ISLAM and MUSLIMS
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You guys keep telling me this thread is filled with hate, and when I ask you where the hate is, you tell me to "go and find it".
Ive spent alot of time going out and finding verses and sources for my points, and when I ask you for them, you tell me "go and find them".
There isnt really an argument here, you just keep telling everyone reading this thread to stop hating, with no actual proof that anyone here is preaching hate. You just continually call showing what Islam teaches hate.
Ill go and look at post 486, since its the closest Ive been given to any proof. But I dont see why no one else can go themselves and get them for me, if all these hateful posts really exist.
And btw Im not even arguing for Magentas sake, I do so because theres too many Christians who mix "love your neighbors" with "always be friendly and smile". I believe it is loving to share these things, so that others stay away or come out of Islam.
Ive spent alot of time going out and finding verses and sources for my points, and when I ask you for them, you tell me "go and find them".
There isnt really an argument here, you just keep telling everyone reading this thread to stop hating, with no actual proof that anyone here is preaching hate. You just continually call showing what Islam teaches hate.
Ill go and look at post 486, since its the closest Ive been given to any proof. But I dont see why no one else can go themselves and get them for me, if all these hateful posts really exist.
And btw Im not even arguing for Magentas sake, I do so because theres too many Christians who mix "love your neighbors" with "always be friendly and smile". I believe it is loving to share these things, so that others stay away or come out of Islam.
486^
This is clearly about another issue between two other members of the site, and not about the topic at all.
There is a clear personal issue between some members here that are unresolved that have found their way onto the thread. They have nothing to do with the topic, and the responses to each other are directly aimed at each other and are not meant to add anything to to actual topic.
I do not take these posts seriously as I am not involved in any feuds here. (other than a disagreement with people who continually claim that exposing evil is evil)
This is clearly about another issue between two other members of the site, and not about the topic at all.
There is a clear personal issue between some members here that are unresolved that have found their way onto the thread. They have nothing to do with the topic, and the responses to each other are directly aimed at each other and are not meant to add anything to to actual topic.
I do not take these posts seriously as I am not involved in any feuds here. (other than a disagreement with people who continually claim that exposing evil is evil)
Yes, the issue keeps getting resurrected by a couple of men who repeatedly attacked both Blue and I on another thread that involved a supposed female virgin asking for PMs from men. Both of them came to this thread to further falsely accuse me, and I asked Blue if they were following her around also.
No they are not meant to spread fear,, anger or hate. Those videos are real and most people are like many of us here were....clueless about what Islam is about. I'm not sure how you and others have gotten the message of anyone hating people here. It's the things people are doing in the name of Islam. It's not just about wearing a head dress or not letting your daughter marry an infidel. It's much worse than any civilized people know. That is what those videos are about.
As we go forward in our world, and come across people at work and on the news and people using words in the accusations of racist and Islamophobia we need to know what is going on. You guys who are talking hate are very confusing.
This is really the question, isn't it? How is it even possible for Muslims to convert? How can we witness to them, believing what they believe? Why would we want to lead these people to Christ who are so deluded?
First, we are not God! The Holy Spirit is the one who changes hearts and lives. If I saw any evidence in this "clique" of trusting God, instead of abusive videos about Islam, that people truly believed God was in control, and that God wanted to save these people, I would stop and desist posting on this horrible, fear mongering thread. (There is just no other way to say it!) Some people are so worked up, you can't even reason with them. And they just put people on ignore, when they don't like it. Talk about censoring free speech! It makes the liberals look open minded. But I digress!
God is in control! Jesus wants to save the people he died for. We really barely even need to know anything about Islam. True, our knowledge of Islam could be a starting point. But if it is not done with love, it will bear no fruit. God's love, please understand me!
But it is an honest question - "How do we lead Muslims to Christ?" When I took World Religions, we went to a mosque. They brought out their welcoming committee, who tried to win us to Islam. I think they underestimated the knowledge we had of both Islam and the gospel. One recent convert, the son of the former moderator of the United Church of Canada, ran out of the room crying, when some of the men talked to him about Jesus. One man with a heart to win Muslims, engaged the Imam, and he started exchanging emails with him. At the time, I thought - "tough sell" but Imams have found Christ before!
