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Thread: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

  1. #21
    Senior Member royalscot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    for example
    Romans 8: Life in the Spirit
    1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.

    being set free from human s understanding , to learn from god s understanding , take many years. but learning with a direct line, with gods was god s plan all along. in christ jesus. dose not refer to what you read in christ jesus (the holy bible)

    my point , being in jesus, and using human understanding to try to explain this, is madness to a worldly understand , i am not saying do not read your bible. the top quote seem to miss this verse, yet then asks, why to i feel sinful. strange the meaning of one word. (in)
    john 10 v1
    "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber.
    cor2 v8 For we cannot do anything against the truth, but only for the truth
    8 v32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."











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    Arrow Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Issues like these are so easily solved if only One were understand that there is another way God knows us before we are born...

    Job 1:21
    "And said, Naked came I out of my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD"

    Ecclesiastes 5:15
    "As he came forth of his mother’s womb, naked shall he return to go as he came, and shall take nothing of his labour, which he may carry away in his hand"


    ^^^
    TWO Witnesses I've provided that tells a story most Christians are forbidden to talk or even think about...

    Another chance.

    However many it takes.

  3. #23
    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Base12 View Post
    Issues like these are so easily solved if only One were understand that there is another way God knows us before we are born...

    Job 1:21
    "And said, Naked came I out of my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD"

    Ecclesiastes 5:15
    "As he came forth of his mother’s womb, naked shall he return to go as he came, and shall take nothing of his labour, which he may carry away in his hand"


    ^^^
    TWO Witnesses I've provided that tells a story most Christians are forbidden to talk or even think about...

    Another chance.

    However many it takes.
    Nonsense.

    Goodness sake, those passages are referring to the fact we will take nothing material with us at death and not about a second chance. Context next time maybe?
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    Nonsense.
    Nope.

    Try addressing the bolded next time...

    Returning back to the womb.

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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Base12 View Post
    Nope.

    Try addressing the bolded next time...

    Returning back to the womb.
    What is it your saying base? I'm missing the reference.

  6. #26
    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Base12 View Post
    Nope.

    Try addressing the bolded next time...

    Returning back to the womb.
    Yep.

    More nonsense. Talk about Scripture twisting...no wonder the RCC feared people getting the Bible in their hands, you're showing exactly why.

    Please refer us all to a biblical scholar or teacher who has held to your view, with quotes.

    I did handle the text by addressing the entire text and context, something you've failed to do, and it isn't referring to returning to the womb, which, uh, no one ever does, which isn't what the texts are referring to. Try some sound doctrine and 2 Timothy 2:15.

    and naked shall I return thither; not into his mother's womb in a literal sense, which was impossible, Joh_3:4, but to the earth, and to the dust of it, Gen_3:19, pointing to it with his finger, on which he now lay; meaning that he should go to the place appointed for him, the grave, the house of all living, Job_30:23, and so the Targum here has it, to the house of the grave, where he should lie unseen, as in his mother's womb, till the resurrection morn; which would be a kind of a regeneration of him, when he should be delivered up from thence, and enjoy a state of happiness and glory: he should descend into the grave as naked as he was born, respecting not so much the nakedness of his body, as being stripped of all worldly enjoyments, see Ecc_5:15 and he says this in his present view of things; he thought once he should have died in his nest, Job_29:18, in the midst of all his prosperity, and left a large substance to his children; but now all was taken away, and for the present had no hope or expectation of a restoration, as afterwards was; but whereas he was now naked and bare of all, he expected he should continue and die so: or this is said with respect to the common case of men, who it is certain cannot carry anything out of the world with them, either riches or honour, but must leave all behind them, 1Ti_6:7 which may serve to loosen the minds of men from worldly things, not to set their eyes and hearts upon them, nor to put their trust and confidence in them; and good men may part with them, especially at death with pleasure, since they will have no further use of them, and will have a better and a more enduring substance in their stead: - John Gill

    Again: Goodness sake, those passages are referring to the fact we will take nothing material with us at death and not about a second chance. Context next time maybe?

    Try context, and have someone help you with the Bible.
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    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Sully View Post
    What is it your saying base? I'm missing the reference.
    Reincarnation is in fact Biblical.

    Christians have been duped into believing it's not.

    God calls it "The Mystery of Iniquity".

    Hell is a Parable of the Womb...

    Psalm 139:15
    "My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth"


    This is why Jesus went to 'Hell' to preach.

    He either went to give hope to the unborn or perhaps give them advice for avoiding their previous mistakes.

    So many questions can be answered if folks would just see this simple Truth.

    I don't wish to derail the thread, which is why I'm trying to be subtle.

    I will make a thread about this one day when I have more time to debate.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Ash_JFF View Post
    I have not been on this chat in 3 years but I felt heavily compelled in my heart to write this today.


