in a sense.
Why do I say that? Because, as far as I know or at least understand, Jesus Himself did not create anything nor heal anyone.
That's Blasphemy!!!!!
Before you go off with the name calling and labeling, let me explain, because I am not trying to take any glory from Jesus. On the contrary, I desire to bring Him great glory.
And yes, Jesus is far more than just a man like you and me.
For now, I will give a few verses that should help clarify some of my statements, but first let me ask, who gets the glory for erecting a commercial building? The people who did the actual work, or the one in charge who oversaw and coordinated everything?
Who takes credit for winning a battle or a war? Is it the ones who did the actual fighting or the head person in charge who oversaw and coordinated things?
The truth is, the little guy doesn't get to say they did anything except for the small part they played. The one who takes credit for the finished product and gets the glory of it, is the big dog, so to speak, or the head honcho.
The same is true with Jesus creating all things and all the things He did when He walked the earth. It both was Him doing all those works and it was not He Himself doing all those works.
When the woman with the issue of blood got healed, did Jesus heal the woman or that which went out of Him, heal the woman? It was the virtue or power that went out of Him that healed the woman. And He didn't even commission it. You could say in a sense, that the woman took it from Him.
The virtue or power is not simply some force that issued out of Jesus, but a spirit or seed from His Spirit.
It is written, "Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit saith the Lord of hosts."
The force or power is a S/spirit of and from God.
The way things work is, everything comes from and out of the heart of both God and man.

Pro 4:23 Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are [flow] the issues [forces] of life.

I think we already established that the forces or power that flowed from or out of Jesus was His Spirit. His Spirit being, the Holy Ghost/Spirit. And we saw how that Spirit flows out of the heart in Proverbs. As it is with man, so it is with God. God has a Heart of flesh, which is Jesus. We also have a living being in us that is a heart of flesh like Jesus.
Within the heart is the spirit of man. Within the heart of God, Jesus, is the Spirit of God, the Holy Ghost/Spirit.
So we can conclude that it is the Spirit within God that did all the work of creating everything, but, even as the spirit of man is in the heart of man, so is the Spirit of God in the Heart of God, which is Jesus.
Jesus sends His Spirit to do what He desires through His spoken word, which is the word of God.

Mat 8:16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:

Luk 4:32 And they were astonished at his doctrine: for his word was with power.

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Without going into too much detail, Jesus is both the heart and flesh of God and His Word is both the Blood and Spirit of God.
So when Jesus said in Joh 6:53 "Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.", He was referring to His flesh, which we eat when we come to Him, and His Blood, which we drink when we believe what He said, which is His Word, and His Word is Spirit, which is the Holy Ghost/Spirit. Joh 6:35
Since Jesus is the true Bread of Life, Flesh of God, we then partake of His flesh when we come to Him and receive Him, literally, His flesh, in our hearts, and we drink His blood or living water/word when we believe the truth of His word.
And how did Jesus create the worlds?

Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Do you think the word of God has lost any of its power? Do you think the Holy Spirit has lost any power or strength?
So since we have a heart, and the forces of life flow from our hearts, which just happens to be where Jesus and the Spirit of God resides, wouldn't it stand to reason that we could do the same things Jesus did, on a smaller scale, through the same spoken word of God that is with power, when it comes from or out of our heart?
Why else would Jesus say in Joh 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
So if we pray for someone to get healed or cast out a spirit and so on, know that it is the word of God that did the work.
Comments anyone?

 

[know1]

The point of this thread was to prove that we, as children of God, who have renewed our minds with the word of God, might be partakers of Jesus' divine nature, and do the same things both He and His apostles did, through and by the promises of the word of God.
If the word of God is the power of God, and we have and keep this same said word, then we can cast out devils, heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, and raise the dead, even as Jesus did.
If the word of God is truth that is forever established in heaven, which make it law, like the law of gravity, which cannot cease to function, even for a moment, then the same truths in the promises of the word of God, cannot fail to come to pass, ever. The promises of the word of God CANNOT EVER FAIL.... EVER!!!! God guarantees it.
And in order for the word of God to work for us in a situation, that it not fail, we must first have His word hid in our hearts, and second, after our hearts and minds have been renew by the word of God by believing it over a situation that is contrary to the word or promise of God, then we have to act it out as though it is already done, and it will be at that moment. Regardless of what it may be, it has to come to pass or manifest itself in the natural, because the promises of God are truth, and truth is law, and it cannot not be or come to pass, even for a moment, otherwise it would cease to be truth and law, and that can't be because it is written that in Christ there is NO LIE.
For the word of God to fail is to say it was a lie, and truth cannot be a lie, otherwise it ceases to be truth.

