ISLAM and MUSLIMS

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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#81
In summary Islamic nations and Muslim communities in Western countries do have a problem that needs to be tackled objectively, honestly and fairly, but thus far the narrative has been mostly hijacked by ignorant bigoted radicals on both sides and delusional liberals who are terrified of offending everyone. I am not really that hopeful of any improvement, if anything our world has been regressive in the worst ways in recent years, but I felt compelled to share the truth that my experiences have taught me. I hope it informs some of you at least.
How many rapes and murders by Muslim men are acceptable to you? Do you also agree with the Muslim practice of marrying young girls to aged men? Mohammed married Aisha when she was six, though he showed great restraint, I suppose, in your view, by waiting for three years before copulating with her when she was nine, even if he most likely masturbated on her during those three years. Is this an acceptable practice to you as well?

[video=youtube;zm7Yv_ZEL8M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm7Yv_ZEL8M[/video]
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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794
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#82
[video=youtube;x0MLQqtBE3I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0MLQqtBE3I[/video]

Is this Africa? Is this Pakistan? No dear, this is England.
 
H

Hao

Guest
#83
How many rapes and murders by Muslim men are acceptable to you? Do you also agree with the Muslim practice of marrying young girls to aged men? Mohammed married Aisha when she was six, though he showed great restraint, I suppose, in your view, by waiting for three years before copulating with her when she was nine, even if he most likely masturbated on her during those three years. Is this an acceptable practice to you as well?

[video=youtube;zm7Yv_ZEL8M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm7Yv_ZEL8M[/video]
You have filled your world with hate, and ironically you view the world through pretty much the same lens as Islamic radicals, just wearing a different hat.

If you seek out extremist sources of information from only one perspective, then of course you will only see what you want to see. That's the worst thing about freedom of information on the internet. There is no quality control and people are free to choose to see only what reinforces their existing prejudice.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,195
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#84
This is all well and good, however, the fact that you ARE NOT a Christian, and that you chose to go through the process to seek out this Site on the Internet, and jump through all the hoops to join this Site......which, BTW.......IS A CHRISTIAN SITE, kinda negates whatever insights/qualifications you wanna crow about.

Given that you desire for us to admire your intellect, yet you are not even intellectually mature enough to realize the importance of God, Christ, and becoming a disciple of Christ.........kinda.......well.........kinda leaves folks wondering.....

In my opinion, people who deny God/Christ have an intellect JUST ABOVE that of an empty Coke bottle

Soooooooooooo

I'm sure there are a plethora of Sites on the Internet where you would fit right in, so why exactly are you here? Certainly you can not believe you will influence others to accept your world views?

I was going to ignore this thread because my views are going to be unpopular here, and I had made a decision to be less argumentative... but this thread is filled with so much ignorance and prejudice, it would be dishonest of me to ignore. This thread is a great example of why I have a great deal of difficulty accepting any organised religion, and if it represents the mainstream attitude of the Christians here, then perhaps this is not the community for me after all.

I currently live in one of those supposedly Muslim-dominated cities in England (Birmingham), and in the past I have even lived in a poor neighborhood where South Asians (mostly Indians and those of Pakistani origin) made up perhaps ~50% of the local population. Here are the real facts, from somebody who "has no dog in the fight" and has met people from all sorts of backgrounds thanks to the very varied journey life has taken me on thus far.*