    I have always struggled to make sense of the predestination verses. (Romans 8: 29-30, Matthew 11:27, Psalm 65:4, Romans 9, etc.) To make sense of it I tried to think that God chose people to be saved based of knowing the future and seeing people choosing Him, hence the “foreknowing” but now I know how flawed that way of thinking is. In regards to free will I used to think how God made the way of salvation clear and just waited for us to accept like a gift. I now know how flawed that way of thinking is as well.


    Yes, these predestination verses helped me to better understand but I still fought against it because I didn’t want to believe that God would choose some and not others. Ultimately I wanted to believe that I had a choice. How selfish and prideful I was to think that way.


    It was not a verse about predestination that opened the door to the truth but actually verses about our utter depravity of sin:
    Psalm 53:2-3
    God looks down from heaven
    on all mankind
    to see if there are any who understand,
    any who seek God.
    Everyone has turned away, all have become corrupt;
    there is no one who does good,
    not even one.



    I have read these verses before but about 1-2 years ago these verses really hit home to how sinful I really am. We always want to find some kind of good in us, some kind of tiny little ray of light (even if it’s the act of choosing God) and to show God saying, “Look, I did this! I chose You!”


    Ultimately that is pride. It is us trying to believe that we are capable of goodness outside of Christ. In reality that is not possible. Even as Christians we are filled with sin: our actions, out thoughts, even our prayers are tainted with sin. There is no escape, no explaining away, and no changing it. We are filled with sin at all times.


    In addition, because we are always filled with sin, our base nature is to reject anything that is of Christ. We were born into rebellion and live on in ultimate rebellion before becoming a Christian. It is impossible for anything in us to choose the salvation of Christ. No matter how free, wonderful, loving etc…..it is impossible. Our sin nature would never allow it. Evil would never choose its destruction which is Christ.


    That is how I finally realized that predestination makes sense. Because it is literally the ONLY way that I would ever “choose” salvation. It is the Spirit of God that has given me the desire for Jesus, and it is His Spirit that has given me the power to “choose” Him.


    Yes, at the age of eight, I remember making a conscience decision to accept His salvation through faith. I remember my fear of my sin and hell, desiring His love, of wanting a Father. I remember choosing Him. But I have come to realize that these desires for Him were not of myself but of His Spirit through me. I had no say in the matter.
    Then how do I marriage the two facts that I consciously chose Him but also knowing that it is only God that would give me the desire to chose Him to begin with?


    I don’t know. Any you know what? I am ok with that. I trust God that He knows how it works and that gives me peace. Confusion is not always a bad thing. Sometimes you just have to lay it at the feet of Jesus and say, “Lord, You know.”
    There is song that I have found by a Christian rapper named Shai Linne called “Election”. I highly recommend you give it a listen as it explains Election/Predestination quite well. I know you might have heard how free will is like someone who is floating out at sea and salvation is God throwing a rope at us and all we have to do is grab it. There is a part of this song that explains how flawed that line of thinking is:


    “Some people say that we were drowning in the ocean
    Barely floating until God threw us the rope then
    Our free will helped us as we groped
    Our faith is the hand that grabbed the rope and God put us back in the boat
    Nope! Without apology I deny that analogy
    Reality- we were dead at the bottom of the sea
    I was a swollen corpse with hope no more
    Until Jehovah the LORD dove from the shore to the ocean floor
    Yeah, I was a corpse and I smelled like it
    I’ll keep it simple, why did God choose me? Because He felt like it!
    He brought me out, not an act of my volition
    Breathed life into my lungs and didn’t ask for my permission”


    I was a corpse at the bottom of the ocean. I could not grab that rope nor would I ever want to even if I could.


    Honestly, I so glad that I had no say in my salvation. How awful would it be that God had to depend on our choice? That is like stripping power out of God’s hands and placing it in ours. Knowing how utterly sinful and disgusting I am, I am so thankful that it could only be by the grace of God that I could ever be saved. Depending on myself to accomplish any type of good is horrifying because I know that I am not capable of producing any good at all outside of Christ.


    Lord Jesus, thank You!


    I apologize for this being so long haha. It was just on my heart all morning as I was cleaning the house.
    God Predestined everyone to Heaven via the Blood of Jesus. DO YOU ACCEPT IT......That's the only question.

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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    The bible says GOD loved righteousness.Would GOD be just If some were pre-chosen to go to heaven or hell?

    If a person answers yes to that question,wouldn't they be saying that GOD Is not just?
    IF you do not realize that the rebirth took place in your spirit then it can be confusing to your mind worshiping GOD standing in front of a physical mirror.

  10. #30
    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Base12 View Post
    Reincarnation is in fact Biblical.

    Christians have been duped into believing it's not.

    God calls it "The Mystery of Iniquity".

    Hell is a Parable of the Womb...