1Jn 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

 

[Adstar]

Who created all things in existence?
Did Jesus Himself do it? The bible says He did.
Who healed everyone when Jesus walked the earth? Did Jesus Himself do it?
Both He and the bible said He did.
What about the healings, and deliverances, and casing out of filthy spirits that take place today? Who does all that? Is it the person praying and/or speaking, or is it God/Jesus doing the work?
If you said God is the one who did all that, you would be correct. If you said Jesus is the one who did all that, again you would be correct. If you said the Holy Spirit did all that, again, you would be correct.
Could the person who did the praying/speaking say that they healed/delivered/cast out a spirit of, so and so? Would it be correct to say such a thing?
Probably not the wisest of things to brag about, but it would be in a sense, correct.
When the bible said that all things were made by Jesus and without Him was nothing made, is both true and false, in a sense.
Why do I say that? Because, as far as I know or at least understand, Jesus Himself did not create anything nor heal anyone.
That's Blasphemy!!!!!
Before you go off with the name calling and labeling, let me explain, because I am not trying to take any glory from Jesus. On the contrary, I desire to bring Him great glory.
And yes, Jesus is far more than just a man like you and me.
For now, I will give a few verses that should help clarify some of my statements, but first let me ask, who gets the glory for erecting a commercial building? The people who did the actual work, or the one in charge who oversaw and coordinated everything?
Who takes credit for winning a battle or a war? Is it the ones who did the actual fighting or the head person in charge who oversaw and coordinated things?
The truth is, the little guy doesn't get to say they did anything except for the small part they played. The one who takes credit for the finished product and gets the glory of it, is the big dog, so to speak, or the head honcho.
The same is true with Jesus creating all things and all the things He did when He walked the earth. It both was Him doing all those works and it was not He Himself doing all those works.
When the woman with the issue of blood got healed, did Jesus heal the woman or that which went out of Him, heal the woman? It was the virtue or power that went out of Him that healed the woman. And He didn't even commission it. You could say in a sense, that the woman took it from Him.
The virtue or power is not simply some force that issued out of Jesus, but a spirit or seed from His Spirit.
It is written, "Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit saith the Lord of hosts."
The force or power is a S/spirit of and from God.
The way things work is, everything comes from and out of the heart of both God and man.

Pro 4:23 Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are [flow] the issues [forces] of life.

I think we already established that the forces or power that flowed from or out of Jesus was His Spirit. His Spirit being, the Holy Ghost/Spirit. And we saw how that Spirit flows out of the heart in Proverbs. As it is with man, so it is with God. God has a Heart of flesh, which is Jesus. We also have a living being in us that is a heart of flesh like Jesus.
Within the heart is the spirit of man. Within the heart of God, Jesus, is the Spirit of God, the Holy Ghost/Spirit.
So we can conclude that it is the Spirit within God that did all the work of creating everything, but, even as the spirit of man is in the heart of man, so is the Spirit of God in the Heart of God, which is Jesus.
Jesus sends His Spirit to do what He desires through His spoken word, which is the word of God.

Mat 8:16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:

Luk 4:32 And they were astonished at his doctrine: for his word was with power.

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Without going into too much detail, Jesus is both the heart and flesh of God and His Word is both the Blood and Spirit of God.
So when Jesus said in Joh 6:53 "Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.", He was referring to His flesh, which we eat when we come to Him, and His Blood, which we drink when we believe what He said, which is His Word, and His Word is Spirit, which is the Holy Ghost/Spirit. Joh 6:35
Since Jesus is the true Bread of Life, Flesh of God, we then partake of His flesh when we come to Him and receive Him, literally, His flesh, in our hearts, and we drink His blood or living water/word when we believe the truth of His word.
And how did Jesus create the worlds?

Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Do you think the word of God has lost any of its power? Do you think the Holy Spirit has lost any power or strength?
So since we have a heart, and the forces of life flow from our hearts, which just happens to be where Jesus and the Spirit of God resides, wouldn't it stand to reason that we could do the same things Jesus did, on a smaller scale, through the same spoken word of God that is with power, when it comes from or out of our heart?
Why else would Jesus say in Joh 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
So if we pray for someone to get healed or cast out a spirit and so on, know that it is the word of God that did the work.
Comments anyone?