So, I just looked in my library and here are some of the MANY books on how to win Muslims to Christ! Ed: Evelyn A. Resiacher.
1. Toward Respectful Understanding and Witness Among Muslims: Essays in Honour of J. Dudley Woodbury.
2. Through the eyes of Christ: How to Lead Muslims into the Kingdom of God, Harry Morin and Nikki Arana.
3. Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus: A Devout Muslim Encounters Christianity, Nabeel Qureshi with Foreward by Lee Strobel.
4. The Gospel for Muslims: An Encouragement to Share Christ with Confidence, Thabiti Anyabwile.
Any of these will do! If you just want a testimony read #3. It is so similar to the link I am going to end this post with. If you want strategies, one of the other books will do. #1 is more scholarly, and it is a series of essays by different people, so not as cohesive for a start in learning how to share Christ with Muslims.
All of these books agree, we do need to understand and be able to discuss Muslim theology. Again, it is not wrong to post what the Qur'an says, but not if the only purpose is to bash evil Muslims and Mohammed. I agree Mohammed was no prophet of God, and he was a violent predator, who created a violent religion. But pointing this out to Muslims is only going to firmly shut the door to share who Jesus really is, not just for you, but for anyone who might try and share the gospel. These are the things we tell them after they are truly saved. Witnessing is about sharing Jesus, not ripping their faith apart, until they understand the truth!
Number 1 has the word "respectful" in it. I think that has to be foremost in our minds. Even Paul on Mars Hill in Acts 17 started with the altar to an unknown God, and then wove the story of who that God is, into the narrative. He preached Christ in the synagogues, and when they rejected him, in many cases, he preached Christ to the pagans.
Get it? Preach Christ and be respectful. For us personally, being a friend, being open to talk with them, without judgment or condemnation, regardless of how bad Islam is, is the key to winning people to Christ.
So, trust the Holy Spirit. There is no other way to witness to anyone! Pray for them to be saved! There is no other way to win anyone to Christ! Be open to being a friend! They want to see the love of Christ, not this unbridled hatred exhibited in this forum in this thread.
Here is the reposting of that excellent short video I posted earlier, which no one watched! (Please correct me if I am wrong, and someone did watch it!) It basically parallels what is said in book 3 above. It is the testimony of someone who was won to Christ, by the caring and loving witness of a friend, and the power of the Holy Spirit to change lives.
[video]https://youtu.be/mJzsLmahiIw[/video]
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Yes,in the Lord there is no difference,for according to the flesh there are classes of power,and authority,and privilege,but in the Lord there is not for all are equal,for the flesh will be put off,and the glorified body has no class of power,authority,or privilege,and among those born of women there has not been a greater than John the Baptist,but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than him.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Yes,in the Lord there is no difference,for according to the flesh there are classes of power,and authority,and privilege,but in the Lord there is not for all are equal,for the flesh will be put off,and the glorified body has no class of power,authority,or privilege,and among those born of women there has not been a greater than John the Baptist,but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than him.
OK, back up the truck, Angela. Here is my original quote, where I DID NOT SAY that I'm glad that Magenta gave me the link to this thread. I also never said I was going to set people straight. So what you have said here is completely false. I was being talked about, as was Magenta, and she wanted me to know. That's all. 
Also, I'm NOT a part of any clique, nor do I attack people. I was defending myself, and others here were attacking both myself and Magenta. If you think I'm gonna lay down and take it, you're 1000% wrong. The content of the attack is on another thread by a user who left, but had requested men to PM her, which was just a front for what she REALLY wanted.. It had nothing to do with THIS thread at all but got brought onto here by another member.