    Psalm 139:15
    "My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth"


    This is why Jesus went to 'Hell' to preach.

    He either went to give hope to the unborn or perhaps give them advice for avoiding their previous mistakes.

    So many questions can be answered if folks would just see this simple Truth.

    I don't wish to derail the thread, which is why I'm trying to be subtle.

    I will make a thread about this one day when I have more time to debate.
    More nonsense, just wanted to capture this before it got edited or something.
    SovereignGrace likes this.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    ...not into his mother's womb in a literal sense, which was impossible...
    Thank you for proving my point.

    One often chooses to ignore the literal when the Truth is uncomfortable.

    Nice cop out.

    For extra credit you could have said... "God didn't really mean that".

    Or... "that was a mistranslation"

    Or the old... "A better translation would have been..."

    Let go of the hatred.

    God is Love.

    God is Merciful.

  12. #32
    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Base12 View Post
    Thank you for proving my point.
    Keep dreaming...

    One often chooses to ignore the literal when the Truth is uncomfortable.
    You're describing yourself.

    Nice cop out.
    Uh-huh

    For extra credit you could have said... "God didn't really mean that".

    Or... "that was a mistranslation"

    Or the old... "A better translation would have been..."
    I handled your nonsense correctly but your asinine interpretations you cannot let go.

    Let go of the hatred.
    Loving truth isn't hatred, nor is hating your false teachings hatred, but is love.

    God is Love.

    God is Merciful.
    He most certainly is, but your teaching is false.

    Now please go fetch us some others that come up with your false and absurd conclusions. Try using the context of the passages - they're not saying anything close to what you're forcing them to say.
    SovereignGrace likes this.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    More nonsense, just wanted to capture this before it got edited or something.
    See this verse?

    1 Peter 1:23
    "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever"


    God is teaching us that it's a choice...

    Option A: born again, of corruptible seed
    Option B: born again, of incorruptible seed

    I choose option B by the way.


  14. #34
    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Base12 View Post
    See this verse?

    1 Peter 1:23
    "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever"

    God is teaching us that it's a choice...
    No, no, you're teaching us that nonsense, don't go blaming that on God.

    Option A: born again, of corruptible seed
    Option B: born again, of incorruptible seed

    I choose option B by the way.

    Um, no, you're adding your absurdities to the text.

    Get some help.
    SovereignGrace likes this.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    preacher4truth...

    Learn to debate.

    Post verses to back up what you say.

    Ad hominems are an instant fail.


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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Oh well.

    I'm not going to derail this thread.

    Base12 out.
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    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Base12 View Post
    preacher4truth...

    Learn to debate.

    Post verses to back up what you say.
    No thanks, I've proven my point, you're out on a limb and on an unsustainable path.
    SovereignGrace likes this.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Base12 View Post
    Reincarnation is in fact Biblical.

    Christians have been duped into believing it's not.

    God calls it "The Mystery of Iniquity".

    Hell is a Parable of the Womb...

    Psalm 139:15
    "My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth"


    This is why Jesus went to 'Hell' to preach.

    He either went to give hope to the unborn or perhaps give them advice for avoiding their previous mistakes.

    So many questions can be answered if folks would just see this simple Truth.

    I don't wish to derail the thread, which is why I'm trying to be subtle.

    I will make a thread about this one day when I have more time to debate.
    I wouldn't debate that reincarnation is biblical if I were you, at least not in here. But how do you tie this verse into your belief: It is appointed to a man once to die...just curious how you fit it in?

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    Senior Member santuzza's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Ash_JFF View Post


    Then how do I marriage the two facts that I consciously chose Him but also knowing that it is only God that would give me the desire to chose Him to begin with?


    I don’t know. Any you know what? I am ok with that. I trust God that He knows how it works and that gives me peace. Confusion is not always a bad thing. Sometimes you just have to lay it at the feet of Jesus and say, “Lord, You know.”
    Excellent post. I feel the exact same way. When I "chose" God, I felt it was entirely my choice, but in retrospect, it is abundantly clear that He chose me. How it works, yeah, I don't know either. I had a pastor-friend explain it to me this way once. Salvation is like a door. As you approach the door, over the doorpost it reads, "Knock, and the door will be opened unto you." Once you enter, you turn around, and over the door it reads, "Chosen." It's one of those great mysteries of faith.
    "Evil is powerless when the good are unafraid." - Ronald Reagan

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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Beautiful. I use to always listen to Shai Linne years ago when I realized the same thing. What a blessed post on this Resurrection Day and Lord's Day most of all!
    "My beloved is mine, and I am his." - Song of Songs 2:16

    What is the gospel message? https://youtu.be/TXOWyjB7d24

    What is 1689 Federalism? Here are some videos and resources to introduce you to the historic position of Baptist Covenant Theology: http://www.1689federalism.com/

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