  1. Question: Are there "no go zones" in Birmingham, England? This is a large city where 20%-25% of the people are Muslims, mostly of Pakistani origin, and it's very often taken by the far right as an example of "Muslim takeover of Europe".
    1. Answer: Kind of. But not because parts of the city are governed by Shariah Law, and as a non-Muslim, I'd be attacked on sight. Parts of the city feel unsafe because there are poor and deprived neighborhoods where the people are ignorant, unemployed, uneducated, miserable and angry. It has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with socio-economics. In fact I am far more concerned about being attacked by gangs of white or black youths than Muslim youths. Many Muslims feel like outsiders in England, and frankly have less confidence to disregard the law like disenfranchised native people, often called the Underclass or NEETs (Not in Education, Employment or Training).
  2. Question: Most terrorists are Muslims, so Islam must be a violent religion, right?
    1. Answer: No. Muslims are human beings just like everyone else. Among every population there are good and bad people, and having met people of so many different backgrounds, I know for sure that we have far more in common than that which divide us. So why Muslim terrorists? Well the Christian West has been dominant in the world for ~400 years, whilst the Islamic world never recovered from the Fall of Baghdad to the Mongols in 1258, and since the decline of the Ottoman Empire, there has been no prominent Islamic nation in the world. If the USA has a problem with a country, the US military invades that country and forces it to comply with US national interests. (And the list of countries the USA has invaded since WW2 is quite impressive). In contrast, what can an angry Palestinian do about his perceived injustices? There is no Palestinian national army he can join to fight for his peoples' interests. Desperation, centuries of humiliation and perceived injustice, leads to radicalization and desperate tactics. In WW2, China fought on the side of the Allies against Fascist Japan. China was also heavily outgunned by a technologically far superior Japanese Imperial Army, there many tales of Chinese soldiers launching suicide attacks against the Japanese. Are those soldiers terrorists?
  3. Question: You're a multiculturalism liberal aren't you?
    1. Answer: No, absolutely not. I am instinctively conservative, and even as an immigrant myself, I fundamentally disagree with the liberal idea that multiculturalism is inherently good and "enriches" society. I believe traditional values and national identities are worth preserving because they have inherent value. England should remain mostly English, China should remain mostly Chinese and Turkey should remain mostly Turkish. It is not racist to oppose excessive immigration that will change what it means to be English, Chinese or Turkish. Do I wish Birmingham had more native white English people and less ethnic minorities? Yes I do, Birmingham is an English city. BUT if your rationale for wanting that is because you feel that one ethnic group is somehow superior to another, then yes you are a bigot and a racist.
  4. Question: Does the Muslim community have a problem with radicalization and integration in Europe?
    1. Answer: Yes they do. The liberals prefer to pretend everyone is one big happy family if we all just talk to each other, but that's not the reality on the ground. The fact is that due to the horrors of Fascism ruining much of Europe in WW2, most of Western Europe adopted a very negative attitude to nationalism of any kind. There is no civics or patriotic education in most Western European countries. As somebody who experienced Chinese nationalist indoctrination in the first three years of education in China, I can safely say that "I love Britain more than most British people", because China gave me the basis for an understanding of the importance of nation and society, which ironically my native British friends would have balked at as "propaganda". The result is that unlike the USA, which was founded on immigration and is actually very successful at integrating immigrants, Western Europe has struggled to integrate its immigrant populations. Of course I am generalizing here, but there is a clear difference between the level of integration of immigrant populations in the USA and Western Europe.

In summary Islamic nations and Muslim communities in Western countries do have a problem that needs to be tackled objectively, honestly and fairly, but thus far the narrative has been mostly hijacked by ignorant bigoted radicals on both sides and delusional liberals who are terrified of offending everyone. I am not really that hopeful of any improvement, if anything our world has been regressive in the worst ways in recent years, but I felt compelled to share the truth that my experiences have taught me. I hope it informs some of you at least.

Sincerely,
Hao

*My relevant background: I was born in China and came to England with my parents when I was 8 years old. I actually attended a Jewish primary school for 3 years when I first got here. The school taught Hebrew and Jewish faith in addition to the standard English curriculum, but it accepted children of different backgrounds, including Atheists, Christians and Muslims. In my life thus far I have been friends with native British people, some of whom were Christian, I have been friends with Sunni Muslims from a Pakistani origin, and a Shia Muslim from Iraq, I have been friends with Chinese immigrants like me, some more integrated into British culture than me, some less integrated than me, and at university I met people from pretty much everywhere around the world. Among every group of people there are amazingly kind, generous and positive individuals, and angry, selfish and negative individuals. There is far more difference within a given demographic group than between different groups as a whole. I can say that with absolute confidence because I have lived my entire life between worlds, between groups, and it constantly amazes me how much common humanity there is between us all.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#85
Why do Muslims not immigrate to other Muslim countries?