Jesus was God manifested in the flesh.. We are not Gods manifested in the flesh we are humans.. We are like the little switch on the wall that gets activated to cause the light bulb to go on in the room.. But it would be very wrong to say that the power originates from the switch.. The switch plays a minor part in the transfer of power from the power grid which is supported by a massive power station system.. Just as Christians can be used as a small part in Gods power / light being delivered to another person.. But no power originates from us..

Jesus was not a man like us. Jesus was sinless and perfect. He did create the world because Jesus is God.. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one.. Just as the Father and the Spirit are one and thus the Father and the Son are one.. Jesus is LORD.

 

[dcontroversal]

It is all Jesus through us as a living sacrifice.....ALL glory to God....end of story and exactly why works will never save one man!

 

[know1]

It is all Jesus through us as a living sacrifice.....ALL glory to God....end of story and exactly why works will never save one man!

It is indeed Jesus who does the work and truly, works of the law never saved anyone. That much is true.
But, as I and some others have been stating, we are not trying to save ourselves through works of the law, as works of faith have nothing to do with the law. And neither does it have to do with good works, as you understand it. It does however have everything to do with faith though.
We keep telling you people that it's not good works or works of the law, it's works of faith, and until you understand what it actually is, I suppose you will continue to say we're trying to save ourselves through works.
Kind of like my children, when they were toddlers, telling me that I'm having sex wrong with my wife. That I'm not doing it right.
Yeah, I had a laugh over that one too.
They had no understanding of what sex was or what was involved, even though we told them, as they asked, and then they were off playing again.
You who continue to see us who teach faith without corresponding works is dead, are kind of like my children when they were toddlers. The had not concept of what we were talking about, and then to tell me I was doing it wrong, is almost humorous.
It would be nice though if you and the others could understand what some of us have been saying about works of faith. Not necessarily to agree with us, but just to understand.
Thus far we have had zero success in that department.

 

[fredoheaven]

It is indeed Jesus who does the work and truly, works of the law never saved anyone. That much is true.
But, as I and some others have been stating, we are not trying to save ourselves through works of the law, as works of faith have nothing to do with the law. And neither does it have to do with good works, as you understand it. It does however have everything to do with faith though.
We keep telling you people that it's not good works or works of the law, it's works of faith, and until you understand what it actually is, I suppose you will continue to say we're trying to save ourselves through works.
Kind of like my children, when they were toddlers, telling me that I'm having sex wrong with my wife. That I'm not doing it right.
Yeah, I had a laugh over that one too.
They had no understanding of what sex was or what was involved, even though we told them, as they asked, and then they were off playing again.
You who continue to see us who teach faith without corresponding works is dead, are kind of like my children when they were toddlers. The had not concept of what we were talking about, and then to tell me I was doing it wrong, is almost humorous.
It would be nice though if you and the others could understand what some of us have been saying about works of faith. Not necessarily to agree with us, but just to understand.
Thus far we have had zero success in that department.

Maybe it will be rightfully need to define what is that 'work of faith'?

Thanks

 

[know1]

Jesus was God manifested in the flesh.. We are not Gods manifested in the flesh we are humans.. We are like the little switch on the wall that gets activated to cause the light bulb to go on in the room.. But it would be very wrong to say that the power originates from the switch.. The switch plays a minor part in the transfer of power from the power grid which is supported by a massive power station system.. Just as Christians can be used as a small part in Gods power / light being delivered to another person.. But no power originates from us..

Jesus was not a man like us. Jesus was sinless and perfect. He did create the world because Jesus is God.. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one.. Just as the Father and the Spirit are one and thus the Father and the Son are one.. Jesus is LORD.

Jesus quoted the old testament saying;


Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

So if Jesus says we are gods like they were in the old testament, then we are. And it is not blasphemous to thing so either. It might be foreign to you, but it is scriptural.
However, Jesus also stated;

Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

Though be be little gods, we still can do nothing of ourselves.
Through the name of Jesus and the knowledge of the word of God, we are made partakers of God's divine nature.
So long as we abide in Him and His word abide in us. Then nothing will be impossible to us. Because His word will produce faith, and that faith will eventually bear fruit.
And the neat thing about all that is that both the word of God and faith are subject to the sender or initiator.
So long as we meet the conditions the word of God stipulates, it will be done.
Perhaps you didn't understand what I said. I never said that we are the power, but the word of God in us is. The word of God is Jesus, and Jesus is the power of God that is in us. Again, we can do nothing of ourselves. I cannot heal anyone. But the Jesus in me can and will, when I release the word of God through spoken words of faith.
And in many cases, we are the ones who direct that power.
Sometimes God will tell us, and other times we might have compassion on someone and pray for God to heal them. Either way, we are not the ones doing the work, Jesus is through the word of faith.
Yes, Jesus and the Spirit of God are one, even as God the Father and Jesus are one. They three are one as we man being three is one.
Unbeknownst to you, we are at least a triune being as God is. Only we might be made up of four at this time. That, I'm not quite sure of. But we certainly have three thinking beings in us, like God. Only we can't knowingly separate our other beings like God does. We are made in His image. Therefore we are made like Him.
And AMEN to Jesus being not only my Lord, but my Savior, my Redeemer, my Healer, my Deliverer, my Shield and fortress, my rock upon which I stand, my Master, my King, and my God.

 

[know1]

Maybe it will be rightfully need to define what is that 'work of faith'?

Thanks

I would be happy to, and thank you for asking.
I will try to keep it as concise as I can, to keep it short.
As I have already proven, through Jesus' statements, that speaking the word of God in faith, is a work of faith in itself.
So speaking in faith, is a work of faith.
Jesus did it all the time, when He healed someone or cast out a spirit with His word.
Jesus called these acts, works. Many times he just spoke the word, and the word He spoke, would manifest itself.
A good work is like going to church, giving to the poor, preaching the gospel to others, and so on. These kind of works an unbeliever or wolf in sheep's clothing could do. Works such as these do not move the hand of God, neither is it required to get results. You have money, and you give some of the money you have to the poor or to a church. Any devil worshiper who has money could do that.
But you cannot save yourself or anyone else, through your own abilities. Neither can you cast out a spirit or instantly heal someone. These kind of acts or works, have to have the move of God's hand in order for the thing you are believing for to manifest itself in the natural.
I like to use Peter's works of faith with the man at the gate Beautiful.
Did Peter heal the man with His own power? Certainly not.
Did Peter have to have faith for the man to receive his healing? Yes.
So Peter had faith but what did he do to get his faith to work on man's behalf?
How did he release his faith?
He released His faith in God to heal the man by acting on what he believed.
If Peter simply believed that God would heal the man, but did nothing with it, God would not have healed him.
So Peter's faith has to be released and DIRECTED, like pointing a gun in a certain direction.
Peter released and directed his faith through speaking what he believed in his heart.
Also, it wasn't God who was the initiator of the healing, but Peter. God simply did what Peter told the man what was going to happen. That being, to get up and walk.
Did Peter ask God to heal the man? No.
He commanded the man to walk. Right?
But He didn't stop there, did he?
Peter did another work of faith.
He reached down and grabbed the man's hand and pulled him to his feet.
And at that moment of Peter's work of faith, God healed the man's feet and ankle bones, and gave them strength.
Was Peter trying to save Himself because of his corresponding works of faith.
Peter's works corresponded to his faith.
If Peter did no work, or act in any way, but simply believed God would cause the man to get up and walk, absolutely nothing would have happened, because Peter's faith without his corresponding works, would have been dead, useless, without effect, and so on.
And so BECAUSE OF Peter's actions or works of faith, through speaking and reaching down and grabbing the man's right hand, God moved, and healed the man.
We cannot do these kind of things because it is not within our power in an of ourselves, but we do if we abide in Jesus and His word abides in us.
Why do I say that?
First, because it's written, and second, it's because is not us that does the work of healing. IT IS THE WORD OF FAITH OR THE WORD OF GOD THAT DOES THE ACTUAL WORK.
Remember, the word of God says, "both death and life IS IN THE POWER OF THE TONGUE AND ... SHALL EAT THE FRUIT THEREOF."
It doesn't say death and life is in the power of the thoughts, or intents, or through believing (which requires not action), or anything else that you don't have to do something physically.
You have to physically move you tongue, mouth, and lips, and/or other body parts in order for your faith to have life or power in it. Because without the physical actions or works, the faith will be useless, and nothing will happen. NOTHING!!!
As for one to be saved, all had to go through the same process.
You believe and therefore speak.

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

The word of faith spoken IS the work done in faith.
Do you at least understand what works of faith are yet?
If we, who teach works without faith is dead, are trying to get or stay saved through our works, then what was Peter trying to do, for we who believe in works with faith, do the same.