Also, I'm NOT a part of any clique, nor do I attack people. I was defending myself, and others here were attacking both myself and Magenta. If you think I'm gonna lay down and take it, you're 1000% wrong. The content of the attack is on another thread by a user who left, but had requested men to PM her, which was just a front for what she REALLY wanted.. It had nothing to do with THIS thread at all but got brought onto here by another member.
Post #486 by Blue!
So, you are saying that Magenta posted publicly to Blue that she should see this thread? If you post where this happened, I will confess my error.
There are two choices:
1. Magenta publicly posted this to Blue
2. It was contained in a pm or email.
So which one? If public, give me the post and thread, and I will apologize for my error. If you cannot do this, then, I rest my case. Private messaging to get her on the hate band wagon here. Although it seems to me that maybe even Blue finds things a bit too fearful? Unless it is about those of us who just want to talk about the important issue of witnessing to Muslims, which people have convinced her (or maybe she discovered it all on her own?) that in fact, people who want to show love, be respectful and share the gospel are the hate mongerers? Strange! There are none so blind sat those who will not see!
I will also believe that Magenta and Blue are colluding on this thread, including lying about this issue, unless the very public post that Magenta posted elsewhere is posted on this thread!
It really is sad, I considered Blue and Magenta to be my friends before this. So not only is it disrespectful of Muslim people, but it is also divisive and has destroyed friendships here in the BDF. Very, very sad!
So, you are saying that Magenta posted publicly to Blue that she should see this thread? If you post where this happened, I will confess my error.
There are two choices:
1. Magenta publicly posted this to Blue
2. It was contained in a pm or email.
So which one? If public, give me the post and thread, and I will apologize for my error. If you cannot do this, then, I rest my case. Private messaging to get her on the hate band wagon here. Although it seems to me that maybe even Blue finds things a bit too fearful? Unless it is about those of us who just want to talk about the important issue of witnessing to Muslims, which people have convinced her (or maybe she discovered it all on her own?) that in fact, people who want to show love, be respectful and share the gospel are the hate mongerers? Strange! There are none so blind sat those who will not see!
I will also believe that Magenta and Blue are colluding on this thread, including lying about this issue, unless the very public post that Magenta posted elsewhere is posted on this thread!
It really is sad, I considered Blue and Magenta to be my friends before this. So not only is it disrespectful of Muslim people, but it is also divisive and has destroyed friendships here in the BDF. Very, very sad!
Did not read this whole post of yours Angela. just the beginning. I came here to be educated about Islam and to see what others here were sharing about it. I was shocked back in Nov.2016 when I first found out what has been in my country (America) for so long without my knowledge or the knowledge of most people I know. I didn't come here to learn how to evangelize.
When I witness to anyone it's on the basis of the Holy Spirit doing the saving and Christians being the ones who give out the Word. But my goal coming here on Magenta's thread was to hear about what others knew about Islam and Muslims and if I could learn more and if I could share things that I had found out too. Most of America is un aware of this about Islam.
If you don't want to know more about Islam why are you coming to this thread? It's about what Islam teaches and none of it is untrue. Sort of like learning about the GREEK!!!! It's information to take away with you when you hear Islam is coming into your area. When you see people dressed in black masks and preaching about peace while they break windows and go after people who are walking down the street.
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Muslims do already believe in God. I dont believe its really God, I think its a perversion and mockery of God, but they do believe in the God of Abraham. So I dont believe that seeing devout Christians would have any affect on their faith, just as their faith would certainly have no affect on mine.
I admit that I did not watch every video posted here, and Ive only seen one that I thought was unnecessary (for the record it wasnt from Magenta, Im not saying that to take sides, Im only doing so because all the accusations have been thrown at her). I know some of the videos shes posted though. And I have a few problems with calling them hateful.
One, exposing Islam as evil and satanic is not hateful. I believe its our duty as Christians to do so. Jesus never once said "respect all ideology and beliefs".
Also, they are educational, and they teach others about Islam. This is a Christian forum, we are discussing how to minister to Islam. I do not believe that learning what Islam teaches for this purpose is evil or hateful.