[video=youtube;IOz9L6LYODc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOz9L6LYODc[/video]
 
H

Hao

Guest
#86
[video=youtube;x0MLQqtBE3I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0MLQqtBE3I[/video]

Is this Africa? Is this Pakistan? No dear, this is England.
What does that prove exactly? I already know that there are a lot of South Asians in England, I wish there were less but they are already here - a legacy of the British Empire and a policy of mass immigration in the 1950s to make up for desperate postwar labour shortage in England. I also already acknowledged that as a community, Muslims do have a problem with radicalization and integration. If the very idea of Muslims in England offends you, then you are a bigot. It's that simple.

If I had an irrational hatred of Christians or native British people, I could also find plenty of videos, fake or otherwise, of white people behaving badly, whether it's football hooliganism, rape culture, drug culture, NEETs, gangs, whatever... if you choose to look for the ugliest side of any group of people, you will find it, it's the internet, but that doesn't mean any given group of people are inherently superior to another.

I am not going to waste my time arguing with fanatics. I have shared the truth I felt compelled to share. You can ignore it at your pleasure.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,865
26,031
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#87
You have filled your world with hate, and ironically you view the world through pretty much the same lens as Islamic radicals, just wearing a different hat.

If you seek out extremist sources of information from only one perspective, then of course you will only see what you want to see. That's the worst thing about freedom of information on the internet. There is no quality control and people are free to choose to see only what reinforces their existing prejudice.
You dishonestly equate telling the truth with being hateful.
You are one of those people you call delusional.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,865
26,031
113
#88
What does that prove exactly? I already know that there are a lot of South Asians in England, I wish there were less but they are already here - a legacy of the British Empire and a policy of mass immigration in the 1950s to make up for desperate postwar labour shortage in England. I also already acknowledged that as a community, Muslims do have a problem with radicalization and integration. If the very idea of Muslims in England offends you, then you are a bigot. It's that simple.

If I had an irrational hatred of Christians or native British people, I could also find plenty of videos, fake or otherwise, of white people behaving badly, whether it's football hooliganism, rape culture, drug culture, NEETs, gangs, whatever... if you choose to look for the ugliest side of any group of people, you will find it, it's the internet, but that doesn't mean any given group of people are inherently superior to another.

I am not going to waste my time arguing with fanatics. I have shared the truth I felt compelled to share. You can ignore it at your pleasure.
You act as if Islam does not explicitly promote violence. You are a deceived fanatic.
 
Mar 21, 2017
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#89
You've already failed in your message.

You people need to listen to what I'm about to say and listen good...

ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION!

Understand?

Once you've awakened to this Revelation, you are on your way to Truth.

Until then, you are ignorant, period.

[video=youtube;aFOjzOOZOuc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFOjzOOZOuc[/video]
I thought the bible was truth? So there's more to truth than the word of God? Can you please clarify? Are you Muslim?
Sometimes I just have to pray for patience. And LOTS of it. I mean, read your post. It sounds like you are saying believers in the gospel and the Lord Jesus Christ are ignorant and don't know the truth.

 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,865
26,031
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#90
I'm sure there are a plethora of Sites on the Internet where you would fit right in, so why exactly are you here? Certainly you can not believe you will influence others to accept your world views?
It seems he is here to spread his delusions, ignorance, hatred, lies, and bigotry.
 
Mar 21, 2017
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#91
What does that prove exactly? I already know that there are a lot of South Asians in England, I wish there were less but they are already here - a legacy of the British Empire and a policy of mass immigration in the 1950s to make up for desperate postwar labour shortage in England. I also already acknowledged that as a community, Muslims do have a problem with radicalization and integration. If the very idea of Muslims in England offends you, then you are a bigot. It's that simple.

If I had an irrational hatred of Christians or native British people, I could also find plenty of videos, fake or otherwise, of white people behaving badly, whether it's football hooliganism, rape culture, drug culture, NEETs, gangs, whatever... if you choose to look for the ugliest side of any group of people, you will find it, it's the internet, but that doesn't mean any given group of people are inherently superior to another.

I am not going to waste my time arguing with fanatics. I have shared the truth I felt compelled to share. You can ignore it at your pleasure.
Muslims are sneaky and dangerous.
They seek to rule the world.

WARNING: There's a Muslim coming to your neighborhood.

Soon thereafter several families will suddenly appear. Then multitudes. And before you know it, your neighborhood is now Muslim.

The Koran commands them to hate and kill non-Muslims.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#92
What does that prove exactly? I already know that there are a lot of South Asians in England, I wish there were less but they are already here - a legacy of the British Empire and a policy of mass immigration in the 1950s to make up for desperate postwar labour shortage in England. I also already acknowledged that as a community, Muslims do have a problem with radicalization and integration. If the very idea of Muslims in England offends you, then you are a bigot. It's that simple.

If I had an irrational hatred of Christians or native British people, I could also find plenty of videos, fake or otherwise, of white people behaving badly, whether it's football hooliganism, rape culture, drug culture, NEETs, gangs, whatever... if you choose to look for the ugliest side of any group of people, you will find it, it's the internet, but that doesn't mean any given group of people are inherently superior to another.

I am not going to waste my time arguing with fanatics. I have shared the truth I felt compelled to share. You can ignore it at your pleasure.
I said nothing. I just said it is from England. The rest are your ideas about my fanatism... What is fanatism? To watch the video? To say it is from your city Birmingham?
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#94
What does that prove exactly? I already know that there are a lot of South Asians in England, I wish there were less but they are already here - a legacy of the British Empire and a policy of mass immigration in the 1950s to make up for desperate postwar labour shortage in England. I also already acknowledged that as a community, Muslims do have a problem with radicalization and integration. If the very idea of Muslims in England offends you, then you are a bigot. It's that simple.

If I had an irrational hatred of Christians or native British people, I could also find plenty of videos..
I am not sure what are you saing here. In first part you admit that they have problem with radicalization and integration, in the second part you call our opinions irrational...

What is based on reality is not irrational.
 
Mar 21, 2017
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#95
What does that prove exactly? I already know that there are a lot of South Asians in England, I wish there were less but they are already here - a legacy of the British Empire and a policy of mass immigration in the 1950s to make up for desperate postwar labour shortage in England. I also already acknowledged that as a community, Muslims do have a problem with radicalization and integration. If the very idea of Muslims in England offends you, then you are a bigot. It's that simple.

If I had an irrational hatred of Christians or native British people, I could also find plenty of videos, fake or otherwise, of white people behaving badly, whether it's football hooliganism, rape culture, drug culture, NEETs, gangs, whatever... if you choose to look for the ugliest side of any group of people, you will find it, it's the internet, but that doesn't mean any given group of people are inherently superior to another.

I am not going to waste my time arguing with fanatics. I have shared the truth I felt compelled to share. You can ignore it at your pleasure.
This is fanatical:

So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them. Koran 9.5

Lie in wait? Murder them!

Muslims are commanded to kill non Muslims.
 
Last edited:

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,865
26,031
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#96
Muslims are commanded to kill non Muslims.
If you dislike Christians, or wish to overthrow their way of life, or even just to silence them, you tell them it is hateful and bigoted to tell the truth about Islam. Telling the truth about Mohammed and the bloody history and dreams of world dominance Islamists have is being prejudiced, according to liars and those who wish to deceive.
 
Mar 21, 2017
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#97
You've already failed in your message.

You people need to listen to what I'm about to say and listen good...

ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION!

Understand?

Once you've awakened to this Revelation, you are on your way to Truth.

Until then, you are ignorant, period.

[video=youtube;aFOjzOOZOuc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFOjzOOZOuc[/video]

I thought the bible was truth? So there's more to truth than the word of God? Can you please clarify? Are you Muslim?
Sometimes I just have to pray for patience. And LOTS of it. I mean, read your post. It sounds like you are saying believers in the gospel and the Lord Jesus Christ are ignorant and don't know the truth.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,780
2,943
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#98
Oh dear, what a mess this thread has become!