I have agreed that the thread has went off topic. But I dont see proof of hate.
BUT, if you have proof, please share so I can acknowledge that Im wrong. I cannot see that Im wrong if you cannot show me that I am.
(Also, I agree that the Holy Spirit leads people to Christ, but I also know that God can use people to reach others to come to Him)
I agree. Ive even "liked" posts that have said this on the thread.
I never said that it shouldnt be done out of love.
I love Nabeel : p
I agree that just showing memes that show how Muhammad was awful to a Muslim probly wont help him come to Christ. But this is also just Christians talking amongst each other about how to minister to Muslims. And while the pictures are clearly meant to put down Muhammad, I dont think its wrong to talk about how Muhammad was not a good person.
I mean, the big thing that keeps Muslims from coming to Christ is Muhammads teachings. If they have strong faith in Muhammad, they will tell you the Bible is corrupt and you cant believe it because they need someting to hold onto for their faith in Him. So whats your next move? I dont believe being their friend is alone enough to guide them to Christ. When I was in my old life, my Christian friend talked to me about how it was wrong, and when I needed that info it was there for me.
I dont think its wrong to help a Muslim see how Muhammad was a false prophet,
Respectful is a good thing. But people also respond to a stern speaker who has confidence. Many people listen to debates, and those debating usually arent acting like friends : p And this is often positive for many people. Seeing someone with confidence in their cause can help others feel comfortable with listening to the message.
Im not saying lets call Muhammad a big stupid doo doo head : p But its absolutely okay to say "Muhammad was not a good man, and heres why". Imo
Judgement against Muslims? No. But telling them Muhammad was not a prophet of God, and that Jesus is the Son of God. I definitely will say that. I dont think you can minister to them without telling them that Muhammad was a false prophet. Both Jesus and Muhammad cannot be right.
I admit that I did not watch every video posted here, and Ive only seen one that I thought was unnecessary (for the record it wasnt from Magenta, Im not saying that to take sides, Im only doing so because all the accusations have been thrown at her). I know some of the videos shes posted though. And I have a few problems with calling them hateful.
One, exposing Islam as evil and satanic is not hateful. I believe its our duty as Christians to do so. Jesus never once said "respect all ideology and beliefs".
Also, they are educational, and they teach others about Islam. This is a Christian forum, we are discussing how to minister to Islam. I do not believe that learning what Islam teaches for this purpose is evil or hateful.
I have agreed that the thread has went off topic. But I dont see proof of hate.
BUT, if you have proof, please share so I can acknowledge that Im wrong. I cannot see that Im wrong if you cannot show me that I am.
(Also, I agree that the Holy Spirit leads people to Christ, but I also know that God can use people to reach others to come to Him)
I agree. Ive even "liked" posts that have said this on the thread.
I never said that it shouldnt be done out of love.
I love Nabeel : p
I agree that just showing memes that show how Muhammad was awful to a Muslim probly wont help him come to Christ. But this is also just Christians talking amongst each other about how to minister to Muslims. And while the pictures are clearly meant to put down Muhammad, I dont think its wrong to talk about how Muhammad was not a good person.
I mean, the big thing that keeps Muslims from coming to Christ is Muhammads teachings. If they have strong faith in Muhammad, they will tell you the Bible is corrupt and you cant believe it because they need someting to hold onto for their faith in Him. So whats your next move? I dont believe being their friend is alone enough to guide them to Christ. When I was in my old life, my Christian friend talked to me about how it was wrong, and when I needed that info it was there for me.
I dont think its wrong to help a Muslim see how Muhammad was a false prophet,
Respectful is a good thing. But people also respond to a stern speaker who has confidence. Many people listen to debates, and those debating usually arent acting like friends : p And this is often positive for many people. Seeing someone with confidence in their cause can help others feel comfortable with listening to the message.