I thought that having a thread specifically on Islam could have been a blessing to us all. We could have learned more about Islam, I certainly did, and I apologize for my mistake on the post I did on page 1. Thanks to Dino for correcting me.

I purposely ended my last post, with how Jesus himself is taking the good news to Muslims, and how we are needed to share the gospel, when these dreams and visions open up the door. The gospel must be preached for them to be truly saved. They must know what they are saved from (sin!) and who saves them (Jesus, through the Holy Spirit) who Jesus is - God and man, and that they need to repent of their sins.

Instead of being helpful, this thread degenerated into a lot of attacks on Muslims, and a major attack on Hao, who is actually in Britain, living in a community with many Muslim immigrants. I do appreciate his insights.

As for whether what he said is true or not, because he is not a Christian - ALL TRUTH is God's truth! So if a pagan or unbeliever says something true about God, or about immigrants, it does not become untrue just because the author is not a Christian. Christians do not have the only truth, where the world is concern. But we do have the only truth where God and salvation is concerned, which is not what this thread was about!

I thought it interesting to note, that the Europeans, with the exception of Hao, seem much more terrified of Islam, than the North Americans, with maybe the exception of Magenta and a few others.

But God has not given us a spirit of fear! Paul was in jail when he wrote this, being persecuted for his faith by the mighty Roman Empire! He instructed Timothy not to live in fear, when he was going to be put to death, soon!

"for God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control.8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony about our Lord, nor of me his prisoner, but share in suffering for the gospel by the power of God," 2 Tim. 1:7-8

So why all the fear tactics?? I just don't get it! Here we have an opportunity to discuss Islam and what it is about, in order to reach these people with the gospel. I don't see how fear plays any part in that. When I was in Edmonton, we lived in a neighbourhood full of Muslims, while we were building our house. They were the main shoppers in a large grocery store. How did this affect me? Well, that store brought in the best and freshest pistachios you could imagine! I guess I gained some weight eating them, but that was the prednisone that made me crave salt, and probably my own fault!

Not to discount that people do have fears about these issues. I have met many Muslims, and never feared for my life. As for the rapes and things that are happening, is that Islam or is that culture? They do this to their own people in their own countries. So, they really have no education or understanding of what post-Christian cultural expectations are. Many of those people probably don't care about Islam or Allah, until they are actually radicalized, which sadly, can happen to anyone. Look at the guy driving the truck into the people on London Bridge. He was a lone wolf Muslim, but basically he was a disaffected Briton, who changed his name, and in his obvious mental illness, decided to win Allah's approval and maybe get some of those virgins he couldn't get in real life? (Yes, a very dangerous teaching!)

I have to wonder if there was a revival and many Britons turning to Christ if that man might have become a Christian, instead! I am sure that the UK is no different from North America, where most of us are not doing our job to reach the lost. I include myself in this.

We need to focus on God and his will, which is and has always been reaching the lost for Christ. That is the problem! God is on the move, and we are posturing and sitting back and judging Muslims, instead of being the vessels God uses to reach these people in our western nations.

I have a FB friend who was a missionary in the field for 20 years. She and her husband retired and moved back to Texas and immediately became workers among various expats and students living in their community. She comes onto FB and asks for prayers because they are showing the Jesus film, in Arabic, to Muslim couples who are coming to their home for dinner.

Are we part of the solution, or part of the problem? There really is no room for anger and malice, because every Muslim is an individual that Christ died for! Why can we not discuss the ways that Islam is the problem, and how Christ is always the answer?
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#99
no they don't believe in Jesus who is the Son of God. They have a false Jesus, like you.
the crowds that followed Jesus believed Him to be a prophet.

the Jesus i believe in said blessed are the poor, what i see today are the poorest nations on earth being destroyed.
i also remember Jesus speaking of a gate and destroyers not going through. we are close to one million dead kids in Iraq as a result of war, i can not think of a bigger destroyer.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,865
26,031
113
[video=youtube;6DsG9yQrdD4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DsG9yQrdD4[/video]