Im not saying lets call Muhammad a big stupid doo doo head : p But its absolutely okay to say "Muhammad was not a good man, and heres why". Imo
Judgement against Muslims? No. But telling them Muhammad was not a prophet of God, and that Jesus is the Son of God. I definitely will say that. I dont think you can minister to them without telling them that Muhammad was a false prophet. Both Jesus and Muhammad cannot be right.
I'm glad Magenta directed me to this thread. Or I'd never have known that someone who so staunchly defends God and His commands, was gossiping about me, you, and M.. The attitude and mind set of people on this stupid thread, just blows me away.. FYI, gossiping is a SIN, so SHUT UP..
486^
This is clearly about another issue between two other members of the site, and not about the topic at all.
There is a clear personal issue between some members here that are unresolved that have found their way onto the thread. They have nothing to do with the topic, and the responses to each other are directly aimed at each other and are not meant to add anything to to actual topic.
I do not take these posts seriously as I am not involved in any feuds here. (other than a disagreement with people who continually claim that exposing evil is evil)
Now, Blue probably would have found the thread on her own, I have no doubt! But, just the idea that Magenta, the leader on this thread of hate mongering would be recruiting people to support her, really stinks of collusion. I do not believe I have ever sent a pm, or even posted publicly, if that is the case, for someone to come and support me on a thread that was a sinking ship.
I had no feud with either Blue or Magenta before this thread. I considered them my friends! I guess I won't be so trusting and open in the future. Being attacked and ganged up on is the definition of bullying! Bullying doesn't worry me at all! Fortunately, since it doesn't bother me, because I have God on my side! God is not the author of fear or confusion!
"since God is not a God of disorder but of peace." 1 Cor. 14:33a
"For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind." 2 Tim. 1:7
Angela, I really don't understand your anger in this post. I haven't said anything good or bad about Muslims, or you or anyone else. Magenta left a post on the SYM thread telling me that we were being being talked about and attacked on this thread.
Once again, your assumptions are false. Magenta did NOT PM any link to this thread. She posted it for all to see on the SYM thread. I'm not in any collusion with Magenta, I don't even know what that word means.. lol
Not that it's anyone's business, but I rarely get PM's from Magenta.. And I decide what I do. No one has conspired to get me on the hate bandwagon here. I'm all for bringing Muslims to Jesus. I just don't see how that's even feasibly possible.
Believe what you want, but it hurts me deeply for YOU to be attacking me like this, when I haven't done ANYTHING to warrant it.. I also have no clue what "issue" you think M and I are lying about. If it's about Islam or Muslims, I came on here today for the first time on page 25, and have not said one word about either Muslims, Islam, or hating or loving them.. Your attitude here truly baffles me..
Once again, your assumptions are false. Magenta did NOT PM any link to this thread. She posted it for all to see on the SYM thread. I'm not in any collusion with Magenta, I don't even know what that word means.. lol
Not that it's anyone's business, but I rarely get PM's from Magenta.. And I decide what I do. No one has conspired to get me on the hate bandwagon here. I'm all for bringing Muslims to Jesus.
I just don't see how that's even feasibly possible.Believe what you want, but it hurts me deeply for YOU to be attacking me like this, when I haven't done ANYTHING to warrant it..
I also have no clue what "issue" you think M and I are lying about. If it's about Islam or Muslims, I came on here today for the first time on page 25, and have not said one word about either Muslims, Islam, or hating or loving them.. Your attitude here truly baffles me..
Once again, I am baffled and shocked. If you're going to accuse me of ganging up on you, and/ or attacking you, please show me the posts where I did.. Magenta did NOT come to me at all, in hopes that I would back her on here. She wanted me to see what was being said about ME on here.. There shouldn't be any battle at all between people on here. Magenta was not trying to "recruit" me. I follow my own path, not other's paths here. I hate confrontation, I really do and I'm extremely uncomfortable right now with being on the receiving end of it for no reason. Magenta doesn't need me to fight her battles, she does just fine on her own.. I don't see where and why you consider this to be a feud. I'm totally confused, I really am.
I don't see where and why you consider this to be a feud. I'm totally confused, I really am.